I've been around here since almost the beginning and through all of the issues and problems that have been discussed, I don't ever remember someone complaining about transmission failure. I'd say maybe that GM 400 tranny may have competition for the "most bullet proof" title.
But then we should try the tree test first. :-) Joe LLSOC Charter Member
I am thinking about buying an LS. I keep cars for a long time, so I do a lot of research before I buy. I have a few questions so I am still on the edge, and haven't made a final decision.
If cost were no object, I would get an M5. I like the 540 as a second choice. A co-worker has a 540, and he let me drive his on the same day that I drove an LS. Are there any LS/BMW comparisons anywhere? All else equal, I would prefer to buy an american product.
I drove the LS first, a used 2001 V8, 15K miles, and really liked it. It was smooth, comfortable, and had OK power. It was the right color and everything, except that I wanted a sport model.
Then I drove the 540. It was smoother, the interior was better, and had a lot more torque. I grinned every time I had to accelerate, even if it was just a little. All that torque reminded me of the old big block days. I couldn't thrash it because my buddy was sitting right there. But it cost a LOT more than the LS. So I can tell that the LS has a lot of value, just to hang in there with the 540.
But then I looked at a new 2002 LS at a different dealer. It had a mis-aligned hood! I wasn't nit-picking the car, but it stuck out like a sore thumb. There was a big gap on the driver's side of almost 1/2 inch, and I could see the inner fender. The passenger side was jammed against the fender, and I couldn't see any thing inside. Is this an anololy? Are there any other fit and finish issues that have been reported with the LS?
Previous post - sorry, I misspelled anomoly. (On the net, you have to correct typos before you get flamed).
Anyways, is the mis-aligned hood an anomoly? Has anyone here experienced fit and finish problems? I would expect a few problems in the first model year, but they should be corrected by now.
I have 2002 LS. I had a small alignment problem with the left front fender. It was fixed on the first service visit and is now fine. I found the build quality to be very good.
My recommendation is to wait for the 2003 LS. There are several improvements in the works for the 03 model that I am sure you will find are worth waiting for. This should help bridge the gap to the 540s in content at a much lower price. I could not wait since I needed my Ls right away.
One other thing you get with the LS is a big commitment from the people at Lincoln that are behind the product. For example, look at the recent posts from Mark Kovalsky (user mkovalsky) regarding the transmission. Mark is always available on this forum to help with technical transmission issues. If you ever attend a Mania event at Lincoln, you will be able to experience this commitment first hand. I actually went before I took delivery of my LS and it was the experience of a lifetime.
As you noticed, the LS does compete very well with the 5-series but does fall short of the 540. When you factor in the price difference, it does especially well.
The 2000-2002 models were a great first attempt by Lincoln. A 2002 model is a great deal right now, but if you are looking for a 540-type vehicle, you probably should wait to see what changes the 2003 LS will have.
Well the infamous stall occured to me at Lunch. I was going home for a bite to eat. Here are the specifics. Temperature 67 degrees(According to LS Thermometer I would say actually about 5 degrees colder). 2000 LS V8 Sport. Reaching Stop Light do a Rolling stop. Initiate turn to the Right and BAM! Dead in its tracks. TWO Lane Street one coming one going on street turning onto. Lexus RX300 Takes off after I start to turn. I wasn't going terribly fast 5-10 mph through the Turn. Minimal Incursion onto oncoming Lane. I sure am glad RX300 went though. I am also glad I was going slower and this is a residential area (Not alot of traffic). Any Faster and I would have gone into him. Here is the sequence kind of a downhill, applying brakes, hit gas as I initiate turn (Car is dead).
Hydraulics all die instantly so Power Assist and Brakes dead and you can't turn. I was able to crank the wheel and apply brakes (Albeit a little hard without any assist). Hate for a Lady to try to crank it.
I believe this is a serious safety issue. I don't believe anybody has been injured yet but it is a possibility. This happened once to me before about 1 year ago. Also on a RIGHT sweeping (YIELD to Traffic) turn.
Bruno and I also experienced this in his car at MANIA 3 Autocross when we stopped to collect the Time Sticky-Note. A few others also experienced this at the event. Other LS owners have mentioned this happening to them on their daily drives in this forum.
The 1-3 shift only happens at very light throttle, less than 10%. Above that it will shift 1-2, 2-3, etc.
Disconnecting the battery will reset all the "learned" parameters back to their base values for both the engine and transmission. You don't need to do this. The "learning" happens continuosly over the life of the car.
I decided on a 2001 LS last year after a careful comparison to the 530/540. My boss drives a 540, which I drive occasionally on trips, and ride in the car alot. Great car, but the LS is close - more power than than the 530. Could not justify the additional $$ for the 540 - the LS (V8 Sport) keeps me happy.
The fit is not perfect - chrome strips at the base of the window are not aligned. I would suggest carefully examining the car before you take it off the lot.
In any case, I have no buyers remorse. I no longer dream about a 540.
Two things you have to keep in mind on the torque that the 540 puts out. Variable valve timing and a 4.4 liter on the 540 (290 hp/324 ft/lb) vs. a 3.9 liter engine on the LS (252 hp/261 ft/lb).
With the extra $10K you save on the LS, you could probably find someone to stuff a Cobra drivetrain (320 hp/317 ft/lb or 390 hp on the 2003) into the LS and get the same (or better) performance as the 540.
The true gain in putting in that drivetrain, though, would be the envy that you would get from everyone on this board.
Mike, I'm getting an error message also, but the posts are getting through. I did mention the error problem on a post. I'm confident the Big Kahuna didn't have anything to do this weekend, anyway.
George, there's no reason to accept that kind of build quality in ANY car, let alone one that costs around $40k. I do believe it is an anomaly. My '00 is darn near perfect, as are most of the others I've seen. Don't buy that particular car, but please don't consider it a typical example.
Another consideration of LS vs. 540 is long term maintenance costs. We've all heard about the $700 BMW brake job, haven't we? Actually, I met a guy who paid over $800 for brakes on a 740. And if you read the B boards, they have their quality issues as well, same as any mass-produced machine.
Not to bash BMW. Honest; they wrote the book and keep upping the ante. Just not enough bang for the buck.
You don't know the speed of dark, well here's the equation for you, one caveat for the equation:
Amorous adventure + Pile of Stuff (Books, Clothes or paper work) X the descent to the floor / where the heck is the light switch X where the heck is the bed = the speed of dark, +/- a few bruises.
The BMW is a great car, I was almost ready to get the 528i before purchasing the LS. The problem is the BMW owners never tell you the truth about cost of ownership. If you do decide to go for the BMW check out the www.unofficialbmw.com for unbiased down to earth info on the ultimate machines. I can't say much about the LS long term repair costs, but I would be willing to bet that they will be lower. So far my 2KLS has been almost perfect. If you do decide to buy LS wait for the 2003 model. Rumor has it that the LS-V8 will have a minimum of 275hp!
has a picture of a current black non-sport LS with an aluminum box on the hood. Inside the box, according to Pop Mech, is a supercharger. The title of the article is '03 Lincoln LS. It also has larger exhaust pipes.
I just saw pictures of the new E-class - it's gorgeous. Granted, it's $50k+ and not super sporty but did I mention it's gorgeous? New 7-series isn't getting great reviews - wonder if they'll screw up the new 5-series, too? If Lincoln upgrades the interior to go with the extra power then even Edmunds may have to admit it's a winner! (or not).
Between packv12,gschwartz, swauger, and akirby's jokes, I think I've gone and hurt myself falling on the floor laughing. Not to mention that I think I pulled something
This is a new topic but I am curious. The third brake light on my '00 LS is melting...again! the lens was replace about 6 months ago under warranty and the new one is now disfigured. Is this happening to anyone else? All I can figure is the light bulb is too hot. But it shouldn't be right? Its the one that came with the car!
I hadn't been lot-cruising for a while, so I decided to stop by the local mega-dealer this afternoon & see what was in stock, LS-wise. They had a whole bunch of LSs; I didn't count them, but there must have been at least 25, and that was just on the back lot.
There were 3 in Vivid Red; it's the first time I've seen this color in the flesh, and I think it looks GREAT on the LS. It reminds me very much of the Bright Toreador Red that was available for several years on other Lincolns (my Mark 8 was that color), and it really works well on the LS.
Two of the red cars were Premium models, and one was a Sport; all had parchment interiors & all were V8s. Looks like they're serious about the weight problem, because the Premium cars didn't have chrome wheels--had the regular Sport wheels with a $400 credit.
For some odd reason, this particular dealer's LSs are predominantly ivory, silver, black, or white, with an occasional gold; they never seem to have either of the greens or blues or the dark charcoal or the other red. I hope that Lincoln expands the color palette in years to come; Vivid Red sets off the LS very well, IMHO, without being the least bit gaudy. It's really nice.
I've seen the info sheets for the '03 Navigator, Aviator, and Town Car, and the exterior colors are all carryover colors from prior years with the exception of a new gold that's exclusive to the Aviator. (The silver and dark grey/charcoal were changed for '02, but I can barely tell the difference.)
Does anyone else think that some new color choices would be a good idea? Maybe it's just me...
I've never heard of this happening to anyone else; I was curious, so I went & checked mine. It still looks pristine--no sign of any disfigurement. (I'm in Central Texas, and my car has spent lots of time in parking lots in 100-degree temps.)
You've never had the bulb replaced, have you? I suppose it's possible that the wrong (higher-wattage) bulb was installed at the factory; I'd recommend having it checked when you have the new lens installed.
I wonder if there are any cooling vents in the housing. If so, is it possible that they're blocked? This is an odd occurrence...
I agree w/JLinc. I'd really like to see some non-metallic colors besides black and white. Not that I dislike metallic, but that's all you see on the road these days. A dark blue, green, burgundy, maybe a gray that isn't silver.
I also agree about the Vivid Red. I've never been a fan of red cars, but that shade does look great on the LS.
We have had our LS since December, 1999 here in Arizona. If ever a brake light were going to melt, it would be here! We have no such problem. I wonder if the socket in your brake light assembly is mis-located so the bulb is touching the plastic lens?
I agree that color choices are limited, but this is not unique to Lincoln as I see this constant complaint on the Nissan/Infiniti boards. For the record I place my vote for a Rich Plum, similar to Lexus' Black Cherry but with a hint of blue mixed in. I have my deposit ready!
Over the past several months, I have noticed an annoying rattle coming from the B pillar, right beside my left ear somewhere. Only occurs over rough road surfaces, and its not incredibly loud, but quite annoying. Ive checked everything over there I can seem to check. Sounds like it could be coming from inside the driver side fron door jamb, maybe the latch mechanism. Then again, it sounds like it could be coming from the area where the driver side shoulder belt retracts to. Im taking the car in for a final in-warranty visit this week, as I have 49,500 miles on the car. Anyone have this rattle issue, and if so, any resolution?
johnnylinc & tlahaye - poster kinny had his transmission self-destruct while on vacation in Florida, IIRC around late 1999. Might still be in the archives. His was the manual Getrag, made in Germany, not Mark's masterpiece. That's the one and only major tranny problem I've seen here. Ford, BTW, did take good care of kinny much to his satisfaction. Since GM is reputed by many to have made the best transmissions in the world (ask Rolls-Royce), the durability of the transmission in the LS was, as an unknown, somewhat in question for me before purchase. Not any more. woodstock3 - I too keep cars for along time. Body panel alignment is something to which I pay attention on cars. It's an area which has come a long way since the '70's when 3/8" and 1/2" gaps were common on a brand-new car. When I inspected my LS at delivery there was only one body alignment "flaw" on the vehicle - the driver's door panel had been "dog eared" outward at the lower trailing corner in an attempt to align it with the leading edge of the rear door. This "correction" had presumably been done at the factory and not at PDI as my dealer subs out all body work. I live with it because I'm concerned that the dealer's "correcting the correction" (which they said they would do for me, no complaint there) may be opening another can of worms (loss of some corrosion resistance etc) and I'm probably the only one in the world who notices it (except for maybe you and a few others on this board who will never lay eyes on my car anyway). Long story short - I often look closely at LS's and have not seen one yet with body fit as poor as you mention. That one's got to be an a-n-o-m-a-l-y.; ) On the other hand, just over a year ago I saw a new BMW 7 series on display at a local mall and was able to fit my pinky finger between the gap between the trunk and rear fender, which I later measured with a dial caliper as .312 or 5/16 of an inch! - on a car costing over $CDN 100,000! Probably an anomaly too - it happens. Body panels move in time as well, on any car. I once had a Trans-Am which needed the hood screws adjusted about once a year. I've had to adjust my LS trunk once so far in 2 years, because the bottom edge of the trunk on one side eventually touches the top fascia of the bumper when it closes. Wasn't like that when I bought it. If I find I have to do it again, a drop of Locktite on the screws will probably give me a more permanent fix. One thing I found when I was researching, and to affirm your own observations; the LS is the most car per dollar in this category of car anywhere on this planet! Have fun. -Brian
The 2003 will be out by fall, I trust. Yet, no one has provided any spy photo links. I spoke to reps at the Dallas Auto Show, (where I saw the Continental Concept vehicle,) and one rep had seen the 2003. He regretted he would have to shoot me after telling me about it. I chose to wait.
I would also like to see a dark blue with some violet added to it. Similar to the Orient Blue which BMW offers. I too would love to see some sort of black cherry. It looked awesome on a Mark VII I had in 1989.
I look forward to seeing the vivid red. I had a 1998 Town Car touring sedan in the torredor red. It was an eye catcher. It was out of the ordinary.
One of the engineering managers at Mania 3 was Todd, who was in charge of the LS PVT (Production Vehicle Team). His job is to ensure the quality of the production vehicles and to determine the cause of any production issues. He is new in his position replacing the last manager after two and a half years.
It was great fun at the reception in the lobby of PAG HQ to listen to him go through all the fitment issues on a $175,000 Aston-Martin. To the naked eye nothing looked out of place. But to his trained eye, the hood was out of alignment, the rear valence had too wide a gap, etc.
He also hammered on the V-6 manual LS that was on display in the lobby as well, saying that he couldn't believe that they had it on display. To me it looked fine. To him, there were fitment issues that were glaring.
With Todd and others like him at Wixom, I would be willing to make odds that fitment issues will be even less than what they are today.
How about using some of the T-Bird color choices on the LS? I can't wait to see that vivid red! Will this be a standard color on 2003 or 2004 LS model cars? Does anyone know? Also less metallic colors would be nice.
He is the example of what PAG (Lincoln) expects out ot their vehicles. He's a task master from Wixom, and like Brian mentioned, totally devoted to his job.
I was lucky enough to be by the LS when he ran through his usual list, amazing! After they were mentioned, you could see them, but other wise!?
This is the future of the future of Wixom Assembly, he's in charge here. He has an eye towards the product and the outcome, screw the owner. I want to buy an LS while he's on watch. I like him and his really strange ways, they make sense to me!
My guess is that the ugly 7 will be a collector car twenty years from now and folks will be paying "mucho mulla" to get one. Latest news has it that the trunk will be changed for 2003. Who know what will happen to the i-drive control and the 700 functions that it controls.
I had to have my brake light lens and outer cover replaced once really early on because the brake switch had gotten stuck in the on position. It was stuck that way for about 2 days (happened on a Saturday at 1 in the afternoon) but never killed the battery, only the lens and cover. At the time, I did question whether or not it would evetually deform again, but haven't seen a problem since. I would guess that it will. Curious, do you brake with your left foot? Have you had to replace your brake pads and if so, at what mileage?
No question that the picture is the '03. Notice the chrome on the bottom of the grille. This was one of the many things my wife liked on the '03 when we saw it at Mania.
ronniepooh: Every so often I used to hear (it seems to have gone away now) a little rattle by my left ear too. If I pulled my shoulder belt tight so it locked, the rattle would stop, indicating to me a problem with the retractor. Have you tried that?
woodstock: I've bought a couple of new cars off the lot and I would always look carefully for the type of flaws (and others) you describe before deciding on a particular vehicle. So when I ordered my LS from the factory so I could get an actual 5-speed I was concerned that the fit/finish be right. It was pretty close to perfect. There were a couple of minor misalignments - the chrome at side window and where bumper meets fender, but dealer happily adjusted them and everything's fine.
What is the brake wear on the LS Front and Back.. I am at 33K and anticipating a front brake pad change soon.. Of course I could be wrong. Of course it also depends on driving style. Mine typically tend to last (I don't ride the brakes).
Maybe I will have to get the porterfield Brake Pads ;>
I want to thank everyone for their comments on LS fit and finish. I am assured that for the most part, it shouldn't be an issue. But I'll be careful anyway.
Bruno, yes what I really want is for Lincoln/SVT to stuff a Cobra drivetrain into the LS. Since they use suspension parts from the LS, it seems reasonable that the LS should be able to use motors from the Cobra. I used to do such things myself, but there are a few issues with that nowdays like passing smog inspectors and sorting out different electronics. Maybe Roush or one of the other Ford tuners could offer an LS/Cobra.
But there is no reason that we couldn't get naturally aspirated 300 HP from the LS motor - without the supercharger. The Jaguar S-Type gets 285, and for 2003 will get 300. Road and track reports that the supercharged model will get 400(lookout M5).
Motortrend predicts that the LS will get 275 HP for 2003. A factory supercharged LS would probably be near 400, but will always be second best to Jaguar - maybe 350. Lincoln is in a predicament of trying not to be percieved as a second tier luxury car maker, but yet they immediately concede HP to Jaguar.
Ford racing parts department should make these Jaguar extra hp parts available to LS and Thunderbird owners. Higher comp pistons (10.75 instead of 10.5), cam, intake, throttle body, whatever. The best part is that these parts would be smog legal. Ha, take that Mr. smog inspector.
The 300 HP Jag parts through Ford racing catalog, or the 320 HP Cobra engine, would be my plan to get the same performance as the 540. The extra hp should also be available to current 2000 - 2002 owners.
This came up during the Q&A at Mania3. We were told that there is no deliberate plan to keep the LS playing second fiddle to Jaguar, and that it is just coincidence that it has so far been the case, as far as HP is concerned. In spite of all the similarities and shared hardware, they see the LS and S-type as distinctly different cars, with the Jag leaning toward luxury and the LS more oriented to performance. There was even a (joking?) comment offered by one of the Lincoln people to the effect that they "had to give Jaguar a head start."
Thanks for the tip, but nope, pulling the seatbelt to max tension didnt work. The rattle is definitely somewhere between the rearmost portion of the drivers side front door, and the "frontmost" portion of the drivers side rear door. Could be in either doorjamb, or inside the actual B Pillar itself. Drives me a bit nuts. Makes me lower the stereo to listen to it sometimes. (SIde note: Whats that about? Why do we sometimes do that? We know the rattle is there, we know where, and we lower the stereo to constantly hear it. Kind of like, why do we as humans, do a second deep sniff when we think we smell a fart? If we even THINK we smelled one, you would think we would immediately cover up, but no, we do a confirmation sniff)
Sorry, I digressed. But thanx for the tip, heyjewel.
It's good to hear that there's no corporate mandate about Jaguar and hp.
Woodstock3 - what does the IRS have to do with engines? I don't think the 4.6 would fit in the current engine bay. Maybe the 2003 if it's larger. But with the current engine stroked to 4.2L and the right heads 300 hp is attainable so why bother with the 4.6? Jag uses VVT and more expensive heads to get the extra HP.
You're right, Vic. It's highly dependent on the kind of driving you do. You've got 33K. Some have gotten over 40K. Like Bruno, mine were gone at 24K. We do a lot of stop & go around here. I was quite surprised, as I haven't had to replace pads on any of my cars with 4-wheel discs before the end of the end of the lease. I guess with the amount of dust these things generated (Sport), I really shouldn't have been that surprised. Pull the wheels and do a visual check, as it seems some cars have wear indicators and some don't. We never figured out any pattern to it.
Go for the Porterfields! Noticeably higher stopping power; improved pedal response (more linear); the hotter they get, they better they work; virtually no dust on your wheels; 20 % discount for LLSOC members. It's a no-brainer.
woodstock3-what suspension parts does the Cobra share with the LS?
Time to outdrive my headlights again. Computer went down and got the software screwed up during the infamous @home/excite to cox.net cable modem conversion. So I had the hard drive erased, installed XP instead of 98, chucked the Pentium II 350 for an Athlon 2000, 256mb DDR ram and a new MSI motherboard. Installing all the drivers, E-mail addresses, and web sites is an exhausting exercise. Worse than installing new oil, filter and tranny fluid in the LS. I'd rather do that anyday. Thank God I wrote down some passwords or this could really be an ordeal. Only 57 posts to read on the LS forum to catch up. This is nothing compared to the crazies up on the G35 and CTS boards.
Comments
(with all due credit to Mel Brooks):
Ludicrous speed!!!!!
At least I know I'm not imagining things. I knew reflashing it wouldn't help. After all, this isn't Windows software.
BTW - does disconnecting the battery reset any of the tranny parameters (like optimum shift pressures)?
As always, thanks!
I've been around here since almost the beginning and through all of the issues and problems that have been discussed, I don't ever remember someone complaining about transmission failure. I'd say maybe that GM 400 tranny may have competition for the "most bullet proof" title.
But then we should try the tree test first. :-)
Joe
LLSOC Charter Member
I am thinking about buying an LS. I keep cars for a long time, so I do a lot of research before I buy. I have a few questions so I am still on the edge, and haven't made a final decision.
If cost were no object, I would get an M5. I like the 540 as a second choice. A co-worker has a 540, and he let me drive his on the same day that I drove an LS. Are there any LS/BMW comparisons anywhere? All else equal, I would prefer to buy an american product.
I drove the LS first, a used 2001 V8, 15K miles, and really liked it. It was smooth, comfortable, and had OK power. It was the right color and everything, except that I wanted a sport model.
Then I drove the 540. It was smoother, the interior was better, and had a lot more torque. I grinned every time I had to accelerate, even if it was just a little. All that torque reminded me of the old big block days. I couldn't thrash it because my buddy was sitting right there. But it cost a LOT more than the LS. So I can tell that the LS has a lot of value, just to hang in there with the 540.
But then I looked at a new 2002 LS at a different dealer. It had a mis-aligned hood! I wasn't nit-picking the car, but it stuck out like a sore thumb. There was a big gap on the driver's side of almost 1/2 inch, and I could see the inner fender. The passenger side was jammed against the fender, and I couldn't see any thing inside. Is this an anololy? Are there any other fit and finish issues that have been reported with the LS?
Thanks for any input.
George
Anyways, is the mis-aligned hood an anomoly? Has anyone here experienced fit and finish problems?
I would expect a few problems in the first model year, but they should be corrected by now.
Thanks for any input.
George
My recommendation is to wait for the 2003 LS. There are several improvements in the works for the 03 model that I am sure you will find are worth waiting for. This should help bridge the gap to the 540s in content at a much lower price. I could not wait since I needed my Ls right away.
One other thing you get with the LS is a big commitment from the people at Lincoln that are behind the product. For example, look at the recent posts from Mark Kovalsky (user mkovalsky) regarding the transmission. Mark is always available on this forum to help with technical transmission issues. If you ever attend a Mania event at Lincoln, you will be able to experience this commitment first hand. I actually went before I took delivery of my LS and it was the experience of a lifetime.
The 2000-2002 models were a great first attempt by Lincoln. A 2002 model is a great deal right now, but if you are looking for a 540-type vehicle, you probably should wait to see what changes the 2003 LS will have.
Hydraulics all die instantly so Power Assist and Brakes dead and you can't turn. I was able to crank the wheel and apply brakes (Albeit a little hard without any assist). Hate for a Lady to try to crank it.
I believe this is a serious safety issue. I don't believe anybody has been injured yet but it is a possibility. This happened once to me before about 1 year ago. Also on a RIGHT sweeping (YIELD to Traffic) turn.
Bruno and I also experienced this in his car at MANIA 3 Autocross when we stopped to collect the Time Sticky-Note. A few others also experienced this at the event. Other LS owners have mentioned this happening to them on their daily drives in this forum.
Anybody have the latest scoop on this issue?
Regards,
Victor
Disconnecting the battery will reset all the "learned" parameters back to their base values for both the engine and transmission. You don't need to do this. The "learning" happens continuosly over the life of the car.
And Joe, I hear *EVERYTHING*! ;-)
Mark
The fit is not perfect - chrome strips at the base of the window are not aligned. I would suggest carefully examining the car before you take it off the lot.
In any case, I have no buyers remorse. I no longer dream about a 540.
With the extra $10K you save on the LS, you could probably find someone to stuff a Cobra drivetrain (320 hp/317 ft/lb or 390 hp on the 2003) into the LS and get the same (or better) performance as the 540.
The true gain in putting in that drivetrain, though, would be the envy that you would get from everyone on this board.
Bruno
LLSOC member
George, there's no reason to accept that kind of build quality in ANY car, let alone one that costs around $40k. I do believe it is an anomaly. My '00 is darn near perfect, as are most of the others I've seen. Don't buy that particular car, but please don't consider it a typical example.
Another consideration of LS vs. 540 is long term maintenance costs. We've all heard about the $700 BMW brake job, haven't we? Actually, I met a guy who paid over $800 for brakes on a 740. And if you read the B boards, they have their quality issues as well, same as any mass-produced machine.
Not to bash BMW. Honest; they wrote the book and keep upping the ante. Just not enough bang for the buck.
Scott
LLSOC Member
Amorous adventure + Pile of Stuff (Books, Clothes or paper work) X the descent to the floor / where the heck is the light switch X where the heck is the bed = the speed of dark, +/- a few bruises.
I hope that you might find this illuminating
Why do chicken coups have only two doors instead of 4. Because then they'd be chicken sedans.
To prove to the possum it could be done.
There were 3 in Vivid Red; it's the first time I've seen this color in the flesh, and I think it looks GREAT on the LS. It reminds me very much of the Bright Toreador Red that was available for several years on other Lincolns (my Mark 8 was that color), and it really works well on the LS.
Two of the red cars were Premium models, and one was a Sport; all had parchment interiors & all were V8s. Looks like they're serious about the weight problem, because the Premium cars didn't have chrome wheels--had the regular Sport wheels with a $400 credit.
For some odd reason, this particular dealer's LSs are predominantly ivory, silver, black, or white, with an occasional gold; they never seem to have either of the greens or blues or the dark charcoal or the other red. I hope that Lincoln expands the color palette in years to come; Vivid Red sets off the LS very well, IMHO, without being the least bit gaudy. It's really nice.
I've seen the info sheets for the '03 Navigator, Aviator, and Town Car, and the exterior colors are all carryover colors from prior years with the exception of a new gold that's exclusive to the Aviator. (The silver and dark grey/charcoal were changed for '02, but I can barely tell the difference.)
Does anyone else think that some new color choices would be a good idea? Maybe it's just me...
JLinc, LLSOC charter member
Oops--I meant "palette", not "palate".
You've never had the bulb replaced, have you? I suppose it's possible that the wrong (higher-wattage) bulb was installed at the factory; I'd recommend having it checked when you have the new lens installed.
I wonder if there are any cooling vents in the housing. If so, is it possible that they're blocked? This is an odd occurrence...
I also agree about the Vivid Red. I've never been a fan of red cars, but that shade does look great on the LS.
Scott
LLSOC Member
woodstock3 - I too keep cars for along time. Body panel alignment is something to which I pay attention on cars. It's an area which has come a long way since the '70's when 3/8" and 1/2" gaps were common on a brand-new car. When I inspected my LS at delivery there was only one body alignment "flaw" on the vehicle - the driver's door panel had been "dog eared" outward at the lower trailing corner in an attempt to align it with the leading edge of the rear door. This "correction" had presumably been done at the factory and not at PDI as my dealer subs out all body work. I live with it because I'm concerned that the dealer's "correcting the correction" (which they said they would do for me, no complaint there) may be opening another can of worms (loss of some corrosion resistance etc) and I'm probably the only one in the world who notices it (except for maybe you and a few others on this board who will never lay eyes on my car anyway). Long story short - I often look closely at LS's and have not seen one yet with body fit as poor as you mention. That one's got to be an a-n-o-m-a-l-y.; ) On the other hand, just over a year ago I saw a new BMW 7 series on display at a local mall and was able to fit my pinky finger between the gap between the trunk and rear fender, which I later measured with a dial caliper as .312 or 5/16 of an inch! - on a car costing over $CDN 100,000! Probably an anomaly too - it happens.
Body panels move in time as well, on any car. I once had a Trans-Am which needed the hood screws adjusted about once a year. I've had to adjust my LS trunk once so far in 2 years, because the bottom edge of the trunk on one side eventually touches the top fascia of the bumper when it closes. Wasn't like that when I bought it. If I find I have to do it again, a drop of Locktite on the screws will probably give me a more permanent fix.
One thing I found when I was researching, and to affirm your own observations; the LS is the most car per dollar in this category of car anywhere on this planet!
Have fun. -Brian
I look forward to seeing the vivid red. I had a 1998 Town Car touring sedan in the torredor red. It was an eye catcher. It was out of the ordinary.
It was great fun at the reception in the lobby of PAG HQ to listen to him go through all the fitment issues on a $175,000 Aston-Martin. To the naked eye nothing looked out of place. But to his trained eye, the hood was out of alignment, the rear valence had too wide a gap, etc.
He also hammered on the V-6 manual LS that was on display in the lobby as well, saying that he couldn't believe that they had it on display. To me it looked fine. To him, there were fitment issues that were glaring.
With Todd and others like him at Wixom, I would be willing to make odds that fitment issues will be even less than what they are today.
Brian G.
I was lucky enough to be by the LS when he ran through his usual list, amazing! After they were mentioned, you could see them, but other wise!?
This is the future of the future of Wixom Assembly, he's in charge here. He has an eye towards the product and the outcome, screw the owner. I want to buy an LS while he's on watch. I like him and his really strange ways, they make sense to me!
http://home.attbi.com/~mjm-gru/2003_bmw_5ser.jpg
My guess is that the ugly 7 will be a collector car twenty years from now and folks will be paying "mucho mulla" to get one. Latest news has it that the trunk will be changed for 2003. Who know what will happen to the i-drive control and the 700 functions that it controls.
No question that the picture is the '03. Notice the chrome on the bottom of the grille. This was one of the many things my wife liked on the '03 when we saw it at Mania.
Every so often I used to hear (it seems to have gone away now) a little rattle by my left ear too. If I pulled my shoulder belt tight so it locked, the rattle would stop, indicating to me a problem with the retractor. Have you tried that?
woodstock:
I've bought a couple of new cars off the lot and I would always look carefully for the type of flaws (and others) you describe before deciding on a particular vehicle. So when I ordered my LS from the factory so I could get an actual 5-speed I was concerned that the fit/finish be right. It was pretty close to perfect. There were a couple of minor misalignments - the chrome at side window and where bumper meets fender, but dealer happily adjusted them and everything's fine.
Maybe I will have to get the porterfield Brake Pads ;>
Bruno
I want to thank everyone for their comments on LS fit and finish. I am assured that for the most part, it shouldn't be an issue. But I'll be careful anyway.
Bruno, yes what I really want is for Lincoln/SVT to stuff a Cobra drivetrain into the LS. Since they use suspension parts from the LS, it seems reasonable that the LS should be able to use motors from the Cobra. I used to do such things myself, but there are a few issues with that nowdays like passing smog inspectors and sorting out different electronics. Maybe Roush or one of the other Ford tuners could offer an LS/Cobra.
But there is no reason that we couldn't get naturally aspirated 300 HP from the LS motor - without the supercharger. The Jaguar S-Type gets 285, and for 2003 will get 300. Road and track reports that the supercharged model will get 400(lookout M5).
Motortrend predicts that the LS will get 275 HP for 2003. A factory supercharged LS would probably be near 400, but will always be second best to Jaguar - maybe 350. Lincoln is in a predicament of trying not to be percieved as a second tier luxury car maker, but yet they immediately concede HP to Jaguar.
Ford racing parts department should make these Jaguar extra hp parts available to LS and Thunderbird owners. Higher comp pistons (10.75 instead of 10.5), cam, intake, throttle body, whatever. The best part is that these parts would be smog legal. Ha, take that Mr. smog inspector.
The 300 HP Jag parts through Ford racing catalog, or the 320 HP Cobra engine, would be my plan to get the same performance as the 540. The extra hp should also be available to current 2000 - 2002 owners.
Thanks again for your insights.
George
Scott
LLSOC Member
Sorry, I digressed. But thanx for the tip, heyjewel.
Woodstock3 - what does the IRS have to do with engines? I don't think the 4.6 would fit in the current engine bay. Maybe the 2003 if it's larger. But with the current engine stroked to 4.2L and the right heads 300 hp is attainable so why bother with the 4.6? Jag uses VVT and more expensive heads to get the extra HP.
Go for the Porterfields! Noticeably higher stopping power; improved pedal response (more linear); the hotter they get, they better they work; virtually no dust on your wheels; 20 % discount for LLSOC members. It's a no-brainer.
woodstock3-what suspension parts does the Cobra share with the LS?
Artie
Charter member-LLSOC
Only 57 posts to read on the LS forum to catch up. This is nothing compared to the crazies up on the G35 and CTS boards.
Now all you need is that K&N filter and cat-back exhaust system to go with your chip upgrade and you'll have a screamer!