By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I think I'm going to take a hiatus from this Edmunds forum. I suspect it is probably me, but I miss the "old" days when this forum wasn't so petty and had a positive energy to it.
The Community Leader spot on this forum is up for grabs as of right now, and if anyone would like to volunteer to take my place please let KarenS know.
I'm sure that this post will either inspire flames or cause retrospect, but so be it. It will be without me. I will be continuing my work on LLSOC so if you need me you know where to find me at www.llsoc.com
Sincerely,
Brian
As for me, I think I'll hang out with Brian for awhile......
If Lincoln is listening in to this they might think serious LS owners are just as, if not more, concerned about "wud" and speakers than serious driving performance. And we wonder why we're seeing dealers adding garish tops or whitewall tires? Why bother with a 5- or 6-speed manual LS8 if they can tinker with the interior fabric, add new colors, or find another speaker supplier? Nothin' inherently wrong. That would be cheaper. But guess I'm in the minority that would rather see the LS end up more like a GS300/400 or 5 Series competitor than a Catera or Aurora or 300M competitor. Just hope LS isn't fated to end up like Mark VII/VIII; so much potential that never was truly brought to fruition.
Because we don't necessarily follow the dictates like sheep, we are the ones who are idiots? Some of us might be able to understand compromise and know that the future might hold better things than the present. We might also realize that the constant whining and phony bravado will not bring about changes that quickly.
Honesty can be a difficult thing to achieve. It should always be done with humility and without obfuscation. One man's honesty is another man's oppression, and it often times becomes difficult to know which is which.
Recent posts on all boards have shown that there is only one ideal way to go, and I don't subscribe to it.
Thinking happy thoughts
What a depressing thought!
Different types of vehicles meet different needs. You always give up something to get something else. We got our LS for long trips (with two people). Plenty of space for that. It is extremely comfortable and great fun to drive.
We have a '96 Taurus wagon for hauling and around town errands. It actually has more useable space than most SUVs. A lot of SUVs have quite a bit of height, but really don't have much length for storage, and they drive like (ug!) TRUCKS!
If you need a LOT of space, look at the vans.
IMHO, most SUVs have a VERY narrow functional range. If it fits your need, fine, but if you want broader functionality, a good station wagon gives more car-like ride with better handling and economy with very practical hauling space. Think about it.
I think SUVs are a bad fad.
I predict that with fuel prices getting higher, it won't be long before Detroit is forced to offer CVTees (Continuosly Variable Transmissions) in vehicles.
I went to a SAE toptec on CVT years ago (when I worked for another company). Back then they were touting a 10% fuel economy improvement over manual transmissions. CV trannys have one drawback (that I can think of); they are limited by the amount of torque they can transfer through their belt. There are Torroidal CV transmissions in industry that could handle more (I remember something like 700 N*m) that were being aimed at the truck market.
I don't know if any domestic manufacturer has plans to use one in production. Several Japanese companies already have (Subaru, Honda, Nissan). Over in Japan Nissan produces a 2.0L sportscar that has a CVT with three modes:
1. CVT mode (runs just like a snowmobile
2. Auto trans mimic mode
3. 7 speed *manual* mode (clutchless, of course)
If the U.S. started to put CV trannies into cars, we could have the best of ALL worlds - Better fuel economy, automatic function for city traffic, and a manual mode to squirt around canyon roads with. I would buy one in a heartbeat!
What's holding us back? Probably cost and durability concerns...
Also, as fuel prices continue to rise, we're going to be pushed far beyond the choice of a manual transmission to increase fuel economy (FE). There's not much of a difference between today's autos and manuals with respect to FE. What you're going to see is more alternate fueled vehicles popping up. Hybrid electric vehicles are already sold in the U.S. by Toyota and Honda. Ford announced that they will produce a hybrid version of the Escape (city FE about 45 mpg).
I think the current LS does about everything pretty well but isn't exceptional at any one thing. It is a compromise. One problem I see is that Lincoln doesn't really have a model to move up to. Other than more room, a Town Car or Continental will not do much that an LS can't do better. Eventually, like Giowa, I would like to see the LS focus on the same type of buyer that the GS300/400 does. I would also like to see the Continental more comparable with the LS 430, et al.
Bruce
My point is if you have vibration problems, it is not normal and there should be a remedy. They don't all do it!!
Bruce
As far a Jaguar is concerned, most of the car mags have favored the LS over the Jag S-type as far a chasis design is concerned, as well as overall passenger comfort. However, no one can argue that the S-type offers better engines. It's pretty hard to tell how Ford Motor Company plans to share their various platforms accross their various brands, but I would bet that you haven't seen or heard the last from the "new" Lincoln.
Patience.
Trunk Light:
I wired my directly to the factory trunk light. (Electricians would frown at how I did it...)
Tire Vibration:
I do experience a slight tire vibration for the first mile or so at speeds of 55/60 when driving after the LS has sat overnight. I believe the tires are just flattening slightly/out of round after sitting for a while. Not a problem!
Interesting take on the vibration problem. Before I test drove the car, my friend, who had been the shop foreman, told me that the tires take a flat spot after sitting overnight. What he was telling me was to ignore any initial tire vibration and assured me that it would go when they warmed up. I have an '00 V6 Sport and have never had any vibration problems at all. On certain road surfaces, there is a barely perceptible "nibble." I think this is more a function of the 50 series tires, the highly tactile steering on the LS and the chassis. Since it doesn't occur on all roads, I ignore it. Car is rock solid @ 90 mph. Haven't gone any faster. There's no place to do it where I generally drive.
That folding seat sure does come in handy at times doesn't it?
The Firestones (like many tires) have a nylon ply that help them achieve the speed rating. Nylon is notorious for thump and vibration until warmed up. I agree, gkarg, not a problem. Please don't anyone take offense at this but is it possible that some of these vibration concerns are simply the normal road feel of a stiff chassis, 50 series tires, and firm stabilizer bars?
Bruce
When I transport my daughter's stuff to and from college, we rent an Explorer. The only reason we can get away with this is that we can fold down the larger portion of the back seat. With the seats up, Rene is correct, there is not that much space back there. Unless of course, you are looking at Suburban, Expedition or Excursion. Also, with the SW, the gas mileage will be better and you won't be blocking anybody's view from behind. I was recently in Italy. It looked like 50% of the population was driving SW's. They are definitely making a comeback.
Just my .02. Good luck with whatever you decide on as well as with the new addition to your family.
Check out page 103 of the June 2001 issue of Road & Track. Story on '91-'99 Acura NSX. Excerpt: "Be sure the side windows go up and down. No electric gremlins here, just a little plastic part in the regulator that frequently breaks, causing the window to fall down. It's a $600 fix after it breaks. But for around $100 per window, including installation, you can make a pre-emptive repair using San Diego-based Dali Racings 'Window Regulator Fix-it Thingies.'"
1. Finally got the dealership to replace my front brake pads as they were squealing like a stuck pig every time I hit them. (Good News)
2. I worked the NY Auto Show and had a great time. It was interesting talking to customers about the LS and seeing the look on their faces after I gave my talk and then mentioned that I don't work for F/L but was a customer who thought a lot about the car.
3. I've been working w/ Jim Rogers and his staff about some other problems I've had (air flow from the dash when the heater is on floor only). Please know, from my personal experience, that Jim and his staff truly do care but are swamped with work and it is a typical 10-14 day turnaround before you hear from someone.
Joe
Early-build 2001 cars with build dates between July 2000 and the dates shown above have the next-to-latest software release; the only concern is a possible delayed downshift at 20 MPH. (I have one of these early-build '01 V8s, and I haven't noticed a delay, so I haven't had the update done--I haven't found it necessary.)
If you're buying a new or used 2000 model, you will probably want to have the software update done. For more detailed information, go to the Lincoln LS Owners Club site at http://www.llsoc.com and click on the Recalls/TSBs link. You'll find the TSB (technical service bulletin) number that designates the software update. Your dealer should be able to take it from there.
I think a Sport-equipped LS8 wagon with 300 horsepower and a much-improved stereo would be a killer vehicle. Several months ago someone posted a link to a computer-generated photo of an LS wagon, and it looked great to me. Assuming the handling dynamics wouldn't change, I would definitely consider buying such a car--the added utility would make it an extremely nice package. While I seriously doubt that Lincoln would ever consider an LS wagon, it's interesting to note that wagons appear to be high on Jaguar's list of possible future configurations. The Jag folks don't want to get into the SUV business, so a Jaguar Estate is a real possibility.
I did a round trip to Dallas over the weekend. With three adults and a full complement of luggage, my LS got 22.24 MPG on the return trip (running a fairly steady 78 on the Interstate); that's the best mileage I've seen so far. It was a very comfortable trip--the LS seats are great, and we had just enough room. Probably wouldn't have had enough space for another person, though. (Note to Artie: The roads here are no prize, either. I-35 is getting pounded by NAFTA trucks and LOTS of cars, and it's deteriorating badly.)
In Dallas, we added a couple of teenagers to the back seat for a dinner run. Fortunately, the restaurant was only about a 10-mile trip; the LS is NOT a five-passenger car, and I'm glad I was driving.
I tried to pay attention to any possible vibrations on the trip; didn't notice anything. After 8+ months and 9K miles, vibration has not been a problem for me.
Jim W
http://www.stationwagon.com/gallery/2000_Lincoln_LS_concept.html
Tom
Anyway, if you want a rock-solid SW that can carry a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood (with the back door slightly open), or 10 ft antenna sections and still hold 3 people, or 7 people with the optional pop-up rear facing kiddie seat, try to find a used 96-98 960/V90 wagon. Volvo has made the station wagon an art. No one sells more wagons as Volvo does as a % of its total sales. Between the sedan and the wagon, Volvo wagons enjoy higher resale value. These last Volvo RWD wagons have a straight-six designed by Porsche and an automatic built in Japan by Aisan, who has traditionally supplied Volvo with great automatics. Your mileage will be as good as a van, and the safety and comfort will be superior.
Because of an articulated hood hinge, you can get to any underhood component with ease.
It has distributorless ignition and plenty of room on both sides of the engine. You can probably get a low mileage 96 965 for less than 15k. My 965 is the truck in the family that the wife likes to drive.
Tom
If Lincoln's records don't indicate that the recall work was done, then from a legal standpoint the assumption would be that you haven't had it done. If a problem ever arose, the responsibility would be yours. Also, the dealer will know for sure whether your car is affected by the recall, and will have any factory parts that may be required.
With that in mind, here's the answer to your question (The following is copied verbatim from the November 2000 edition of the LLSOC newsletter):
"2. Recall Information
Owners of 2000/2001 LSs are being notified of a recall concerning possible improper torque settings for front ball joint nuts. The threshold torque limit is 59 ft/lbs. Any less and your ball joints will be replaced. Greater than 59 ft/lbs and a satisfactory inspection of the ball joints and they tighten the ball joint nuts to 111 ft/lbs. Contact your dealer to determine if your LS is involved in the recall. If it is you shouldn't have to wait for the letter from Lincoln before having it checked out."
You can find the NHTSA description of the recall by going to the LLSOC site at http://www.llsoc.com and clicking on the Recalls/TSBs link. The recall affects cars manufactured from August 1998 to September 2000.
Unfortunately, wagons are "out" and sport-utes are "in", so the Lincoln version of the Explorer will be the next thing to hit the showroom. I'm sure it'll be a nice vehicle, but I'd still rather see the 2003 LS SportWagon.
The article says that Mercedes Benz quality problems have resulted in about $1.5 billion in Mercedes Benz warranty payments in 2000 and a threefold hike in those costs in the past 2 years.
http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/mb508.htm
There were a couple of posts on vibrations and cold tires. My vibration is definately not a cold tire issue. I can feel the cold tire thumping for the first few miles. In this aspect again the Goodyears are much worse than the Firestones were. After 5 or so miles the cold thump goes away. The 71 MPH vibration I have gets worse the longer I drive and often takes 5 or 10 miles at highway speeds to start feeling it. Now suspect it is a tire or wheel roundness issue. Yesterday I tried coasting to a stop on a very smooth road. As the car slows down under 20 MPH I can feel the same sort of "lumpyness" that you get with warped rotors. Since the brakes weren't on I suspect I'm feeling the lack or round in one or more tires.
My experience with the LS and comparing it to other cars (one brother has a Cadillac Seville and another has a Lexus ES300) is that the LS is a very quiet car. Wind noise in mine is very low - lower than my brother's Caddy or Lexus. I have found the LS quieter in every way than Town Cars or Continentals which I often rent when on business trips.
I found the Firestone tires to be fine on smooth asphalt but noisy on concrete road surfaces. Many others on this board have not found them objectionable but I thought they sounded like bulldozer tracks if the road was a little rough. I replaced the tires with Michelins and I am very pleased with the result - huge improvement.
The V8 is very quiet - kind of like a musical hum. I can't speak for the V6. Due to the low wind, engine, and road noise, I tend to hear some alternator (or maybe torque converter) whine. I haven't found that objectionable at all - no car is completely silent. Most of my friends and co-workers who ride in the car for the first time remark about how quiet it is.
I would be interested in your thoughts on the LS versus Saab 9-5 after you drive both. I have a feeling we will be congratulating you on an LS purchase! :-)
Bruce
I did have the 51 MPH drone, but the halfshaft replacement quieted that. The suspension has developed a few "clunks", however that have me a bit annoyed.
Out of curiosity, I accessed the upper mounting bolts for the top of the rear shock/strut assemblies. I then checked the tightness of these six bolts using my calibrated torque wrench, and stopped tightening them when the tightest one from the factory "clicked" my wrench. The "clunk" from the rear is now gone.
I have a similar noise in the front end, and in the near future, I'm going to look for fasteners that may have loosened up over the last year.
One thing that has developed that is really annoying is a "creak" or "cracking" sound that comes from the door prop arm, on the driver's side. At first, I thought that the mechanisn had come loose or needed lubrication, but it was neither.
It appears that as door starts to close, and overcomes the detent in this prop arm, it causes the surrounding metal to flex , similar to an oilcan, causing the sound.
As a closing note, once again it's sad that some of the posters have decided to "de-participate" in this forum due to the politics of some of the others. IMHO, I realize that talking about speakers, wheels and tires, fake wud, and exhaust systems may bore some folks, but thanks to the changes in government regulations, along with closer control of manufacturing costs by the bean counters, that's about all that's left for an enthusiast to modify in his driveway.
Yes, I'm more than old enough to fondly remember the days when you could pick and choose from a selection of three 6's, four or five V-8's, three or four transmissions, and a host of rear axle ratios. Sadly for us, the small percentage of enthusiasts that populate the market, those choices are no longer available. Therefore, I don't see the logic in "debating" whether or not this car with this gear is fundamentally better that that car with some other gear. If what you want isn't available, call Steve Saleen, Kenny Brown, John Lingenfelter, etc, and maybe they can provide what you want. Unfortunately, in 2001, it's the only way you can legally get the "special" performance goodies. I'm not saying I like it this way, it's just the way it has become.
Hopefully, this forum can remain a friendly place for LS enthusiasts to interchange information, and maybe put aside the "shoulda', coulda', woulda'" debates.
There is a Technical Service Bulletin (# 00-03-04) for steering wheel vibration on the S. I would recommend that you ascertain whether the dealer is following the procedure. One step in the procedure is to replace the tires as necessary with certified tires that are available in a complete car set when calling an 800 number in the TB. This is not the normal procedure for a dealer to acquire tires to fix customer concerns, so if they go through their normal channels they will not get certified tires, and cannot probably get a complete car set.
Static and dynamic balancing is not the same as measuring the forces on a loaded tire. A tire/wheel can have good balance and still create a force (like a virtual high spot or flat spot), so the "road force" measurement does add incremental value to diagnosis. A good technician will often know to re-index the tire on the wheel, with an aim to align the high spot of the tire with the low spot of the rim. A measurement guides this process.
Has anyone who had the latest reflash noticed any improvement in the 2-3 upshift? My trannie is just about perfect in everyting (including time to engage reverse) but the 2-3 upshift, which is slow and sloppy, especially with low throttle.
As a sidenote to those who question whether or not a car has had this done, the dealer installed a tag on the inner fenderwell stating the upgrade date and number.
http://www.detnews.com/2001/autos/0105/09/b01-222057.htm
According to the article, it's called the "Lincoln Incentive Enhancement". I wonder if anyone noticed what the Three Letter Acronym (TLA) for this becomes? :>)
This particular tire swap would not suit everyone, though. I went from a 149 MPH speed rating to 118 and not everyone on this board would want to do that.
Bruce
Back at the light:
I made a small hole in the liner (once again - about 6 inches in from (above) the trunk latch, 18 inches from the left edge of the trunk liner - that way the light shines down when the lid is open.) I wired up the light to the wire and literally just used the screws to attach the light to the liner (I put nothing in the back to reinforce it.) It has not moved slam after trunk slam, but I haven't had to pack the trunk heavily yet, so I don't know if it will get knocked off, either. (I'll cross that bridge...) It shouldn't be a problem, as I mounted it inside that "valley."
I know these directions are not the best, but I didn't use any scientific method to install... I just did it and it works.. thank goodness!
As brucelinc said, the Firehawks are noisy on coarse pavement. Some people prefer the gentler ride of the non-Sport models; maybe they're quieter as well.
I've been lucky: no wind noise, clunks, or rattles as of 15k miles. My car passes my one "scientific" noise test. One of my favorite CDs is a collection of overtures by Rossini. I've never been able to play it in a car at high speed because the music goes back and forth from very quiet to very loud. I can listen to it comfortably in my LS at 80 mph. I call this the Rossini Test (patent not pending.)
Scott