In the early '30s, Cadillac discontinued their V-16 because of weak sales during the Depression. They brought it back a few years later because Cadillac owners were expressing their outrage at being outrun by V8 Fords. Now, if an '02 Maxima can run with my '00 LS8, OK. But I sure hope it won't be able to run with my '05.
Just to throw some gasoline on the fire, yesterday I read that the TL will also be available with a 6-speed manual. If the TL-S can get to 60 in the low 6's with the auto., just imagine what it'll do with the manual. Since the TL is Accord-based, they also mentioned the possibility of the 6-speed for the latter.
Thanks everyone for the positive comments on the problems I had with my new LS. Seems the ABS module was bad, but before they figured that out we decided to bring in another car. I am still waiting, but I am sure it will be well worth it. I managed to get a loaner LS while I am waiting and it is an awesome driving machine. I can feel my first speeding ticket coming on now. Thank god for the Cruise Control. That is the only way to stay out of trouble on the highway. This thing wants to go!! Thanks again everyone and I will let you know how the second one goes.
The new Ford Focus SVT will be offered with a Six-Speed Manual transmission. I can understand Lincoln not offering a manual for the LS. Not enough demand in this category. Dont like it, but I can understand it. (As a sidenote, if the LS Sport didnt have the SST, I would have definitely have purchased a 5-speed manual V6 LS). But as far as HP is concerned, Lincoln has no choice but to add at least 30 more hp to both models by at least the 2003 models. 30hp will put the LS at par for TODAYS competetion. At todays rate, 30hp addition will be BELOW par for other 2003 models at the time.
Jim Rogers-Please do not let the LS grow to a bigger size. It's a perfect size now. Just give us more HP and we can compete against the STS. I am afraid to car creep and we end up back to a Continental size car.
The fact that Lincoln can sell 28% more cars in Canada in any given month doesn't necessarily have much to do with the LS. Rebates and other incentives on the Town Car need to be considered.
Having shared the road with many of the combine pilots in Alberta and Saskatchewan, I can assure you that many more "full size" cars are sold up there because in a skidding environment, F=MA -- these folks have figured out that bit of physics.
I'd dearly love to believe that Canada is leading the way in illustrating that the LS is superior to anything else being sold in its niche. . .but I think not.
What are the relative sales figures? How many Town Cars vs. LS's vs. Navigators vs. whatever else were sold in 2000 & 2001, in Canada, in the US, worldwide? Should the LS really matter to Lincoln on a percentage basis (dollars or units, pick your poison)? And, as I think most of the folks who post here regularly will attest, we're a miniscule percentage of the LS crowd. The bulk of the people who buy LS's could care less about most of what's discussed here.
I have seen the commercial. It is pretty good. As you stated, it features John McEnroe. The ad shows a ballboy driving a black LS V6 manual to pick up tennis balls. It shows the kid dropping the LS into 1st and laying some rubber on the court. At the end McEnroe says something to the effect of "Keep your eyes on the ball and your hands on the wheel"
At jdonnee's mention of Jim Roger's name, I realized we have not heard from him in a very, very long time, unless I blinked. What is the latest, Jim? We can read about it in car mags eventually, but can you give the faithful here an idea of upcoming engine, trans and styling changes and dates?
Haven't seen it. But just wondering how easily a CA-emissions LS-V6M will lay down rubber. Or will someone test drive one and find that it doesn't perform as advertised and therefore be disappointed?
The trick might be to find a V6 manual to test drive! My closest So. Calif dealers sure don't have one. I'm glad I have my LS. With a pouty crybaby like McEnroe as spokesperson, I would probably have been turned off on the car.
Step 1: Turn off traction control. Step 2: Rev to 5,000 RPM. Step 3: Dump clutch.
You can lay rubber in just about any clutch-equipped vehicle that has enough horsepower to at least get out of it's own way, Yugos and various Le Cars excluded.
Is McEnroe still playing tennis? At least Lincoln is showing the manual doing something other than being a tie-rack.
Yes, my 2/00 built LS Manual can lay rubber. It's not too delicate a launch with a 3:07 rear ratio. And the lack of a LSD differential makes for a squirrely too often fishtail-like result, so I don't try it too often. When I leave the end of the "brushless" car wash, it doesn't take too much throttle to just spin the crap out of both tires. The car almost does donuts until one tire catches traction, and then I'm afraid I'll be thrown into a parked car in the shopping center lot. Not too cool for a supposedly mature 52 year old. It reminds too much of how I won the "cone killer" award at LS Mania. But that was the result of trying to correct for the unforeseen upshift and fighting the "traction control". Give me a Manual and LSD instead anytime. Six-speed Manuals are growing. Almost every manufacturer is using the Getrag unit because it doesn't pay to manufacture your own at the volumes used. Audi,MB,Focus,Acura,Nissan SE-R, and more have or will install the six-speed Getrag. LM has got to wake up on this issue if only for EPA/Cafe reasons. The current LS Manual has a hard time breaking 20 mpg. 3000 rpm at 75 mph is quite extreme. An overdrive tranny would allow lower rpm, better mileage AND a lower rear ratio for better acceleration. VVT would add the hp/torque needed, and I,m sure this Manual LS would break the 7 second barrier. All Acura would have to do is bring out a RWD platform and LM would have to give up DEW-lite as non-competitive. After reading Babicka's referenced article at e-mechanic.com, I see we have a bigger problem here than just the bean-counters running the show. A bigger issue is that LM's target is the piggy STS and not the BMW 5 series. Let's make a "luxury" car for the STS buyers and a "performance-luxury" car for those of us who don't want the eel-skin seats and landau tops. It's enough they waste the Northstar on that FWD platform and the geriatric set. I'll get an STS when I need a place to plug in my pacemaker but not before.
I agree with jdonnee, the current LS has "just right" size. In five years, when I may be looking for a replacement for our LS, I hope I don't have to switch brands to find the right car. If the LS has grown into a bloated boat, I'll be looking elsewhere. Also, I don't want a cheapend watered-down version. I relate to the quality of all those chassis parts and the translation of that into the quality feel and handling of this car.
Stanny1, as you say, dropping the clutch on any manual revved to redline will leave rubber... not impressive.
I had an opportunity to drive a non CA-emission/3.31-rear LS-V6M in May '99. Rev. to 1500, release clutch (not drop it) and give gas just as clutch starts engaging, result - wheel chirp. Wheel chirp occurred at 4000 rpm (at speed) in both 2nd and 3rd gears, with four occupants in the car. Acceleration was nothing to write home about but it was adequate. This was moderately aggressive driving, not a 0-60, as fast as possible, run. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the CA-emissions engine can give similar performance - the 3.07 rear doesn't help.
My concern is >40% sales are CA-emission vehicles and in no way, shape or form will these meet the implied "pony-power" behavior of the commercial. Not the way to gain new customers.
A more appropriate commercial would be a bunch of LS-V8's on an empty lot playing a game of Polo, thus showing off the handling of the LS - though I think another car company has already done such a commercial.
is exactly right, IMHO. The basic package is so near ideal right now it just requires some tweaking. Stanny makes good points about future performance options, but there's no need to re-invent this car, or worse, make it into two cars. Imagine the current LS, your choice of auto/SST or 6-speed. LSD option. Engine choices: Duratec V6, with or without VVT and supercharging. The current V8, same options as above. This stuff is all on the shelves, right now.
Like Rene, I'm happy to stick with Lincoln, based on my current experience. But I don't want to have to choose between a Volvo-inspired LSLuxury and a Mustang-derived LSSport. We are so, so close to having it ALL with this car right now, it would be a crying shame to abandon the concept.
As was mentioned above. LEAVE THE SIZE ALONE! This car just needs a few tweeks. More power and a manual for anyone who wants one, 8 or 6. And DON'T EVEN THINK of downgrading the chassis to something cheaper. The investment into tooling is already made. Ride it out! Lincoln makes enough of the Navigator to more than make up for the present cost of the chassis. I am looking forward to being a 2 LS family in a few years. If Lincoln ruins this car as Ford has ruined so many fine automoliles in the past ( remember the Mustang II?), I, too, will be looking elsewhere! Fine, make a shorter LS and call it something else, but leave an EXCELLENT automobile alone! Upgrade, not downgrade! Oh yea. Leave the price alone. Don't go inflating the price to cater the misconception that if it costs more, it's better.
I notice that both Chrysler and Cadillac are returning to RWD platforms. Hmmmmm.......
Just returned from a trip to Palm Springs from San Diego (back today). Drove the LS and found I could pack the trunk pretty full, in-spite of the ITH's. I was able to pack even more (after extensive shopping) for the return trip, which was pretty impressive. The symmetry of the trunk is layed out such that suitcases fit very nicely (with the smaller two up under the subwoofer), and loose bags stuffed in the pockets that remain. Since there was only me and my significant other, it worked great.
For those of you wondering, temp at it peak was 124 degrees in Palm Springs, but it didn't feel one degree over 100. It rained and that is when it got humid, it felt worse when it was 95 and humid than 120 w/o humidity. In any event, the reason for the temp post is because I was suprised when we returned to the LS after it sat in the sun. On the few occasions it did, the interior was always managable, not too hot, and the med parchment seats never once were too hot or uncomfortable to sit on (with shorts and a tank top). We set the a/c on Auto and temp down to 60 and the car would cool down to a reasonable temp in a minute and then in about 3-5 minutes, it would start to chill. Great a/c response and the interior staying cool was beyond my expectations. I always dreaded the leather and the hot climate, but now, I have nothing to fear.
On the way back, we took Hwy 74 south out of Palm Desert down to Hwy 371, to Hwy 79, to Temecula. An interesting drive up into the mountains and back out with some great vistas and a few fun curves to boot. I recommend it for all Southern Cali folk that visit Palm Springs. I even saw another black LS headed in the opposite direction.
Speaking of seeing LS's, I lost count, but in the week we were in Palm Springs, we saw at least 12 LS's. Maybe Hertz is having a field day renting them there, or maybe the desert owners just love the LS.
As for the Edmunds reviewers, their purchase criteria are not similar to mine, so while the LS rates low in their book, it is top notch in mine, especially since it offers the performance and interior size mix. Those other cars just don't compare if you weight these two criteria heavier. And as for build quality, I have not had any creeks they speak of and road noise is minimal and non-noticable when the radio is on at a reasonable level. I am sticking by my purchase and hoping that in 2003, I will have a reason to upgrade.
Looks like Ford is still lagging in the HP race. Seems the norm is now 75 HP / liter. The 3.0 Duratech should be 225 HP and the 3.9 V8 290 HP. interestingly close to the #'s those engines put out in the Jag. If the new 3.3L V6 comes in around 250 HP, which should be a no brainer with VVT and V8 sized exhaust pipes. A 250 HP V6 with 6 speed manual & LSD sure would make a great LS update, might even make a couple of the magazine reviewers happy. Assuming it was vibration free I'd get a manual 6 to replace my 1972 4 speed collector car that I hardly drive anymore since I got my LS 8.
As for the link that had future product information speculation, the info. on that site seemed pretty dated, pre-2001 model intro., so I'm not sure how accurate it is these days. There was some speculation that there would be a stretched LS to replace the Continental, not the LS, that seems more like what that site was referring to. At the risk of being ostracized from this site I would like my LS to be a little bigger, about 1" more front leg room and 2" more rear leg room + about 2 cu ft. more trunk room. It would make the LS a lot more practical for long trips, giowa could even take it on a trip and have room for a couple of Genny 30 packs on his way home.
Note that the future product web site said that the baby LS was going to be based upon the Mondeo / X type platform whereas I think Brian has said it would be made on a shortened LS I'm not sure what a short LS would create as to me rear seat leg room is already in short supply on the present LS.
8/01 issue of Motor Trend has a short story, p. 33, on the '04 Chrysler LX, including picture of the test mule. Is RWD. Mule exterior based on 300M. Claims this RWD platform will be used in 300N, Concorde, Intrepid, and maybe Hemi Super 8 (if the concept is produced). Also says there will be 3.7L and 5.7L engines available. Will reportedly use short-long-arm rear suspension and McP struts up front.
This issue of MT, p. 25, also mentions the Acura CL Type-S will have the 6-speed manual this fall and that a 6-speed "should follow" for TL Type-S by "fall of 2002". Article wonders if there is a chance for a 6-speed Accord V-6 in '03 MY.
After battling my wife and her assortment of drinks on our last trip I'm ready to break down and buy a 2001 console top to get the bigger, resessed cup holders.
I've been searching for the thread but haven't been able to find it. Does anyone have the P/N for the 2001 console cover with the new cup holders? Also, if I remember right all I need to change is the cover although there is going to be a slight mismatch to a cutout in the console base.
SULUNAR, I've seen a complete, step by step procedure for converting the 2000 console to a 2001, so it probably can be done. I think it was on a message board that is discontinued, but you might be able to contact the host and find out what you need. Hopefully the service can out you in touch with them. Here's the link: http://members2.boardhost.com/lincolnls/
My LSV6 was in Osman Lincoln Mercury Melbourne, FL for 10 days with a no start problem. It turned out to be bad computer plus a wiring harness problem, difficult to diagnose but they did a good repair. I had a new LSV8 loaner for the whole period. So far my experience at this dealer is excellent, one side product of this is that next time I would buy the V8.
That almost felt unfair, didn't it? After playing the underdog in the debates with BMW enthusiasts, that made me feel like the schoolyard bully who just got challenged by the class weenie.:)
Well, the other two didn't even make the cut to enter the Edmund's "Entry Level Luxury Sports Sedan Comparison Test". That alone should tell us something. IMHO, the IS300 and 3 series are too small to be considered "luxury" cars. What's luxurious about the back seat of those cars except to a sardine? If the 5 series was in that test, it would have been near last in value. Even at BMW's "new lower prices". But those entry models are hardly "luxury" cars. A 2.5 liter in a "luxury" car? And can you imagine an Aurora or 300M at a slolom? Completely out of character, as are their owners.
As a general rule, I would not believe much of what you read in terms of future Lincoln product.
As you know I cannot say much about our future product but I can say that we will not "mess up" the LS; we will just make it better.
Also, I would like to thank all of you who have contacted me with comments or issues about the LS. Your thoughts are always more than welcome. Feel free to contact me at jroger19@ford.com.
I want to echo Artie's sentiments. I read those articles and start to get worried. It seems that most manufacturers start out with a very good product and when they "have" their buyers, they start chipping at the content. My 86 and 88 Sables had a rear "glove" box between the headrests in the package shelf. Well, what disappeared in my 91? That rear storage area that was perfect for the kids stuff. What left my 96? The rear headrests. What left the 2000? Dual exhaust and rear disc brakes. That is what makes me nervous when I read those articles. PLEASE don't let them force you to do the things done to the Sable/Taurus to the LS!
Mike, lovin the car more and more. I can't wait to drive again!
There is no such thing as a 2001 "non-CA emission" or 49 state LS. All LS vehicles produced are california emission compliant. No worries on buying a "weaker" CA model.
Besides, if there were a difference, it would not change the power output of the car; they would be equal. Honest! California emissions does not mean lower power anymore (at least for the LS).
You guys hassle me enough about the power of the V6 already!
Wish me luck guys, I'm going to a shop with a Hunter tomorrow. They work on performance & race cars. The guy I talked to sounded like he's heard my type of vibration complaint before. With any luck this will be the last time I'm whining about vibrations.
glenns2, thanks, but that link doesn't work. I know I saw what you described on the console, it must have been on that site. Hopefully the info can be retrieved and put on the LLSOC site.
ezaricon4jc: I agree with you completely. After 17 Tarurus's every year it was a guessing game as to what the bean counters would remove from new models. I hope the LS doesn't fall to the same fate. The loss or rear disks and dual exhaust still sticks in my craw.
sdouglas2: I agree with you I thought I read somewhere that the LS being a low emissions vehicle only had one version. In any case I think there are now about a dozen states, including most in the northeast that require California emissions equipment, so on cars that have different emissions versions it's more like 38 / 12 state versions.
Speaking of the V-6, and I have a 2/00 built Manual, why does it seem that even with a relatively high compression ratio, the use of premium gas, and the Direct Acting Buckets (the use of different heads), this engine seems so weak at the lower rpms until you really get into it. It's like it had a four-barrel with primaries and secondaries. Is this the design of the emmissions system? Does it go open loop on WOT? Is it a function of the car's heavy weight and the lower low end torque of a 4 valver? Does the Duratech just lack the design of a high output per liter engine? Some big hp engines do it on regular gas. Thanks, Stan
There exists a case when high flowing intake charge is not a good thing, i.e. at low rpm. With more cross sectional area for the intake charge to travel, its velocity decreases. The decrease in the charge velocity negatively impacts the filling of the cylinder and the result is lower power. This loss in low-end power is more than offset by the increase in higher rpm power from the increased flow. Ford used to do a nifty thing on the early 4 valve V8 engines; there were a set of butterflies that closed off one of the two intake ports at low speed, which increased low end power. I believe this system isn't used anymore because of making it OBD-II compliant would have cost too much money and may not have been very robust, i.e. false triggering of the check engine light.
To answer your question on open loop at WOT, I'm pretty sure every petrol engine out there goes into open loop enrichment at WOT. This is based on thinking the customer wants max power at WOT. Even though closed-loop operation keeps you operating at stoichiometry - no combustion is complete - there is a bit of excess O2 in the cylinder that you can take advantage of by running a little rich in open loop.
To answer your questions about octane and other manufacturers, you can't compare apples to oranges. For example, there's a certain high output 2.0L (not a Ford engine) that was in the market a few years back that was rated at 140 hp and ran on regular gas. That HP figure was run on an engine dynamometer using Indolene fuel (~93 or 94 r+m/2 octane) with the knock sensor disconnected. Real-world power was more like 128-132 hp. I'm not saying that our competiors lie, but we may not know the entire story. With the LS, we did our best to make maximum power and wrung what we could out of it. That's why I'm always reminding the board not to be taken in by "Chip Tuners" that promise more HP by changing the engine calibration - with the current engine *hardware*, there's not much more to be made with the V6. That's not to say the design is at the end of its potential, or that it isn't as advanced as competitor engines (I'm not privy to thier secrets ).
The 7/9/01 issue of AutoWeek has a nice cover story on the much improved '02 Maxima update. Biggest news is the 260 hp 3.5L V-6. Torque up to 249 lb-ft. Uses VVT and other improvements to pump up the jam. Nissan deliberately moving it upscale. Will come with things like Brake Assist and EBD. Still uses the lame non-independent beam axle, which the new Altima (also available with the 3.5L V-6) ditches. And has a 6-speed manual available! Will be interesting to see how much the price rises along with the additional equipment/features.
Lincoln better get moving. This edition of the Maxima was redesigned in '00. This is just a mid-life cycle freshening.
This is my 12th failure with this !@#$%^ LS after just over 15-months and 15K miles. I used the 'global open' feature in this 90-degree heat and the drivers-rear window broke open. This is the second rear window failure, passenger-rear went with only 2K miles and these are known defects that Lincoln is not issuing a recall for. They just let us owners suffer with the break-downs and put-up with the inconveniences of poor service at their 'Presidents Award' dealershit. I cannot recommend this car with far too many defects for a $40K car, more defects than my prior 3 cars (all imports - Nissan, Honda, VW) combined. The worst is - I don't trust this car! Too many problems and the 'Lincoln Commitment' isn't worth the paper its written on - the dealer never calls to update me or confirm anything, I alway have to case them - so much for customer care and this is from their 'Presidents Award' dealershit. I'm venting, thanks for listenting...
In first 20,000 miles my '00 LS8 Sport had repeated problems with heated seats and intermittent airbag. I dumped one poor dealer (who shortly after dropped L-M products to sell only Toyotas) and found a better one. I told them I wasn't satisfied with level of service, esp. with loaner cars. Think they've tried to listen. Service isn't as good as with my former Infinit products but isn't too bad. And now I always get a decent loaner for routine service or maintenance. Haven't had any problems in past 7,500 miles. Knock on wood.
I had my tires / wheels checked on a Hunter today. The result is: All 4 rims were near perfect. The tires, Right rear: perfect as tested with 0.5oz weight on it, Left rear: needed .25 oz weight added, Left front: needed .75 oz weight, .5 on inside & .25 on outside. Right front: First try it said that the tire road force variation was 29 lb. above limit, the wheel was good but the tire could not be matched to the rim by rotating the tire on the rim. Removed the weights (1.5 oz total) and a small stone found in the tread and ran it again. This time road force was in limits but it wanted 1.25 oz of weights. After adding the weights an running it again it came out good, but there was some visible wobble in the tire. The tech said is was a very small amount of wobble compared to other tires he's seen.
The bottom line: The good news is that no my steering wheel no longer visibly shakes at highway speeds and it feels smoother below 65 MPH. The bad news is that I still have the 71 MPH vibration, which I can still feel in the steering wheel. It feels like one vibration has been removed making the other one clearer. On to the drive shaft next.
The shop manual (ver. 10/1999) call for 100 Lb-Ft or 135 Nm in section 204-04-9. There is no differential between Sport or Non-Sport models, nor for wheel size.
Dude. Welcome to the world of cars, not just Lincoln. I agree, if one window regulator fails, and the manufacturer knows its a "weak" or faulty component, why not fix both at the same time? Answer? Money. Most folks dont read these boards. Many of these regulators mite fail post warranty, so instead of losing money on a warranty part, the dealer MAKES money off of the failure. Lincoln/Ford is not alone in this.
On my previous car, a 3 series BMW, every single interior door panel "bubbled" up. (The vinyl on the interior panel lost its adhesive "stick", and began to pull away from the door causing a big "bubble" in the panel. Happened to thousands of BMW's. Dealer knew exactly what the problem was. Said he understood my concern for wanting all of the interior panels replaced at the same time, since they all were designed the same, and all used the same adhesive. He said thats not BMW's policy. Replace the faulty, failed part only. If others fail, bring it in, and if the car was under warranty, they would still replace it. If not, they would "consider" a goodwill gesture of replacement. (This goodwill is usually based on how much money youve spent on maintenance at the dealer). In the end, every single one of my interior panels failed, fortunately , all before the warranty ran out. All were replaced with a more improved version that never failed during my ownership.
Thats just one of BMW's hidden defects. Interested in more good reading on known defects by BMW, that to this day arent treated as recalls? Go to:
The shop manual (ver. 10/1999) call for 100 Lb-Ft or 135 Nm in section 204-04-9. There is no differential between Sport or Non-Sport models, nor for wheel size.
"Dude. Welcome to the world of cars..." is not the answer for owners who have legitimate problems with their LS. This attitude mirrors what many hear from less than stellar dealers everyday. The expectation should be for superior service, not no worse than X model". I also do not know what an early 90's BMW series problem list has to do with this buyers issues.
cb44. I didnt say I agree with the policy of not replacing a known defective part, Im pointing out what occurs in the real world of the automotive industry. You cant get that? I agree that failing window regulators appears to be a widespread problem with the LS. And yes, I agree that the right thing for Lincoln to do would be to issue a recall notice. You think Lincoln engineers arent aware the part is faulty? Of course they do, thats why they manufactured a better replacement thats now in use. Im saying, dont hold your breath for a recall just because you think one is in order. As far as the BMW reference, I was showing Mr. lincolnsucks that this type of issue is abound with most ALL auto manufacturers, not just Lincoln.
Comments
"--Lincoln LS had its best sales month ever and Lincoln Town Car hit its best June sales total since 1995. "
http://e-automechanic.com/domestic/
Maybe the future 2005 will be for the larger LS that can take on the Caddy -STS.
Having shared the road with many of the combine pilots in Alberta and Saskatchewan, I can assure you that many more "full size" cars are sold up there because in a skidding environment, F=MA -- these folks have figured out that bit of physics.
I'd dearly love to believe that Canada is leading the way in illustrating that the LS is superior to anything else being sold in its niche. . .but I think not.
What are the relative sales figures? How many Town Cars vs. LS's vs. Navigators vs. whatever else were sold in 2000 & 2001, in Canada, in the US, worldwide? Should the LS really matter to Lincoln on a percentage basis (dollars or units, pick your poison)? And, as I think most of the folks who post here regularly will attest, we're a miniscule percentage of the LS crowd. The bulk of the people who buy LS's could care less about most of what's discussed here.
Just curious.
What is the latest, Jim?
We can read about it in car mags eventually, but can you give the faithful here an idea of upcoming engine, trans and styling changes and dates?
Step 2: Rev to 5,000 RPM.
Step 3: Dump clutch.
You can lay rubber in just about any clutch-equipped vehicle that has enough horsepower to at least get out of it's own way, Yugos and various Le Cars excluded.
Is McEnroe still playing tennis? At least Lincoln is showing the manual doing something other than being a tie-rack.
Six-speed Manuals are growing. Almost every manufacturer is using the Getrag unit because it doesn't pay to manufacture your own at the volumes used. Audi,MB,Focus,Acura,Nissan SE-R, and more have or will install the six-speed Getrag. LM has got to wake up on this issue if only for EPA/Cafe reasons. The current LS Manual has a hard time breaking 20 mpg. 3000 rpm at 75 mph is quite extreme. An overdrive tranny would allow lower rpm, better mileage AND a lower rear ratio for better acceleration. VVT would add the hp/torque needed, and I,m sure this Manual LS would break the 7 second barrier. All Acura would have to do is bring out a RWD platform and LM would have to give up DEW-lite as non-competitive. After reading Babicka's referenced article at e-mechanic.com, I see we have a bigger problem here than just the bean-counters running the show. A bigger issue is that LM's target is the piggy STS and not the BMW 5 series. Let's make a "luxury" car for the STS buyers and a "performance-luxury" car for those of us who don't want the eel-skin seats and landau tops. It's enough they waste the Northstar on that FWD platform and the geriatric set. I'll get an STS when I need a place to plug in my pacemaker but not before.
I had an opportunity to drive a non CA-emission/3.31-rear LS-V6M in May '99. Rev. to 1500, release clutch (not drop it) and give gas just as clutch starts engaging, result - wheel chirp. Wheel chirp occurred at 4000 rpm (at speed) in both 2nd and 3rd gears, with four occupants in the car. Acceleration was nothing to write home about but it was adequate. This was moderately aggressive driving, not a 0-60, as fast as possible, run. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the CA-emissions engine can give similar performance - the 3.07 rear doesn't help.
My concern is >40% sales are CA-emission vehicles and in no way, shape or form will these meet the implied "pony-power" behavior of the commercial. Not the way to gain new customers.
A more appropriate commercial would be a bunch of LS-V8's on an empty lot playing a game of Polo, thus showing off the handling of the LS - though I think another car company has already done such a commercial.
Like Rene, I'm happy to stick with Lincoln, based on my current experience. But I don't want to have to choose between a Volvo-inspired LSLuxury and a Mustang-derived LSSport. We are so, so close to having it ALL with this car right now, it would be a crying shame to abandon the concept.
I notice that both Chrysler and Cadillac are returning to RWD platforms. Hmmmmm.......
For those of you wondering, temp at it peak was 124 degrees in Palm Springs, but it didn't feel one degree over 100. It rained and that is when it got humid, it felt worse when it was 95 and humid than 120 w/o humidity. In any event, the reason for the temp post is because I was suprised when we returned to the LS after it sat in the sun. On the few occasions it did, the interior was always managable, not too hot, and the med parchment seats never once were too hot or uncomfortable to sit on (with shorts and a tank top). We set the a/c on Auto and temp down to 60 and the car would cool down to a reasonable temp in a minute and then in about 3-5 minutes, it would start to chill. Great a/c response and the interior staying cool was beyond my expectations. I always dreaded the leather and the hot climate, but now, I have nothing to fear.
On the way back, we took Hwy 74 south out of Palm Desert down to Hwy 371, to Hwy 79, to Temecula. An interesting drive up into the mountains and back out with some great vistas and a few fun curves to boot. I recommend it for all Southern Cali folk that visit Palm Springs. I even saw another black LS headed in the opposite direction.
Speaking of seeing LS's, I lost count, but in the week we were in Palm Springs, we saw at least 12 LS's. Maybe Hertz is having a field day renting them there, or maybe the desert owners just love the LS.
As for the Edmunds reviewers, their purchase criteria are not similar to mine, so while the LS rates low in their book, it is top notch in mine, especially since it offers the performance and interior size mix. Those other cars just don't compare if you weight these two criteria heavier. And as for build quality, I have not had any creeks they speak of and road noise is minimal and non-noticable when the radio is on at a reasonable level. I am sticking by my purchase and hoping that in 2003, I will have a reason to upgrade.
since I got my LS 8.
As for the link that had future product information speculation, the info. on that site seemed pretty dated, pre-2001 model intro., so I'm not sure how accurate it is these days. There was some speculation that there would be a stretched LS to replace the Continental, not the LS, that seems more like what that site was referring to. At the risk of being ostracized from this site I would like my LS to be a little bigger, about 1" more front leg room and 2" more rear leg room + about 2 cu ft. more trunk room. It would make the LS a lot more practical for long trips, giowa could even take it on a trip and have room for a couple of Genny 30 packs on his way home.
Note that the future product web site said that the baby LS was going to be based upon the Mondeo / X type platform whereas I think Brian has said it would be made on a shortened LS I'm not sure what a short LS would create as to me rear seat leg room is already in short supply on the present LS.
This issue of MT, p. 25, also mentions the Acura CL Type-S will have the 6-speed manual this fall and that a 6-speed "should follow" for TL Type-S by "fall of 2002". Article wonders if there is a chance for a 6-speed Accord V-6 in '03 MY.
I've been searching for the thread but haven't been able to find it. Does anyone have the P/N for the 2001 console cover with the new cup holders? Also, if I remember right all I need to change is the cover although there is going to be a slight mismatch to a cutout in the console base.
If you are interested, follow that link and - as the creator says - come discuss "the trade offs between the best of what the USA has to offer."
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Please do that and let us know what you hear!
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
As you know I cannot say much about our future product but I can say that we will not "mess up" the LS; we will just make it better.
Also, I would like to thank all of you who have contacted me with comments or issues about the LS. Your thoughts are always more than welcome. Feel free to contact me at jroger19@ford.com.
I'll rest easier knowing that my next LS will be better and not a "de-contented" version of what I have now.
Thanks also for your gracious offer.
Artie
Mike, lovin the car more and more. I can't wait to drive again!
Besides, if there were a difference, it would not change the power output of the car; they would be equal. Honest!
You guys hassle me enough about the power of the V6 already!
Scooter
glenns2, thanks, but that link doesn't work. I know I saw what you described on the console, it must have been on that site. Hopefully the info can be retrieved and put on the LLSOC site.
ezaricon4jc: I agree with you completely. After 17 Tarurus's every year it was a guessing game as to what the bean counters would remove from new models. I hope the LS doesn't fall to the same fate. The loss or rear disks and dual exhaust still sticks in my craw.
sdouglas2: I agree with you I thought I read somewhere that the LS being a low emissions vehicle only had one version. In any case I think there are now about a dozen states, including most in the northeast that require California emissions equipment, so on cars that have different emissions versions it's more like 38 / 12 state versions.
Is it a function of the car's heavy weight and the lower low end torque of a 4 valver? Does the Duratech just lack the design of a high output per liter engine? Some big hp engines do it on regular gas. Thanks, Stan
To answer your question on open loop at WOT, I'm pretty sure every petrol engine out there goes into open loop enrichment at WOT. This is based on thinking the customer wants max power at WOT. Even though closed-loop operation keeps you operating at stoichiometry - no combustion is complete - there is a bit of excess O2 in the cylinder that you can take advantage of by running a little rich in open loop.
To answer your questions about octane and other manufacturers, you can't compare apples to oranges. For example, there's a certain high output 2.0L (not a Ford engine) that was in the market a few years back that was rated at 140 hp and ran on regular gas. That HP figure was run on an engine dynamometer using Indolene fuel (~93 or 94 r+m/2 octane) with the knock sensor disconnected. Real-world power was more like 128-132 hp. I'm not saying that our competiors lie, but we may not know the entire story. With the LS, we did our best to make maximum power and wrung what we could out of it. That's why I'm always reminding the board not to be taken in by "Chip Tuners" that promise more HP by changing the engine calibration - with the current engine *hardware*, there's not much more to be made with the V6. That's not to say the design is at the end of its potential, or that it isn't as advanced as competitor engines (I'm not privy to thier secrets
Whoops, there goes my lunch break :^)
Scooter
Lincoln better get moving. This edition of the Maxima was redesigned in '00. This is just a mid-life cycle freshening.
I cannot recommend this car with far too many defects for a $40K car, more defects than my prior 3 cars (all imports - Nissan, Honda, VW) combined.
The worst is - I don't trust this car!
Too many problems and the 'Lincoln Commitment' isn't worth the paper its written on - the dealer never calls to update me or confirm anything, I alway have to case them - so much for customer care and this is from their 'Presidents Award' dealershit.
I'm venting, thanks for listenting...
The bottom line: The good news is that no my steering wheel no longer visibly shakes at highway speeds and it feels smoother below 65 MPH. The bad news is that I still have the 71 MPH vibration, which I can still feel in the steering wheel. It feels like one vibration has been removed making the other one clearer. On to the drive shaft next.
The shop manual (ver. 10/1999) call for 100 Lb-Ft or 135 Nm in section 204-04-9. There is no differential between Sport or Non-Sport models, nor for wheel size.
The Lincoln LS Workshop manual states 100 lb-ft. I remember placing a lot of weight on the torque wrench to get to that point.
Wes
On my previous car, a 3 series BMW, every single interior door panel "bubbled" up. (The vinyl on the interior panel lost its adhesive "stick", and began to pull away from the door causing a big "bubble" in the panel. Happened to thousands of BMW's. Dealer knew exactly what the problem was. Said he understood my concern for wanting all of the interior panels replaced at the same time, since they all were designed the same, and all used the same adhesive. He said thats not BMW's policy. Replace the faulty, failed part only. If others fail, bring it in, and if the car was under warranty, they would still replace it. If not, they would "consider" a goodwill gesture of replacement. (This goodwill is usually based on how much money youve spent on maintenance at the dealer). In the end, every single one of my interior panels failed, fortunately , all before the warranty ran out. All were replaced with a more improved version that never failed during my ownership.
Thats just one of BMW's hidden defects. Interested in more good reading on known defects by BMW, that to this day arent treated as recalls? Go to:
http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-332B-25CEFA1C-3A1E2F40-prod5
You can see how the almighty "BMW" fares against Lincoln.
The shop manual (ver. 10/1999) call for 100 Lb-Ft or 135 Nm in section 204-04-9. There is no differential between Sport or Non-Sport models, nor for wheel size.
As far as the BMW reference, I was showing Mr. lincolnsucks that this type of issue is abound with most ALL auto manufacturers, not just Lincoln.