Your comment about the number of diesel powered cars got me to wonder about fuel costs. While diesel might be cheaper in Europe, here in Phoenix, diesel costs the same as premium. From where I sit, I can see no advantage or incentive to purchase a diesel powered vehicle (unless I were to need a tow vehicle for a fifth wheel or travel trailer). What are the Germans and Swiss paying for fuel, and how many fuel types can they choose from?
1. ronniepooh: So all you do is drive your LS6 Sport auto in DC beltway? Last times I was there I remember nothing but traffic jams. Hours of stop and go. Traffic backed up everywhere for miles. So why exactly does your LS suit crowded roads? Ones that don't let you use your car's capabilities? Sounds to me like a diesel Jetta or Honda Insight would better meet your needs. But can't fathom why you would need an LS.
2. The MT published test of LS6 Sport manual used 3:31:1 final drive. C&D's tests of LS6 Sport manual and base auto used 3:07:1 and 3:58:1 final drive ratios, respectively.
3. Don't think Jag S-type uses manual tranny anywhere. Does anyone know for sure?
Just took a look at at the jag web site for the S type. A manual transmission is offered for UK buyers but not US buyers. I guess you will have to go to the UK to make the purchase then import it yourself!
Keyrow: What engine(s) come with the manual? And is it 5-speed or 6-speed? Getrag? (Wouldn't surprise me if Jag has to add a turbo-diesel in next couple years. Diesels have about 40 percent of European market and rising.)
Only the X-Type 2.5 and 3.0 and S-Type 3.0 offer the manual as an option. It is a five speed so I ASSUME it is the same Getrag we have in our V6M LS. The web site did not give specific details about the equipment offered.
Welcome back to the discussion, I've enjoyed your perspective and input in the past and I'm looking forward to your continued input.
While I completely agree that the polar moment of inertia would be a very telling piece of information with regard to the discussion comparing the handling characteristics of the LS6 and LS8, I can't say that I've ever heard of anyone actually citing it before. Further, other than someone with an engineering background (I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering), I'm not sure if anyone would know what the *ell a polar moment of inertia is or what it means! At first glance, one would assume that since the LS8 weighs more, and, as can be noted by the increased front-end bias in weight distribution of the LS8, that the LS6 would have a more favorable polar moment of inertia. But, as you say, depending upon where the additional weight is added relative to the center of gravity, it does not necessarily favor the LS6 and MAY, in fact, favor the LS8!
Overall, I'd say far too much time and effort has been expended on trying to debate handling advantages/disadvantages that the various LS models embody. As consumers, we can only go on data/information provided by through "normal" channels (magazines, sales brochurs, etc.). With the LS, we also can count on Ford/Lincoln folks that participate on this board! A professional driver may add some useful insight to this discussion, but I doubt that "mere mortals" could really distinguish a meaningful handling difference between the LS6 and LS8 sport models.
The early tested cars were not "ringers". The original cars had 3.31 and 3.58 gears as was published in all the brochures and spec sheets. They were changed a few months into the production cycle (around September 99 IIRC). Speculation was that it was due to Ford's CAFE compliance problems that year.
Hey, are you talkin' 'bout my neighbor? He's overweight, lazin' around in retirement, and previously diagnosed bi-polar. Talk about his polar moment of inertia!
Concur with lolaj42. LS6 and LS8 Sport models will handle more comparably than non-Sport and vice versa. The .77g C&D test result on their LS6 auto base is indicative of the differences.
I wonder if any 3.31 V6 manuals were ever shipped to the public. If I remember right manual V6's didn't ship until Sept 1999 and had 3.07 rear ends at that time which was about when the V8 rear ends changed. Does anyone here have a 3.31 manual? (If one shows up please control yourself stanny1). I will concede that there are V8's out there with 3.58 rear ends.
Was just up in Maine and put 1400+ miles on my LS8. Paying as low as $1.429 for 93 octane made putting on the miles a lot easier. I saw 87 octane for as low as $1.249. Us suckers who live in the high income states are sure getting ripped off. Here in CT 93 octane dropped from $1.889 all the way down to $1.799 while I was away.
I just checked out the MotorWeek article and note an anomaly. The llsoc site shows a torque curve that is "flat" at 200 lbs/ft from 3000 to 5200. The LS-V6M that I had had torque turn-on at 3000 and then noticeably more torque at 4000 (and poor acceleration). The MotorWeek people clearly state: "makes good power above 2,000 rpm, hitting hardest at 4,000 rpm and up", which doesn't match the llsoc torque curve. They tested in Maryland. Is Maryland a NE-emissions state and thus a CA. emissions LS was tested?
Ask a question, get an answer the next morning -- two in fact. Thanks to fantom & lola42. I'm certainly not in the market at the moment, but in a few years, I'll definitely give Audi a shout. May pick up a brochure or two in the meantime, just to see what's up (down, boy -- sometimes that's a bad idea). Anyway, thanks much for the prompt information and thoughts.
I agree that there's absolutely no point in trying to get a diesel for use in the U. S., even if you could (guess it's still a Mercedes option), since the fuel costs are nearly identical. What I noticed yesterday was that there were four fuels available at the autobahn service plazas, two grades of gasoline, diesel and benzine. I haven't had a chance to ask what that "benzin" or whatever is all about. Knowling this group, one or more of you already knows. Could be that fuel is cheaper away from the autobahns; I have to go out in the sticks a bit to get to work today, so I'll check it out. It's about a two-hour drive north of Frankfurt to where I'll be the rest of the week. Finally, the actual price was ~2 DM/litre (~$1) in Germany for the gasoline & about 20% less for diesel. Similar percentage difference in Switzerland, but I don't know the exchange rate for the Swiss Franc (or whatever the currency is -- the Euro appears to only be used in the big international hotels, and then along with the local currency), so don't know how it compares to Germany.
On the pollution thing, at least from a smell standpoint, unless I was fueling the vehicle, I can't tell it's a diesel -- noisier though. Some of the older diesels appeared to smoke a bit under low-speed acceleration, but didn't see any of that from the new cars. As was pointed out, catalytic converters are probably the answer.
One comment on polar moment. A few hundred pounds difference in the front of the car is likely to be undetectable to anyone who doesn't race cars for a living (IMHO), but the difference between a mid-engine car and either a front or rear engine car could make a difference. Point being, for sedans, weight on the wheels is going to the stay the key point. How long do you think we'll have to wait for a mid-engine LS? Probably in almost the same league as a V8 stick, sadly, even though one's fanciful/ridiculous and the other's completely within (theoretical) reason.
Not to mkake a big deal out of this, but by using a bit of deductive reasoning, one can assume the following items.
1. I'm pretty sure that the length of the transmission and driveshaft is the same for the V6 and V8, (FWIW my shop manual doesn't mention any difference)
2. since the above lengths are the same, (and to enable the use of the same console, shifter, etc.) the only way to get a V8 engine is to add the length of those two extra cylinders (over a V6) to the front of where the V6 block ends.
Given the above, it is obvious that the extra weight of the V8 over the V6 must be farther out from the vehicle CG.
I do agree that the difference is small, and probably not noticeable in the average daily grind. However, when I drove the V6 manual vs the V8 auto at the Lincoln "ride and drive" I attended, the V6 definitely felt a bit more nimble than the V8 on the slalom course. (all the V8's were the sport model)
The topic of rear end ratios came up way back at the beginning of this board. If my memory serves me correctly, one of the Factory engineers stated that there were no production 3.31 V6 Manuals ever built, they were all 3.07's. The ratio was changed before production for fuel economy reasons. Now, I sure would love to know what ratio the V6 manual I drove in that "ride and drive" had. (May '99 - Arlington Park race track)
The story I heard from the factory boys is that all the production Manuals had 3:07 rears. Joe may have driven a 3:31 if it was a pre-production Manual. The bigger question is if the mags tested 3:31's or they just copied the early literature. I don't think even Consumer Reports verifies rear ratios, and Car and Drivers test of the new T-Bird even said that the car has "3:58, limited slip"!!! I E-mailed the author of the article and have yet to get a reply to verify this info. I can believe 3:58, I hope for the limited slip but I doubt it is real. I would be bugging the Ford guys for a part # in a New York minute!!! I really don't lust after a 3:31 or 3:58 without the overdrive tranny to go with it. Otherwise, it's simply self-abuse to suffer 3400 rpm at 75mph. 93 octane is down to $1.95 and I have yet to break 20 mpg. I don't need to make it worse!
All the posts are saying there is no advantage to diesel because the price is almost the same as regular gas. Don't ignore the significant advantage in MPG. For instance:
2001 VW - Beetle, Jetta, Golf gas = 25 city 31 hwy 2001 VW - Same three cars w/diesel 42 city 49 hwy
This site sure has been active.....64 posts since I was last here. In reply to giowa, I would qualify my thoughts regarding the V-6 vs. V-8 handling for a couple of reasons. First of all, as I said in my previous post, the V-6's that I drove were loaner cars. Therefore I can't vouch for how the tires were inflated, if the front end alignment was "right-on", if the gas tank was full, and all of the other variables that influence a car's ultimate behavior. Secondly, as we all know, loaner/rental cars tend to get more abuse that "owned" cars. The first loaner that I drove (the one my friend had) still drove fairly well, therefore the LS went on my list as a car to consider. It's seat-of-the-pants acceleration and handling were both impressive to me, knowing that it was a V-6 powered car. The second LS that I drove was the one that I test drove prior to purchasing it. This was a V-8, and I was more impressed, but I'm sure that it's cleanliness and new car tightness were responsible for this perception or "feel". Secondly, my wife and I took this car for an extended drive before deciding to buy it, so we were able to get a good idea on how the car behaved. I've had the loaners myself a couple of times since, but it's just for a quick jog back and forth between work and the dealer, not long enough to make a really meaningful comparison. Nonetheless, IMHO, I'm willing to sacrifice the slight handling balance that the V-6 probably has in order to gain the acceleration advantage that the V-8 has. An 18 wheeler tried to squeeze me behind himself and some slow moving traffic on I-95 south, a couple of weeks ago, down in North Carolina. He must have thought that he was dealing with a "blue hair"...... 70 MPH to 100 MPH happened pretty quickly. Sure surprised that Kenworth !!! In closing, I don't want to start any wars, but years ago, when I was running an oval track car, we did make weight adjustments as small as 20-30 pounds. Yes, I understand that's a race car, but nonetheless, if you're attuned to it, it's noticeable, everything else being constant. Happy Motoring !!!
I apologize if the answer to my question is somewhere in prior postings but I could not find it.
I noticed on the "recommended tire size / pressure" label (located on the rear passenger door stop) that P245/45/17 was listed as an option. Anybody had experience with this size compared to the P235's (in terms of handling, comfort, road noise, etc.)? Thanks.
Just found this site - it's great! Got questions. I have a 2000 LSV8 non sport purchased last June. Has anyone had to replace their factory Firestone tires after only one year? I read Edmunds long term test drive and I think in March they had to do the same. Has anyone else had to? Is this normal? Thanks!
The Firestones are on sale for $82 on a web site ( will remain unnamed). That is half price. At that price are they worth storing for 24 months. Is it possible they were poorly built as well?
AutoWeek said it mailed paper surveys to a random 1 percent of its readership, for a total of 3,400 surveys. Responses numbered 396, and the magazine published the Best American Cars list in its July 2, 2001, edition.
Here's the complete list of AutoWeek's 10 Best American cars for 2001, followed by their ranking a year earlier, in 2000:
Vehicle Rank in 2000 1. Chevrolet Corvette 1 2. Ford F-150 3 3. Dodge Viper 6 4. Ford Mustang 7 5. Ford Focus 10 6. Lincoln LS 5 7. Cadillac Seville 4 8. Ford Taurus 9 9. Chrysler PT Cruiser 8 10. Chrysler 300M 2
I tried the kind that flatten out at the end and they did not look good on the LS. We finally got some round ones and cut the plastic with tin sheers. It looks great and cuts like butter. If you don't cut the plastic, the pipes point down at about a 30 degree angle. Yeech!
$82 is NOT half price. I don't remember tirerack's old price but it was just above $100 and nowhere near $164. But $82 is a great price if you want the Firehawks. I'm going with the new Michelins that they're putting on the T-Bird when it's time to replace mine. After putting Michelins on a couple of SUVs and a pickup I'm a customer for life. I don't mind paying a little extra.
Jim, we are sad to see you leave since you had a hand in creating a bunch of loyal domestic car fanatics including yourself that has not been seen since the early Corvette days.
I believe that part of this enthusiasm has been caused by all of us LS owners recognizing early on that Lincoln had a viable alternative to BMW that could stand on its own.
We felt good knowing that you drove an LS with custom springs and modified exhaust. That told us that you clearly understood the potential of the LS.
Please do us a favor and transfer your LS to Anne so that the message that Lincoln can really eat in to BMW market share continues. Once she drives your car, she will know why we all bought an LS.
Good luck in your new postion. Clearly you should now we able to get us more HP and Torgue!!!!
I replaced the stock firestones at 24,000 miles, the tread was gone and the wear bars visible on my non-sport LS-8.
Although my former Lincoln dealer said there was no tread wear warrantee, the tires are waranteed for 60,000 miles. I replaced them with Bridgestone Teranza Revos and got $100 per tire credit toward the Bridgestones. The Teranza Revos are a big step up from the Firestones.
Be sure to get the V speed rating for your tires, the Firestone service center did need to order them for me.
If you log on to LLSOC.com, you'll find an extensive wheel/tire discussion. Some owners have upgraded to 245/18's. You can read their impressions there. I think you'll find it quite enlightening.
I just made a huge reduction in the vibrations in my LS. After the check & re-balance on a Hunter only made a slight reduction in the vibration, I decided to rotate the tires since both front tires had the most weight and the right front tire was the one that initially was out of spec. on the Hunter. I could also see visible wobble in that tire when it rotated on the Hunter. I didn't want to rotate the tires at the time of re-balance because changing more than one thing at a time doesn't let you know what really made the difference. Now with the 2 tires with the lowest amount of weight on the front, the steering wheel shake is gone although I can still feel some, but considerably less vibration in it. The vibration is now more noticeable at 75 MPH (used to be 71 MPH) and it only appears about 20% of the time whereas I used to feel it around 80% of the time. When the vibration does occur, its sound and feel is still the same as before so I must conclude that what I am feeling and hearing is a secondary resonance somewhere in the LS. In any case this secondary resonance should be a fix item for Lincoln, especially if they want to compete with BMW, Audi, etc. I'd sure like to know if engineering is aware of the problem and has a resolution in the works for the 2003 LS. Also of concern to me is that after 5 trips to the dealer and a test drive by the local FoMoCo field engineer they could not really do anything about the vibration. I still cannot belive that the FoMoCo field engineer could say all vibrations and noises in my LS were in spec. when there was visible shake in the steering wheel!
Viscosity requirements are the same for synthetic as for dino oil. AFAIK Lincoln makes no recommendation on brands of synoil, but the dealers carry Motorcraft, which is what I've been using. I have a slight (perhaps pointless) preference for Mobil 1, but only because of previous experience. The Motorcraft is full synthetic, as opposed to a blend. I have inquired on the synoil board what oil company makes the Motorcraft synoil (doubt Ford refines their own motor oil), but have been told that's nearly impossible to find out. It seems to work just fine. Instant oil flow on very cold mornings. The morning after I made the switch it was around 5 deg F and I could tell a difference in the way the engine sounded the first few seconds of running. My dealer says they'll get me any oil I want, or I could bring my own, but it's easier to let them use what they stock, and the price is comparable. Guess I'll know if I'm making the right choice in another four years or so when it's got 120k+ on it.
On the Firehawks: I like them, and the only reason I don't buy a set at $82 per and stash them away is that I already did it when they were on sale for $106. FWIW I think you're close on the half-price deal, if you compare them to what they cost last year.
I've owned my 2000 Sport LS since Jan. 2000 (build date of 10/99), and have nothing but praise for this car - I enjoy going anywhere just to drive it. However, I'm starting to experience nagging little annoyances:
1) Seek button on the radio broke the other day - it still works, but you don't get the noticeable rocking motion, so I fear it's only a matter of time before it completely breaks. I'm hesitant to have it fixed as I've installed the Exoticwood piece on the radio, and I'm afraid it will get ruined by a technician attempting to replace the rocker switch.
2) "Check Advancetrak" warning regularly displayed on the message center. When displayed, the Advancetrak button next to the cupholders doesn't work.
3) A/C unit not working properly - when you press the re-circulate button, you don't get that extra blast of air. I don't think that's normal.
Maybe I'm being too picky, but I never had these types of problems in my previous Accord or Maxima. Any comments or thoughts?
1)I have had a radio problem as well. The auto-speed volume setting wont change. I've adjusted it numerous times before, but as of about 2 months ago, it won't respond to my attempts to adjust it. I plan to pull the fuse for the radio to see if that "resets" anything, allowing me to change it. Minor issue I can live with until my next dealer visit.
2)This is one reason I held out on the AdvanceTrak option when I purchased my LS. Whenever possible, I tend to stay away from 1st year technology implementation...sort of like my tendency to stay away from Beta versions of software. I've seen a few posts on this board regarding AdvanceTrak error messages/failures, but don't think I've seen a single post about Traction control errors/failures. Hopefully your problem is minor, and will easily be fixed under warranty. Stability control is a great safety feature, though.
3)Ive been in some cars where pressing the recirculate button does noticeably amd audibly increase the airflow, and others where it doesnt. Might not be a problem...I would test it out on another LS on the lot next time you are at the dealer.
I just took my 2001 LS8 Sport in for it's complimentary 10K servicing. I pointed out to the dealer that the message center said to change the A/C cabin air filter. Turns out that move cost me $47.35 despite being listed as a complimentary maintenance item in the 2001 Lincoln Commitment Booklet!
Lincoln's response is they will replace the cabin air filter at 15K intervals for free. So what is the purpose of the message center in this vehicle? I guess it's there to annoy you and remind you to buy a BMW next time.
I think the LS is a decent car. I am not sure that Lincoln is a decent company, forcing customers to pay $1200 for complimentary maintenance and then annoying them with $47 nickel and dime crap.
If the complimentary service clearly uses mileage intervals (and from your statement it sounds like it does - I have a 2000 so I don't have it) then I don't see the problem. Simply reset the message center message and ignore it, and have the service done according to the mileage schedule. Same for the oil change. I do believe that the dealer should have told you that you would have to pay for the cabin filter change - if they did not and you didn't sign anything saying you would pay for it, then they shouldn't charge you.
All LS' don't have the message center. (V6 w/o convenience pkg e.g.) All LS' aren't covered by complimentary service (my 2000 isn't). The complimentary service doesn't apply after the warranty period.
Sounds like the only problem was that the dealer didn't tell you there was a charge. I don't see where Lincoln is at fault if their complimentary maintenance documents say it's changed at 15K.
My V6M with convenience package does not have a message center. Are we uncovering a conspiracy here? BTW ... missed the news about Jim Rogers. Where is he going?
I do plan to test the A/C on another LS. It definitely is blowing less than normal; the good thing is that it's still cold. With the 98 degree heat here in Boston this week, I'm saying my prayers it doesn't quit completely.
For Model Years 2000 and 2001, the Electronic Message Center was available only on V8s. Here is what the artsy MY2000 & MY2001 LS sales brochures say:
"Electronic Message Center (standard on V8 model)"
"Convenience Package, Standard with V8, optional with V6 [MY '00 says "optional with V6 manual and automatic"]: Electrochromatic interior rearview Mirror [MY '01 adds "with compass], HomeLink programmable garage door opener, Moisture-sensitive windshield wipers, Memory driver's seat, steering wheel and exterior mirrors [MY '00 says "8-way power driver seat with 2-driver memory recall], Power driver and front passenger lumbar adjustment".
Text of brochure says "Standard on V8 models, the Electronic Message Center allows the driver a quick, convenient way to obtain information on vital engine systems, maintenance requirements and fuel availability [MY '01 adds: "--helping to create the best driving experience possible."
The initial detailed MY 2000 sales brochure (silver and black cover with pull-out technical spec section) clearly shows "Message Center--Electronic" is available only with "LS V8 Automatic". There is a dot for this vehicle and no dot for the "LS V6 Manual" or "LS V6 Automatic".
I oughtta know, I factory ordered my V6 manual with the convenience package and it does not have the msg ctr. A serious omission IMHO.
Jim Rogers has been bumped up to Premier Auto Group HMF or some such. He's being replaced by a woman who's not had any previous experience with Lincoln/Mercury AFAIK.
My V6M with convenience package does not have a message center. Are we uncovering a conspiracy here? BTW ... missed the news about Jim Rogers. Where is he going?
The message center on the lower right side of the instrument panel was, and is, standard on the V8LS and unavailable, at any cost, with a V6LS.
Basically the message center and the two additional cylinders cost $2,628 more at invoice, $2,925 more at MSRP, in 2000. This is after adding in the cost of the convenience group to the V6, which is standard on the V8.
On repairman messing up your wood trim you just installed, why not use armarol to remove it? I read directions and it states do not use armarol as it will cause glue to come off and trim to become loose. If you do, it states, just glue it back.
The lack of the message center on the V6 LS is a serious omission. I've ridden in <$25K cars that have MPG and miles to empty indicators. As far as I can tell from the 2002 ordering info. the message center is still not available with the V6. Another item that Lincoln needs to get with the program and see what much lower cost cars are offering.
I am sorry guys, I really did believe the Message Center was available with the convenience package.. I was originally going to get a V6 Manual and thought the Convenience Package would give me the Message Center. Boy would I have been pissed. I am going to see where I got this crazy notion. Anyways it is great on my V8 though... Sorry the V6'ers don't have it.. You should, especially at 30K+ prices...
Comments
Your comment about the number of diesel powered cars got me to wonder about fuel costs. While diesel might be cheaper in Europe, here in Phoenix, diesel costs the same as premium. From where I sit, I can see no advantage or incentive to purchase a diesel powered vehicle (unless I were to need a tow vehicle for a fifth wheel or travel trailer). What are the Germans and Swiss paying for fuel, and how many fuel types can they choose from?
2. The MT published test of LS6 Sport manual used 3:31:1 final drive. C&D's tests of LS6 Sport manual and base auto used 3:07:1 and 3:58:1 final drive ratios, respectively.
3. Don't think Jag S-type uses manual tranny anywhere. Does anyone know for sure?
Welcome back to the discussion, I've enjoyed your perspective and input in the past and I'm looking forward to your continued input.
While I completely agree that the polar moment of inertia would be a very telling piece of information with regard to the discussion comparing the handling characteristics of the LS6 and LS8, I can't say that I've ever heard of anyone actually citing it before. Further, other than someone with an engineering background (I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering), I'm not sure if anyone would know what the *ell a polar moment of inertia is or what it means! At first glance, one would assume that since the LS8 weighs more, and, as can be noted by the increased front-end bias in weight distribution of the LS8, that the LS6 would have a more favorable polar moment of inertia. But, as you say, depending upon where the additional weight is added relative to the center of gravity, it does not necessarily favor the LS6 and MAY, in fact, favor the LS8!
Overall, I'd say far too much time and effort has been expended on trying to debate handling advantages/disadvantages that the various LS models embody. As consumers, we can only go on data/information provided by through "normal" channels (magazines, sales brochurs, etc.). With the LS, we also can count on Ford/Lincoln folks that participate on this board! A professional driver may add some useful insight to this discussion, but I doubt that "mere mortals" could really distinguish a meaningful handling difference between the LS6 and LS8 sport models.
Concur with lolaj42. LS6 and LS8 Sport models will handle more comparably than non-Sport and vice versa. The .77g C&D test result on their LS6 auto base is indicative of the differences.
Here's a site with some info. There'e a comaprison between current US and Europen standards . Among others, there's a history of Europe's passenger car and light duty vehicle emissions laws since 1970 http://www.mira.co.uk/vept/Powertrain/emissions/E_Regulatory_Emissions_tests.htm
Was just up in Maine and put 1400+ miles on my LS8. Paying as low as $1.429 for 93 octane made putting on the miles a lot easier. I saw 87 octane for as low as $1.249. Us suckers who live in the high income states are sure getting ripped off. Here in CT 93 octane dropped from $1.889 all the way down to $1.799 while I was away.
I agree that there's absolutely no point in trying to get a diesel for use in the U. S., even if you could (guess it's still a Mercedes option), since the fuel costs are nearly identical. What I noticed yesterday was that there were four fuels available at the autobahn service plazas, two grades of gasoline, diesel and benzine. I haven't had a chance to ask what that "benzin" or whatever is all about. Knowling this group, one or more of you already knows. Could be that fuel is cheaper away from the autobahns; I have to go out in the sticks a bit to get to work today, so I'll check it out. It's about a two-hour drive north of Frankfurt to where I'll be the rest of the week. Finally, the actual price was ~2 DM/litre (~$1) in Germany for the gasoline & about 20% less for diesel. Similar percentage difference in Switzerland, but I don't know the exchange rate for the Swiss Franc (or whatever the currency is -- the Euro appears to only be used in the big international hotels, and then along with the local currency), so don't know how it compares to Germany.
On the pollution thing, at least from a smell standpoint, unless I was fueling the vehicle, I can't tell it's a diesel -- noisier though. Some of the older diesels appeared to smoke a bit under low-speed acceleration, but didn't see any of that from the new cars. As was pointed out, catalytic converters are probably the answer.
One comment on polar moment. A few hundred pounds difference in the front of the car is likely to be undetectable to anyone who doesn't race cars for a living (IMHO), but the difference between a mid-engine car and either a front or rear engine car could make a difference. Point being, for sedans, weight on the wheels is going to the stay the key point. How long do you think we'll have to wait for a mid-engine LS? Probably in almost the same league as a V8 stick, sadly, even though one's fanciful/ridiculous and the other's completely within (theoretical) reason.
Thanks again, guys.
1. I'm pretty sure that the length of the transmission and driveshaft is the same for the V6 and V8, (FWIW my shop manual doesn't mention any difference)
2. since the above lengths are the same, (and to enable the use of the same console, shifter, etc.) the only way to get a V8 engine is to add the length of those two extra cylinders (over a V6) to the front of where the V6 block ends.
Given the above, it is obvious that the extra weight of the V8 over the V6 must be farther out from the vehicle CG.
I do agree that the difference is small, and probably not noticeable in the average daily grind. However, when I drove the V6 manual vs the V8 auto at the Lincoln "ride and drive" I attended, the V6 definitely felt a bit more nimble than the V8 on the slalom course. (all the V8's were the sport model)
I really don't lust after a 3:31 or 3:58 without the overdrive tranny to go with it. Otherwise, it's simply self-abuse to suffer 3400 rpm at
75mph. 93 octane is down to $1.95 and I have yet to break 20 mpg. I don't need to make it worse!
2001 VW - Beetle, Jetta, Golf gas = 25 city 31 hwy
2001 VW - Same three cars w/diesel 42 city 49 hwy
In reply to giowa, I would qualify my thoughts regarding the V-6 vs. V-8 handling for a couple of reasons.
First of all, as I said in my previous post, the V-6's that I drove were loaner cars. Therefore I can't vouch for how the tires were inflated, if the front end alignment was "right-on", if the gas tank was full, and all of the other variables that influence a car's ultimate behavior.
Secondly, as we all know, loaner/rental cars tend to get more abuse that "owned" cars. The first loaner that I drove (the one my friend had) still drove fairly well, therefore the LS went on my list as a car to consider. It's seat-of-the-pants acceleration and handling were both impressive to me, knowing that it was a V-6 powered car.
The second LS that I drove was the one that I test drove prior to purchasing it. This was a V-8, and I was more impressed, but I'm sure that it's cleanliness and new car tightness were responsible for this perception or "feel". Secondly, my wife and I took this car for an extended drive before deciding to buy it, so we were able to get a good idea on how the car behaved.
I've had the loaners myself a couple of times since, but it's just for a quick jog back and forth between work and the dealer, not long enough to make a really meaningful comparison.
Nonetheless, IMHO, I'm willing to sacrifice the slight handling balance that the V-6 probably has in order to gain the acceleration advantage that the V-8 has. An 18 wheeler tried to squeeze me behind himself and some slow moving traffic on I-95 south, a couple of weeks ago, down in North Carolina. He must have thought that he was dealing with a "blue hair"...... 70 MPH to 100 MPH happened pretty quickly. Sure surprised that Kenworth !!!
In closing, I don't want to start any wars, but years ago, when I was running an oval track car, we did make weight adjustments as small as 20-30 pounds. Yes, I understand that's a race car, but nonetheless, if you're attuned to it, it's noticeable, everything else being constant.
Happy Motoring !!!
I noticed on the "recommended tire size / pressure" label (located on the rear passenger door stop) that P245/45/17 was listed as an option. Anybody had experience with this size compared to the P235's (in terms of handling, comfort, road noise, etc.)? Thanks.
Here's the complete list of AutoWeek's 10 Best American cars for 2001, followed by their ranking a year earlier, in 2000:
Vehicle Rank in 2000
1. Chevrolet Corvette 1
2. Ford F-150 3
3. Dodge Viper 6
4. Ford Mustang 7
5. Ford Focus 10
6. Lincoln LS 5
7. Cadillac Seville 4
8. Ford Taurus 9
9. Chrysler PT Cruiser 8
10. Chrysler 300M 2
What would have made it easier for you to find it?
$82 is NOT half price. I don't remember tirerack's old price but it was just above $100 and nowhere near $164. But $82 is a great price if you want the Firehawks. I'm going with the new Michelins that they're putting on the T-Bird when it's time to replace mine. After putting Michelins on a couple of SUVs and a pickup I'm a customer for life. I don't mind paying a little extra.
I believe that part of this enthusiasm has been caused by all of us LS owners recognizing early on that Lincoln had a viable alternative to BMW that could stand on its own.
We felt good knowing that you drove an LS with custom springs and modified exhaust. That told us that you clearly understood the potential of the LS.
Please do us a favor and transfer your LS to Anne so that the message that Lincoln can really eat in to BMW market share continues. Once she drives your car, she will know why we all bought an LS.
Good luck in your new postion. Clearly you should now we able to get us more HP and Torgue!!!!
Although my former Lincoln dealer said there was no tread wear warrantee, the tires are waranteed for 60,000 miles. I replaced them with Bridgestone Teranza Revos and got $100 per tire credit toward the Bridgestones. The Teranza Revos are a big step up from the Firestones.
Be sure to get the V speed rating for your tires, the Firestone service center did need to order them for me.
On the Firehawks: I like them, and the only reason I don't buy a set at $82 per and stash them away is that I already did it when they were on sale for $106. FWIW I think you're close on the half-price deal, if you compare them to what they cost last year.
1) Seek button on the radio broke the other day - it still works, but you don't get the noticeable rocking motion, so I fear it's only a matter of time before it completely breaks. I'm hesitant to have it fixed as I've installed the Exoticwood piece on the radio, and I'm afraid it will get ruined by a technician attempting to replace the rocker switch.
2) "Check Advancetrak" warning regularly displayed on the message center. When displayed, the Advancetrak button next to the cupholders doesn't work.
3) A/C unit not working properly - when you press the re-circulate button, you don't get that extra blast of air. I don't think that's normal.
Maybe I'm being too picky, but I never had these types of problems in my previous Accord or Maxima. Any comments or thoughts?
2)This is one reason I held out on the AdvanceTrak option when I purchased my LS. Whenever possible, I tend to stay away from 1st year technology implementation...sort of like my tendency to stay away from Beta versions of software. I've seen a few posts on this board regarding AdvanceTrak error messages/failures, but don't think I've seen a single post about Traction control errors/failures. Hopefully your problem is minor, and will easily be fixed under warranty. Stability control is a great safety feature, though.
3)Ive been in some cars where pressing the recirculate button does noticeably amd audibly increase the airflow, and others where it doesnt. Might not be a problem...I would test it out on another LS on the lot next time you are at the dealer.
Lincoln's response is they will replace the cabin air filter at 15K intervals for free. So what is the purpose of the message center in this vehicle? I guess it's there to annoy you and remind you to buy a BMW next time.
I think the LS is a decent car. I am not sure that Lincoln is a decent company, forcing customers to pay $1200 for complimentary maintenance and then annoying them with $47 nickel and dime crap.
All LS' don't have the message center. (V6 w/o convenience pkg e.g.) All LS' aren't covered by complimentary service (my 2000 isn't). The complimentary service doesn't apply after the warranty period.
Sounds like the only problem was that the dealer didn't tell you there was a charge. I don't see where Lincoln is at fault if their complimentary maintenance documents say it's changed at 15K.
"Electronic Message Center (standard on V8 model)"
"Convenience Package, Standard with V8, optional with V6 [MY '00 says "optional with V6 manual and automatic"]: Electrochromatic interior rearview Mirror [MY '01 adds "with compass], HomeLink programmable garage door opener, Moisture-sensitive windshield wipers, Memory driver's seat, steering wheel and exterior mirrors [MY '00 says "8-way power driver seat with 2-driver memory recall], Power driver and front passenger lumbar adjustment".
Text of brochure says "Standard on V8 models, the Electronic Message Center allows the driver a quick, convenient way to obtain information on vital engine systems, maintenance requirements and fuel availability [MY '01 adds: "--helping to create the best driving experience possible."
The initial detailed MY 2000 sales brochure (silver and black cover with pull-out technical spec section) clearly shows "Message Center--Electronic" is available only with "LS V8 Automatic". There is a dot for this vehicle and no dot for the "LS V6 Manual" or "LS V6 Automatic".
I oughtta know, I factory ordered my V6 manual with the convenience package and it does not have the msg ctr. A serious omission IMHO.
Jim Rogers has been bumped up to Premier Auto Group HMF or some such. He's being replaced by a woman who's not had any previous experience with Lincoln/Mercury AFAIK.
Basically the message center and the two additional cylinders cost $2,628 more at invoice, $2,925 more at MSRP, in 2000. This is after adding in the cost of the convenience group to the V6, which is standard on the V8.
Topic: July 24th: "What is the stupidest thing you've seen someone do while driving?"
My apologies once again.
Airwolf1000