Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

isutherland · February 2002

If it was fully open then hold the button until it moves forward and stops...it's closed. If it was in the tilt position hold the button until it lowers ...it's closed. It will stop by itself fully closed either way....it appears not to be closed as it makes it's final movement but it actually is closed...if you doubt it, take a look from above.

sstrader · February 2002

Let me be sure I understand. My sun roof, when it moves from the fully open position to the fully closed position, seems to move forward and then up at the back, primarily because it moves down at the back and then moves backward to let it slide under the metal of the roof when I open it. When closing it, if I stop it in time in that upward movement, it is closed. However, sometimes I seem to maybe hold it too long and it then passes the fully closed position along the back edge and starts to open for ventilation in the back. Is it supposed to do this or should it be set so that I have to let go of the switch and then push it again to make it go up in the back to ventilation mode? The other day, driving home from work, I had this loud rush of air from somewhere. I finally figured out that the sun roof had been partially open in the back all day while it was parked and that the speed of driving made it sound like the rush of a train through the inside of the cabin. I wonder if some of the posts earlier in this forum about the tremendous noise from the air while driving have been caused by this sun roof instead of the roof racks? Hmmm!

As Vinnie Barbarino used to say, "I'm so confused!"

Steve

triumphbobk · February 2002

Our Bravada has just experienced the 'rear end drop' problem where the rear end of the truck is about 6 inches lower than it should be. I believe I've heard other people who've had the same problem with the air suspension.

I have two questions
1. Should I drive the truck to the dealer or should it be towed?
2. What is most likely at fault and what is the fix?

I'm sure they can figure out what the problem, but just in case I thought I'd ask the list. I want to be certain they get it right. Gee whiz - I wonder if this qualifies for a loaner or will they try to send me home in it until Monday!

Thanks in advance for the help.

Bob

earlc · February 2002

Thanks for the info about the weep hole for moisture in the muffler. I did not know that but it sure is a good idea.

tpellow · February 2002

malibu99 - Headlight/voltage issue is truly a voltage issue, my voltmeter only shows about 12v and then jumps to 14+v after 10+ seconds, along with this my dash lights are dimmer. It has to be cold to reproduce this so I have not had a chance to show my dealer but asked them anyway, they were not aware of this issue but are willing to investigate.

I also asked about the 45-55mph vibration and unfortunately I was unable to go on the drive with the Tech, so he was not able to reproduce. I did talk to the Tech for a while and his specialty is transmissions, he said the Torque converter stall related vibration could explain what I've noticed but that it is typical of this type of transmission as opposed to Cadillacs that have a viscous coupling system which allows some slippage and thus no vibration.

I was actually at my dealer for an oil leak that turned out to be a Power Steering Fluid leak. Unfortunately, the schematics were not available so they had to take my rack apart to get the p/n. They kept my TB LTZ overnight and gave me a TB LS to drive for the day. I have to admit that the difference between my LTZ and an LS is amazing (ride, Bose, 3.73 vs 3.42). I also have to admit that I drove this LS, HARD!!! and I'm amazed at what the TB can do with the L6. Really made me happy for choosing an LTZ.

Tim
TB LTZ

scottc454 · February 2002

Tim, it sounds like you're battery is dying.
You should turn the key to the on position without starting the vehicle. The voltmeter should say 12. If it's below that, the battery isn't fully charged.

On a less important note, I don't understand that last part of your message about the ride being diffent in a LTZ as opposed to an LS. Also, I believe you can get pretty close to everything an LTZ has in an LS.

varcabos · February 2002

Bob,

I had a similar problem with the rear end of my Envoy being very low at the end of December. When I drove it into the dealer, they immediately knew what the problem was because they had had 3 others with the same problem within the week.

To fix the problem, the air compressor was replaced. At the time, the replacement air compressor was on National Back Order so it took a few days to get the part in. Hopefully, they have one in stock for you. There was no question about me getting a loaner, they immediately offered one.

I was able to drive the Envoy to the dealer (although it was a bit bumpy), but I noticed when driving the Envoy at that angle, the headlights were blinding everyone I passed by.

Hope this helps.

Vic

isutherland · February 2002

On my TB LT, I hold the button and it closes and stops. I have to push the button a second time to get it to open in the opposite direction. If yours is going directly to the next mode then I think there is something wrong with it.

choots · February 2002

All you need is a pair of needle nose pliers and a screw driver.
It is hard to believe that anyone could install these bars wrong. Each bar is plainly marked in three different places with arrows and the word "forward" pointing in the right direction .
I am not sure, but I think the wind noise is a little less now. I have the front bar back over the little rear door window.
Carl

sstrader · February 2002

Well, this feeble brain of mine was finally able to deduce that I am the cause of my problem and not my vehicle. I went out last night to the garage and played with the controls of the sunroof. It works as you say, as it is supposed to work. Now if this feeble brain can just remember how to do it each time? Thanks for the guidance.

Steve

tpellow · February 2002

scottc454, trust me on this it is not a battery issue, battery shows 12.1v with a multimeter

As far as the LS that I drove, I wasn't clear enough. The LS I drove was a stripped down bare bones TB w/ the 16" wheels as opposed to the 17" on LTZ. Maybe its just me but I drove the same road I've driven a 1000 times and there was a noticeable difference. Don't take me wrong I'm not knocking the LS but I was not expecting there to be a noticeable difference in ride, then again since it was a rental maybe someone else did something to it.

Tim
TB LTZ

jht · February 2002

Last night, the fuel indicator mysteriously returned to normal. Still don't know why, but I won't complain about it - hopefully it won't happen again (then again, hopefully the front end won't need to be disassembled again!).

flopes · February 2002

I'm curious about any differences you noticed in the axle ratio's between your TB LTZ and the loaner. I'll be ordering a new Envoy next week ( brother-in-law's GM employee discount, Woo-Hoo!) and considering the differences in axle ratios.
Thanks for the feedback

dyates · February 2002

The headrests are one of the coolest features. So many of the new cars have headrests that block your line of sight through the rear window.

Our Triplets have a unique feature that will lower the headrests automatically when the seat is folded. Then when you place it back in normal position you can leave the headrests down. This is the way that I usually keep them since it is rare for me to carry passengers (great visibility).

If I am going to carry passengers, I simply fold them up and they lock in place.

zonk · February 2002

Thanks for the info on the headrests. That takes care of one possible problem.

cmack4 · February 2002

The headrests are just one of the many features that shows the real ingenuity of the new triplets. There's so many cool extras! I traveled to upstate New York last weekend, so it gave me a chance to test out the window defrosters... not only does it do the front and rear, plus mirrors, but also the side rear windows! The engine also comes up to operating temperature faster than any car I've ever seen!

Oh and I solved the problem with the roof rack seal flapping. There are plastic covers on the front of the rack rails. Take off the cover (flat-head screwdriver over the inner notch), torque the nut down a little more, and lok-tite it down. I just think it worked loose, since they didn't use the lok-tite. Either way, no more flapping!

tt66 · February 2002

I'll try not to hit the Enter key so fast this time!
2002 Bravada with 6500 miles. Getting 15-17mpg on combined city highway commute of 28 miles each way. Get 16-19mpg on the few all highway trips depending on wind. Usually travelling 75mph.
Mice. I haven't looked again at the Envoy or Trailblazer to see if they may be susceptible to this problem that I've just invested almost $400 on. I have now had mice crawl into my HVAC fan twice!! The first time they left a bunch of junk in the fan (shaped like a mouse running wheel) and threw it out of balance causing the whole dash to vibrate at high fan speeds. The second time they chewed through the electrical wires inside the fan motor. $125 for an HVAC fan (fyi). The local dealer tried to jimmy some screen in front of the fan to prevent this but not enough room to make it work. Our best guess is that they are coming in at the ends of the wiper area plastic cover (plastic between the hood and the windshield). At the ends are preformed rubber shields to prevent water entering but there is still plenty of gap for a enterprising mouse. I planning to insert some galvanized screen material and possibly seal around it with some epoxy.
I thought I should let the rest of you know in case you park where mice may be nearby. I am also open to other creative suggestions for preventing these unwanted guests in my Bravada.

Otherwise no other problems have arisen with this particular triplet SUV.

Thanks,
Tom

richardcoulson · February 2002

Mice can be a problem with almost any car. I just had one get into my honda civic last year. It all the way to the condenser and made a nest (and bathroom). It later tried to get out when I turned the fan on, which was a fatal mistake. In short, it pissed and crapped all over inside the ducts. I ran water and cleaner through them to try and clean them out inside, but I never got rid of the smell. It now smells like cleaner and piss on those nice damp and rainy days....

ricklaut · February 2002

Bryan -

I bought the stainless Manik stepbars at autostyles.com (http://www.autostyles.com/mangmc.htm) and paid just under $400 for them (now they're $400 even).

It took a while for Manik to get the order right (Autostyles did their part just fine), but I ordered them as soon as they were released.

Rick

ruski · February 2002

No one mentioned Zaino. This stuff is among the best (if not the best)

http://www.zainobros.com

As for washing and drying, 100% Made in USA cotton towels are the best thing to use.

richardcoulson · February 2002

Netsolstice, it's not a funny story when it is 0 degrees out and I have to run the defrost full blast.... That's why I sold it to a used car lot. I couldn't sell it myself since I would have to lie about the problem to someone. The used car salesman didn't ask me about any problems or any mice issues, so I didn't have to lie. If I apply the right logic, anything makes sense.

funits · February 2002

One way to keep mice from getting into automobiles is the good ole fashioned mouse trap. I place one underneath a vehicle. I have great luck using peanut butter as bait. Of course you must be very careful of children and pets. My Envoy is parked in the garage between a 1946 Buick Super Sedanette and a 1951 Buick Super Riviera (therefore making the Envoy look small), but I have mouse traps under all vehicles (and inside the antique autos). It seems the most effective way to deal with the problem -- and I have tried many things to keep mice out of my antique cars.

cwhawk · February 2002

I just returned from my Chevrolet dealer for my first oil change on my white TB LTZ. The service rep. knows me and knows about the paint scrape problem on most vehicles. He told me they had just received a white TB LTZ this week with a gasket installed. I went and looked at the vehicle and it was a black rubber gasket on a white TB LTZ. It did not look bad, but would have looked better if the gasket were body colored. Since my vehicle is white, I asked the rep. to inquire if GM will make it available in white.

Contact your dealer - a fix may be available.

In addition, all five new TBs on his lot had all seat bracket covers on them.

Just shows what American car makers can do. Only improved engine mounts to reduce vibration and gas mileage complaints to address and GM may actually have a winner.

jmw4 · February 2002

A couple times per week in the morning on a cold start, the engine revs along with what sounds like a noisy fan. While this is happening it seems the transmission is only partly engaged because the more you step on the gas, the louder the engine and fan noise while the truck does not accelerate as it should. It typically goes away in about 3 minutes and drives normal. Has anyone experienced this recently? As an aside, since the recall on the reprogrammed trans, I only get about 13 miles to the gallon in suburban driving. This even after they already replaced the PCM due to delayed shifts.

bryancos · February 2002

I came across these photos of a wrecked Envoy on Ebay that someone (perhaps a former member here?) is salvaging. OUCH!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1807507349

lilianasmom · February 2002

1. Any news on the $2002 rebate/5.9% if it'll be extended? When would we know?

2. I read on this forum somewhere that I should try to purchase an Envoy built AFTER WHICH DATE? I thought I'd remembered Oct. 01...but I'm not sure. What was the reason again that I need to check into the date it was built?

3. Is the upgraded Bose system worth the $...or do you think the standard stereo is fine? We are for sure getting the 6 CD changer. For the same $ for the Bose, can I get a higher quality speaker system installed somewhere else?

4. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Which options would be best for me? I don't plan to off-road. ECS? Locking Differential? I'm not a "car person" so don't understand these too much.

5. Thinking about the Monterey Marroon Metalic color...haven't seen one in person but it looks cool. Hope to see one tomorrow. How would that color hold up in this climate (salt, snow, etc...)?

Think that's about it for now. Many thanks in advance for the help.

Kristin

icojones · February 2002

How good is the GM keychip security? Should I even bother with a club on my TB LTZ? Would an ignition kill keypad be redundant?

kimodo · February 2002

I have experienced the same problem several times suring cold mornings. Engines sounds really loud and doesn't want to accelerate at all. THis happens when I'm late for work and don't let the car warm up long enough.

archdukerizzo · February 2002

Same here.
I've had this happen twice since I've had my bravada.
The fan will come on and sound really really loud untill the car warms up and acceleration, for lack of a better word, sucks. The second time it happend was tonight before I went to dinner. I hadn't used the bravada all day.

richardcoulson · February 2002

sweibling, it sounds as if your trailblazer had some panels repainted. The pinholes are usually the result of air bubbles and the hair mark is usually caused by some sort of dirt such as hair, fuzz, lint, etc. Air bubbles and dirt are rare in a factory controlled paint booth environment, but are common in local body shops. Body shops usually buff out any marks in the paint so they are not normally noticed. Could your car have been a demo or had some damage during shipping or dealer prep that required re-painting? You seem to have too many problems in different areas of the trailblazer, which you would see as a result of driving the car in normal conditions.

triumphbobk · February 2002

sweibling, I agree with richard, and it doesn't matter how many miles are on the odometer, damage could've happened during shipping or on the dealer lot. I've seen a brand new Envoy on a dealer lot which had the right rear fender smashed in, and it still had the factory seat protection. The problems with the paint may have been caused by rework at the dealer's body shop. You should talk to the dealer, but if you conclude that it's a factory paint problem, its debatable whether it should be repaired or not.

funits · February 2002

1. I believe the rebate/finance rates are good till 2/28 -- whether they will extend or not is anyone's guess. I did better than 5.9% in my area, so you may want to check around.

2. My Envoy was built 01/02 (label located on the driver's door edge). Knock on wood, but I have not had problems. Personally I would make sure I bought a vehicle built in 2002.

3. I like the Bose system, and others on this forum like the system -- I would venture to say it is worth the money and saves the headaches and expense of adding an after market setup.

4. Get an Envoy with the SH pkg., you get locking differential, Bose, upgrade wheels, HEATED SEATS (a must have in cold climates), air suspension (great over frost heaves), etc. Whether you need it or not, who can say, but it is fun to have!

5. Color is a personal choice, but I think red/black show dirt/salt more than lighter colors -- but get what you like.

Good Luck.

jmw4 · February 2002

Has anyone who has experienced the morning shift problem whith the loud fan sound and lack of acceleration had their vehicle fixed? If so, what was the diagnosis? Since this is a problem that occurs only part of the time it will fall under the old dealer line of "could not duplicate problem" and I'd be wasting time bringing it in for repair. On the other hand, I'm sure it won't fix itself and I would not want to carry this problem past the covered warranty period.

mrau · February 2002

My Envoy was built Dec 01. No problems. Think most of the recalls were before Oct 01. The build date is on label on drivers door.

I like the 1 sh package also. The ECS suspension helps give a smooth ride. Everyone agrees the BOSE is worth it. Might be hard to get upgrade later since the OnStar is tied into radio/speakers. The 6 cd changer saves you having to store CD some place else in vehicle.
The "locking diff" will help when you travel through that Wisconsin snow. Keeps both rear wheels turning if one slips.
The heated seats are a must for cold climates and leather. I have used that more than I thought I would. Of course it's been winter the whole time I've had it. The low setting and Back Only sure is comforting even after the car warms up.
You don't hear too much about Rain sense wipers. But I have come to like that feature also. The wipers will automatically adjust speed depending how wet the windshield is. Works great when someone passes you and sprays your windshield, the wipers seem to kick right in.
Be sure to check your roof rack cross bars. There is an arrow on the top of each one that points to "forward". Just checked mine and they are on backwards. Heard others had the same thing. Might just as well have dealer make it right before you take delivery.
The color is your choice. You can't go wrong here. Just pick one you like. All Envoys look good no matter the color....of course Pewter is just a touch better .

Haven't heard about rebates after 2-28-02. Just have to take a chance, but I can't imagine them getting much better.

Good luck,
--Mike

dshepherd3 · February 2002

I am pretty sure there is a tsb on the premature engagement of the cooling fan and there may also be one applicable to the trans shift complaint also, if the dealer is uncooperative post back and I will get the tsb numbers for you.

johntr · February 2002

I have had that issue of the loud cooling fan, but have not experienced it in a long time now (over 4 months). I bought my Trailblazer in May 2001. Tomorrow I have it scheduled with the dealer on another issue which occurs when the vehicle is started (most of the time). I have a whistle sound which comes on when I go over 12-20mph and is constant, it will not fluctuate when I accelerate or decelerate. It continues up to 70mph, same pitch, same volume. It seems that after 30-45 minutes it stops and usually doesn't occur again during that driving period. I hope it is something they can diagnose and fix without having me take it back numerous times... I'll try to update the results of this as time goes on.

If anyone else has heard of this issue, please post your findings.

mrau · February 2002

Here is a photo of the Luggage rack with the "Front" arrow

mrau · February 2002

Here is a view of how Luggage Rack should look. Notice the tie-down hole goes toward the front of the vehicle.

Hope this helps everyone. Mine were backward at first, but is very easy to change. Just pop cover off front of each rail and then slide the rack off. Just be sure to put back on the correct way.

--Mike

scottc454 · February 2002

dsheperd3, I'd like the TSB number for the fan problem. Isn't there a web site that lists them?
I think it's been posted here before.
I'd like to have this info before I go in to the dealer. I mentioned the fan issue to them when I had the transmission recall done and they blew me off.

The noisy fan doesn't bother me too much when I first start the truck, as it goes away quikly. However, it sometimes comes on when I'm up in the mountains on the highway. It sounds like a jet engine at 3000 RPM's and it sucks away power which is not what you want at 11000 ft.

dshepherd3 · February 2002

The tsb for the fan was issued 8/01 and is #290801, but I don't know if this addresses the noise portion of your complaint or the fan coming on when it should not, obviously the fan coming on in a cold engine is unecessary unless a momentary power up is normal on start up, part of the questions to ask.

cmack4 · February 2002

The license plate is meant to screw into the bottom holes on the front bracket! Mine had the nubs at the top and two small indentations at the bottom where they screw in. The self tapping screws easily go through the plastic bracket, but it's nice because they don't hit the plastic bumper, in case you ever move to a state where the front plate isn't required.

jmw4 · February 2002

I'll pass along what the dealer will do or not do on cooling fan issue. Given it only happens at times, there is definitely a problem somewhere. I have only thus far experienced it in the morning although it seems to be more frequent now than before.

bleffler · February 2002

This must be a pretty common problem. I was planning on taking my Bravada in this week. This was going to be on my punch list for repairs. Mine kicks in when it's cold and the vehicle has been setting for awhile.

icojones · February 2002

In my TB LTZ there is a small, speaker-like thing right by the left ear of the driver. Does anyone know what this is?

Mine buzzes occassionally, and I am wondering if that indicates that something is wrong.

Thanks.

richardcoulson · February 2002

I think that little speaker thing next to your ear is a microphone used for the auto volume control for the stereo. It senses noise levels and adjust the volume up or down to keep the stereo volume constant with the other road noises.

crj1 · February 2002

That is the microphone for Onstar, so you can talk to them.

tsprouse · February 2002

If you notice the slant of the roof racks when the arrow is pointing forward, this is why you are
getting the wind (whistling) noise. It is more aerodynamic to have the arrows pointing backwards.
I changed mine and eliminated the wind noise.

giddens_john · February 2002

Pardon my ignorance on aerodynamics, but if the tapered edge of the roof rack slats is facing forward, wouldn't that be opposite of the aerodynamics behind a wing on a fixed wing aircraft, or a propeller blade on a prop plane. I'm not questioning your results tsprouse, in fact logic says stick with what works. I would just figure one would want to aim the roof rack slats in the same manner as an airplane wing due to the fact that wings are shaped that way to offer less wind resistance. If I have it backwards please feel free to correct me.

hayhay · February 2002

the FIRST time it happened to me was xmas eve. - all packed up for the holiday week - I thought the tranny was locked up. I shifted manually though the gears and finally I got power back. Of course the dealer "could not duplicate customer concern" ... It has happened a couple of more times and I park in a heated garage..???

jht · February 2002

I've had the fan "lock" issue happen a handful of times so far (I got my Bravada last March - as I'd mentioned before here, the recall was announced as I drove home from the dealer!). When it's locked in, it happens right when I start the engine for the first time that morning, and if I let the car warm up for about 2 minutes it'll be gone when I pull out of my driveway. If I just warm up for 10-15 seconds and then pull out, the fan will stay locked for a couple of blocks' distance.

I haven't been too concerned with it, because it only happens from a cold start after hours of downtime, and it's happened less than 10 times in total in the nearly a year that I've owned the car. One of these days I may look further into it, but it's not readily reproducible.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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