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There are by far more numbers of Triplets on the lots around town than MDX's and Pilots. Not to mention the number of GM Dealers is much higher. Heck, they've always been plagued with the various Brands battling it out even.
Sure quality has something to do with it, but it's just part of the reason why someone would pay sticker and up for a vehicle. IMO, it's the dumbest thing to do. Talk about loosing money and taking a depreciation hit...
Dealers set the selling price, not the manufacturers and if they are seeing a strong demand for vehicles that sell for list..they sure aren't going to begin discounting them.
Here in Columbus/Marysville, Accords go for a premium but then they do get tons of traffic and sell a lot of cars at high margins. Now they don't outsell the domestics, but the name of the game is profit, not just revenue. Many Honda and Acura Dealers make a ton more money and sell much fewer cars than the domestic. Wish we could have done that on a regular basis....and we did back in the early to mid 80's.
tim
My 2000 Blazer had it..
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
My white TB LTZ *does* run great!!! Purchased 01/02, build date 11/01.
It's been in the shop just one time for a dead battery caused by a faulty rear hatch lock, and my local chevy dealer was great to work with.
(My only complaints with the chevy dealer were that it took them 8 days to find the problem and get the new part delivered, and then they returned my TB to me FILTHY!!! I complained. They claimed to hear me.)
About the only thing that I can consistently find to complain about with this vehicle is the 17mpg average that I've been getting, but that's not why we bought this truck anyway, so I don't complain very often. (my '92 Accord with 190k miles still gets 32 mpg, so I can deal with 17 from the TB)
Other than that, we've thoroughly enjoyed owning and driving our Trailblazer and we're always getting compliments from friends/co-workers about its good looks. My wife finally had to put a stop to my accessorizing before it got too far out of hand.
Sorry to hear about everyone else's "triplet troubles", and I hope there's at least a few of us out there having a good experience.
There you go Steve.....hope my review doesn't turn out to be the "kiss of death" ;-)
I had one instance where the windshield washers didn't work. I was able to fix it myself very easily. Works fine now.
It's the best car I've owned in my 25 years of driving!
The only "problem" that the dealer "fixed" was to replace the rear differential oil to stop "chatter" when taking off from a stop and making a left-hand turn (which was corrected!).
"Problems" that happened once or can't be repeated on demand: driver's side mirror stopped working (starting working after 2 days and has not recurred); Auto climate control outside temp. display was stuck on 69° (even though it was 95° outside) -- after 1-day at 69° (and alot of abusive jokes from co-workers, as I took the Envoy that day to go to lunch!!!!) it has displayed the correct temp. ever since; the remote lock-unlock does not work in hot weather -- I have to hit the button anywhere from 2-4 times before the vehicle will unlock/lock when the temperature is above 75° (during colder weather, it works fine!!!!); the air conditioning compressor did not come on once during hot weather (auto system) -- when car was stopped (shut-off) and started again, it was fine and has been fine since; sometimes the rear hatch does not unlock when the vehicle is put in park (all the doors unlock, but not the rear hatch).
So, although I do really enjoy the very comfortable, quiet and smooth ride, the great power, decent gas mileage (I normally get 18.5-19.5 mpg in mixed driving, 22-23 mpg on the highway or extended trips), the utility to carry alot of stuff --- I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER GMC PRODUCT. I will wait until the Volkswagen Toureag is available and go back to owning Volkwagens. Europeans do vehicles better!
And, yes, Highlanders have problems -- a person I work with has a Highlander -- some relay switch goes bad and the battery goes dead (has happened twice to them!); remotes have died twice; 2 recalls; doors seals defective and replaced. But, they don't complain, they like their Highlander!
Will the Isuzu version of the triplets, to be built in line with the GM badged vehicles, I believe, not be builr with the same specs?
Although these buy decisions are heavily influnced by the fact that my wife is a Raytheon employee (legacy Hughes-GM), and we get them at about dealer cost, I have been satisfied with overall performance and engineering in these vehicles.
They both have advanced technology engines, provide an excellent combination of power and mileage, and are, IMO, among the best looking vehicles in their respective categories.
At dealer cost, value is pretty much a given.
We shopped other mfg and models before selecting either of these vehicles.
Pilots were expensive, blah, and didn't have the space and utility of the XL.
The "quality" stigma will never leave GM, regardless of what they do because all of us sensitized to the issue and pay a lot of attention to the most minor problems. They have earned that reputation and must live with it.
For their part, imports have a reputation for gouging on maintenance, and in Hondas case, even on the purchase price. Have seen this on popular Nissan and Toyotas also. 'specially trucks.
On balance, they all have drawbacks and no one "gives" more attention to any facet than the other. If a vehicle is clearly better, you can bet that is in the price. That's what corporations do.
U1000 was the code Onstar read while it was out. Dealer said that several A/C systems were over charged. They should have been at 2.8 instead of the 3.0. Also, GM is having trouble with the "lift gate module." They want to replace mine. They think this maybe the cause to fussy A/C units.
I was referring to non-rebadged vehicles in the Isuzu/Subaru lineups (which would also exclude the Hombre aka S10 pickup of a few years ago and the Oasis aka Oddessey made by honda)
-mike
Only minor problems fixed at the dealer:
1. License plate gasket installed
2. Computer reprogrammed for downshift delays
3. PCM (or ECM) replaced because the engine stalled ONCE while stopped at a traffic light (OK, this could be a major one but I wasn't stranded and it worked fine after I "rebooted")
4. Rear window gasket replaced for small water leak
And I get a free lube and oil each time I fill out the survey form and bring it to my service advisor to "review" (I assume he mails it back to GM each time).
Mods I've done myself:
1. Installed running boards and splash guards to help prevent paint chipping (it seems to be working)
2. Replaced headlight bulbs with PIAA Superwhites (what a huge difference!)
3. Installed WeatherTech hood/bug deflector.
Minor gripes I can live with:
1. Poor cupholder design (haven't heard that one in a while)
2. Fuel tank is a bit small
3. Fog lights don't do much
This truck, despite it's and everyone else's problems, is light years ahead of the '93 Explorer I traded in.
Because GM would rather that you take the vehicle into the dealer ($$$$$) for a repair....
Just thinking out loud!
Thanks for the posts!
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Well, I'm sure he's sending it in. I believe they get some incentives for the per cent of "completely satisfied's", etc. Hopefully he's not changing your answers or writing himself praises in the comments section .
Mods I've done myself:
1. Installed running boards and splash guards to help prevent paint chipping (it seems to be working)
What type and brand of boards and guards did you install?
the paint code. Some vehicles came through missing these paint codes if yours is tell me and I'll get you the code.
Service performed so far:
1)Transfer case locked up. Waited 18 days for part. Vehicle out of service.
2)Accessory drive belt replaced due to major
squealing.
3)Transmission computer updated due to poor shifting.
4)Brakes go to floor with medium pressure when
stopped. Told this is normal condition.
5)Inner fender seals loose. Not addressed. I fixed
them myself with RTV.
6)Wind noise between doors. Not addressed. Still an issue.
7)Rear tailgate insert gasket installed to prevent
paint chipping.
8)Cooling fan computer updated to prevent unwanted
engagement.
9)Fuel filter fittings replaced per recall.
Current Service visit:
10)Wandering outside rearview mirrors (TSB).
11)Defective sunvisor (only hangs straight down).
12)Drivers window does not close fully at speed.
13)Paint flaking off center caps of wheels.
Service stop to be scheduled in winter:
14)Power steering pump screams at temps under 10
degrees
15)Rattle in dashboard when temp in under 30 degrees.
Other issues:
16)Roof rack rails loose. Fixed myself although there is a TSB out.
17)Loose weatherstripping on top of windshield and rear doors. Fixed myself with RTV.
18)Remote keyless entry does not always work in hot weather. Not addressed yet.
19)Front facia/bumper extremely loose (1-2" vertical slop). Fixed myself with washers and foam rubber.
20)Extremely poor fit on various body panel (1/2"
offset or more). Mudflaps fit poorly.
21)Paint chipping on trailing edge of rear doors. Not addressed yet.
This afer 6 months! What a piece of CRA*! Yes, some issues are minor, but 21 on a new vehicle!
I have been without the vehicle for 21 days so far. Wisconsin requires 30 for a lemon repurchase.
Maybe I will take it in separately for each remaining problem. Olds customer service actually had the gall to thank me for making Olds my vehicle of choice! I will NEVER buy a GM product again. Sorry for the ranting and good luck to those who are problem free. Those who feel sorry for me can send their donations to.............
(just kidding).
GAM
02 Envoy SLT. So I checkout anything that has to do with an Envoy repair, I have yet to see an Envoy that needed front sway bar links.
>My friend's dealer tells him that they are >changing several sets of these a week
1) Part of the problem is the dealership. I work with Car Dealers on a daily basis and there are good ones and there are bad ones. I, unfortunately, left a good one to buy from a bad one, their was $1800 difference in price on the exact same vehicle. I don't have $1800 to throw around but in a way, I wish I'd stuck with the more expensive dealer.
2) This is a first year car and bugs are going to crop up. This is the price you pay for leading edge. Compared to some of my previous "first year buys", GM has done pretty good, especially with a brand new frame, engine and computer system.
3) Unfortunately, GM is hiding behind some of their problems rather than coming forward and addressing them . Their is way too much damage control going on rather than saying, "yea, we had a problem and this is how we'll fix it. GM refuses to let us dedicated owners have access to their tech sites - if it weren't for a few dedicated board members (GMDrone and Tim Lauro) we would really be out in the dark. I can list more than one item than rather than be a standup guy about a warranty problem, GM has chosen a Cover Your Axx posture. Want a tip, GM? Treat us like adults, we aren't cry-babies, we are your most loyal customers. Use our experiences to make your product better.
4) The Jimmy I bought in '96, GMC did all kinds of followup and customer satisfaction programs. My '98, same program, plus some more freebies. No big deal but a nice gesture. But on my new 2002, sorry, not even a phone call. Are times that hard in Detroit? I don't think so, I think it is mis-directed management paying attention to bottom line numbers rather than customer satisfaction.
Would I buy another one? Yes. Could this one be improved? Yes. Could GM be more customer focused? Yes. Are there better brands out there? This is really a personal choice.
Got a problem? Share your info to help others. Just want to vent? please use another forum, we are interested in making the triplet a better automobile experience.
Enough for my Rant.
Paul P
C'mon if you can't figure out how to make paint stick or make a sunvisor work properly, you have a problem. Put yourself in my shoes. Maybe this will help us all in the long run.
GAM
p.s I'm really happy for all of you with "good ones".
Does anyone know if there are tsb's for 1) the sagging headliner, and 2) the loose front bumper - someone mentioned that there is a bracket now available. Thanks for your help.
I have been a GM owner for over three decades now. GM was the first vehicle experience in life. I have bought Japanese cars too and currently own one; they have had problems but got fixed asap while under warranty, no hastles. Honda extended my emissions warranty to 140k miles or 14 years on my Accord, made it better. I recently bought the TB since I enjoyed the test ride and some of the features as well as going price. Our last 11 years of experience with our '91 Astro Van was excellent. I did most of my work on that vehicle so I kept operating costs down. Since the engine and transmission have been extremely faithful, I decided to give GM another shot with the TB. Well, I think I got burnt this time around. The engine on this one started to tick after the first 300 miles. I think a lifter or poor oil circulation around the front valve is causing the problem. The tapping begins to sound after the engine warms up at idle. It goes away as you rev up, can't hear it when you first start it up. I have been to the dealer twice, all they can say is, normal noise and come back after 4k-5k miles. GM is backing them up on the latter advice. After reading all these posts, I share a common experience with you all...I paid good money for this truck and the check did not bounce at the bank when it got deposited. All I want is to get it fixed, avoid further damage and feel I got a good deal on this thing. By prolonging my misery, others get turned off to GM and the TB. Doesn't sound like we are making progress here. I cannot remember ever being turned away for a legitimate problem by a dealer, let alone the selling dealer who was backed up by the manufacturer on this too. It is never too late to learn lessons in life.
I do think that the 2003's and 2004's will have most of the bugs worked out. Ironically enough, I view the Impala forum on edmunds and it very much sounded like this forum in the beginning... but after 10,000+ postings, the comments appear to be very much more positive!
I am glad that most of my concerns have been addressed, but WOW.. the time spent to get these things resolved does not go unnoticed.. Unfortunately I have much more better things to do with my time than to spend time visiting service departments..
My two cents!
IExplore2000@aol.com
Wheels.. what is the backspacing and bolt pattern?
I want bigger wheels but don't want the rougher ride. So, I thought a 18" would be better.
stock tire is 245/60 17". this is a 29.6 diameter.
I would like to go to a 275/55 in the same Michelin SUV tire. This would increase my diameter to 30.1" and 10.5" for section width. (from 9.6)
will it work?
rubbing?
mileage?
ride?
calibration issues for speedometer?
Centerline makes a great looking wheel called the voltage. I want a chrome wheel for northern element issues. Centerline whiles seem to be the litest too.
I had to wait a while for the dealer to find a Sandlewood with Oak cloth interior, but it was worth the wait.
The sales staff at Guaranty Chevrolet in Santa Ana, CA was a pleasure to do business with. After only contacting them by phone and email, they obtained the vehicle I wanted, had it ready to go on a Saturday morning only using about 1 hour of my time, with the paperwork all ready with my GM supplier discount applied.
We looked at Envoy and Bravada also along with the Durango and Jeep GC & Liberty.
Envoy and Bravada dashes were too busy, with the chrome and wood accents, and the different body panels, especially in the front, weren't appealing to us.
I liked the Durango, but found that unless you go with the top of the line the seats are inferior, IMHO.
The Liberty was too small (it's deceptive when you look at the outside with the big flares) and the GC was out of our price range.
Frank
Here is a list:
Exterior:
Manik Grille guard
Manik Nerf Pipes
Manik Tail Light guards
Piaa 520 Fog lights
Billet Grille
30% tints in the front windows
Yakima Roof rack system for my snowboards and bike.
K&N air filter
Viper 550ESP Alarm with remote start
Ventvisors
GM hoodsheild
Pirelli Scorpion A/T 265/75-16
Interior:
WeatherTech FloorMats
Wet Okole Neoprene seat covers
Pioneer TS-D160R Rev series Speakers
Infinity Basslink Powered Sub
Thats it for now. Still lookin for more things to do.
I would like to hear about Mods that others on this board have dont to their ride. I'm always interested in new things to do with my truck. Hope to hear from you all soon.
problems by the time the XL's were released. The engine, Transmission and all the electronics has worked flawlessly. My wife and I love this SUV.
The boards are really heavy. I managed to install them myself using some wood blocks and phone books to jack them up into place. It took about 2 hours.
The splash guards were easier and fit perfectly. I did not have to take the wheels off like some have. There is some minor drilling through soft plastic involved, but it's not bad.
Here's the link to my out-of-date Envoy page for the pictures: http://www.geocities.com/geotemp246/envoy_page.htm
Total overhaul of the stereo system. New cd/mp3 deck, MBquart speakers for the front, US acoustics 4 channel amp, and sub. Sounds sweet. Like the fact that the TB is spacious, makes it feel like a bigger soundstage in the front.
Air intake and K&N filter also. Thats it for now. Rims would be nice, but I don't want to bring attention to my car, as there are alot of freggen thieves out there. Kinda sad that if you sup up your car you have to worry about such trash. Better to leave it stock on the outside. Had too many friends who have had incidents with cars they've put so much time and effort into.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Anyway I'm off to Jeep World to see what kind of deal I can get on a 03 Overland.
Wish me luck.
I came close to an Overland, but even without my GM Discount, the LTZ was a better deal. Perhaps things are different now?
Again, enjoy.
tim
http://www.gpsinformation.net/articles/pioneernav.htm
The problem started the day I got the car and the dealer told me to wait until the end of break-in period.
Note: My car was built in May 2002.