O.k. I have a question...I thought door seals were supposed to get an application of a Silicon Lubricant? However the link by Keyrow suggests Silicone might actually breakdown waxes on the rubber. Any explanation would be helpful as to which way to go..
I remember reading several hundred posts ago about what some were describing as mushy brakes. Yesterday for the first time (it was 95 degrees) I was driving my LS over to a friends for a pool party in my bare feet. The first time I stepped on the brakes I was surprised to find the brake pedal has what appears to be a soft center that gives quite a bit when pressing on it. It's like a rectangular frame with a soft rubber covering. Using your big toe you could make quite a depression in the center of the pedal. Maybe it's the pedal that's mushy and not the brakes themselves??? Anyway just thought I'd bring up a new subject.... not that glass replacement and transmission fluid isn't exciting stuff!!
Kevin 2000 V8 ls 16K miles who still get's lot of remarks about how well she Clean's up.
Check out the August '01 issue of R&T. Test evaluation of '02 T-bird. She went 0-60 in 7.0 secs versus 7.3 for their LS8 Sport test. T-bird tested 10 pounds heavier. Same 3.58 final drive ratio. However, R&T chart says first and second gear ratios are slightly different.
Gear T-bird LS
1st 3.22 3.25 2nd 2.41 2.44
Their chart shows T-bird reaching 42 mph in 1st gear versus 39 mph in LS8. Estimate top speed, 5th gear, of both at 4,800 rpms (est) to be 140 mph (electronically limited). Their chart shows T-bird hitting max rpms of 6,400 in 1-2-3-4 gear versus LS8 hitting 5,800 rpms in 1st and only 6,200 in 2-3-4.
T-bird test 4 deg F hotter but LS8 tested on 39% humidity (vs 6%) and LS8 tested at 1,010 ft versus 150 ft elevation for T-bird. Heavy wind for T-bird and calm for LS8.
T-bird rode Michelin Pilot HS MXM4, P235/50-R17 95V. LS8 Sport on Firestone Firehawk LH, P235/50VR-17 95V.
T-bird braked slightly better, pulled same .83g, and was faster thru the 700 ft slalom (by .3 mph). LS8 had better fuel economy.
Ok, I know that the window crashing problem has the TSB and all, but has anyone had one crash twice.
My passenger side rear crashed for the second time yesterday. Fortunately, I was already scheduled to bring the car in for other various niggling problems.
The one good thing is that now that the TSB is out, they should fix both windows rather than just the one like last time.
On another note, they gave me a TC to drive and all I gotta say is what a boat. Drove a Conti a couple of times in the past and expected some similarities, but there are none. Drove the TC for a fairly extened 90 mile one-way trip and anywhere above 90 MPH, it just starts to get downright scary. Floating around with no control, bouncing up and down on the heaves in the road, eek.
Giowa: in spite of the grief you've endured here (even at my hands from time to time), it's worth pointing out that it's good to see actual data used to support positions -- the T-Bird Performance post is what I'm referring to.
I'm disappointed with the direction of the marketing for our beloved LS -- actual data (as in the reference above) is beyond irrelevant to the audience appeared to be targeted by LS television and radio (as if there were any?) ads. Image is everything, and as nearly as I can tell, the LS is perceived by the bulk of the American Public (gosh, don't we all want to be included?) as a somewhat smaller version of the Continental. . .or whatever.
It appears to me that the LS isn't being put forth as a legitimate competitor with the BMW, Infiniti, Acura or (God forbid) Catera, all of which are advertised as performance sedans.
There was a running change in May 2000 that changed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear ratios. The ratios listed for the T-Bid are correct for all 5R55N transmissions in the T-Bird and the LS. 3rd gear changed from 1.55:1 o 1.54:1.
The change was to improve the gears, not for any performance change.
The final drive ratios also changed. The early build V8s had a 3.58:1 ratio. This was changed about August 1999 to 3.31:1, which is what it still has. The V6 auto has always had a 3.58:1.
After 15,000 miles and 16 months, I've had my first problem - the fogged headlamp assembly. I know there have been many past posts, but can't remember what the solution is. Are we talking about replacing the entire assembly?
Netmogul, The transmission symptoms you describe are almost exactly like mine. I drove my LS 6 hours on the interstate last weekend and the problem became very noticeable; that's what prompted me to post a message to Town Hall. I'm going to send our messages to my dealer to show them there are at least 2 of us having this problem; I suspect others have similar problems but may not be as observant. I have the V8 but not the sport version. My LS was built in June 2000. I would like the dealer to find the problem BEFORE the tranny goes belly-up; I don't want my wife sitting along side of the interstate, waiting for Lincoln's customer care service to show up. I'll let you know what the dealer tells me when I take the car in for service on Thursday (5 July). I appreciate your feedback. I'll try to keep in touch.
The only solution that I have seen for the fogged up headlamps is getting them replaced under warranty (or at your own expense). I suppose you could use some sort of sealer, but I would hate to start using that goop on my car.
As to the seats, the only areas that are leather are the "seating surfaces". If they used glove soft leather like the hides in the Jaguar you could tell the difference easily, in the LS it is much harder since the leather is kind of stiff and not a lot softer then the vinyl. I don't, however understand the problem. Obviously the back of the seat is vinyl and probably the sides too. Everything else might be leather and since most vinyl reacts well to leather cleaner and conditioner, why not just use it on the whole seat and if it doesn't work to your satisfaction, then adapt by using vinylex or some similar product on the parts that aren't coming clean.
To all LS owners in SoCal...I would strongly advise staying away from Peyton Cramer LM in Torrance for any service. Today I brought my 00 LS in for some minor work at 9:00 am as instructed. At 4:00 I'd heard nothing from them so I called. They said they had not had a chance to look at the car yet, but that they would do it now and it would be ready by 7:00. I received no phone call by 7:00 so I had my wife drive me to the dealer where I waited for half an hour while they tried to located my service advisor. When he finally showed up he told me that they did not get a chance to even look at the car. Unf*******belivable! This is the third time in 4 trips to this dealer that, after having the car all day, they never even looked at it or called me to let me know the status, even if it was to say they could not get to it today. Also, in the 4 times I have taken my car there, they never once offered me a ride to work or a loaner, never washed the car, never called to give me an update. In short, did absolutly nothing to make a customer feel important. The only time they managaed to complete the work was when I took it in to have the PCM flash upgrade done, and even then it was not done on time and I had to wait at the dealership for an hour and a half while they finished it. I had much better service 15 years ago from a Ford dealership when I bought my first car, a 10k Escort!! My wife drives an ML 320 and our Mercedes dealership would never even think of treating a customer like this. They treat each customer the same, whether you buy a 30k C-Class or a 100k 500SL. Each time we have taken her car in the work was completed on time, we were called throughout the day and given updates, offerd a loaner, and when we pick up the car it is detailed inside and out and the gas tank was filled. Now that is service!! I paid more for my LS than we did for her ML. Is it to much to ask that I get comparable service for my car as she gets for hers??
I am going to go to the dealership tomorrow to speak with the general manager. I intend on getting free service or at least a free detail and will never go back to Peyton Cramer again. My wife's lease expires in a few months and we were going to go buy her a Navigator. Because of my experiences, we may not get a Navigator and if we do it will never be from this dealership. So they have lost a 50k sale because they fail to treat their customers they way they should, however I would be surprised if they even cared. In addition, as much as I love my LS chances are I will not buy another one as I had planned because while Lincoln has made a fine car, they have consistantly failed in meeting even the lowest standards for customer service at their dealerships. They simply will never be able to compete fully with Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and others until they address their dealership woes.
Sorry for the long post and the rant, but I needed to vent to someone! Again, I do not intend to impugn the LS with this rant. It is a very fine automobile. Just that Lincoln has a very long way to go in terms of taking care of the customers who spend their hard earned money on their products.
Again, stay away from Peyton Cramer LM. Note: The people at Edmunds got their long term tester from Peyton Cramer and even they were treated like crap. You'd think they would go out of their way to please these people as they knew they were going to write about the dealership experience as part of their long term updates. They had similar experiences with most of the LM dealerships during their test.
Funny about the skidpad. I watched Car and Driver TV last Saturday and they said the LS bested the Bird on the skidpad. The best they could get for the Bird was .80. And R&T and C&D are sister magazines!
joe166 is right about the headlights. It is a known problem and the fix is a new assembly. My right one went last Oct and the left one just a few weeks ago. Still no window crashes, though.
If you watched the same program I did, did you note that they also said the Tbird's suspension uses softer spring rates than the Lincoln LS "to be more in line with its history as a boulevard cruiser". Pretty dumb idea.
Although I surely sympathize with you on the awful failure to service your car, I can't agree on the loaner. If I owned a dealership I would probably not "offer" one either. I would give one when asked. You have a responsibility to ask for one if you want one. If you don't want one or don't need one and don't ask, then don't moan when you don't get it. I am not crazy about the practice of driving me to a budget rental car agency and wasting a couple of hours of my time, but the dealership has never offered me one either, they just respond when I call and make a reservation for service and tell them I will need a car for the day. I hope you get satisfaction from the GM when you go there tomorrow, but may I suggest that if you tell them that you are never coming back anyway, they might just write you off as a lost cause. Give them the impression at least that you are giving them one last chance to keep you as a customer. Then zap them on the quality assurance survey. They hate that!
You make a good point about at least letting them believe that if they do the right thing they can keep me as a customer. However, I want Lincoln to care about keeping me as a customer and not necessarily this dealership. But yor point is well taken about getting some satisfaction from Peyton Cramer.
With regard to the loaner car issue, all I can say is that Mercedes always offers us a loaner car when ours is in for service as did the Lexus dealer did when I owned my GS300. If they can do it, why can't Peyton Cramer? I believe they don't because they have no idea how to treat buyers of upscale luxury cars. Sure they have the TC and the Conti, but how many of those owners really need a loaner?
The difference is that Mercedes and Lexus give loaners to everyone that gets service there in one of their cars. And at the prices they charge (either the factory under warranty or the poor owners), they certainly should. They seem to have a fleet of "loaners" to use. L-M is kind of new to this and the "fleet" varies wildly from dealer to dealer as they sort out what they are going to do. Some dealers seem to have loaners available. Some have a rental car agency on site. Lots send a van to the nearest rental car agency that they have a relationship with. The point is that there are lots of people who come in to the L/M dealer who don't get the use of a car. There are very few who go to a Lexus or Mercedes dealership who are not entitled to one. That makes a big difference in my opinion.
Being that Lincoln will provide a free rental/loaner car any time there is a warranty problem on the vehicle, just find something small to have checked out or repaired under warranty and the dealership will just forward the cost of the rental to L-M.
Many of us defended the LS seats when someone with an Accord made a comment recently. Like most, I love the seats and have read nothing but rave reviews about them from the car mags.
I was just browsing the NHTSA listings of TSBs and found item number SB618079. It refers to seat comfort and a possible lack of padding in some vehicles! Would this mean that some folks find all LS seats uncomfortable, or does it mean that some seats were not manufactured properly?
Anyone know what prompts a "concern" to become a TSB? Seems I recall that Ford looks at TSBs in a different light than many other automakers.
Most likely one of the (if not the primary) reason the T-Bird has softer spings is simply because it's a convertable. By not having a top the unibody will flex and twist much more than in roofed car like the LS. A common way to cause less chassis twist which results in loss of road feel and can give a car a case of the shakes over rough roads, is to use softer springs as the stiffening parts added to the T-Bird won't make up for the missing roof. Living in the north country the T-Bird would be much more attractive to me if there was a permanent hardtop version that was stiffer (unibody & springs) and lighter in weight. So the T-bird isn't the only topless car to do this.
"Lincoln dealers reported June sales of 16,846, down slightly (two percent) from a year ago. The Lincoln LS mid-size sedan set a new June sales record (4,921)." (thats up 8.6%)
That explains why I'm seeing so many lately. For the last year they were scarce in my area, now I see at least 1 or 2 a day. I'm not the only kid on the block anymore.
Lincoln no longer guarantees a loaner car for warranty service. They guarantee "transportation" which could mean a shuttle van or ride back to work. I'm not whining, just pointing out that loaners are not factory guaranteed any more like they were when the LS first came out. And it's basically up to the dealers anyway. Mine charges me sales tax (because the state of GA told them they had to - yeah right. What the state said was that sales tax had to be paid, but that doesn't mean I have to pay it) but to me it's worth it to get a V8 LS loaner. Some give out escorts. This is one area where LM dealers are far behind the other prestige brands.
AKirby---When I bought my LS, I was promised a free loaner whenever my car was in for servicing. If they changed their mind, that is nice, but I doubt that they could change my contract with them without my permission. I change my own oil and filters, so I haven't had any occasion to go in lately, but I intended to take it in next week. I wonder what I will get. My dealership, Coral Gables Lincoln Mercury is pretty classy, so I expect no trouble. (Famous last words.)
Slunar - C&D did mention on the show that the reason for the softer springs was twofold. One, to give it that grand touring feel and second, just as you said, to help eliminate cowl shake on the drop top.
Akirby - I did not realize that Lincoln had revised their policy on loaners. I guess they must have traded it for the free maintenance.
Being that I do most of my own maint. I guess I like the free loaner idea better. Maybe they can make it a customer's choice at time of purchase.
I always get one from my dealership (Stevens-Creek Audi). Their rental vouchers only pay for a compact, but $10 more gets me into another A6. They also check in with me every 3 hours to let me know how my baby is doing.
Dealerships need to learn that SERVICE brings you back for the next car, even more than PRICE. My Mazda dealer treated me like a redheaded stepchild. I walked into my Audi dealer expecting the same...just sell me the $&*# car and get out of my way. Well, surprise! Getting my car serviced has been a pleasure, even though they made a mistake and left the belly pan on my car flopping in the wind.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that you go to the service area next time and ask people how they like the service...good and bad.
Loaner cars was one of my gripes from way back but I am so over it it's not funny. I think you fortunate few that get LS or even a full size L-M product for a loaner should count your blessings. I found that unless I am stuck in one for more than a day or two, I take whatever I get. The last time at Lincoln I got a nice beat down Focus and my LS got finished before the weekend as I was about to take it in and swap it for something decent for driving more than my 6 mile commute. When I take our C240 in for service, the MB dealer has a fleet of Honda Civics and Accords for loaners. I got one with the jack rolling around in the back and refused another that had the check engine light burning when I got ready to go. But then I like to complain alot so maybe it's me and not a lack of care on their part, right?
My Jaguar dealer will either pick up your car from your home or work or provide a free comparable loaner for any type of service, warranty or for the free maintenance or whatever. There are absolutely no charges, no extra fees for a bigger car, no taxes, no vouchers or anything.
Fortunately I have not had to use this perk, the S-Type had been absoultely flawless and the first service is not until 10,000 miles.
I had a nail in the crown of my tire and was supprised to learn that my 2000 V6 sport had a 16 inch spare. Do all you other sport owners have a 16 inch spare? Has anyone had any luck getting the dealer to reprogram the locks so that when the car shuts off all the locks unlock rather than just the driver's? Given all the talk about transmission problems and service, I'm feeling pretty good about my manual right now. Does anyone know how it will hold up if I increase power with a supercharger? I would think it would do better than the auto-boxes, but there isn't a v-8 manual. Could that just be marketing? While I'm talking about engine breathing, doesn't the v-6 have the same air filter and manifold supply plumbing as the v-8? How about exhaust pipes? I've heard this cars weak point is breathing, but I would think the v-6 breathes relatively better than the v-8. Any thoughts?
The manual transmission in the V-6 probably couldn't take too much more power or torque without seriously shortening the life of the transmission.
The V-6 uses the same airbox, and I believe, the same mass air flow sensor as the V-8(I could be wrong so don't quote me on the sensor). The manifold supply plumbing is different. If anything the V-6 appears to have a less restrictive run since it doesn't have to do two right angle bends before getting to the intake manifold.
The exhaust pipes are puny on the V-6. We put a Borla on ezaircons and it seems to open up the breathing pretty good. He has a recent post on here about it. He's also opened up his airbox and added a piece of intake hose to make it a quasi-cold air intake, along with the K&N replacement filter. Betweeen these two mods. it seems to allow the engine to rev freer.
For those who really care -- in the old days when fuel concerns were not high the compressors in most American cars ran all the time unless the head pressure became too high. Turning the air off when you wanted a gain in acceleration was a common thing to do. Some of us who were really concerned with this added a vacuum switch in series with the compressor clutch -- this switch opened the circuit releasing the clutch whenever engine manifold pressure dropped as in full throttle acceleration. By the way, holding the throttle open would result in the manifold pressure returning to a point high enough to close the switch again as the car reached speed and turn the air compressor back on, so, "no" if you were racing down the road at full throttle you would lose the air briefly when you first punched it, but it would return once you got up to speed.
For some time now most cars have been using some device either full time or selectable -- usually some type of economy setting on the controls -- to do the same kind of thing. This started as a way to increase fuel economy I think and add a little pep to the low powered cars of the time. I suspect LS models like most cars today use their computers to control this feature.
Edmunds.com included the LS V8 in its just published Entry Level Luxury Sport Sedans Comparison Test. Check it out by following the link in the Additional Resources box on the left sidebar of this page.
The loaner issue differs so much with each dealer. Mullinax ML in *ignore* TN has always provided alternate transportation (ride or loaner) for Lincoln, Mercury, and any brand of used car purchased from their lot. In 14 years I have been given TCs down to a Topaz, but most importantly they fix the car right with few returns. In this small city, a dealer's service reputation is important and well known in the community.
For those with a heat shield between the driveshaft and the exhaust, you will probably have to trim the shield around the rear of the resonator. LS1BMW0 and I bent mine but It still doesn't have enough clearance. I will trim mine tomorrow as the in-laws will be over when I get off work (yea, some of us government employees don't get holidays off!) so I will have to wait. The pipes don't cause the shield to vibrate until the system warms up, so don't be surprised if you don't notice the issue right away.
To reset oil or filter life, you have to press and hold the reset button when the display shows the item you're trying to reset. After you've held it down for about five seconds, you will be prompted to press it again to reset it.
I would agree with you on the loaner issue. Maybe your dealership needs a tip on who they are competing with. If the competition is providing loaners, maybe they aren’t aware of that or they are, wanting to keep the cost’s low with the common customer.
I think the later is the case. Today, most monthly reports will show what a dealership is spending on this and that and if some tool unaware of what keeps the money flowing decides to take out the loaners, he is losing in service however, that is not his concern, it’s the service dept concerns etc. It’s manager v manager or dept v dept and too much this and that will hinder true front line people needs. HELLO.
Folks are so tuned up about the bottom line that they forget that goodwill is not a thing of the past with a customer. I would like to see a column in any financial report that shows the benefits of goodwill to satisfied returning customers ratio, or would that be too much concern? Many dealer’s focus on the profit margin of a single transaction too much. They should focus on monthly profits per unit weighted on averages rather than micro-managing each repair order.
I see dealers doing very well and making plenty of profit that there is room for these changes like it used to be when spending a hunk of cash at any establishment.
Move onto another dealer you may find they will do more for you knowing you are interested in their services even if they are out of your way.
Thanks to Scottc8 for pointing out the Edmunds review of the entry level sports sedans, the review is very good and paints the roadmap for Lincoln to improve the LS...
If Lincoln would correct the bad attitute of some of their dealers, they would have a happier customer base and sell more cars....
I just finished the entire new "Entry Level Sports Sedan" test. I can't agree with the big Acura as #1, because so much weight was put on it's low price (value?), while so little was put on handling. The BMW chosen is always the little 3, which makes me wish they would just test equal size cars and throw the 5 series into the test instead. Then the Lexus and 330i would disappear to their boy-racer box, which is a different category altogether. I'm not a big guy, but the 3 series reminds me of a Corolla, and for over 30 big ones, I want some room if I'm going four doors. With the econobox-sized cars out, the LS would move up the scale. But I can agree with Edmunds on some points. #1 is that Lincoln is very close but they have to bring the value up. #2 is that LM has to get rid of the "VVT for Jaguar only" crap because the LS is underpowered for the money and VVT is the most cost-effective solution for easy horsepower. VVT is almost mandatory to play in this league and LM will soon look antique without it. #3, if you read the stereo evaluation, is to dump the $2.50 whizzer cone Philco speakers and make a deal with Polk. #4: When the manual IS300 comes out, it's 0-60 will make the manual LS6 look really slow, and it will no doubt have LSD as well. I think my old idea about the "two LSs" would be great. Keep the V-8 as the luxury LS and spend some time on the Manual V-6 as a real performance model. Six-speed, VVT, LSD, and keep the bland interior. Work on the intake and exhaust systems and the car should compete with the mainstream 5 series. Maybe just take it out of the "entry level luxury" class and make a new class of "luxury-performance". The other option is to lower the price so it is the best RWD value compared to the Acura. But just don't sit on the fence.
I agree, the service at Payton Cramer LM is atrocious. I tried to talk with them, cajole them and threaten them nothing worked so I left, and I will never go back!!!! I tried Hollywood LM near my office they stink too. They ordered parts for me and said they would call when they came in, never got a call back. I sent scathing reviews on the mail-in questionnaires and even LM does not respond to them. I have found that the service at Mayberry LM is wonderful. When you walk in you think you are in the service department of a small town dealership and you are treated with care. Kudos to them.
I've been MIA for a while moving office twice since the beginning of the year and cutbacks have not afforded me the time to read the posts. Anyway I have a question.
Has anyone had a problem with FM reception after tinting their windows. I got my LS tinted last week and I had to leave it out in the dew of the night for the first time. When I kicked on the window defogger I noticed that a couple of the elements seem to be heating a bunch, a couple not at all and my FM reception drops out. Has anyone had this problem or should I beat on the tint installer?
Well guys I just read the review and to tell you the truth I am not surprised or terribly dismayed... After all the MB C320 ended up in Fifth Place, just one up on the LS. I am SAD though that all of those cars fared better than the LS. Especially when at least two of the cars are lesser cars at least athletically the S60 and the TL.. I have driven both and they leave much to be desired. They both do not feel anywhere as substantial as the LS and the S60 T5 man! Talk about Torque steer! Scary stuff.. I looked at one because I get the X-Plan and I like the sheet metal but I have to say this is definitely a case of Style over substance. Now the TL is nice but I was not to impressed by the Handling numbers on the TL version and it didn't impress me both times I drove it.. How is the TL-S doing? Also in the end it is a Honda Accord Chassis which I am sure is inferior to the DEW98 Platform (Minus the resonance anomalies experienced by some fellow LSers). Here is where we lose, bottom line, -- Performance, Refinement and Value... In that order. The hits in the article are the engine and tranny (Not Refined, Not Fast enough, more oomph (no pun intended once again), slow shifts ) and the interior is not as refined as the others and some serious lack of build quality! If you notice though there is nothing really wrong with the core elements of the LS! It is a great car with superb handling abilities. All it needs now is for LINCOLN to step up to the plate and Refine the LS. There is no doubt the V8 if fine tuned could whoop the other cars the IS300, BMW330 and the TLS into submission. The interior that is all style and can be easily spruced up. If Lincoln can keep the Bottom Line where it is at but increase the build quality, and tune the engine more and maybe tweak the tranny a little more, and spruce the interior, it will be a value at $40K any day of the week...
All I know is when I look at my LS it is a car of substance, and that being said none of the other cars evoke that feeling, at lease not until I get into the Bigger Beemers and Benzos..
Regards,
Airwolf1000 P.S. So what is the Official Scoop on the Tires? My tires probably got about 6k miles left on them...
I tinted my windows last week. Being in So Cal I don't get much opportunity to use the rear defroster. If anything I noticed BETTER reception, both AM & FM. That makes NO sense to me, but , whatever.
I would contact the tint installer. Sounds like they messed up your defroster grid and your radio antenna. I had mine tinted and have had no problems with either. As ezaircon stated, I seem to get better reception. Dunno if that has to do with the metallized tint or not.
A couple of months ago I was on an airplane sitting next to a Ford engineer who told me that he was in the advanced development group that played with a lot of different concepts and that the V8 in the LS was designed to handle 300 hp and that it could be done by using a different engine management set up.
"2) The Lexus has a manufacturer flaw in the upshift from 2nd to 3rd - Only a few people will notice this. I did notice and asked. We drove a few more GS and they all do the same thing. A mild shake during an upshift. Nothing we can do about it. It only happens under mild acceleration. Hard acceleration does not produce this problem"
Even the passionate pursuit of perfection misses the mark on occasion.
More often than not, perception is reality. Those of us who own the vehicle and know its handling capability are drowned out by those who notice any number of cosmetic issues.
Given that Acura and BMW (to say nothing of Infiniti, Benz or others) have a reputation already, any entity attempting to "join the crowd" had better be measureably better to even be looked at. We're potentially as good, but actual performance still leaves something to be desired.
260 hp and 246 lb ft of torque and a six-speed manual transmission. From a smooth 3.5 liter V6. The new Altima will have 240hp from its 3.5 liter V6.
Lincoln, you'd better make certain the 2003 or 2002 1/2 LS gets VVT and maybe a supercharger to boot for the Sport Package...or else the LS will fall behind pretty quick. Great handling is priority, but falling behind the pack in HP aint good..
Comments
Regards,
Airwolf1000
Yesterday for the first time (it was 95 degrees) I was driving my LS over to a friends for a pool party in my bare feet.
The first time I stepped on the brakes I was surprised to find the brake pedal has what appears to be a soft center that gives quite a bit when pressing on it. It's like a rectangular frame with a soft rubber covering. Using your big toe you could make quite a depression in the center of the pedal.
Maybe it's the pedal that's mushy and not the brakes themselves???
Anyway just thought I'd bring up a new subject.... not that glass replacement and transmission fluid isn't exciting stuff!!
Kevin
2000 V8 ls 16K miles who still get's lot of remarks about how well she Clean's up.
Gear T-bird LS
1st 3.22 3.25
2nd 2.41 2.44
Their chart shows T-bird reaching 42 mph in 1st gear versus 39 mph in LS8. Estimate top speed, 5th gear, of both at 4,800 rpms (est) to be 140 mph (electronically limited). Their chart shows T-bird hitting max rpms of 6,400 in 1-2-3-4 gear versus LS8 hitting 5,800 rpms in 1st and only 6,200 in 2-3-4.
T-bird test 4 deg F hotter but LS8 tested on 39% humidity (vs 6%) and LS8 tested at 1,010 ft versus 150 ft elevation for T-bird. Heavy wind for T-bird and calm for LS8.
T-bird rode Michelin Pilot HS MXM4, P235/50-R17 95V. LS8 Sport on Firestone Firehawk LH, P235/50VR-17 95V.
T-bird braked slightly better, pulled same .83g, and was faster thru the 700 ft slalom (by .3 mph). LS8 had better fuel economy.
My passenger side rear crashed for the second time yesterday. Fortunately, I was already scheduled to bring the car in for other various niggling problems.
The one good thing is that now that the TSB is out, they should fix both windows rather than just the one like last time.
On another note, they gave me a TC to drive and all I gotta say is what a boat. Drove a Conti a couple of times in the past and expected some similarities, but there are none. Drove the TC for a fairly extened 90 mile one-way trip and anywhere above 90 MPH, it just starts to get downright scary. Floating around with no control, bouncing up and down on the heaves in the road, eek.
One day and I already miss the LS, and bad.
Bruno
I'm disappointed with the direction of the marketing for our beloved LS -- actual data (as in the reference above) is beyond irrelevant to the audience appeared to be targeted by LS television and radio (as if there were any?) ads. Image is everything, and as nearly as I can tell, the LS is perceived by the bulk of the American Public (gosh, don't we all want to be included?) as a somewhat smaller version of the Continental. . .or whatever.
It appears to me that the LS isn't being put forth as a legitimate competitor with the BMW, Infiniti, Acura or (God forbid) Catera, all of which are advertised as performance sedans.
. . .all others bring data.
Steve
The change was to improve the gears, not for any performance change.
The final drive ratios also changed. The early build V8s had a 3.58:1 ratio. This was changed about August 1999 to 3.31:1, which is what it still has. The V6 auto has always had a 3.58:1.
Mark
The transmission symptoms you describe are almost exactly like mine. I drove my LS 6 hours on the interstate last weekend and the problem became very noticeable; that's what prompted me to post a message to Town Hall. I'm going to send our messages to my dealer to show them there are at least 2 of us having this problem; I suspect others have similar problems but may not be as observant. I have the V8 but not the sport version. My LS was built in June 2000. I would like the dealer to find the problem BEFORE the tranny goes belly-up; I don't want my wife sitting along side of the interstate, waiting for Lincoln's customer care service to show up. I'll let you know what the dealer tells me when I take the car in for service on Thursday (5 July). I appreciate your feedback. I'll try to keep in touch.
As to the seats, the only areas that are leather are the "seating surfaces". If they used glove soft leather like the hides in the Jaguar you could tell the difference easily, in the LS it is much harder since the leather is kind of stiff and not a lot softer then the vinyl. I don't, however understand the problem. Obviously the back of the seat is vinyl and probably the sides too. Everything else might be leather and since most vinyl reacts well to leather cleaner and conditioner, why not just use it on the whole seat and if it doesn't work to your satisfaction, then adapt by using vinylex or some similar product on the parts that aren't coming clean.
I am going to go to the dealership tomorrow to speak with the general manager. I intend on getting free service or at least a free detail and will never go back to Peyton Cramer again. My wife's lease expires in a few months and we were going to go buy her a Navigator. Because of my experiences, we may not get a Navigator and if we do it will never be from this dealership. So they have lost a 50k sale because they fail to treat their customers they way they should, however I would be surprised if they even cared. In addition, as much as I love my LS chances are I will not buy another one as I had planned because while Lincoln has made a fine car, they have consistantly failed in meeting even the lowest standards for customer service at their dealerships. They simply will never be able to compete fully with Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and others until they address their dealership woes.
Sorry for the long post and the rant, but I needed to vent to someone! Again, I do not intend to impugn the LS with this rant. It is a very fine automobile. Just that Lincoln has a very long way to go in terms of taking care of the customers who spend their hard earned money on their products.
Again, stay away from Peyton Cramer LM. Note: The people at Edmunds got their long term tester from Peyton Cramer and even they were treated like crap. You'd think they would go out of their way to please these people as they knew they were going to write about the dealership experience as part of their long term updates. They had similar experiences with most of the LM dealerships during their test.
joe166 is right about the headlights. It is a known problem and the fix is a new assembly. My right one went last Oct and the left one just a few weeks ago. Still no window crashes, though.
You make a good point about at least letting them believe that if they do the right thing they can keep me as a customer. However, I want Lincoln to care about keeping me as a customer and not necessarily this dealership. But yor point is well taken about getting some satisfaction from Peyton Cramer.
With regard to the loaner car issue, all I can say is that Mercedes always offers us a loaner car when ours is in for service as did the Lexus dealer did when I owned my GS300. If they can do it, why can't Peyton Cramer? I believe they don't because they have no idea how to treat buyers of upscale luxury cars. Sure they have the TC and the Conti, but how many of those owners really need a loaner?
Then it really doesn't even become an issue.
Bruno
Brian
I was just browsing the NHTSA listings of TSBs and found item number SB618079. It refers to seat comfort and a possible lack of padding in some vehicles! Would this mean that some folks find all LS seats uncomfortable, or does it mean that some seats were not manufactured properly?
Anyone know what prompts a "concern" to become a TSB? Seems I recall that Ford looks at TSBs in a different light than many other automakers.
"Lincoln dealers reported June sales of 16,846, down slightly (two percent) from a year ago. The Lincoln LS mid-size sedan set a new June sales record (4,921)." (thats up 8.6%)
Tom
Akirby - I did not realize that Lincoln had revised their policy on loaners. I guess they must have traded it for the free maintenance.
Being that I do most of my own maint. I guess I like the free loaner idea better. Maybe they can make it a customer's choice at time of purchase.
Bruno
Dealerships need to learn that SERVICE brings you back for the next car, even more than PRICE. My Mazda dealer treated me like a redheaded stepchild. I walked into my Audi dealer expecting the same...just sell me the $&*# car and get out of my way. Well, surprise! Getting my car serviced has been a pleasure, even though they made a mistake and left the belly pan on my car flopping in the wind.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that you go to the service area next time and ask people how they like the service...good and bad.
Fortunately I have not had to use this perk, the S-Type had been absoultely flawless and the first service is not until 10,000 miles.
Has anyone had any luck getting the dealer to reprogram the locks so that when the car shuts off all the locks unlock rather than just the driver's?
Given all the talk about transmission problems and service, I'm feeling pretty good about my manual right now. Does anyone know how it will hold up if I increase power with a supercharger? I would think it would do better than the auto-boxes, but there isn't a v-8 manual. Could that just be marketing? While I'm talking about engine breathing, doesn't the v-6 have the same air filter and manifold supply plumbing as the v-8? How about exhaust pipes? I've heard this cars weak point is breathing, but I would think the v-6 breathes relatively better than the v-8. Any thoughts?
The V-6 uses the same airbox, and I believe, the same mass air flow sensor as the V-8(I could be wrong so don't quote me on the sensor). The manifold supply plumbing is different. If anything the V-6 appears to have a less restrictive run since it doesn't have to do two right angle bends before getting to the intake manifold.
The exhaust pipes are puny on the V-6. We put a Borla on ezaircons and it seems to open up the breathing pretty good. He has a recent post on here about it. He's also opened up his airbox and added a piece of intake hose to make it a quasi-cold air intake, along with the K&N replacement filter. Betweeen these two mods. it seems to allow the engine to rev freer.
Brian
For some time now most cars have been using some device either full time or selectable -- usually some type of economy setting on the controls -- to do the same kind of thing. This started as a way to increase fuel economy I think and add a little pep to the low powered cars of the time. I suspect LS models like most cars today use their computers to control this feature.
The good news is, it held it's own against the imports in the all-important Cupholder category. And BMW cupholders finished dead last. Hah!
Happy Independence Day, everyone.
Pat
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To reset oil or filter life, you have to press and hold the reset button when the display shows the item you're trying to reset. After you've held it down for about five seconds, you will be prompted to press it again to reset it.
I think the later is the case. Today, most monthly reports will show what a dealership is spending on this and that and if some tool unaware of what keeps the money flowing decides to take out the loaners, he is losing in service however, that is not his concern, it’s the service dept concerns etc. It’s manager v manager or dept v dept and too much this and that will hinder true front line people needs. HELLO.
Folks are so tuned up about the bottom line that they forget that goodwill is not a thing of the past with a customer. I would like to see a column in any financial report that shows the benefits of goodwill to satisfied returning customers ratio, or would that be too much concern? Many dealer’s focus on the profit margin of a single transaction too much. They should focus on monthly profits per unit weighted on averages rather than micro-managing each repair order.
I see dealers doing very well and making plenty of profit that there is room for these changes like it used to be when spending a hunk of cash at any establishment.
Move onto another dealer you may find they will do more for you knowing you are interested in their services even if they are out of your way.
If Lincoln would correct the bad attitute of some of their dealers, they would have a happier customer base and sell more cars....
#4: When the manual IS300 comes out, it's 0-60 will make the manual LS6 look really slow, and it will no doubt have LSD as well.
I think my old idea about the "two LSs" would be great. Keep the V-8 as the luxury LS and spend some time on the Manual V-6 as a real performance model. Six-speed, VVT, LSD, and keep the bland interior. Work on the intake and exhaust systems and the car should compete with the mainstream 5 series. Maybe just take it out of the "entry level luxury" class and make a new class of "luxury-performance". The other option is to lower the price so it is the best RWD value compared to the Acura. But just don't sit on the fence.
OPA2
I've been MIA for a while moving office twice since the beginning of the year and cutbacks have not afforded me the time to read the posts. Anyway I have a question.
Has anyone had a problem with FM reception after tinting their windows. I got my LS tinted last week and I had to leave it out in the dew of the night for the first time. When I kicked on the window defogger I noticed that a couple of the elements seem to be heating a bunch, a couple not at all and my FM reception drops out. Has anyone had this problem or should I beat on the tint installer?
All I know is when I look at my LS it is a car of substance, and that being said none of the other cars evoke that feeling, at lease not until I get into the Bigger Beemers and Benzos..
Regards,
Airwolf1000
P.S. So what is the Official Scoop on the Tires? My tires probably got about 6k miles left on them...
Brian
FYI-Will we ever get it!!
"2) The Lexus has a manufacturer flaw in the upshift from 2nd to 3rd - Only a few people will notice this. I did notice and asked. We drove a few more GS and they all do the same thing. A mild shake during an upshift. Nothing we can do about it. It only happens under mild acceleration. Hard acceleration does not produce this problem"
Even the passionate pursuit of perfection misses the mark on occasion.
Given that Acura and BMW (to say nothing of Infiniti, Benz or others) have a reputation already, any entity attempting to "join the crowd" had better be measureably better to even be looked at. We're potentially as good, but actual performance still leaves something to be desired.
As always, one person's opinion.
Lincoln, you'd better make certain the 2003 or 2002 1/2 LS gets VVT and maybe a supercharger to boot for the Sport Package...or else the LS will fall behind pretty quick. Great handling is priority, but falling behind the pack in HP aint good..