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Comments
Also feel free to email me any time you like
noahpullen@hotmail.com There will be a reunion of Adams/ Sellers Sailors in charleston this october if you are interested I will email you the info.
Gosh this board just keeps getting better my the post. Thanks edmunds. regards,
Noah
Although I've been pretty vocal with my LS complaints, I'm a perfectionest seeking the ultimate. I have a 2000 LS V8 with 24,000 miles and have had 0 reliability problems. My only real complaints have been regarding my quest to get rid of a vibration in my LS and what I consider poor dealer service during that quest. Then again only 50% of the people who have ridden in or driven my LS could even tell there was a vibration.
By the way my wife loves my LS and keeps whining about me getting something else and turning it over to her. Good luck convincing hubby to get a real car.
dspice: My '00 was delivered with no cigarette lighter in the socket. In 45k miles it's had one window regulator and one light bulb failure. I believe your turn signal issue is as indicative of the future as my lighter was.
gkarg, a reminder, or in case you missed it: If they don't get the transmission sufficiently warmed up before the flushing procedure, they may not get it refilled to capacity. My mechanic seems pretty conscientious but he was new to the Ford machine and process and misread the procedure. If you notice rough or abrupt shifts, or any noise at all, take it back and have them check the ATF level.
Scott
LLSOC Member
as you all may know the breaker bar that comes wiht the car is useless. I am doing the brakes today and need this socket size very badly. TIA
noah
* Laser-straight highway cruising. Fingertip control even during gusting cross winds.
* Conversation in a normal voice among four occupants at 80 MPH.
* The path between an LS owner and its manufacturer is an easy one of low resistance... thanks to the FOMOCO participants on this board, LLSOC, and Brian. The path between even a Lexus owner and Toyota is one of high resistance and distorted signals.
Not really a long trip, only 170 miles each way, and only one tank of gas in total, but the car surprised me when the odometer said 400 miles before the low fuel light came on. That has never happened and I thought it impossible due to the car's gearing which is 3000 rpm at 75 mph.
But this was a good mileage test, even if only from eastern San Diego to a place called Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia,Ca. (very Northern L.A. County).
This was 80% freeway at 80 mph, and then some in-town driving and parking lot idling at the resort itself.
Results were 24.32 mpg. Before you laugh, remember the gearing and the fact that I have never broken 20 mpg since I got the car. I feel that the car may be capable of 26-27 mpg at reasonable speeds on the open road.
Despite the gearing and the Borla, the car is very quiet and comfortable. The seats leave you refreshed.
One thing about the gearing in the Manual. Since you are in the torque peak at freeway speeds, acceleration is instantaneous and you rarely need to downshift to pass or take a grade. In fact, I've never had a Manual car that coasts like this dude. Still, if I see slowing ahead, I just have to take my foot off the gas and the car will slow, which really cuts down on minor brake use.
The car goes in for the 25,000 mile service this next week and I will report my remaining brake life. I'm sure that without Mania duty, my brakes would last 60,000 miles or more on the fronts. Of course, the clutch might be shot instead!
If you haven't been to Magic Mountain, it has some world-class roller coasters. One of my favorites is the Superman ride, where magnetic propulsion takes you and 14 other screaming bodies from 0-100 in less than seven seconds on the horizontal and then shooting you straight up 41 stories. Then it all happens again in reverse.
At the top you are 415 feet above the ground. You experience 6.5 seconds of weighlessness. This has got to be the most fun you can have sitting down except for one of Brian's SCCA Solo 2 runs.
This is not the ride to go on after a full meal. And there seems to be a noteable lack of over age 30 patrons to this park. I only saw one guy older than my 53 years and we congratulated each other for tackling Goliath, one of the largest roller coasters in the world. I can't wait to go next year!
I did successfully do the brake job but Ford has some serious explaining to do. Fist, the breaker bar in the trunk is useless. Second, none of the lugs seemed to fit a 3/4 or 19mm socket. I went to several auto stores and tire shops seeking a tool to buy or at least some explanation other than dynamite to remove the lugs. Taking the tires off of this car is bay far one of the most argeous and frustrating evolutions I have ever undertaken.
Every single lug on my car is now scared for life and will be very lucky if they can be removed in the future.
Did anyone test these lugs to see if they fit with the OEM breaker bar before they decided to equip the car with them? Did ford buy these at one of the strip malls that specializes in irregular pants and shirts. Did Ford know that the tires would have to be removed on a curb somewhere; where there is no access to AAA or auto shops? If I were to get a flat in the middle of no where on Rt 66 how could I be expected to change the bloody tire.
Loving this car sure can be difficult sometimes. I will love till it is time to part ways with it but I can't love another one. I am so fed up with these types of let downs. ERRRRRGGGGGH!
not a good weekend.
Now when I buy tires, I take off all my wheels and deliver them to the tire shop. They look at me like an idiot until I show them the damaged nuts and studs. And before they reply with: But WE use "TORQUE STICKS", I tell them that they used "Torque Sticks" as they rethreaded my lug nuts (about 150+ lbs of torque).
The lesson here is that air wrenches can not only damage lug nuts and bolts but drive you nuts with what you think are balance and brake problems and are really warped rotors from the "Air Wrench Monkey". Face it, these guys are still in the Stone Age when everybody had steel wheels and drum brakes. Speed is everything. Your wheels are YOUR problem. Even the bozos at my LM dealer don't have the right equipment for the LS's extreme offset. The result, as ezairconhall can verify, is that if the dealer balances or rotates your tires, he will scratch the wheel near the hub quite deeply in four places.
So I am VERY reluctant to buy custom wheels. It's like paying to be abused. The only reason I would buy is to reduce unsprung weight and the # of forged wheels (14 lbs) that have the proper LS offset to my knowledge is zero.
While I am on this subject, the new Jaguar S-type R will have 245/40ZR fronts and 275/35ZR-18 rears. Unless the body has been massaged for clearance, those wheels would be the way to go as the offset must be perfect to put those gumballs on a DEW98 chassis. Those upper control arms are real close to the wheels on our cars as it is. Oh, those R wheels are 8x18 in front and 9.5 x 18 rear (C&D April page 45).
In closing, I've given up trying to find a true "tire/wheel technician" at the mass tire retailers. I just trust them with my old wheels and pray they can install my new tires without inflicting wheel damage and many can't even handle that.
So my worst dream is buying a $6000 wheel/tire combo and having it turn to junk by the "Air Wrench Monkeys". And don't believe the "Myth of the Torque Sticks" either.
The tire store I deal with actually uses hand-held torque wrenches to finish up tire mounting. Even at that, I often bring loose wheels with (or without) tires in to have work done. Ya gotta pay attention. . .or you'll pay some other way.
At some point, I'll do a G35 test drive. Don't think it'll result in anything significant anytime soon, but it's interesting to observe some of the reaction on this board. Yes, there is competition. Some people care more about power with handling and a manual than much less power with handling and a manual. Don't get me started on the "luxury" interior of the LS. Three pieces fell off, one cut my wife's finger, and the trunk was a total disaster until the dealer replaced 40% of it. I'm confident the '01 & '02 cars don't suffer from this, but I did.
All that said, I'm still very likely to be driving this car in two years. I may get it repainted, but beyond that, it's pretty decent. Faint praise, perhaps, but you need to know me to know that that's about as good as it gets.
Bring on the RWD car with the G35 power (and possibly handling), the LS handling, Accura fuel mileage and an Audi interior. You think anyone would buy it, besides me?
My lease has 14 months to run. So I am sitting back like a cat watching the birds fly. There may be more than the G35 to come. The G35 seems interesting in that, unlike the 350Z, it will seat 4 adults. And it has LSD and a rumored 280hp. Sort of like a bargain Audi TT with more room. No doubt Nissan has been taking steroids and broke the chains of mediocrity. And back from the almost dead. Even GM is waking up with old Lutzo at the helm. GM may rediscover the rear differential but I know they had them in the warehouse all along. Like Ford, the good parts have already been made and it's just a matter of will. Corvettes could sell for $40k if they made enough for demand. A buddy just got a new ZO6 for less than 50k. Dealer cost is less than that. Thank God GM left the Corvette boys alone. Otherwise, every car they made would be an appliance.
Stanny1 - just watching the birds and waiting.
Also, how are those Yokohama DBs doing? My rear tires are almost bald at 25k. I could re-Stone the rears and get another 5 k out of the fronts (and put them on the rear).
I know I want to pay no more than $150 per tire and I want what is called a "summer" tire for max grip. The Michelin MMX3 get a good rating. A buddy has a set of brand new BFGoodrich's he'll sell me for $200 (245/45/17). But these are the ones with the permanent red stripes in the tread. Should a 53 year old have those kind of tires?
The Yoko's aren't wearing as well as I had hoped. I have severe shoulder feathering (could it be my cornering
Although he had none, I read on the Marauder chatbox this morning that the MM is going to MSRP at almost 35K without CD changer, moon roof, and trunk organizer, the only options. Add in dealer markup, and the MM is going to go somewhere between 38-41K. Too much for me.
Dealer had a 2002 LS"E" on the lot listing for 42.5 that I could buy for 35.8 (combination of Ford discount and dealer rebate). The LSE looked better than the LS SuperSport edition that some dealers have been selling (this dealer had one of them, too).
Sounded interesting, but I still think I'll wait to see what the 2003 LS's and Jag-S's have to offer, now that the Mercury folks have priced the Marauder beyond what I think it's worth.
While at the dealer, I asked the Shop Manager if they had been changing many window regulators on LSs. He kind of shook his head and replied, "every d*** day."
Explaining that mine work great but I was concerned about future problems after warranty, he indicated that "Ford hasn't authorized us to change them until they break - yet." He went on to say, "we will sure try to work with you if you have a problem later on."
While no promises were made, I left the dealership feeling a little better.
I'm glad Nissan gave every marketing guy they had a lobotomy last year. It's time Ford fired their marketing guys and replaced them with engineers who make half their salaries and let the engineers rule. I'll get off my soapbox now and put on the Nomex underwear.
Window Regulators
I took the new regulator TSB # to the service guy and had him pull up the part numbers to see if they differed from the ones on the old TSB & sure enough they are different. I didn't write them down, but I will once I have mine replaced with them. (I'll even try to get photos of them, too.)
Lug Nuts
I would also like to complain about the varying sizes of the lug nuts on my car. A 3/4 socket sometimes fits and sometimes doesn't. Most of the time you can just slide a socket on part way and hope for the best. The wrench in the trunk is the same way - some fit, some don't.
Observation
I noticed, after drying my LS off yesterday, that the exterior rubber moldings on the doors, below the windows, are really starting to look like crap - almost as if they are drying out. my car is not garaged, although I began to keep a car cover on it. I checked to see the rubber molding on my 92 conti & with 160,000 miles - the moldings look and feel like brand new. I'm not sure what to think.
Of course Ford could have increased manufacturing capacity for the 4.6L DOHC long ago, but those marketing guys probably told everyone that no Town Car, Marquis or Crown Vic would pay the extra for the DOHC motor.
I may keep it a while !!!!!
First, let me say that I haven't attended any Mania events, , so my info may not be right (but at least I can spread rumors). While there, the GM told me that he had seen pics (blurry) the owner had taken at the some show of the 2003, that showed a navigtion console. That would be good, I haven't felt the need for one, but many others do and I think if they do offer it it'll help competition with other cars in this market segment that do.
Now the update, I figure we get a lot of people who complain (even me) when something goes wrong (not that I've had much to complain about), so occasionally I like to let y'all know how my LS is doing to keep a spectrum of info.
So, how's my 2000 V8 Sport doing? Outstanding. No problems at present, only 7 service tickets in 15000 miles, 5 of which were oil changes, the other two for problems. Only one problem caused me to have to take it in specifically for service, everything else could wait for the regular oil change/service. My problems? Engine cooling fan hydraulic pump failed one week after delivery, fine since repair. Radio and switch replaced. (those were the two independent service tickets, one because it wasn't at oil change time, the other because they farm radio work out to the authorized electronics place for all the big three here). One headlamp replaced, ball joint torque checked, tranny reflashed. Not too bad for a first year car, although my build date was 6/00.
I think the car is definitely broken in at about 15Kmiles, it's getting hot again in FL here, so it can't be that nice boost you get from cool humid air. Anyway, the car seems significantly faster and smoother, and the transmission has smoothed out so it's outstanding. Still a minor hesitation during that 3-2 downshift, either in auto or autostick mode, but every other shift is silky smooth, and gets more aggressive at full throttle. I've never had a tranny shift this well. The car feels very fast now, tires are still good, lots of wear left, so that can't be the main reason why the traction control light flashes so much off the line or around corners. This thing is starting to run like a scalded cat, and so smooth and effortless. I'd say the 2003 with 275 HP, after breakin, should really do well, and all the car needs is that 3:58 back in to make it a real screamer. These engines and tranny combos seem to take longer to loosen up than most cars, and really improve after the break-in. Half the time I corner with the right foot rather than the steering wheel, my face ear to ear with the fameous "LS Grin."
Some people have wound up with problematic cars unfortunately, there have been some systemic problems (windows, mine are holding), but there are also a lot of nearly perfect cars out there too, more than I think the average drop by reader gets a feel for. I feel bad for the people with bad cars and bad dealers, that'd drive me nuts as well. I'm glad my car is doing well and my dealer is great (mainly, I think, because the entire service and parts dept is filled with good ol'boys who really seem to take pride in their work, it's like a Hee Haw convention there). ;-)
So, just my 1 cents (adjusted for inflation).
JS
LLSOC Charter Member
I havent been able to truly pinpoint the vicinity of the noise, but today, I noticed that when I opened the rear drivers side door, the door makes sort of a creak/clunk when the door is fully opened.
To see if yours does it, try this. Open the rear door all the way, then sort of rock it back and forth about 1-3 inches between fully opened and closing it. Do you hear a clunk or pop? I do, but only from the drivers side rear door. It makes the EXACT same noise that I hear when Im driving over the rough pavement.
Not sure if this sound is coming from the hinges or where.
Any ideas?
Could that be the hydraulic fan you're hearing? It has a bit of a moan to it.
Brian
P.S. Did you get Debbie's email?
swauger re transmission: Since the transmission is a 2 speed mated to a 3 speed, and both must shift during the 2-3 and 3-2 changes, those are never going to be the smoothest. Actually, if you think about what's really happening down there it's pretty doggone smooth.
Scott
LLSOC Member
Artie
I've always credited the noise to the power steering pump, as the moan is proportional to steering movement when cold.
I rarely hear the fan as it seems to come on only during A/C use. I have to remind myself to use the A/C periodically to keep the seals lubricated.
Has anyone gotten the Porterfield pads and do they make less dust?
BTW-just leave your ACC in the "auto" setting & you won't have to worry about running the compressor to lubricate the seals. It will run as needed no matter what the ambient temp. is
Artie
I've seen SS versions at two different dealers in the northern NJ area, and I've seen one on the road.
I think that the one I drove had something on the window stating that it was a special for the NY/NJ area.
Package consisted of a replacement grille (black mesh; the factory grille was in the trunk), different rear facia with indentations allowing the dual exhausts to be extended (large cans, similar to the recent exhaust mods on the imports), lower rocker panel cladding, a plaque on the dash stating "special super sport edition" with a number, body colored rear license plate surround, and a modified front facia keeping the rectangular lamps, but adding a mesh between them.
It was definitely a dealer add-on, as the cost for the package was on a separate piece of paper pasted next to the factory vehicle information.
The factory LSE looks better. Exhausts look less "boy racer" and the blacked out grille and round fog lamps are more attractive than the SS versions.
Town L&M in Englewood NJ has an SS and a factory LSE, both black.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/04/04/toyota-sludge.htm
In a similar vein...
This appeared in the "reader reactions" portion of the 12/01 issue of Automobile magazine's 4-seasons test of a Lexus IS300. Price as delivered:$34,635. "Mechanical problems have included condensation behind the headlight lens (sound familiar?), a squeak from the front anti-roll bar bushing, and a covering on the underside of the car that fell off while driving." The writer calls refers to these as minor problems. Funny, nothing's fallen off the bottom of my LS in 2½ years. Do you think these would be referred to as "minor" had the writer been driving an LS. Nothing about this shouldn't be happening in a car this expensive, etc, etc.
Please feel free to e-mail me at victor.contreras@llsoc.com if you are planning on attending.
Best Regards,
Victor
LLSOC Central Texas Director
If you have a minute?
I realize that the tire discussion has gone by several times now, but I need new tires soon and do not have the 3-4 hours it would take to track down some of those comments. I am currently looking at the Michelin Pilot Sport AS and the Goodrich g-force T/A KDWS in 245/45 R17. Does anyone have any comments on these tires? The price differnce at Tirerack is ~$90 ea. Other than some better snow traction with the Michelins, what do you get for your extra $90. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with a Michelin Cust Svc and came to the conclusion that the people I was able to get on the phone with didn't know the differenc between Vulcanized Rubber and Latex. Lastly for the differnce in price I can buy some pretty good dedicated snows.
With regard to the want for more and more horses: I can understand everyone desires to have a sportier vesion of the car. I too always crave increased performance, but one must remember is that such things are never free...there is ALWAYS some trade-off. Cost, weight, comfort etc. I for one, would not be interested in more power at the expence of the vehicles OUTSTANDING handling charactaristics. Good weight distribution is a major factor in the ride feel we all enjoy. Another trade-off is ride comfort. If you folks don't watch out and Lincoln takes you too seriously, we will have nothing more than a leather-cladd luxury MUSTANG. Think about it. If I wanted a Mustang I would have bought one and bought some after market leather seats to go with it. I don't think that is the point of the LS. It is truely a well balcned, well priced luxuray sprot sedan (and as staded previously, "in a class that mags are having difficulty definig). LAst comment on Horse power....It's tourque that you want, not horses, a big fat flat tourque curve will leave a peaky high HP engine in the dust. Sorry I let the engineer out.
Toyota has a point. Since Toyotas are considered bulletproof and "abusible" by many, oil changes are considered not as important as in a Ferrari.
For every gallon of gas burned, at least a gallon of water is produced as a combution and compression by-product. That's what rusts out exhaust systems unless stainless (alot of people get their stainless or aluminum systems welded at some point and that's where the rust starts!)
Some of this water goes past the rings and ends up in the crankcase. A 20 mile drive will heat the oil past 212 degrees and the water will boil off. The crankcase ventilation system is supposed to pull this out and reburn the moisture and any fuel vapors as well.
Dino oil is more sensitive to both fuel and water contamination. In fact, it's hard to remove the water from crude in the refining process, as it is to remove the parafin (wax) from East Coast crude and asphalts (tar) from West Coast crude. So Dino oil, like brake fluid, has an affinity for water.
If you don't consider using Synthetic oil for it's molecule by molecule construction for the express purpose of lubrication, or it's lack of additives like viscosity improvers that synthetic doesn't need that take up to 35% of the can volume that really don't lubricate anything, and synthetics superior resistance to coking at the top ring land that really kills alot of engines prematurely, buy synthetic for it's superior resistance to becoming miscible with H2O and fuel.
Water and syn oil do not mix well. Dino oil and water like to form sludge and leave residue.
I imagine the underside of alot of Camry cam covers look like cream cheese. If you use syn oil, you can eat off the cam covers after 200k.
Also, your engine will stay cleaner on the outside as well. Dino oil has a much lower vapor and boil point than Dino oil. Those of us that spill a little oil when filling know that Dino oil will vaporize fairly soon as we drive. Syn oil can stink for quite a while.
For those of you with Costcos, Mobil 1 is available for $21.99 a case of 6 (10-30). For those of you that are 5-20 freaks, remember that viscosity for Syn oil is much more uniform with temperature change. Dino oil gets thicker with cold, and the water in it makes it unpourable at below zero temps. Syn oil just yawns. Same at high temps. Syn oil is thin all the time. It doesn't need thickness to protect your engine. It's more "slippery" at all temps. AMSOIL even sells a "0" viscosity oil that you can use at any outside temp.
Stan- you're correct. From what I read, it's a ventilation issue and apparently, they also pushed the envelope on engine operating temps.
Here are my first 2 weeks observation, my LS cost $7000 less than the GS, it has no rattles, no popping noise, no interior blemishes, no exterior blemishes, it does pull to the LEFT, no wheel vibrations, a silky smooth transmission, free maintenance for the first 36 months, and corners like nobodies business.
I have read a lot about the LS transmission on this forum. I can honestly say that my LS transmission is far better than the GS. If you where to floor the GS, the GS would wait about 2 – 3 seconds to drop down the gearing before anything would happen. The LS transmission kicks right down and in. Haven’t floored the LS yet, to new, but just a little pump on the pedal gives me the response that I expect! Also, the GS plows into corners where the LS is almost flat. I think that I will be very satisfied at the end of my lease. If Lincoln decides to add more hp to the LS in the next few years and upgrade the interior, I will be back for another go a round.
A few years ago, when operating temps were raised for emission reasons, the VI improver actually turned the oil to putty. I hope that this is not happening in the Toyota engines but evidently the oil is getting so thick it will not flow.
Subtitled "Special doesn't necessarily mean better", they tore into this car like a hungry shark.
For a mere $32,595, you get one of 8,000 modified M's with a deeper 3.89 drive ratio, 255 hp with 258 lb ft torque, body kit,dual exhaust, 18" wheels with 245/45 Michelin Pilots, faux carbon fiber trim, and Euro-spec brakes.
The result? 0-60 in a mere 8 seconds. .82 on the skidpad !!!
While the 2000-2002 V-6 LS Auto may be a little slower, it will beat this pile on the skidpad. And every existing V-8 and manual LS will outdo this "Special".
I'm sure the 2003 V-6 Auto will beat it as well.
Quote: "Chrysler claims the Special pulled .91 g,
but that number seems suspect to us, considering a Porsche 911 managed only .90 g."
Hey, it's Front Wheel Drive!
SOunds like you're already enjoying your LS. "Corners like nobodies business" should be an LS advert tag line - and a true one to boot. Check out LLSOC.com for more benefits of LS ownership.
Stanny: Finally some auto rag had the sense to describe the 300M for what it is. A reasonably nice-looking (IMHO) front-driver. Nothing more.
I'm coming up on 15000 mile service and am considering going to syn oil. I hate to pay xtra though since my service is free.
Man. Sounds like a GREAT time to grab an LS..