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I am also concerned about the piston slap at cold start ups, which will probably reduce the longevity of the engine.
This is almost as bad as that fat guy who's suing the fast food chains. We can't expect them to halt progress on account of keeping owners of older models happy.
It's always frustrating when they come out with something then improve it the next year, but that's the way it works. They should provide longer warranties for first year models or some other incentive, but until we wise up and stop buying first year models, there's no need.
Oh, and if the SUV is a nightmare, let them have it back if there's no sales contract :-)
Steve
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Looking for resale value? The dealer affered me $21,000 on a trade. List was $35,600 6 months, and 5500 miles ago. I've been in contact with their Customer (Dis)Service and they can't even give me an E-mail address for the rep I am dealing with. Each time I reply to an e-mail, it gets lost in the system because their reps don't have individual e-mails. What a joke! Easily the worst vehicle experience of my life! Thanks GM!
GAM
The market is in a tank, and with the history of depreciation values and manufactures taking hits on them, the depreciation rates today, while not to our liking are not abnormally low. Typically, cars loose about 45-50% in 3 years. SUV's were slightly higher about 5-10 years back, but todays market is oversaturated and prices are more competetive as is the selection, thus they are slipping through today. Hey, I'm not commenting on the value of your 6mo. truck, but keep in mind, the 02's were introduced back in early 2001 and from a model year perspective don't have an advantage...in reality...they can be much older. The market is an average, not based on just individual vehicles. Besides, the 03's are out and residual values have already dropped for 02's thus a further impact. Low to 0% finance rates on new doesn't help the value of used cars either.
Lastly, regarding emails.....dealers are the last below attorney's and doctors at wanting to spend money on technology such as PC's and computers. With the turnover there is in the industry and lack of education and hands on experience for sales people....can you imagine the IT costs involved at setting up individual emails? or the time wasted with reps emailing and surfing all day. Most dealers don't want sales or information with anything other than a live body on the phone or at a deal desk. That's how they sell cars regardless of how we the buyer view it. Things will change, but slowly. Just my thoughts as seen from the inside....at one time.
In summary, I feel the results of my 3.73 equipped LTZ are right on par with it's 15/21mpg ratings. After reading the artical, how many of us can say we average 20mph in the city and 48mph on the highway. I sure don't. Given that, I don't think I'll ever see 15/21 on a regular basis. Although I do average about 13-15 in the city and 18-21mph on the expressway.
I do a lot of driving and while am unsure about city speeds, I can say I am quite heavy on the gas pedal...more so than most. The highway...I go no slower than 70mph and typically cruise at 72-75mph....still achieving 18mpg...not bad IMO.
Site: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#estimates
"How are fuel economy estimates obtained?
The fuel economy estimates are based on results of tests required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). These tests are used to certify that vehicles meet the Federal emissions and fuel economy standards. Manufacturers test pre-production prototypes of the new vehicle models and submit the test results to EPA. . EPA re-tests about 10% of the tested vehicles to confirm manufacturer's results in EPA's lab. The vehicles are driven by a professional driver under controlled laboratory conditions, on an instrument similar to a treadmill. These procedures ensure that each vehicle is tested under identical conditions; therefore, the results can be compared with confidence.
There are two different fuel economy estimates for each vehicle in the Fuel Economy Guide, one for city driving and one for highway driving. To generate these two estimates, separate tests are used to represent typical everyday driving in a city and in a rural setting. Two kinds of engine starts are used: the cold start, which is similar to starting a car in the morning after it has been parked all night; and the hot start, similar to restarting a vehicle after it has been warmed up, driven, and stopped for a short time.
The test used to determine the city fuel economy estimate simulates an 11-mile, stop-and-go trip with an average speed of 20 miles per hour (mph). The trip takes 31 minutes and has 23 stops. About 18 percent of the time is spent idling, as in waiting at traffic lights or in rush hour traffic. The maximum speed is 56 mph. The engine is initially started after being parked overnight. Vehicles are tested at 68 F to 86 F ambient temperature.
The test to determine the highway fuel economy estimate represents a mixture of "non-city" driving. Segments corresponding to different kinds of rural roads and interstate highways are included. The test simulates a 10-mile trip and averages 48 mph. The maximum speed is 60 mph. The test is run with the engine warmed up and has little idling time and no stops (except at the end of the test). "
Heck, I swapped out a simple mechanical pulley on the supercharger of my GTP and gained 30hp. Simple mod, yet the dealer won't do it and GM...well, they won't offer it even for a fee. Bet you a $1 that the new L67's Supercharged 3800 hits 270-280hp from GM. Yep, they'll offer it in 04, I'm pretty confident in that. That's a whole 'nother board though
See my comments on depreciation too. The market...us the consumers set depreciation. Not sure why everyone thinks that SUV's are still holding such high values. Look into understanding leasing a bit in detail or talk to a financial planner to understand more, but in the end, Imports only hold their value more because consumers will pay more for them. Ever wonder why a Honda can command such high value? Go count how many Oddessy Vans or Pilot SUV's you see at local dealers. Heck, compare the number of Honda Dealers vs GM in your area. Don't forget that GMC, Chevy and even Olds still...all sell the same trucks. Supply, demand and the almighty Dollar, not GM or GM dealers set what your SUV is worth. Just my thoughts.
My take on leasing can be seen on my site.
tim
I finally located it, after having the rear doors adjusted, hood things lubed, third brake light housing tighened....
Its coming from the driver side roof rack...I can hear it loud and clear when I slam the rear driver side door. I thought this would be an easy fix, so I took the crossbars off, took out the 4 star head screws holding on the rack, slid the inner track out, and the whole side came off.
I lubed everything, with wd-40, tighened everything back down, and, well, IT STILL SQUEAKS!!!!!
An easy way to tell if its your rack, hit the side of it with the palm of your hand...Mine squeaks right aroung the trailing edge of the rear door.....
Any suggestions would be appriciated...If im not able to fix on my own, I will request a new roof rack, as this is driving me crazy...:(
Try pure silicon spray. WD-40 isn't really a lubricant but rather a solvent and can damage rubber and many other seals. Pure Silicon is key.
tlauro is correct, WD40 is not a lube. One of the most useful applications for WD40 used to be spraying it inside damp distributor caps of cars that would not start on cold damp days. This usually removed any moisture inside the cap and if all else was ok, the car would start. This is one thing I don't miss about the older cars. The newer ignitions and spark distribution systems are much more dependable.
To the poster who was overjoyed at getting 26.5 MPG going to the coast. What was the mileage on the return portion of the trip from the coast. Going to the coast is a usually lot of downhill. Going from the coast is the opposite. I once got 67mpg going down a hill in Ohio. Unfortunately I had to go back up the hill on the return trip.
Frank
"that's 1.1 less than claimed city mileage. I'm less than impressed so far with this aspect of my vehicle."
Carl
"..want to choke someone at GM because of near-constant trips to dealers for diagnostic testing of this problem and that."
The TrailBlazer is constantly breaking, one thing after another.
http://autoweek.com/longtermtests/index.mv
Coming home tonight. for the heck of it i decided to pull over to a quiet area and listen for any sounds coming from the motor. Now folks, i almost nearly puked when I heard the knock knock knock knock. Its the same darn knock that GMC replaced my motor in the 2002. It fades in and out. I cannot beleive I am going to have to go through this all over again. I only have 1500 miles on the motor. To say the least I am really down in the dumps right now. What a foolish move on my part for going with GMC again.
GMC=giving migraines constantly
ADJGUY
Adjguy, well so much for the "new, improved" model! Guess the new improvements in the engine do not necessarily address engine knocking noises. More likely improvements to reduce manufacturing costs. Like the new "polymer coated pistons". They probably went to that so the tolerances could remain sloppy and quiet the piston slap with a coating of "polymer". How many of you have worn off the coating of "polymer" (i.e., PTFE or Teflon) on a frying pan? I guess that the new polymer coated pistons and that added cost has been more than offset with the simpler harmonic balancer and removing the oil level sensor.
Oh well, I did convince a friend this weekend to forget a GM triplet for now (I don't want the responsibility!) and go look at a Mercury Marauder.
9, 2002. I have almost 4,000 miles with zero problems. No sqeecks, no knocking. MPG 20-21 interstate driving. 16 MPG all around driving.
Its hard to believe some people are having so many
problems. I am very pleased with my XL.
I have the GM add-on boards and the guards will work. See pix on my site http://www.trailblazer.homestead.com
i've got the GM factory boards on my LTZ and had the dealer throw on a set of 4 moulded splash guards (with ugly white bowtie, which i promptly removed) before i took delivery.....looks great, too
same with my brother and his Envoy....factory boards and GMC moulded flaps
sorry, but unfortunately i do not have/know the part number(s), but my dealer let me look at what they had to offer before installing them, so i could choose between just the flat, black truck mud flaps and the moulded guards.....try calling another dealer to see if their parts dept knows a bit more about it.
I have drove this thing like a baby. my shift points are always below 2500rpm if not lower. I am constantly pissing people off with my slow starts, but really wanted to try and be easy on the motor and hope it wouldnt start knocking, well that didnt work.
GMC is a joke, and for them to continue selling us vehicles that are defective is a crime.
GMC, mark my words, YOU WILL PAY. Just look at what happened to Anthony and Opie when they tried to cheat my girl out of a contest. )
ADJGUY
As for how being a DJ helps to hear engine noises, I don't know what kind of music you're dealing with there.
Frank
02 Bravadas are going for $28-29000 around here.
They wanted to make a quick $7-8000 on my trade, on top of what they would make on the replacement vehicle. As expected, a letter to the dealer has gone unanswered.
Regarding customer service, I was talking Oldsmobile Customer Service. I have an open complaint file with them at their headquarters.
They tell me the Olds reps do not have individual e-mail addresses. Doesn't matter. I got the same response to every letter I wrote. It's time to take a different avenue.
adjguy: Think class action suit!
GAM
The way I see it, I let the dumb guys get screwed and generate profit for the dealers. That way they can afford to give out good deals to more enlightened and persistant folks.
I don't know why people get all bent out of shape at the dealership experience. Nobody can make you buy or sell anything and you have the freedom to visit multiple dealerships. Capitalism at its finest.
Thanks in advance!
Ron M.
I knew I saved that TSB number for reference someone posted a month or so ago .
would like to start a page od edmunds townhall user pictures of trucks. send me a .jpg file and I'll put it on.
http://www.trailblazer.homestead.com/
L Webb
Personally, I've tried everything to hear a knock in my engine, and it just isn't there. Even when cold, it doesn't make an audible knocking noise... even though every engine will theoretically have some knock, since it's impossible for the piston and sleeve to expand and contract at the same rate under differing heat conditions.
The people who are actually experiencing an audible knock should closely monitor their oil consumption. While some oil consumption is acceptable in the combustion process, any changes in the normal consumption is often a sign of premature wearing of piston/sleeve walls.
On a side note, if a problem would start to exist, it should be an easier fix on the triplets, since the sleeve that the piston travels in is a separate component from the block itself. Looking at the 6.0L pics, it appears that the sleeve is integrated into the block, so the entire engine block needs to be replaced versus just the sleeve.