My wife drives a TC, 1989 vintage, dual exhausts, 3:27 rear end. (By the way, she can't drive a manual trans, but even she can park it without calling the harbormaster.) After 120,000 miles, the car is rust free and as quiet as the day it was purchased. The suspension still gives the new car "thump" over bumps, much tighter than my 94 TBird with 80K. The 302 motor has never been apart and only uses one quart of oil between oil changes; however, the trans had to be replaced at about 100K. (I change the oil and filter myself every 3,000 miles.) Yes, it's not a performance sedan, and it's about as exciting to drive as watching toast burn, but it serves it's purpose. Will I buy another one? No, the kids are gone, I no longer need the land yacht status, and the new TC's (in my opinion) are not very attractive. But, when it dies, I know that there will be times (when heading for the Jersey shore) I will miss that trunk, load level suspension, and solid ride even after 12 years. RIP, TC.
rear wheel drive. It is said to feature a new continuously variable automatic transmission. It is not certain this gearless tranny will make it into the first models which will be at dealers in the spring of 2002 as a 2003 model.
Won't that be the same as a RWD Altima or G20? That car would be WAY too small. It sounds intriguing, but after the Civic that we had, I'll stick to good old American Iron! I bleed Ford blue!
Are you sure that's an Infiniti, at first glance it looks like a miniture Lexus I know the Japanese car manufacturers copy designs, but from each other?
After about 5 weeks I finally got my V-6 LS. It is a silver frost sport model with moon roof and heated seats. Dealership(Malouf Lincoln Mercury, North Brunswick, NJ) went of their way to find me my car. I originally ordered from the factory but I was told last week that they will not build it. I think it was too late in the year. I was offered the choice of ordering a 2002 but since the 2001 and 2002 are basically the same I went with the special financing and the free moon roof and cd player.
I called several Lincoln Mercury dealerships in central NJ and none had V-6 sports.(By the way Princeton ML has two V-6 manuals). I was told it would be impossible to find one. But Malouf found one in Allentown Pa about 70 miles away.
The car is well worth the wait. The handling is amazing. During my test drive the sales person told me to do 50 mph around a tight jug handle. The car handled like a dream.
Yep, an Alaska trip can be kind of spendy. A burger, fries, and a Bud runs about 12 bucks at any of the roadhouses. We paid $125 per night for a very rustic cabin near Denali National Park. With the constant daylight, sleeping is not easy, either.
By the way, during 11 days of cruising all over the state, I did not see one single LS. The ride of choice seems to be an F 150 4X4 pick-up.
Congratulations on your purchase of the Lincoln LS. You will be taking the "scenic" route everywhere you go now. I never had a car rack up so many miles so fast. You will find the service manager Don Crowder at Malouf very helpful and accommodating. Good luck and feel free to contact me with any questions.
Great, another fellow V6 Sport owner. Youll love the car, especially over time. The handling and balance of this car is its forte, whether V6 or V8. After 34,000 miles, I can still take corners and curves at absurd speeds. As long as I prepare myself for the curve beforehand, (slow before the curve, then gradually increase or maintain the speed in the apex, keeping the weight of the car balanced and poised, Im fine. Worst case, the car seems to enter a slight, controllable 4-wheel drift (with traction control off), which I can control via the gas pedal, or best case I leave the traction control on, and let it do the work, albeit more prematurely than I would do manually.
Question for you AdvanceTrac guys. I assume that as long as you enter a corner or curve at a controllable speed, you can then floor it all you want throughout the curve, and as soon as the AdvanceTrac detects rear or front wheel loss of traction, it goes into effect, saving the car, correct?
I recently attended a seminar on service/maintenance requirements put on for new car owners at the dealership where I purchased the car. In discussing oil change requirements, the service manager said Lincoln is going to certify 5W-20 as the oil choice for new cars. This brought a lot of questions from the group, especially about warranty since our owners manual specifies 5W-30. He said no problem if Lincoln "certifies" it. He said the reasons are: 1. Modern engines are tighter so they don't need the heavier oil at operating temperatures, 2. The thinner oil flows faster, thus cooling better, and 3. It will give about an extra 2 MPG. My suspicious nature says that Lincoln is more concerned about the 2MPG for CAFE than protecting the engine over the long haul. Any thoughts, especially from the Lincoln participants.
Our 2001 Taurus specifies 5W-20, too. I think everyone is going to that and Ford seems to be the first.
Oils are better than they used to be and tolerances are tighter, and there is likely a small MPG gain. No way will I believe 2 MPG, though! Are you sure they didn't mean 2/10ths of a MPG? Even that would be meaningful to CAFE.
I will use 5W-20 in our family Taurus but will stick with 5W-30 in the Lincoln. In warm weather, I just feel better about it, especially at 6500 RPM.
My LS8 Sport (build date 10/99, 26K miles), has flashed "Check Advancetrack" on the message center 3 times in the last two weeks. Pressing reset clears it. Has anyone had this happen?
just put another 500 miles on my LS driving to Columbus, OH this past weekend. Having 4 large adults and a carefully 'packed' trunk, the V6 (with mobil 1) performed much better this year than last. I now have 19,000 miles on my car. (and loving every minute of it!)
Even with all of that weight the engine was very quiet. I only really heard it a couple of times when I asked for all 210 horses to get movin' and they answered!
I actually saw 2 other LS's within a couple hundred feet of me on I-71 north. I passed the one silver one, but never caught the other (heavy traffic and everyone basically moving good.)
PS - Checked the oil after the trip and didn't use a drop since putting the Mobil 1 in at 15,000. Not to mention that it is a nice amber color. Dino oil would be black by 4,000 miles. I don't need any more proof than that.
PSS - Walmart is now selling Mobil 1 in 5 quart containers for about $18.
After months of lurking on this forum, I have finally gotten to the point where I need some information/advice. I have a 2001 LS V8 Sport with 8.5K miles. Just this past weekend, the famous rock to the windshield got me and now I have a very nice crack. The furum hated dealership here in Austin, TX is quoting me $1900.00 for a replacement. This seems quite outragous to me. I know this has beeen discussed before on the forum, but I cannot seem to find the data. Is $1900 correct, or am I getting ripped off? Are there other glass dealers who can replace the Lincoln glass for cheaper? Any recommendations? Two other Nits in the car I will mention while I am here, a buzzing from the engine compartment (near the throttle?) most noticable when the AC is on and the radio (sport alpine) does not seem to want to switch DSP speaker modes (Back seat/Front Seat/Driver) anymore. Anyone else see this? Other than that, GREAT car!!
You may very well be right, I have no idea where it fits in the Infiniti line-up. What got my attention was the new rear wheel drive platform based on a concept model they brought out in 1999.
That is the price that my insurance company told me. On a whim I asked what the windscreen cost. When she told me $1900 I almost fell out of my chair! It is a good thing that I have $0 deductible on comprehensive! Your insurance should cover the windshield. If the crack is small enough they may want to "patch" it. They tried on mine and it didn't work. The windshiedl had to be replaced. Here's the rub. My insurance company (USAA) paid the glass company (Safelite, I think) $130 for the replacement! Makes me wonder about the $1900! They did say that the glass had to come from the factory (mine still has the Lincoln logo imbedded) and the reason that they paid so little was due to the volume of work they do.
As to the radio. I had a radio issue from Day 1. The radio said that the controls were malfunctioning when it was the radio that was confused. I would have them check the radio as well as the function switch. Does the DSP work in the other modes? If so it may be the radio.
I've had my windsheild repaired 3 times during the past two years. My insurance company (MetLife) actually PAYS ME $50 in addition to paying for the repair. I've used Safelite autoglass for the last two repairs. The last time, I inquired to what a replacement windshield would cost, and I was quoted $800. The technician also told me that if I had to get a replacement during the winter months, the price would be even cheaper (particularly if you "shop around") because the auto glass business is seasonal with summer being the peak season.
The next time I take a stone, I'll be pursuing a replacement windsheild due to the number of repairs I've already had done. By the way, I live in Tempe, Arizona.
3261: Sometimes I can get a little slide without advancetrac coming on. If you accelerate in the turn it will slide without activating. I guess it all depends how much you want to slide, once activated however you are just along for the ride. One thing I noticed is that it does this better with older tires and hot summer days. Love my LS
I bought a new Lincoln AS V6, loaded. I cannot tell you how excited I was since I had been researching this vehicle for over a year. The dealership did a PI on it when it arrived and called me to pick it up. I got three blocks down the road and the ABS, Tram and brakes lights all came on. I limped back to the dealership and now it looks like there is some sort of processor problem. I am a former Saturn owner and could not wait to get into a performance/luxury vehicle. I did not expect to have these kinds of issues with a car like this. Has anyone else had any problems with their new car?
Congratulations on your new car, Dixie! Please don't let a little glitch spoil your enjoyment of the LS. You made a great choice. What happened to your car could have just as easily happened to a $200,000 Rolls Royce. I am sure your dealer will take care of it and you can enjoy a great luxury/sport sedan.
I have about 33,000 miles on mine and they are the most enjoyable miles I have ever driven.
Congrats also. When you consider that most cars now have 10 or more separate computer control modules, there are bound to be some issues that get past the outgoing quality. That is what warranties help to compensate for. Yeah, an inconvience, but needed otherwise if a manufacturer didn't need them, they would not offer it, of course, that car would be super expensive because of all the quality testing they would need to do before it hit the streets.
I had similar issues in my Ford Taurus, but he warranty fixed them all the and dealer I had was very helpful. Hopefully, you get the same experience from your dealer. It is just a shame you had to test out the service department before you got to test out your car. Sorry for your incovenience. Hope you get your car back soon though.
I wouldn't worry about it too much, as long as they can fix it in a reasonable amount of time. Seems every car, or almost every car, has some tweaking needed by the dealer. Heck, even Rolls Royce. Just recently the news reported that a brand new, $250K Corniche convertible blew up after being filled with the first tank of gas and when the dealer mechanic prepping the car pushed the power window button!!! Problem with evaporative emmission controls allowed it to vent into the interior, and the window switches arc when they are used (great design). Blew out the interior, destroyed the roof, but fortunately only caused minor injuries for the driver and another mechanic standing outside near the car.
My initial problems with my 2000 V8 LS Sport were a failure of the cooling fan hydraulic pump a couple of weeks into ownership (rare problem), a scraped leather wheel they replaced at the same time (noticed at purchase but planned to get replaced later when it needed something else done), radio just went out, and they went through the usual change the controls to find out it's the radio, and one headlight has just started fogging up. This between now and Oct 2, 2000. Annoying, true, but none has repeated itself, it's been fixed right the first time, and not that bad for 9 months. Other than these it's performed flawlessly, none of the other problems that some have noted. I think the car is pretty reliable, but there may be some initial build issues that need corrected.
I can understand your frustration and disappointment though, on the way home no less! But, give the car a chance, I think once these problems are behind you you'll love the car. I really get a kick out of watching yuppies or Gen whatevers in their BMWs run off the road trying to keep up with me in the corners. Yes the LS handles that well, but having had loads of experience driving tail happy Mustangs vs. a Honda Civic probably helps too. ;-) The handling on the LS is so good I can confidently put the tail wherever I want it, with no drama or instability, and the ride is so smooth the handling comes as a shock, I'm used to overly stiff muscle cars that lack the suspension sophistication of the LS.
Hope you get your problems fixed, keep us informed about what happens, might help someone here if they have a similar problem.
Hang in there, it will be well worth it. No mass-produced products of any kind can be 100% defect-free, be it Mercedes or Tinkertoys. Modern electronics, sophisticated as they are, still have a somewhat high "infant mortality rate". For the money, you've got the best combination of luxury and performance on the planet.
Wow, stepped up from a Saturn! I traded up from a Subaru Legacy eight months ago and I'm still a little light-headed.:) Congratulations. You're gonna love it.
Congrats on a very wise purchase. Dont worry, I can almost assure you the dealer will fix your minor electrical problem in a decent amount of time, and the problem may never rear its head again. Several of us here on this board have the V6 LS loaded like yours, and we all love it. The V6 Duratec engine is quite smooth, competetive with the competition's V6's, and extremely reliable. The handling on this car, especially for its size, is incredible. Many may argue about the V8 vs V6 LS, and every other aspect of the LS, but one thing I have NEVER heard a quibble or argument is about the LS's handling. Awesome, and definitely in the league with BMW sedans.
This is slightly off-topic, but with the windshield repair discussion, I must relate this story.
A co-worker has GEICO insurance, the company that brought you the anti-radar detector funding. He gets a mailer encouraging customers to have windshields repaired instead of replaced, if possible. They make a big deal out of offering to pay the cost of the repairs if customers will avail themselves of this service. In a year's time he had 2 repairs each done on his 2 cars. The other day he gets a letter from GEICO telling him that they are canceling his zero deductible glass coverage due to frequency of claims. First he calls the glass repair co. to ask what the cost of the repair is if he was to pay out of pocket. It's $42.00! And who knows what GEICO pays. So for the lousy grand total of $168.00, that he would have laid out $42 at a time, he's now on the hook if he has to replace a windshield. Had he known this, he never would have submitted the claims. The letter doesn't even say if this is indefinite or for a finite time period. This is after they encourage their customers with promotional mailers.
He called them, absolutely furious. They have reconsidered and reinstated his $0 deductible glass coverage. What a magnanimous gesture!
"O.K. here is the clincher... The windshields for the LS cost about $14 Dollars to make. Talk about profit...."
Now, how could you possibly know that? I'm sorry, but I know that this type of information is very closely held in large corporations so I have to question how anyone could state this with certainty. The thought that this fairly large piece of glass could be manufactured for $14 boggles the mind. Maybe the raw materials that go into the glass alone might be that, but when you factor in R&D, tooling, etc, it can't be. Sorry, I don't believe you, although it is the type of statement that could be very amusing and effective at a cocktail party or pub.
I bought my LS off the lot and when I fired it up for a test drive the windshield wipers, power mirrors and several other things didn't work. The dealer brought out a tech who fixed it in less than 15 minutes, said one of the control modules (I assume really some sort of relay) wasn't properly plugged in. The quick diagnosis and fix probably make the sale. 18 months later I have not had any electrical problems. Now if they could get my seatbelt to retract all the time and finally get my tire / wheel vibration fixed I'd be a fully satisfied customer.
Look I am sorry but I wouldn't think whoever told me is considering sunk costs, tooling or anything like that... The Cost is approximately $14 per windshield. As you very well know you never ask how someone found out something or for their source. Let me just say that this is approximately the per unit cost. Let me also just say I heard it from the horses mouth....
Second of all I don't like your tone and as such I don't care what you think, but anyway. You are right though it is interesting to hear and it would be interesting cocktail party chatter but it is also the reality... I gave that as a point of reference for everyone on this board. Others on this board would know that I would not say something that is untrue. Also if you have more accurate data please let me know.
Now if you think it is so far fetched why don't you think about how much it takes to make Nike shoes and how much they charge. Come on think about it. What about 16 o.z. of Bottled water for over a Dollar. Stop being ignorant and realize that in American business you charge what the "Market will bear"(at least you should).. (unless if you are regulated of course). Your an attorney Joe, for God Sakes attornies charge an Arm and a Leg, you know what I am talking about......
By the Way Glass is composed primarily of SAND as their Raw Material, that is how it can be made very cheaply.
Regards, Airwolf1000
P.S. Instead of telling me you don't believe me and insulting my intelligence you can ask nicely instead of saying "Now how can you possibly know that"? By the way I know the same way most people on this board know more about the LS than their dealer, I talk to knowledgeable people on the subject matter.
Remember you get more with honey than you do with vinegar..
You may have mentioned this before but I can't recall. Has your dealer tried swapping the wheels/tires from another LS - one from his stock that you have driven and confirmed no vibration? I am curious if your vibration is tire/wheel or if it could be driveshaft.
There should be a remedy for your vibration issue.
I'm surprised the cost is $14! I would have thought the cost would have been less. Being in cost accounting (for over 20 years) for various manufactures, you sometimes wonder how a component could cost so little, but the sell price of the finished good is so high. Tooling and research are significant costs especially with an automobile, but my guess where an even more significant cost factor may be is in other overhead expenses as well as G & A costs.
You said "cost $14 dollars TO MAKE" and implied that anything more than that is profit. That $14 would therefore have to include not only raw materials but also production costs and overhead. Now I might believe that the raw materials only cost $14, but that's not what you said. You said "unit cost". So don't jump all over Joe for questioning such a statement. I'm not questioning that there may be a huge markup involved. But $14 unit cost is extremely hard to believe given the manufacturing process that is required.
Just checked the Tirerack site and the cost for the P235/50VR17 Firehawk LH's is down to $82 per tire. Ordered a set and will put them on when the OE's are done. Have 35,000 on them now and they look like another 5-10K. Mostly highway cruising miles!
I know that when I took my car in for balancing after going to the wider tires and wheels that it had to be balanced twice, even with the Hunter road force balancer, at the same tire store. Turns out the LS appears to be extremely sensitive to discrepancies in wheel imbalance, even as little as 1/4 of an ounce, which mine ended up being on one wheel. This was enough to start a vibration in the car at around 60mph. Once they did the second rebalance and took more time to optimize everything the vibration went away.
Now imagine how much the side windows cost.... I am sure much less... I didn't ask though.... By the way at the probable expense of sounding ignorant... What is G & A . I would assume the A is for Advertising? I would rather learn...
Ouch! And I was still pretty pleased with myself for buying them at $106 week before last. I bought for the future, also. Let's see, I'll almost surely replace tires a second time, there's plenty of room in the basement, hmmm.
How's this from the ex"Ultimate Driving Machine"? And they saw German engineering is the best? BTW Lufthaunsa flys Boeings!
530i Air Conditioner
1, too, have been disappointed with the poor performance of the air conditioner on my 530i. One problem I have noted is that on exceptionally humid days condensation drips onto the carpeting. I first assumed that the drain was clogged, but when I consulted my shop manual I was surprised to find that there is no drain. Condensation from the evaporation coil (under the dash) apparently accumulates in the bottom of the evaporator housing until it overflows.
I believe that installation of a drain hose would improve the efficiency of the air conditioner, since this moisture would be removed from the passenger compartment, rather than being continuously recycled through the unit.
This was copied from the BMW club web site under tech info.
In my new MCM Electronics catalog flyer, a 5x7 "Ford" (I guess that to mean Philco) car speaker, similar to the LS whizzer cone 5x7, was offered for $2.50. Makes me wonder...
brucelinc: Before I launch into a tirade on my vibration problem I'll give you a direct answer. Yes I have very specifically asked my dealer to swap tires with another LS and to let me take it for a test drive. I also asked them to take a LS off the lot ant take it for a test drive with me and their service manager and then take my LS for a test drive with him. I did get the shop foreman to take a ride with me in my LS and he did agree that there was a vibration. He thought that it probably was a tire or a wheel. I tend to think that its tire or wheel related because sometimes I feel the vibration in the steering wheel and usually the longer I drive at highway speeds the worse the vibration gets and the vibration can be felt at lower road speeds. Here're where my frustration really gets going. No, I don't believe they ever swapped tires because I've been unable to get a straight answer as to whether they've done that or not. It has been frustrating dealing with their service department because they want it to operate like a black hole. You go in and tell the service writer what the symptom is and in their minds you pick up the car repaired to their satisfaction. They don't want to hear anything about TSB's or where the problem may be. They seem to have the attitude of the customer knows nothing. To add more frustration, one of the 5 times I had my LS back for the vibration complaint I picked it up after hours. With the service department closed they leave the keys with the salespeople. While someone got my keys I was talking with one of the salesmen and he asked me how I liked my LS. My answer was "I like it a lot, I'd probably love it if your (service) guys could ever solve my vibration problem." His next comment was "Well have they swapped tires & wheels with another LS, that would be the first thing I'd try". I'm particularly cranked up on my LS's vibration because it has always been worse the hotter the temperature is. After 100 miles in 95 degree temperatures yesterday and the vibration really bad I'm aggravated. I'm aggravated that I've had my LS back to the dealer 5 times without a resolution. The tires have been re-balanced and rotated 3 times. On the 4th try the FireHawks were replaced with these absolutely horrible GoodYear tires (very noisy, poor on center feel and completely un-drivable in even a 1/4" of snow). Again I would have liked to be in the service loop so if I had known that they would be replacing the tires I could have offered to pay some money to get good tires instead of the $64 a tire junkers that they put on. I had Jim Rogers' very nice assistant involved who got the local Lincoln field engineer to test drive my LS and concluded that "All vibrations and noises are within specification". It's nice to know that Lincoln has a specification as to how bad a vibration can be and still be acceptable. I'm further aggravated because after the engineers test drive, my dealer now considers the case closed . They have referred me to the local Lincoln regional manager who does not return my phone calls. I'm also aggravated that I tried calling another dealer to have them take a crack at it, but they don't want to get involved. I'm aggravated that I've already wasted so much time and had such a hassle trying to get some level of satisfaction. My personality leans to avoiding conflict so as of now I don't plan on ever taking my LS to the dealer I got it from for any form of service. When my lease is up in 20 months I doubt that I'll return to that dealer and I doubt that I will consider a FoMoCo product again.
So sorry to read about your frustrating tire vibration/dealer problem. Once again the lack of dealer knowledge and willingness to do it right is apparent at LM/Ford. Too bad you can't dump the LS right now and get into something you like. Seriously, you should look at a BMW next time. They may cost more but at least the dealers know how to treat their customers! Ford is just now coming out of the "Dealer Dark Ages"!
Sorry if I opened up a wound! As a former wrench-twister, shop owner, and tire dealer (with some training by FOMOCO), it just troubles the heck out of me when I hear about vibrations or other "incurable" maladies. Did they put GT + 4 Goodyears on your car? If so, that was not a really spiffy choice.
I understand the desire to avoid conflict, and the Field Engineer's conclusion is troubling, BUT I would appeal that to a higher authority if I were you. You may have to get more directly involved. I know some dealers want to keep the Service Dept. a "black hole" but you may have to be pleasantly persistent. I agree you should be in the loop on exactly what was and was not done. Have you had a sit-down meeting with the owner or GM of the dealership? Any follow-up with JRs assistant?
As bad as the Goodyears are, if the vibration is exactly the same with them as with the Firestones, you may have a wheel, or driveline problem. In any event, I think you deserve some help from higher up the Corporate food chain.
I sure hope someone takes a crack at this for you!
brucelink & jackit thanks for the comments. In regards to the questions. 1. Yes the dealer put them (the Goodyears) on without letting me know what they were doing. Again the black hole service department mentality. They (The Goodyears) are horrible cheap tires, if I remember right they were $64 on tirerack. I can't find them on tirerack now. A friend of mine bought an Chevy Impalla LS (yes and Impalla LS) which came with Eagel GT+4 tires. They are so noisy on his Impalla he took it back to the dealer thinking he had a bad wheel bearing. He also tries not to drive his FWD Impalla in the snow because the tires are so bad. 2. I was told pretty firmly by the dealer service manager that there was nothing else they could or would do that my path of recourse was with the Lincoln regional manager, that is the one I gave up on after leaving 3 voice mails. 3. I did consider a BMW but desided it was too much extra. A reasonably equiped 328, which is way too small was more than the LS-8. Even one year old "executive" 528s were more. In hindsight, as they say, you get what you pay for, although I never had a vibration problem of any sort with 18 different company car Taurus's. I guess Ford knows how to make cheap cars, they just haven't figured out how to make expensive ones. 4. It's been many years I used to turn wrenches. I'm just an amateur now doing the less messy jobs on my cars. My best guess it the problem is wheel, tire or driveshaft or worse yet a combination of them. The strange thing about the vibration is that its frequency does not change with road speed, nor what gear you are in. It is stronger at some speeds, 71 & 80 MPH when the car / weather is cold. When the weather is hot and after a long drive it is stonger and can be felt down 55 MPH. I suspect that something, wheel, tire, driveshaft is exciting a natural resonance in some part of the LS which is why the vibration doesn't change freqency with road speed. Rotating the tires seems to move the vibration somewhat between the front & rear of the car, which makes me suspect a wheel. Based on some of my long ago wrenching I'm suspicious that the extreme wheel offset makes any wheel / tire imperfections more noticable. I've heard there are lots of similar complaints with the Jag S-type. It's pretty frustrating to read posts from other participants telling stories about how the dealer had a spectrum analyzer, determined the vibration frequency and fixed it right away with a drive shaft weight. At least there are some competent dealers out there. I found a MK-VIII site that sold single piece driveshafts for MK-VII's. Apparantly there have veen driveshaft vibration problems with the OEM 2 piece MK-VIII driveshaft. Could be my problem too, but it's kink of hard for me to correctly diagnose the root casue of the problem. My next crack at the problem will be to take it to someone with a Hunter and see if they find anything, although I hate to have to pay for what should be warranty work. Also, at least to me, the best test to make would still be swapping tires & wheels with another LS. 5. The whole Lincoln engineer thing was a fiasco. My expectation was that I would take my LS in for a test drive with him. Insead my LS sat at the dealer for a week before he drove it. Concluding with "your car is fixed, come get it" As usual with this dealer you're handed a receipt and your kees at the cashier and it's up to you to read it and figure out what they did or did not do. My receipt says the following: "customer states: vibration and audible rumble...... Test drove vehicle for about 20 minutes, Was not able to determine any vibration or noise that could be considered abnormal. Advise no further rapairs at this time. Steve Siefert (Field Service Engineer) Ford, Lincoln, Mercury Customer Service Division."
Brian: I like your "How To" section on the LLSOC site. A couple of comments that I hope will help: 1. On the Cabin Air Filter Replacement section two notes. On my LS there are 6 retainers on the cowl cover not 5. The 6th attaches to the plastic trim on the base of the A pillar. Also there are little retainer clips molded on the filter on both ends of it. 2. On the Engine Air Filter replacement. I just did battle with it, one of the more tricky ones to learn how to do. I think I have a little bit better procedure that doesn't require removing the filter box base.: 1. Open the Hood. 2. Locate the plastic cover at the very front of the LS that covers the radiator. Remove the 4 retainer clips by unscrewing them and then removing all 4 retainers from the plastic cover. Remove the plastic cover by sliding it forward. Removing this cover give you a little more room to maneuver the air box cover and makes it much easier so see the tongues and slots when replacing the air box cover. 3. Locate the hose clamp that connects the air filter cover to the air inlet duct and loosen it. Just loosen the clamp, don't remove it. 4. On the V8, remove the engine cover, the one that says "Lincoln V8" by carefully pushing down the 2 plastic retainers on the driver's side. Remove the retainers so you don't accidentally drop them into the cramped engine compartment. Remove the engine cover by pulling it straight up paying attention to the 3rd rubber retainer that is just pulls straight off the stud below it. Removing the engine cover makes it easier to move the air box cover and inlet duct. 5. Open the air filter box cover by pushing in on the snap fasteners. Lift the rear side of the air filter cover (the side with the snap fasteners) up about 1" so the fasteners clear the air filter element and air box base. Next slide the cover towards the front of the LS about 1" so that the side on tongues on the front of the air box base are cleared. Then lift the whole cover (still connected to the engine air duct) up and towards the rear of the LS exposing the air filter element. 6. Check for any dirt sand or debris in the air box base and clean if necessary. 7. Remove the old filter element simply by lifting it out. Replace the air filter with either a Motorcraft FA-1679 or a K&N high performance filter element. 8. Bring the top cover back down and forward, moving it 1" past the air box base again keeping the rear of the cover up at about a 30 degree angle. Use your work light or a flashlight) to be able to see the tongues on the front of the air box base. Lower the cover and slide it back making sure all of the tongues engage in the cover slots. This will work best if the rear of the cover is tilted up to clear the snap fasteners. Once the tongues are engaged pivot the cover down and lock the snap fasteners. 9. Re tighten the engine air inlet duct hose clamp. 10. Replace the Engine Cover. First locate the push on rubber retainer and push it straight down over the stud it attaches to . Then insert the 2 push pin fasteners on the LS V8. Be carful to gently push the retainers down until they are just flush. 11. Replace the front radiator cover by locating it forward and then sliding it in under the engine air duct. Replace the 4 cover fasteners. 12. Don't be an idiot like the guy in the Fram oil filter ads and wash you hands before you close the hood, eat a sandwich or pat your wife on the but.
FWIW - I suspect the front end on your particular vehicle just happened to go together in such a way as to magnify the instantaneous rolling resistance phenomena you experience with certain tires. This in no way says anything is defective or out of spec...you just happened to be one of the unlucky ones where everything comes together in the wrong way and conspires against you. Assuming there is no actual mechanical defect, and the vibration you are experiencing is more like a shaking back and forth of the steering wheel, trust me, you won't get the problem fixed by switching from one set of tires mfg by Firestone or Goodyear to another unless you are incredibly lucky (you'd be more likely to win the Irish sweepstakes). The only way that problem is going to be fixed is by fitting a set of Michelins (or other tires mfg via the sectional mold process rather than the clamshell mold).
Comments
After 120,000 miles, the car is rust free and as quiet as the day it was purchased. The suspension still gives the new car "thump" over bumps, much tighter than my 94 TBird with 80K.
The 302 motor has never been apart and only uses one quart of oil between oil changes; however, the trans had to be replaced at about 100K. (I change the oil and filter myself every 3,000 miles.)
Yes, it's not a performance sedan, and it's about as exciting to drive as watching toast burn, but it serves it's purpose.
Will I buy another one? No, the kids are gone, I no longer need the land yacht status, and the new TC's (in my opinion) are not very attractive. But, when it dies, I know that there will be times (when heading for the Jersey shore) I will miss that trunk, load level suspension, and solid ride even after 12 years. RIP, TC.
rear wheel drive. It is said to feature a new continuously variable automatic transmission. It is not certain this gearless tranny will make it into the first models which will be at dealers in the spring of 2002 as a 2003 model.
I called several Lincoln Mercury dealerships in central NJ and none had V-6 sports.(By the way Princeton ML has two V-6 manuals). I was told it would be impossible to find one. But Malouf found one in Allentown Pa about 70 miles away.
The car is well worth the wait. The handling is amazing. During my test drive the sales person told me to do 50 mph around a tight jug handle. The car handled like a dream.
I am taking the "scenic" route home today.
By the way, during 11 days of cruising all over the state, I did not see one single LS. The ride of choice seems to be an F 150 4X4 pick-up.
Bruce
Tom...
Question for you AdvanceTrac guys. I assume that as long as you enter a corner or curve at a controllable speed, you can then floor it all you want throughout the curve, and as soon as the AdvanceTrac detects rear or front wheel loss of traction, it goes into effect, saving the car, correct?
Oils are better than they used to be and tolerances are tighter, and there is likely a small MPG gain. No way will I believe 2 MPG, though! Are you sure they didn't mean 2/10ths of a MPG? Even that would be meaningful to CAFE.
I will use 5W-20 in our family Taurus but will stick with 5W-30 in the Lincoln. In warm weather, I just feel better about it, especially at 6500 RPM.
Bruce
Even with all of that weight the engine was very quiet. I only really heard it a couple of times when I asked for all 210 horses to get movin' and they answered!
I actually saw 2 other LS's within a couple hundred feet of me on I-71 north. I passed the one silver one, but never caught the other (heavy traffic and everyone basically moving good.)
PS - Checked the oil after the trip and didn't use a drop since putting the Mobil 1 in at 15,000. Not to mention that it is a nice amber color. Dino oil would be black by 4,000 miles. I don't need any more proof than that.
PSS - Walmart is now selling Mobil 1 in 5 quart containers for about $18.
I love my LS!
As to the radio. I had a radio issue from Day 1. The radio said that the controls were malfunctioning when it was the radio that was confused. I would have them check the radio as well as the function switch. Does the DSP work in the other modes? If so it may be the radio.
The next time I take a stone, I'll be pursuing a replacement windsheild due to the number of repairs I've already had done. By the way, I live in Tempe, Arizona.
I have about 33,000 miles on mine and they are the most enjoyable miles I have ever driven.
Bruce
I had similar issues in my Ford Taurus, but he warranty fixed them all the and dealer I had was very helpful. Hopefully, you get the same experience from your dealer. It is just a shame you had to test out the service department before you got to test out your car. Sorry for your incovenience. Hope you get your car back soon though.
My initial problems with my 2000 V8 LS Sport were a failure of the cooling fan hydraulic pump a couple of weeks into ownership (rare problem), a scraped leather wheel they replaced at the same time (noticed at purchase but planned to get replaced later when it needed something else done), radio just went out, and they went through the usual change the controls to find out it's the radio, and one headlight has just started fogging up. This between now and Oct 2, 2000. Annoying, true, but none has repeated itself, it's been fixed right the first time, and not that bad for 9 months. Other than these it's performed flawlessly, none of the other problems that some have noted. I think the car is pretty reliable, but there may be some initial build issues that need corrected.
I can understand your frustration and disappointment though, on the way home no less! But, give the car a chance, I think once these problems are behind you you'll love the car. I really get a kick out of watching yuppies or Gen whatevers in their BMWs run off the road trying to keep up with me in the corners. Yes the LS handles that well, but having had loads of experience driving tail happy Mustangs vs. a Honda Civic probably helps too. ;-) The handling on the LS is so good I can confidently put the tail wherever I want it, with no drama or instability, and the ride is so smooth the handling comes as a shock, I'm used to overly stiff muscle cars that lack the suspension sophistication of the LS.
Hope you get your problems fixed, keep us informed about what happens, might help someone here if they have a similar problem.
Wow, stepped up from a Saturn! I traded up from a Subaru Legacy eight months ago and I'm still a little light-headed.:) Congratulations. You're gonna love it.
I had in a couple of times and got a LS loaner
Good luck with new LS
A co-worker has GEICO insurance, the company that brought you the anti-radar detector funding. He gets a mailer encouraging customers to have windshields repaired instead of replaced, if possible. They make a big deal out of offering to pay the cost of the repairs if customers will avail themselves of this service. In a year's time he had 2 repairs each done on his 2 cars. The other day he gets a letter from GEICO telling him that they are canceling his zero deductible glass coverage due to frequency of claims. First he calls the glass repair co. to ask what the cost of the repair is if he was to pay out of pocket. It's $42.00! And who knows what GEICO pays. So for the lousy grand total of $168.00, that he would have laid out $42 at a time, he's now on the hook if he has to replace a windshield. Had he known this, he never would have submitted the claims. The letter doesn't even say if this is indefinite or for a finite time period. This is after they encourage their customers with promotional mailers.
He called them, absolutely furious. They have reconsidered and reinstated his $0 deductible glass coverage. What a magnanimous gesture!
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010626/bs/autos_unitedauto_dc_3.html
Talk about profit....
Regards,
Airwolf1000
Talk about profit...."
Now, how could you possibly know that? I'm sorry, but I know that this type of information is very closely held in large corporations so I have to question how anyone could state this with certainty. The thought that this fairly large piece of glass could be manufactured for $14 boggles the mind. Maybe the raw materials that go into the glass alone might be that, but when you factor in R&D, tooling, etc, it can't be. Sorry, I don't believe you, although it is the type of statement that could be very amusing and effective at a cocktail party or pub.
Second of all I don't like your tone and as such I don't care what you think, but anyway. You are right though it is interesting to hear and it would be interesting cocktail party chatter but it is also the reality... I gave that as a point of reference for everyone on this board. Others on this board would know that I would not say something that is untrue. Also if you have more accurate data please let me know.
Now if you think it is so far fetched why don't you think about how much it takes to make Nike shoes and how much they charge. Come on think about it. What about 16 o.z. of Bottled water for over a Dollar. Stop being ignorant and realize that in American business you charge what the "Market will bear"(at least you should).. (unless if you are regulated of course). Your an attorney Joe, for God Sakes attornies charge an Arm and a Leg, you know what I am talking about......
By the Way Glass is composed primarily of SAND as their Raw Material, that is how it can be made very cheaply.
Regards,
Airwolf1000
P.S. Instead of telling me you don't believe me and insulting my intelligence you can ask nicely instead of saying "Now how can you possibly know that"? By the way I know the same way most people on this board know more about the LS than their dealer, I talk to knowledgeable people on the subject matter.
Remember you get more with honey than you do with vinegar..
There should be a remedy for your vibration issue.
Bruce
BTW - $14 dollars is redundant.
Brian
By the way at the probable expense of sounding ignorant... What is G & A . I would assume the A is for Advertising? I would rather learn...
Regards,
Airwolf1000
And they saw German engineering is the best? BTW Lufthaunsa flys Boeings!
530i Air Conditioner
1, too, have been disappointed with the poor performance of the air conditioner on my 530i. One problem I have noted is that on exceptionally humid days condensation drips onto the carpeting. I first assumed that the drain was clogged, but when I consulted my shop manual I was surprised to find that there is no drain. Condensation from the evaporation coil (under the dash) apparently accumulates in the bottom of the evaporator housing until it overflows.
I believe that installation of a drain hose would improve the efficiency of the air conditioner, since this moisture would be removed from the passenger compartment, rather than being continuously recycled through the unit.
This was copied from the BMW club web site under tech info.
I understand the desire to avoid conflict, and the Field Engineer's conclusion is troubling, BUT I would appeal that to a higher authority if I were you. You may have to get more directly involved. I know some dealers want to keep the Service Dept. a "black hole" but you may have to be pleasantly persistent. I agree you should be in the loop on exactly what was and was not done. Have you had a sit-down meeting with the owner or GM of the dealership? Any follow-up with JRs assistant?
As bad as the Goodyears are, if the vibration is exactly the same with them as with the Firestones, you may have a wheel, or driveline problem. In any event, I think you deserve some help from higher up the Corporate food chain.
I sure hope someone takes a crack at this for you!
Bruce
1. Yes the dealer put them (the Goodyears) on without letting me know what they were doing. Again the black hole service department mentality. They (The Goodyears) are horrible cheap tires, if I remember right they were $64 on tirerack. I can't find them on tirerack now. A friend of mine bought an Chevy Impalla LS (yes and Impalla LS) which came with Eagel GT+4 tires. They are so noisy on his Impalla he took it back to the dealer thinking he had a bad wheel bearing. He also tries not to drive his FWD Impalla in the snow because the tires are so bad.
2. I was told pretty firmly by the dealer service manager that there was nothing else they could or would do that my path of recourse was with the Lincoln regional manager, that is the one I gave up on after leaving 3 voice mails.
3. I did consider a BMW but desided it was too much extra. A reasonably equiped 328, which is way too small was more than the LS-8. Even one year old "executive" 528s were more. In hindsight, as they say, you get what you pay for, although I never had a vibration problem of any sort with 18 different company car Taurus's. I guess Ford knows how to make cheap cars, they just haven't figured out how to make expensive ones.
4. It's been many years I used to turn wrenches. I'm just an amateur now doing the less messy jobs on my cars. My best guess it the problem is wheel, tire or driveshaft or worse yet a combination of them. The strange thing about the vibration is that its frequency does not change with road speed, nor what gear you are in. It is stronger at some speeds, 71 & 80 MPH when the car / weather is cold. When the weather is hot and after a long drive it is stonger and can be felt down 55 MPH. I suspect that something, wheel, tire, driveshaft is exciting a natural resonance in some part of the LS which is why the vibration doesn't change freqency with road speed. Rotating the tires seems to move the vibration somewhat between the front & rear of the car, which makes me suspect a wheel. Based on some of my long ago wrenching I'm suspicious that the extreme wheel offset makes any wheel / tire imperfections more noticable. I've heard there are lots of similar complaints with the Jag S-type. It's pretty frustrating to read posts from other participants telling stories about how the dealer had a spectrum analyzer, determined the vibration frequency and fixed it right away with a drive shaft weight. At least there are some competent dealers out there. I found a MK-VIII site that sold single piece driveshafts for MK-VII's. Apparantly there have veen driveshaft vibration problems with the OEM 2 piece MK-VIII driveshaft. Could be my problem too, but it's kink of hard for me to correctly diagnose the root casue of the problem. My next crack at the problem will be to take it to someone with a Hunter and see if they find anything, although I hate to have to pay for what should be warranty work. Also, at least to me, the best test to make would still be swapping tires & wheels with another LS.
5. The whole Lincoln engineer thing was a fiasco. My expectation was that I would take my LS in for a test drive with him. Insead my LS sat at the dealer for a week before he drove it. Concluding with "your car is fixed, come get it" As usual with this dealer you're handed a receipt and your kees at the cashier and it's up to you to read it and figure out what they did or did not do. My receipt says the following:
"customer states: vibration and audible rumble......
Test drove vehicle for about 20 minutes, Was not able to determine any vibration or noise that could be considered abnormal. Advise no further rapairs at this time. Steve Siefert (Field Service Engineer) Ford, Lincoln, Mercury Customer Service Division."
2. On the Engine Air Filter replacement. I just did battle with it, one of the more tricky ones to learn how to do. I think I have a little bit better procedure that doesn't require removing the filter box base.:
1. Open the Hood.
2. Locate the plastic cover at the very front of the LS that covers the radiator. Remove the 4 retainer clips by
unscrewing them and then removing all 4 retainers from the plastic cover. Remove the plastic cover by sliding it forward. Removing this cover give you a little more room to maneuver the air box cover and makes it much easier so see the tongues and slots when replacing the air box cover.
3. Locate the hose clamp that connects the air filter cover to the air inlet duct and loosen it. Just loosen the clamp, don't remove it.
4. On the V8, remove the engine cover, the one that says "Lincoln V8" by carefully pushing down the 2 plastic retainers on the driver's side. Remove the retainers so you don't accidentally drop them into the cramped engine compartment. Remove the engine cover by pulling it straight up paying attention to the 3rd rubber retainer that is just pulls straight off the stud below it. Removing the engine cover makes it easier to move the air box cover and inlet duct.
5. Open the air filter box cover by pushing in on the snap fasteners. Lift the rear side of the air filter cover (the side with the snap fasteners) up about 1" so the fasteners clear the air filter element and air box base. Next slide the cover towards the front of the LS about 1" so that the side on tongues on the front of the air box base are cleared. Then lift the whole cover (still connected to the engine air duct) up and towards the rear of the LS exposing the air filter element.
6. Check for any dirt sand or debris in the air box base and clean if necessary.
7. Remove the old filter element simply by lifting it out. Replace the air filter with either a Motorcraft FA-1679 or a K&N high performance filter element.
8. Bring the top cover back down and forward, moving it 1" past the air box base again keeping the rear of the cover up at about a 30 degree angle. Use your work light or a flashlight) to be able to see the tongues on the front of the air box base. Lower the cover and slide it back making sure all of the tongues engage in the cover slots. This will work best if the rear of the cover is tilted up to clear the snap fasteners. Once the tongues are engaged pivot the cover down and lock the snap fasteners.
9. Re tighten the engine air inlet duct hose clamp.
10. Replace the Engine Cover. First locate the push on rubber retainer and push it straight down over the stud it attaches to . Then insert the 2 push pin fasteners on the LS V8. Be carful to gently push the retainers down until they are just flush.
11. Replace the front radiator cover by locating it forward and then sliding it in under the engine air duct. Replace the 4 cover fasteners.
12. Don't be an idiot like the guy in the Fram oil filter ads and wash you hands before you close the hood, eat a sandwich or pat your wife on the but.