Now I'll have to keep the car. Just ordered a set of Bridgestone S0-3s from Tire Rack, front and rear pads from Porterfield, a set of chrome valve stems from Quickcar.net, and a Piston Rotation Tool from Snap-On (when my local mechanic told me he would charge me $150 for two hours labor for a pad change).
I think I'll skip the 20 way adjustable shocks and new calipers until my wife recovers from this round of indulgence.
They distribute a Volk Racing wheel from RAYS Engineering, a Japanese manufacturer of high tech forged wheels. The 18x8.5 is 16 lbs. It's called a TE37 model. The application chart shows an 18x7.5 with a 48mm offset. That's the closest I've found to the LS's 60mm offset.
Now I'll have to keep the car. Just ordered a set of Bridgestone S0-3s from Tire Rack, front and rear pads from Porterfield, a set of chrome valve stems from Quickcar.net, and a Piston Rotation Tool from Snap-On (when my local mechanic told me he would charge me $150 for two hours labor for a pad change).
I think I'll skip the 20 way adjustable shocks and new calipers until my wife recovers from this round of indulgence.
They distribute a Volk Racing wheel from RAYS Engineering, a Japanese manufacturer of high tech forged wheels. The 18x8.5 is 16 lbs. It's called a TE37 model. The application chart shows an 18x7.5 with a 48mm offset. That's the closest I've found to the LS's 60mm offset.
You don't want to know. These were the prototype setup for the McLaren LS and the club will be working with McLaren to get club pricing for the brakes. The full 4-wheel kit is going to be stratospheric just because they had to fabricate a new parking brake assembly from an earlier model Lincoln. The rear actually looks like it has two sets of calipers, the stopping one and the parking one. If they had to retail the full 4-wheel kit it would cost about $6,000.
The two wheel kit pricing hasn't been determined for this model yet (have to wait to talk to McLaren) but if you go by the other two wheel kits that Stoptech offers you're looking in the $2,500 ballpark range.
Brian did you say it looks like it has two sets of Calipers? I think it is two sets of Calipers. Will the McLaren Kit be exactly like this. I don't know if a dual setup is better. What do you think. From an IT Perspective it seems redundant but then again that ensures availability. If the main brake calipers fail. You got the Backup emergency Brake!
I like the Calipers! They look Mean. I am assuming they won't fit the Stock Super Silvers either?
Question does any one sell drilled rotors for the Stock LS Brake System. Would they help Stop Quicker? What about a Porterfield Pad, Drilled Rotor Combo.
Or better yet a Stock Rear with Porters, Drilled Rotors and Stoptech's Up Front!
That would be a good compromise to the 4 Stoptechs all around!
The McLaren LS brakes will be identical to these with the exception of being painted McLaren Orange with the Speedy Kiwi logo. The McLaren car at the NY Auto Show had the same setup except their parking brake calipers were painted black to blend into the background.
The only wheels that I am aware that fit are either the Classic Design Concept wheels (definitely in the 18 inch size, possibly in the 17 inch size) and the McLaren O-Z wheels. Outside of custom wheels that is.
You can get cross-drilled or slotted rotors from Porterfield Brakes. Cross-drilling or slotting will not do anything to the stopping distance. Cross-drilling's main purpsose is to remove material from the rotor, lightening it. There is some cooling benefit but doubt you would see it on a street car. Slotting allows the brake material that is converted to a gaseous state under hard braking to be removed from the surface of pad and rotor.
Cross-drilling looks cool, but it's gotten a reputation of stress cracking the rotors around the cross-drilled holes. Slotting the rotors does remove some material from the rotor but because it isn't through and through there is less danger of stress cracking the rotor.
So the Slotting would not really be beneficial either huh? I guess its all about pressure being applied on the Rotor, and Rotor Diameter etc. in order to stop quicker huh. I.E.? Bigger or More Pistons on the Caliper and bigger Rotor.. Venting to prevent heat and reduce Fade etc.
By my rough calculations the improvement in stopping distance for the Stoptech system over stock is around $100/ft, give or take a little. The difference between Stoptech and the Porterfields is even more.
I think I'll stick with the $150 Porterfield pads.
Allen, don't you think that part of the allure the Stoptech's have is how they look? I'm not saying that one should casually drop >$2K for a set of new brakes just for cosmetic purposes . . . that would be just plain silly. But, if you were to put on a sexy set of 18-inch wheels, the current brakes become a real detraction from the aesthetics.
The stock calipers, while quite functional and efficient at hauling the LSes speed down, are pretty dreadful looking. Short of buying the Stoptechs, I've seen some very nice photos of other LLSOC member's cars where the stock calipers had been painted. Virtually any color would be an improvement over the stock gray. I'm now starting to think about painting my calipers as well, and have now begun to think about what color to paint them. Anyone out there have any suggestions that would compliment my Silverfrost LS8 sport?
Its a Hard Choice between the Two. They do look Dreadful compared to the Stoptechs. In the End Though The StopTechs and McLarens are painted. How though? Sprayed, Dipped? Buy the Slotted Rotors to complement the Painted Caliper and it will look very Sporty! Add the Porterfields to sort of backup the Look.
I am very curious regarding a comparison between the following for stopping distances?
StopTechs Up Front: 109 Ft. at what temp. StopTechs 4 corners: 109 Ft at what temp. Stock LS: LS with Porterfields R4S 4 corners: LS with Porterfields R4S 4 corners and Slotted Rotors:
Bonus Round: StopTechs Up Front with racing pads: StopTechs 4 corners with racing pads: LS with Porterfields R4 4 corners: LS with Porterfields R4 4 corners and Slotted Rotors:
We might have to have a Mania with each of us running one of the Above setups. Just to ensure we are all running on the Same surface, same temp.
Arghh!!!! But Brian is running those darn blasted adjustable racing shocks and S03's so it wouldn't be a fair comparo.. :)Well Close Enough Then again we the testers could also go out and buy these goodies!
Stoptech has some good documentation on what constitutes good brake practice in their Technical and FAQs sections. It was entertaining reading.
akirby: I agree with you. The Porterfields are a tremendous bang for the buck. If I were completely looking at this just for myself, I wouldn't think too hard about paying that much money either. But since Stoptech made me an offer that was hard to refuse and by doing this helped both Stoptech and McLaren out, not to mention that the boat money was burning a small hole in my pocket, I went for it.
Besides the club's Kahuna should have an over-the-top ride, no?
lolaj42: I agree with you. I've seen the stock calipers painted red, or silver, or black. The black is pretty subdued. The red isn't bad.
I wholeheartedly agree with drolds' post and I believe everyone at Mania3 would, also. Well said, Artie.
My concern about the brake upgrade (aside from cost, of course) is, Do I really want brakes that good on the street? The stock LS stops so well that I've been nearly rear-ended several times. With the StopTech setup you'd just about have to drive as if you were riding a motorcycle.
I was originally thinking of going with a subdued and classy high gloss black paint. However, the more I think about it, black just seems to boring. While these aren't "high performance" brakes, I'll be installing the Porterfield pads any day now (still holding my breath in apprehension since I haven't even seen this job done before let alone done it . . . ) and they'll feel more like "high performance" brakes.
Taking the advise from another LLSOC member, I'll be checking out the color selection of high-temp paints (good for up to 1200 deg. F) at my local autoparts store (they come in typical aerosol spray cans). I'm not sure if any high-gloss colors are available, but I'll look into this as time permits.
I'm too much of a right-brainer to choose between brake caliper colors . . . I've seen red (Brembo comes to mind), now Orange (McLaren). I think I'd have to see how yellow comes off, but what do folks think about a medium to light blue? Didn't Henry Ford use to say he'd paint a car any color so long as it was black? ;-)
While I had my regular 6K interval service (at about 33K miles on my 2000 LS-8 sport) the dealer told me to keep an eye on my tires because they are getting close to the wear marks (thanks to the Mania I autocross no doubt ;-) They told me that the two tires recommended by Ford for the LS Sport are now: Michelin Pilot XGT Z4 ($228.95 from the dealer) Pirelli Pzero System Asimmetrico ($185.95 from the dealer). They also add $18.50 per wheel for mounting and balancing.
Does anyone have comments about these choices and prices?
You may want to take a look at www.ccwheel.com. I've done business with them of and on for several years. They have a nice 3 piece wheel available, the pricing isn't too bad, I'm just not sure if the centers will clear the LS's calipers.
Don't sweat the brake install. I hadn't done it before either and it only took me 15 minutes per wheel. Two bolts to remove the caliper (the pads stay in their own carrier), swap out the clips on the pads, force the piston back in and reattach everything. Piece of cake. Don't forget to remove some fluid before you retract the pistons or it will overflow.
And yes, I do like the looks of the stoptech or other aftermarket caliper/rotors. I just don't think I could spend that much money on them. I would go for the LSE body kit or custom wheels first. But I understand the appeal.
I also understand why Brian did it. The sacrifices this guy makes for the sake of the club........ As Mel Brooks would say: "It's good ta be da king!"
I think when you dealer says "recommended" he means recommended to line his pockets. I doubt very seriously that Lincoln recommends anything except OEM tires. As for the tire choices:
The Michelin Pilot XGT Z4 is good. I think it was Michelin's top performance tire (or close to the top) before the Pilot Sports came out. But you can get the Pilot Sport A/S installed at Costco in 235/50R17 size for $212 each plus tax and $7 installation. They should also be able to get the other Michelin's at similar discounts. Personaly I would either go with the Pilot Sport A/S, the new OEM Pilot MXM4 or one of the Bridgestones (Potenza S-03s or KDWs). I've heard good and bad about the Pirellis. Jag switched from Pirellis to Michelins on the S-type.
rene: I have Michelin Pilot XGT V4 tires, Don't know how different the Z4's are but overall the Pilot XGT V4's are excellent. Here are my comments
Unbelievable dry grip. Really make the LS have an even more running on rails feeling than the Firestones. I have my own personal skid pad, that is a very nice smooth, large traffic circle 2 miles from my house. However blasting around the circle usually causes high decibel shrieks to be emitted from the passenger seat.
Very good to almost excellent wet performance.
Great road feel.
Very quiet for a performance style tire.
Smooth and round feeling but after the car sits for a day or two it does take a good 10 miles or more to get the flat spot thump out of them.
Fair snow traction, acceptable but not as good as new Firehawks.
They do make the ride a harsher, I'd guess that the great on center feel and cornering comes from stiffer sidewalls and that translates into the harsher ride.
I have my LS in the dealership for servicing and asked about their claim to match other prices on tires. I think they did, for all practical purposes. They offered to install four Michelin Sport A/S 235/50/17, balance, four wheel alignment, all the extra crud I usually don't get like new valves, etc. for $1024 all including taxes and all their hidden charges for throwing out their garbage etc. I think that compares favorably with what I would have to pay Tire Rack and the installer and now I have one place to go to if there is a problem with either balance, alignment or any other tire related problems. I only asked to see if they were even close, but I went ahead and did it. The car is there anyway and they got me a loaner under the warranty work, so why not?
I can vouch for the wet weather capabilites of the Pilot Sport A/S. I was in a long left turn lane approaching a large intersection (4+ lanes) right after a major thunderstorm - doing about 40 (it's a long radius turn because of the width of the road. Didn't see the BIG RED LIGHT for some reason and had to nail the porterfields just as I was beginning to turn to avoid the Taurus turning left from the other direction right in front of me. No ABS, skidding or hydroplaning. It just stopped dead within a couple of car lengths. I have yet to get them to hydroplane or break traction. Look at the tread and you'll see why. This also mirrors the test results that I've seen. More than worth the small loss in dry traction for everyday driving. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for.
I haven't got anything yet except a huge town car to drive until they finish with my car. I expect I will get it when they return the car tomorrow. I will look.
We saw some tires on a couple LSs in Irvine. Does anybody know if they're a tire that's currently available? I'll be shopping this fall and a certain engineer mentioned that these tires were better than the Firehawks in all respects, including winter traction.
Well, I had a little bit of time this afternoon to look around for some 1200 deg F paint. Not much selection in my local autoparts store, and nothing with a gloss finish. Flat black, white, orange, and medium blue. The medium blue was the only color I'd even consider at this point. However, I was given a few more leads to follow that may have a better result. Ultimately, I'd like a high gloss finish, so I'll continue hunting . . .
After looking for high temp paint for the calipers, I went ahead and replaced my front pads (original stock pads for the sport model). I only had 22K miles on my '00 MY LS8, and the pads still had loads of life in them, I just got tired of the mess they made. I managed to bugger-up two lug nuts (although I suspect they had been previously damaged over the course of 4 prior tire rotations by my dealer). The two damaged ones were not so bad that I could not put them back on and torque them properly, but they'll be replaced tomorrow anyway.
The job took over two hours just for the front pads, but much of this time was spent cleaning all the accumulated brake dust off the the wheels (inside and out) and me! Removing the caliper and changing the pads is a snap to do yourself (I had never attempted this job before). I've only done one short little trip to make sure the brakes function properly (they do) but couldn't get a real feel for how much better they are at stopping than the stock pads.
I'll be changing the rear pads out by Saturday, so this job isn't entirely done yet. I'll report back as the job gets completed and the pads bed in.
I think you left a word or two out of your post #8828. What tires are you talking about. If you are really just asking in general if they are going to use tires on the new LS, I am pretty sure they are.
I think this has been a good discussion. Whether Lincoln puts Pirellis, Firestones, Michelins, etc., on the car has a lot more to do with relationships than anything else. For instance, let's remember that the Ford and Firestone families are literally IN-LAWS, and their relationship goes back nearly a hundred years, hence the reason our cars were originally equipped with Firestones instead of anything else. The fact that Jag switched from Pirellis to Michelins (at the same time as Lincoln did) again, realistically, probably has much more to do with creating a new business relationship than months of competitive testing since Jag and Lincoln are both Ford companies. Regardless, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to get a "bad" tire in this price range or from any of these companies, and the ratings from both Consumers Reports and Tire Rack bear this out. The differences seem to be slight when comparing tires of this calibre. While it would be wonderful to be able to test a handful of high performance tires to find the ones we each prefer, I don't think that's going to happen. So I'll have the LS shod with Pirelli's on Saturday and zoom off into the Western Sunset across the desert to Las Vegas next weekend... and I'll bet they'll be fantastic!
My Brigestone Potenza SO-3 Pole Positions will be here next Wednesday. Costco installs and balances for $9.00 each. The tires were $178.00 each. If you read all the reviews, the SO-3's are really top rated. Brian had the Pilots and prefers the SO-3. The Pirelli's seem to miss the mark down their whole line. I received my Porterfields today ($178) and am awaiting my Snap-On "Piston Rotation Tool" for the rear R&R. I called for quotes from local shops for just pad R&R. Prices range from $80 to 150. That's a lot for a few minutes work. These guys even have the time-saving tools. The high quote was for two hours labor. No rotor turning included. I will be doing this myself!
I'm tiptoeing around this because I was talking about the tires on the '03. Probably too early to ask the question. We must guard our secrets jealously, after all. The variety of Michelins is a little confusing and I don't know if we were seeing a currently available tire or something new developed especially for that car.
You know Scott, of all the drooling I did and mental notes I was taking, I forgot to look at the tires. I only remember the brand but not the model. I would imagine "a certain engineer" could tell if they are available yet. Or at least the model and you could contact . And you all thought I'd name the brand. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Spy photos not withstanding, per our "gentlemans agreement", I will say nothing until the official release.
I'm off for the weekend, too. A few hundred miles on the road to visit family tomorrow. I drive 90 miles every day and I'm still looking forward to it! Good weekend, everybody.
Wife took 2002 LS Sport in for oil change and tire rotation this past Tuesday. This was the 3rd rotation and I noticed the dealer is only rotating the tires front to back and back to front. I thought nobody did that anymore with radials. Has anyone else had their dealer rotate the tires in this manner.
If I were going to paint the calipers on my silver frost car I would paint them aluminum. Why would I want my car to look like a teenage buzz bomb by painting them yellow, blue or any other color. Aluminum would ad a precision look.
Quality Lincon Mercury in Omaha, is advertising new 2002 LSs, at $9,995 off list price, in this morning's Omaha, NE World Herald Newspaper, if anyone is shopping.
Rotating the tires front to rear on the same side is not the normal rotation method for a space saver spare. This is the rotation method for uni-directional tires.
The recommended 4 tire rotation for regular (non uni-directional) is rear tires to front, both stay on the same side and the front tires cross over to the opposite side on the rears.
Refer to page 216 in your LS owners manual.
Actually it is amazing how much information and different opinions are out there on something as simple as tire rotation.
The Front to Rear tire rotation on the same side method had its origins when radial tires first came out. It was felt that the radial cords took a set and changing their direction of rotation would not only cause the tires to thump for several thousand miles, but the changing of rotation directions could cause the radial tires to fail.
In the late 70's most tire manufactures started recommending cross over rotation for all tires, including radials.
I really do not belive in tire rotation, unless there is an indicated wear problem. I believe that the manufacturer's tire rotation recommendation is more of an excuse to give the dealers something to do, and charge you for if your car doesn't come with "free" maintainance.
Front wheel drive cars will usually wear the fronts much faster than the rears, but so far on my LS I have found that the tire wear has been very even between the fronts and rears.
I have heard that BMW now believes this too and does not recomend tire rotation. They say that changing the rotation direction requires the tires to take several thousand miles to set in again.
MY OEM Firehawks are at 33K miles, and the full-sized spare has never been used in the rotation pattern. Discussed buying 4 new "Hawks" with Tirerack and going to a standard 5 wheel rotation pattern. Not sure I buy this, but they recommended I just buy three new tires. Stated the suspension on the LS was sophisticated enough that running a new tire on one corner (or after the second rotation, two "newer" tires and after the third, one "more used" tire, etc.) would noticeably affect the car's handling characteristics.
Discussed this a while back with Joe166 who has always done 5 wheel rotations. He tells me he never noticed a handling issue.
Just another perspective on this issue I guess. Anyway, I bought three Hawks, will use the brand new spare, and will go to a four wheel rotation if I see uneven wear.
Yep, that's right. I never saw any difference with a "slightly more used tire". Does that mean if you ruined a tire with a side puncture that couldn't be repaired you would have to throw out the other three? I doubt it. Incidentally, after almost 33.000 miles of trouble free "stone" useage, I just got 4 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. It is different. I haven't done anything except drive home and try to remove the gunk that the dealer left on them, but they sure look nice! The handling in the very short time I have had them seems much more taut and precise, but again, that remains to be seen when I do more than commute my daily 6 miles through Coconut Groves shady streets. I will say that if I had never used my spare, I would have been hard pressed to do anything but buy three more stones to use. They were just fine for me until the last couple of months when they seemed to just start losing their grip almost over night.
After perusing the owners manual for my Jaguar X Type, I noticed there was no mention in the comprehensive section on "tyres." I called Jaguar and sure enough they do not recommend any tire rotation. Perhaps because of the AWD?
With the help of a couple of club members (thanks Brian & Mark!) I converted my non-SST car to an SST. I highly recommend this modification. I was a little skeptical of the value of the SST. I am now completely sold!!
For the second week in a row, one local Chicago dealer is advertising $399 per mo. 36 mo. lease on $37,000 + LS with 0/0/0. No mention of first payment paid or number of miles per year allowed.
Tire comment: I recently replaced my original Firehawks at 32K miles with Michelin Pilot AS Sports. The car now rides like a totally different animal. The biggest difference I notice is not that it is tremendously more sticky in the corners, but that it cruises much more smoothly than on the Firestones.
Supercharger Question: Has anyone added an Eaton Supercharger to the V8? I see that Ford is now using these on a few models, and was wondering how smoothly they would adapt to the 3.9 liter engine.
I second the opinion on the Pilot Sport A/S. I don't think they're quite as good on dry grip as the Firehawks but they're quieter, smoother and better in the wet stuff. And they look great, too!
As far as superchargers I think there have been a couple of Lincoln prototypes but nothing official yet. McLaren is selling a version of the LSE with a supercharger (I think it's an Eaton) but it will be a 03 model and details of the 03 V8 aren't released yet, but assuming the 03 V8 is still the AJV8 with at least 275 hp the McLaren version should bump it to 375 hp with the supercharger. But 40 of that extra 100 hp is from a modified intake/exhaust setup. Jaguar has already announced their 2003 S-type R using a 4.2L version of the AJV8 with a supercharger producing 388 hp.
Rumour has Lincoln using a 400 hp normally aspirated 5.0L modular V8 in 2004 with a 6-spd manual.
Comments
I think I'll skip the 20 way adjustable shocks and new calipers until my wife recovers from this round of indulgence.
Still looking for the right wheels, though.
Take a look at http://www.mackinindustries.com
They distribute a Volk Racing wheel from RAYS Engineering, a Japanese manufacturer of high tech forged wheels. The 18x8.5 is 16 lbs. It's called a TE37 model. The application chart shows an 18x7.5 with a 48mm offset. That's the closest I've found to the LS's 60mm offset.
I think I'll skip the 20 way adjustable shocks and new calipers until my wife recovers from this round of indulgence.
Still looking for the right wheels, though.
Take a look at http://www.mackinindustries.com
They distribute a Volk Racing wheel from RAYS Engineering, a Japanese manufacturer of high tech forged wheels. The 18x8.5 is 16 lbs. It's called a TE37 model. The application chart shows an 18x7.5 with a 48mm offset. That's the closest I've found to the LS's 60mm offset.
The two wheel kit pricing hasn't been determined for this model yet (have to wait to talk to McLaren) but if you go by the other two wheel kits that Stoptech offers you're looking in the $2,500 ballpark range.
Brian
I like the Calipers! They look Mean. I am assuming they won't fit the Stock Super Silvers either?
Question does any one sell drilled rotors for the Stock LS Brake System. Would they help Stop Quicker? What about a Porterfield Pad, Drilled Rotor Combo.
Or better yet a Stock Rear with Porters, Drilled Rotors and Stoptech's Up Front!
That would be a good compromise to the 4 Stoptechs all around!
Regards,
Airwolf
The only wheels that I am aware that fit are either the Classic Design Concept wheels (definitely in the 18 inch size, possibly in the 17 inch size) and the McLaren O-Z wheels. Outside of custom wheels that is.
You can get cross-drilled or slotted rotors from Porterfield Brakes. Cross-drilling or slotting will not do anything to the stopping distance. Cross-drilling's main purpsose is to remove material from the rotor, lightening it. There is some cooling benefit but doubt you would see it on a street car. Slotting allows the brake material that is converted to a gaseous state under hard braking to be removed from the surface of pad and rotor.
Cross-drilling looks cool, but it's gotten a reputation of stress cracking the rotors around the cross-drilled holes. Slotting the rotors does remove some material from the rotor but because it isn't through and through there is less danger of stress cracking the rotor.
So the Slotting would not really be beneficial either huh? I guess its all about pressure being applied on the Rotor, and Rotor Diameter etc. in order to stop quicker huh. I.E.? Bigger or More Pistons on the Caliper and bigger Rotor.. Venting to prevent heat and reduce Fade etc.
Airwolf
I think I'll stick with the $150 Porterfield pads.
The stock calipers, while quite functional and efficient at hauling the LSes speed down, are pretty dreadful looking. Short of buying the Stoptechs, I've seen some very nice photos of other LLSOC member's cars where the stock calipers had been painted. Virtually any color would be an improvement over the stock gray. I'm now starting to think about painting my calipers as well, and have now begun to think about what color to paint them. Anyone out there have any suggestions that would compliment my Silverfrost LS8 sport?
Mine Silver LS with 17 Super Silvers.
Its a Hard Choice between the Two. They do look Dreadful compared to the Stoptechs. In the End Though The StopTechs and McLarens are painted. How though? Sprayed, Dipped? Buy the Slotted Rotors to complement the Painted Caliper and it will look very Sporty! Add the Porterfields to sort of backup the Look.
I am very curious regarding a comparison between the following for stopping distances?
StopTechs Up Front: 109 Ft. at what temp.
StopTechs 4 corners: 109 Ft at what temp.
Stock LS:
LS with Porterfields R4S 4 corners:
LS with Porterfields R4S 4 corners and Slotted Rotors:
Bonus Round:
StopTechs Up Front with racing pads:
StopTechs 4 corners with racing pads:
LS with Porterfields R4 4 corners:
LS with Porterfields R4 4 corners and Slotted Rotors:
We might have to have a Mania with each of us running one of the Above setups. Just to ensure we are all running on the Same surface, same temp.
Arghh!!!! But Brian is running those darn blasted adjustable racing shocks and S03's so it wouldn't be a fair comparo.. :)Well Close Enough
Very interested in the results.
Regards,
Airwolf
akirby: I agree with you. The Porterfields are a tremendous bang for the buck. If I were completely looking at this just for myself, I wouldn't think too hard about paying that much money either. But since Stoptech made me an offer that was hard to refuse and by doing this helped both Stoptech and McLaren out, not to mention that the boat money was burning a small hole in my pocket, I went for it.
Besides the club's Kahuna should have an over-the-top ride, no?
lolaj42: I agree with you. I've seen the stock calipers painted red, or silver, or black. The black is pretty subdued. The red isn't bad.
My concern about the brake upgrade (aside from cost, of course) is, Do I really want brakes that good on the street? The stock LS stops so well that I've been nearly rear-ended several times. With the StopTech setup you'd just about have to drive as if you were riding a motorcycle.
Taking the advise from another LLSOC member, I'll be checking out the color selection of high-temp paints (good for up to 1200 deg. F) at my local autoparts store (they come in typical aerosol spray cans). I'm not sure if any high-gloss colors are available, but I'll look into this as time permits.
I'm too much of a right-brainer to choose between brake caliper colors . . . I've seen red (Brembo comes to mind), now Orange (McLaren). I think I'd have to see how yellow comes off, but what do folks think about a medium to light blue? Didn't Henry Ford use to say he'd paint a car any color so long as it was black? ;-)
Michelin Pilot XGT Z4 ($228.95 from the dealer)
Pirelli Pzero System Asimmetrico ($185.95 from the dealer). They also add $18.50 per wheel for mounting and balancing.
Does anyone have comments about these choices and prices?
And yes, I do like the looks of the stoptech or other aftermarket caliper/rotors. I just don't think I could spend that much money on them. I would go for the LSE body kit or custom wheels first. But I understand the appeal.
I also understand why Brian did it. The sacrifices this guy makes for the sake of the club........
As Mel Brooks would say: "It's good ta be da king!"
The Michelin Pilot XGT Z4 is good. I think it was Michelin's top performance tire (or close to the top) before the Pilot Sports came out. But you can get the Pilot Sport A/S installed at Costco in 235/50R17 size for $212 each plus tax and $7 installation. They should also be able to get the other Michelin's at similar discounts. Personaly I would either go with the Pilot Sport A/S, the new OEM Pilot MXM4 or one of the Bridgestones (Potenza S-03s or KDWs). I've heard good and bad about the Pirellis. Jag switched from Pirellis to Michelins on the S-type.
Unbelievable dry grip. Really make the LS have an even more running on rails feeling than the Firestones. I have my own personal skid pad, that is a very nice smooth, large traffic circle 2 miles from my house. However blasting around the circle usually causes high decibel shrieks to be emitted from the passenger seat.
Very good to almost excellent wet performance.
Great road feel.
Very quiet for a performance style tire.
Smooth and round feeling but after the car sits for a day or two it does take a good 10 miles or more to get the flat spot thump out of them.
Fair snow traction, acceptable but not as good as new Firehawks.
They do make the ride a harsher, I'd guess that the great on center feel and cornering comes from stiffer sidewalls and that translates into the harsher ride.
Try resend to @att.com
I can vouch for the wet weather capabilites of the Pilot Sport A/S. I was in a long left turn lane approaching a large intersection (4+ lanes) right after a major thunderstorm - doing about 40 (it's a long radius turn because of the width of the road. Didn't see the BIG RED LIGHT for some reason and had to nail the porterfields just as I was beginning to turn to avoid the Taurus turning left from the other direction right in front of me. No ABS, skidding or hydroplaning. It just stopped dead within a couple of car lengths. I have yet to get them to hydroplane or break traction. Look at the tread and you'll see why. This also mirrors the test results that I've seen. More than worth the small loss in dry traction for everyday driving. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for.
Chris, blue calipers would look great on Silver.
The job took over two hours just for the front pads, but much of this time was spent cleaning all the accumulated brake dust off the the wheels (inside and out) and me! Removing the caliper and changing the pads is a snap to do yourself (I had never attempted this job before). I've only done one short little trip to make sure the brakes function properly (they do) but couldn't get a real feel for how much better they are at stopping than the stock pads.
I'll be changing the rear pads out by Saturday, so this job isn't entirely done yet. I'll report back as the job gets completed and the pads bed in.
I received my Porterfields today ($178) and am awaiting my Snap-On "Piston Rotation Tool" for the rear R&R. I called for quotes from local shops for just pad R&R. Prices range from $80 to 150. That's a lot for a few minutes work. These guys even have the time-saving tools. The high quote was for two hours labor. No rotor turning included. I will be doing this myself!
Sorry to be so obtuse.
This is the normal way to rotate tires when you've got a space-saver spare.
Thanks. Didn'know that. However how would the tires know if you had a space saver spare and they skipped that position in the rotation?
The recommended 4 tire rotation for regular (non uni-directional) is rear tires to front, both stay on the same side and the front tires cross over to the opposite side on the rears.
Refer to page 216 in your LS owners manual.
Actually it is amazing how much information and different opinions are out there on something as simple as tire rotation.
The Front to Rear tire rotation on the same side method had its origins when radial tires first came out. It was felt that the radial cords took a set and changing their direction of rotation would not only cause the tires to thump for several thousand miles, but the changing of rotation directions could cause the radial tires to fail.
In the late 70's most tire manufactures started recommending cross over rotation for all tires, including radials.
I really do not belive in tire rotation, unless there is an indicated wear problem. I believe that the manufacturer's tire rotation recommendation is more of an excuse to give the dealers something to do, and charge you for if your car doesn't come with "free" maintainance.
Front wheel drive cars will usually wear the fronts much faster than the rears, but so far on my LS I have found that the tire wear has been very even between the fronts and rears.
I have heard that BMW now believes this too and does not recomend tire rotation. They say that changing the rotation direction requires the tires to take several thousand miles to set in again.
Discussed this a while back with Joe166 who has always done 5 wheel rotations. He tells me he never noticed a handling issue.
Just another perspective on this issue I guess. Anyway, I bought three Hawks, will use the brand new spare, and will go to a four wheel rotation if I see uneven wear.
I recently replaced my original Firehawks at 32K miles with Michelin Pilot AS Sports. The car now rides like a totally different animal. The biggest difference I notice is not that it is tremendously more sticky in the corners, but that it cruises much more smoothly than on the Firestones.
Supercharger Question:
Has anyone added an Eaton Supercharger to the V8? I see that Ford is now using these on a few models, and was wondering how smoothly they would adapt to the 3.9 liter engine.
Thanks.
As far as superchargers I think there have been a couple of Lincoln prototypes but nothing official yet. McLaren is selling a version of the LSE with a supercharger (I think it's an Eaton) but it will be a 03 model and details of the 03 V8 aren't released yet, but assuming the 03 V8 is still the AJV8 with at least 275 hp the McLaren version should bump it to 375 hp with the supercharger. But 40 of that extra 100 hp is from a modified intake/exhaust setup. Jaguar has already announced their 2003 S-type R using a 4.2L version of the AJV8 with a supercharger producing 388 hp.
Rumour has Lincoln using a 400 hp normally aspirated 5.0L modular V8 in 2004 with a 6-spd manual.