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Subaru Impreza WRX
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Comments
Plus, previous model years sold well in Japan, Europe and the rest of the world, so that is worth something. It is also good to know that the EJ20 engine is highly developed by racing and customer use, so all important bugs have very likely been worked out. So even moderate upgrades (extra 20% in power) probably won't decrease reliability significantly.
I agree with few luxuries. As long as the car is quieter than my crap (but trustworthy) truck, I'll be satisfied. With cloth seats, I'll be in the lap of luxury. In my parents' BMW, I realized that trip computers, power seats, and sunroofs become boring. I also realized in my truck that it is more important that major items like heater, A/C, wipers, and gauges work reliably after many years. The seats should also be durable.
Stephen
It's a testimonial to these cars that they are the standards everyone else seems to be chasing. It comes with being on the top consistently for a long period of time.
However, with all due respect, comparing a Subaru to a BMW from a historical perspective is pretty absurd. Allen Iverson may be the NBA All Star of the moment, but given his history, he's not likely to replace Michael Jordon on the Wheaties box or as a role model for kids (I want to be like Allen????).
Subaru apparantly has come a long way over the past fifteen years years from when my friends were anxious to dump their "Burros" in favor of real cars. Congratulations are well deserved. However, the comparison to BMW will, for me, take another couple of decades to be justified.
And the IS300 isnt luxurious IMO, its got a hard plastic dash and console with fake silver highlights (Same as the WRX, exept the WRX dash is soft to the touch). The Gages are fancy looking, but rather non-functional and hard to see. The radio and climate area is fancy as well, but that just makes it hard to operate... Blank out the gages and the center console area with the radio and other controls, and its hard to tell them apart.
Remember, the IS300 is more of a top-of-the line Toyota than a bottom of the line Lexus (And its sold as a Toyota in the rest of the world to boot)
WRX has terrific chasis, engine, suspension, and handling. It is one of the cars in the market which is most highly decorated with motor sports trophies. It has everything and is proven, but it does not have pedigree of luxury. Now, if an experienced tester says "330 still has an edge in steering and handling" or something, I respect that kind of opinion. I really want to know how "car and driver" will judge WRX.
I guess What I want to say is 330-WRX comparison is quite relevant from the point of view of driving pleasure. But it is quite irrelevant, if you think price and pedegree are important and if you think a car is a piece of furniture.
I own 2000 Jetta VR6 and 1997 Impreza. Jetta's interior/exterior quality is so nice and it's no comparison with Impreza's cheat toy-like interior finish. Now I am approaching 40 years and start to like indulging myself in such a nice interior. This is Jetta-Impreza comparison. So, I agree 330-Impreza comparison IS absurd in that respect. If you can afford, go for 330. But if you are young or a driving enthusiast, WRX-330 comparison is valid, although you must forget about car price in one hand and luxurious interior in the other hand.
4 years from now, I will get rid of my Jetta VR6. If 330 and WRX are still in the market, I will seriously compare them. No doubt. $35K 330 is a little stretch but I can get a highly praised car with gorgous interior/exterior and a normal aspiration engine, and I will be envied (or maybe a bit dingerous in Baltimore). $25K WRX is perfectly within my budget and I can enjoy its driving ability everyday. So, here is at least one guy, who will actually compare the two .
I've sat in the new WRX, and while the MOMO steering wheel is nice, it's, IMHO, no better than a steering wheel that Subaru could have designed in house. It's waste of money, as far as I'm concerned.
As for the 17" BBS wheels—$3K just for the wheels, sans tires—is nothing short of highway robbery (pun intended!). With tires, you're probably in the neighborhood of $3.6K. That's crazy!
Again, Subaru has some great 17" in-house rims/tires that are "standard" on overseas WRXs. I doubt they add $3.6K (U.S. $ equivalent) to the cost of the vehicle.
I'd be surprised if SOA sells many of those 17" rims. It's a shame, really.
Bob
One advantage of a Subaru over the Audi and BMW that I haven't seen mentioned is that parts are available and generally don't require a second mortgage. That's really good (and important to me). But it's not very prestigious.
Take care.
Joe W>
Also, WRX is not "just one model". Subaru has high-output twin-turbo Legacy for 10 years, which has been ranked as one of #1s in the Japanese market where you can find a number of insane domestic sport sedans.
I have been in the (Toyota) car-biz for 2 decades. Many times I saw the two compared, and having owned both at one time or another (a beemer and an old 510), it's amazing what folks will compare, car to car. Really.
Dianne
Take care.
Joe W>
Even though you could buy 3 WRXs for the price of the 911, there are some very valid comparisons: in engineering, in corporate philosophy, and in (the bottom line) driving satisfaction. It's an interesting read.
Bob
The point(s) are: that, besides sharing a boxer and AWD format; Subaru engineers, early on, were strongly influenced by Porsche engineers; and, that for most driving, they both offer similar levels of satisfaction.
By the numbers, the Porsche is the faster car. You would expect that. What I didn't expect was, that according to the folks at Automobile, a WRX is just as much fun to drive as the AWD 911.
Bob
I am in the market for a new car and the more I read about it, the better it sounds!!!
Do not compare the interiors of the current generation Impreza to the likes of Audi or BMW or even a VW. The Impreza is plasticky and crappy. However the new age design is very good. I just sat inside a WRX today at the Toronto autoshow and am very impressed with the seats. It is on par if not even better than the seats that is in our 330Ci at home. sans the heated treatment. Actually the Canadian WRX all have heated front seats....
The interiors are beefed up. Much better than the current gen interior dash boards. Still no where the likes of bmws or audis. You are paying for the interiors pretty much. So nice.... i really dig the baseball glove motif interior of the TTs. Anyone know where TTs are made?
The MOMO wheel on the other hand, is VERY nice to see! What other cars have Momo wheels? Ferrari... Thats it
Oh, and here are some quotes from the Automobile Mag comparo between the WRX and the 911:
"This car is as close to the old Porsche 944 Turbo as you'll find today"
"Funnily enough, the 911 used to be like this. It was a car you had to learn to control, a car that rewarded good execution... ...Now, the Porsche 911 is too harried by insurance companies to leave its raffishness exposed, but it, like the WRX, retains the short wheelbase that, to the trained eye, means power oversteer."
"The Subaru WRX engine is best thought of as two-thirds of a Porsche 956/962 engine."
"...In many important ways, these cars are bound together- by the rallying heritage of their all-wheel-drive hardware, by their boxer engines, by there emphasis on handling, and, finally, by their ability to blend refinement with the kind of performance that drains the blood out of your brain."
(I like this one) "And if your a rally enthusiast or a PlayStation-ist (Gran Turismo reference), its fair to say that the WRX holds as much allure as the 911, despite being nearly $50,000 cheaper."
"If the 911 wears its age on its sleeve, so does the WRX. The Subaru is as light as the 911 is hefty, as impetous as the Porsche is stable, and as explosive as the 911 is measured. Nevertheless, if you really examine the cars back-to-back, the WRX reveals itself to simply be a less polished version of the 911. The WRX is not quite as refined, not quite as quient, not quite as developed, but both cars have the same tactile directness born of the same engineering solutions. In fact, its uncanny how much these cars have in common."
"In terms of ride, the WRX and the 911 strike an almost identical ballance of soft wheel impacts and stiff, well-controlled body movements... ...These cars dont just read the road, they subject it to strict freudian analysis."
"In handling too, both cars take the same tack. The 911 and the WRX are set up for mild initial understeer that segues to a neutral phase, then, finally, to oversteer... ... a WRX slide can be adjusted with careful applications of the throttle, an overeager foot prompts the notorious Swedish Flick of rallying legend."
"The WRX and the 911 are not compeditors, really, but they're very definatly in the same league."
Sorry prestige fans... But for the price of the 330 or X-type or IS300, I could get a WRX, put on those BBS rims, the STi Suspension package, the STi exhaust, a chip upgrade, air filter upgrade, maybe one or two more mods, and I'd eat up anything less than an M3 for lunch
Leather and fancy cupholders just isnt worth that much guys... Sorry
As for the 17" BBS wheels, Subaru offers a standard some very nice 17" rims as standard on all WRXs sold overseas. Why couldn't (shouldn't) we get those too? So the base price would be a little higher, but at least you wouldn't be paying $3.6K, as you would now.
I sometimes wonder what Subaru is thinking when they make marketing decisions. There are no rear cupholders. A moonroof is not available, even as an option. The WRX should have the 6-speed from the STi, not the current 5-speed. There are no heated seats on U.S. models. Yet... they offer this incredibly expensive BBS wheel option!
They obviously cut some corners to keep costs down, yet on the other hand, they expect customers to cough up huge sums of money for items that shouldn't be that expensive. It just doesn't make sense.
Bob
That answer just doesn't wash. Why, on a price-sensitive vehicle like the Impreza, would you design two different sets of fenders, and two different suspensions? Subaru, over the years, has often made some excellent/smart "production" decisions. This, however is not one of them.
Bob
Regarding the moonroof, Subaru has crossbeam reinforcements in the roof where a moonroof would go. It is a tradeoff. You get a 250 percent rigidity increase which translates to better handling, but obviously you lose what many of us (myself included) like as an option.
Bob
Almost everywhere I've read, the engine below 3K rpm is "dead". In my current car (240sx), I change gears in the mid 3K-4K range. What would be the optimal range to change the gears in this car (under NORMAL driving)....thankx in advance
Go somewhere else, somewhere more isolated and less high-pressure who knows what theyre doing. Try Irvine, they might be ok... But they have a longer list.
PS, I dont know what you need to do about signing, but from what ive heard, you dont...
If you are in Culver City you might as well drive to Santa Monica Subaru. I visited there a few months ago before I moved away from LA. Although I didn't buy or negotiate with them. The sales rep (Abe?) is very courteous and fairly knowledgable about the car. Normal disclaimer applies: I have no affliation with any car dealer any where whatsoever.
One dealer around where I live now is taking $100 deposit refundable deposit for WRX at slightly below MSRP. No contract required for this. The other one is asking $3000+ ABOVE MSRP. Guess whom I wrote my check to?
Does anyone know if an Aero kit will be available for the wagon?
Is it confirmed that even with the 1 in narrower track that the 17's will fit the wagon? (Not the SOA BBS rims mind you, but maybe some nice rims I could get from the Tire rack or something like that)
You guys recommend premium gas for this rig??
Is this not the coolest car in the world?? I mean 113 hp/l, awd, Bimmer busting power.....I am just so durned excited!! Great community here guys, Best of luck to all of you waiting for your chariots!
Thanks for the input
DoctorNurse
The auto industry is driven more by supply and demand than the clothing industry. You don't see everyone rushing out at once to buy a new knit Polo shirt.
And if you think about wagon brands for example, Subaru is the only true Japanese premium wagon importer into the US. There is no Camry Wagon, Altima Wagon, Accord Wagon, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, etc (except Suzuki). The same for the sedan, there is no 25K awd Japanese compact sports sedan with 200+ hp. So in order to compare to other imports, they chose Audi and BMW. I think this comparison is fairly valid. The only problem I have is size. Both the sedan and wagon are considered sub-compact (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and are smaller than the 325ix and Audi A4 Quattro.
I have to see the car in person before I make a deposit, so I guess it's wait and see.
Sport wagons are proliferating....I noticed a new Protege wagon, an new IS300 wagon and a new Jetta wagon at the autoshow.
I'm considering the WRX wagon just because it's far more practical than a sedan which doesn't have a 60/40 folddown seat. A passthrough doesn't cut it these days. There is something inherently hilarious about a wagon that does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds. I know I'll be smiling when I drive this beast.
Stephen
I say if you can't afford the maintenance then go get an Echo or something. I am not directing this post to you dellwell. Your post brings up a good point since there are alot of ppl that wonders about that. Hope you see my point.
Stephen
Once a dealer buys the car from SOA (at a number below published INVOICE I expect) then they could care less how much the dealer sells it for. They won't make any more or less on the deal since the deal is done as far as they are concerned.
A salesperson can correct me if I'm worng, but I believe that is the way it works.
:-)
If mpg is a big concern, consider the RS instead. It burns regular and gets even better mileage. It also makes good low-end power.
ASC makes aftermarket moonroofs, so look into it if you're interested. I've had two installed and neither had any problems.
The WRX interior is greatly improved, at least if you're thinking of the current Impreza. The seats are fantastic - I'd love a set of those in my Forester. Plus you get side air bags and a CD changer - not exactly economy features. Even the rear seat is roomier. I'd say the wagon matches the A4 Avant there.
I think lots of folks will cross-shop BMW and Audi, actually. I know I would, if the wife wanted to replace her car. My critera would be AWD or RWD, wagon, a back seat, good power and handling, sub $30k price.
The problem is that forces me to compare the WRX to the 1.8T and 325xi, both nearly stripped.
We saw BMW motorcycles at their stand at the Baltimore Auto Show, and I kind of giggled when I read in their brochure that "the boxer engine carries its weight low in the chassis for an improved center of gravity and better balance." So BMW agrees about the advantages of a boxer layout!
ramon: finally saw one in person, eh?
BTW, there are accessory rear cup holders already on the market. In photos they look to be in the same place the Forester has them.
-juice
The seats are nice too. The big intercooler is el neato! It's so much business like unlike those Audis or bimmers having plastic covers all over the engine to make it pretty. Oh well.
My biggest disappointment is the new RS. It is a step back. Yes it has the new age design. But it is missing alot of stuff that the current RS has. Example : Rear LSD, sunroof, foglights, checkered seats (the new rs seats are ugly!), useless hoodscoops and vents to make it look fast.... I dunno. I was quite disappointed with the new RS line. The rest of the N/A Imprezas are good to go too.
I know for sure that future WRXs would built on top of this for sure! The new WRX are nice but there's still lots to be improved. I can see future WRXs coming with sunroofs, more hp, bigger brakes, wilder spoilers?, bi spoilers for WRX wagons etc.... bring 'em here Subaru!!!
WELCOME TO NORTH AMERICA WRX!!!! HAVE YOURSELF SOME MUSTANGS WHILE YOU'RE HERE!
The cup holder is for one cup, which is odd. The Forester fits two in the same size space. Guess they didn't need a 2nd, since there is one in the console, but I bought one for $12 IIRC from Darlene, so why not?
I thought the new RS had the rear LSD? Is it gone?
LOL! I didn't know Scoobies ate horses? ;-)
-juice
sadly the new RS will not have rear LSD. Only the new WRX. So in light of that.... nevermind. I'll annouce it next week at the Club's forum.
Bah, I never use the front cupholder. I always use the armrest one. Not like I ever drink anyways.
And FYI, they also list the manual RS sedan as $17,911 (18,995 MSRP)
So far, they've been very courteous and knowledgeable. And in response to my concerns of having to go all the up to Rochester from New York City and getting screwed with a sudden inflation in the invoice as we've discussed, the salesman offered to Fed Ex all paperwork to me here so I can get title to the car before I go up. Remember, I never put any money down, so I can't enforce a contract yet.
I'll keep you updated. Let's hope it all works out.