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Comments
I would like to know is there going to be a memory seat package for the X-type soon? (maybe in 2003 or 2004?)
I have also saw the English version of Jaguar 2.0 FWD in London last month. They did not have the stick manual brake, but rather a electronically operated parking brake: a small chrome lever located behind the transmission is pulled up to put the brake on... just like the 2003 S-type (got that description from edmunds.com) Will the U.S. version have that little chrome lever instead the traditional manual brakes? Thanks
Anyone else with these problems?
I have not had any water leakage problems at all. Also, my suspension has never been loud or made thundering or bottoming-out sounds, nor has any piece of the interior opened or broken off at will. How did so much water get into your car? I hope you can get it fixed and running the way you like. Sorry to hear about all of your troubles. Good luck.
I should have bought the LS, any suggestions.
4angels, Floyd Miller (chirolife@aol.com)
My previous car was a 2000 BMW 328 with a Dinan sport package. Any of you guys make a similar transition and have any thoughts btw these two automobiles? While the BMW was a great car and I really enjoyed driving it I wanted to find out more about the x-type 3.0 before getting another 330 BMW.
TJ
My problems have included:
-- Leaking windshield nozzles (fixed)
-- Rocking seat (not fixed)
-- The "slipping belt noise" (went away by itself after the second drive shaft was in place for awhile)
-- The "wine glass" noise (fixed by second drive shaft)
-- Stuck passenger seat belt (not fixed - and not even offered to be fixed even after it being noticed by the service manager and general manager of the dealership on 2 test drives)
-- Trunk closing difficulties (*maybe* fixed by me snapping off the glow tag when I pulled on it)
-- Snapping sound from the gear shift lever - brake interlock mechanism (?)
-- Vibration at +50 mph (fixed with the first drive shaft replacement, reappeared with the second)
-- Rattle from the right rear passenger seat area (maybe from the speaker in the door).
Well, that was enough for me. I dumped the Jag and got a 2002 Lexus ES300 this past Friday. The Lexus dealer was even nice enough to give me a RX300 to drive for a couple days while the car I wanted was found to be already enroute to the dealership. The car is rock solid and silky smooth at any speed, no rattles, has a 6 CD in-dash player, a more powerful engine, better quality interior controls and materials, etc. and was stickered $2K less than my X. And from talking to all the doctors where I work, I won't have any trouble from the local dealer, either (Hendrick Lexus here in Charlotte). EVERY Lexus owner I've spoken to has raved about their cars and the dealership here.
Oh, I don't want you all to be surprised when you go to trade your X-type in. The best price I could get anywhere for my X was 30% off what I paid! And that's with less than 2K miles on it! Guess the word has gotten around on the X!
So, after ordering my X-type in late September and waiting until Dec. 28th for delivery (11/01 build if anyone's interested), SIX visits to the dealer for repairs totaling about 28 days, and once having to drive a Chevy S-10 pickup truck for two weeks as their loaner, I say farewell to Scott Jaguar here in Charlotte! The X was an expensive mistake! Reminded me of the 1987 Plymouth Sundance turbo I had. Had to take that puppy back to the dealer 12 times in the 13 months I owned it - and only got back 50% when I traded that piece of scrap in. Traded it for a '88 Toyota Celica. Then got a '92 Celica. Only had 1 warranty repair on either car the whole ten years I owned them. Should have stayed in the Toyota family, I guess. :-)
Oh, and something else that is more unbelievable than anything....(!!) My Lexus salesman called me a day before delivery. He told me he had called my insurance company and they have no record of my Jag! They still have me driving my previous car! So, I've been riding around without any insurance for the past 5 1/2 months! The Jag dealer didn't notify my insurance company like they should have. I called the Jag dealership and spoke with the GM (the owner's son, I think) and read him the riot act on that one! He said the business manager with whom I dealt was no longer working there, and he blamed my salesman. I also told him of my new problems. As for the snapping/clicking sound out of the gearshift, he told me the old, tired line "They all do that"! Can you believe those clowns??!!
I know that some of you will wonder why I didn't go the lemon law route. I just didn't want the hassle, having to deal with the dealership even one more time, or with Jag corporate. After 5 1/2 months of driving that car, it was worth the money hit I took just to walk away from it.
Unbelievable! Most owners hide from the public and let the GM take the flack.
Let me add two things. A Lexus ES300 is not comparable to the Jag in any meaningful way in MNSHO. And I have NEVER left notification of my insurance company up to the dealer. It is your responsiblity.
I have found the Doctors I have dealt with to be uniformly extremely smart but blessed with common sense in just about the same ratio as the rest of the world, they just don't know that. Good luck with your Lexus, it is a nice car and the dealer network is excellent. They treat you like a king and for the most part, the customer is always right. They make you THINK that all that is free. Nothing is free.
I find TownHall grab bag's current question topic interesting. Desertguy bought an "upgraded" Ford Mondeo and relishes it; Neuroguy got an "upgraded" Toyota Camry and loves it as well. I drive an "upgraded" car as well: an Alfa 164 which shares platforms with the SAAB 9000 and Fiat Croma. I agree that Jaguar has more of a cachet than Lexus does, but it has decreased somewhat with the X-type - the "cheap" Jaguar. Lexus's however is rising with the introduction of the SC430. When I was little, I used to think Jaguars were untouchable...
Leo
However, Neuroguy has about convinced me to pass on the X, especially since I, too, live in Charlotte (small world -- also saw your same post on Jagtalk). While the dealer would be very close to my office, I don't think I could deal with constant problems. Maybe this would be solved by the 2003. I don't care if Jag is raising the price -- they'll still have to heavily subsidize the leases.
I have had NO problems with my X-TYPE except for the initially leaking windshield wiper jets that were promptly fixed by my dealer, who has also been very good to me. To this day, I am still impressed with my car in every respect, from its solid build quality to its unique styling and inspiring performance. I would not take any other car for it, and much like you, I had previously really wanted a 330i before the X-TYPE was released. When I compared the two cars however, and both are exceptional, the X-TYPE came out on top. I preferred its distinctive eye-catching styling, its smooth ride and road manners, its richer interior appointments, its larger size, and its individuality. It just made me happier to be around than the other cars I was considering. You should get whatever car your tastes prefer.
Don't let one very vocal person who had issues with his car drive you away from the X-TYPE. You have tested the vehicle for yourself and made your own judgments, and it comes down to what you truly want. Good luck, and I hope you choose the car that is best for you.
On another note, the Jaguar-branded leather cleaner seems to work very well on the dirt-gathering Ivory interior. Better, in my opinion, than Lexol...
Bill
Note these are not my views (I have no experience with the car personally).
The article quotes several owners who have experienced problems with their cars. Most say it's not only the problems that are bad, it's also the dealer and/or Jaguar itself not providing any assistance and follow-up.
While I don't have a link, here's a quote lifted from the article:
"Jaguar Cars Ltd. is at risk of alienating its newest group of owners, many of who complain their new X-Type sedans have an array of irritating quality snafus. While none of the problems directly affect safety or operation, they are of sufficient annoyance that some first-time Jaguar buyers say they're ready to bolt the franchise."
The article says there are two separate drivetrain problems:
1. A high-pitched noise during acceleration up to 70 mph. This problem is so widespread there has been a bulletin issued and a manufacturing change has taken place to correct the problem.
2. A noise during cold-weather driving. This problem has not been acknowledged by Jaguar, and some owners have had prop-shafts replaced (some more than once, including one guy who is on his sixth).
Some other quotes from the article:
(An owner named Miller): "While he loves his X-Type, Miller is frustrated by his dealer's inability to repair the problems, despite three visits to the service bay."
(An owner named Kennedy): "But the prop-shaft is only one of several problems Kennedy sites, including a rocking driver seat, weeping windshield washer nozzles, vibration from the tires above 45 mph, and an apparent knocking from the CV joints when turning. 'It seems to me that Jaguar doesn't know how to handle my problems, and it's taken them a long time to get this under control...'"
"Many of the X-Type customers are buying their first luxury car and are bristling that a luxury carmaker can't solve the problem on its first attempt. None of the customers interviewed for this article said they had been contacted by a Jaguar representative. Said Moss: 'If you insult one customer, you lose 25 of his friends down at the country club. And Jaguar is still considered a risky purchase."
Also, why is making a manufacturing change & issuing a TSB bad? Sounds to me like they're trying to fix the whining-at-70MPH problem.
Remember, this is the first car in Jaguar's history with AWD and a sideways engine. A lot of engineering was done in-house by Jaguar, despite the Ford platform, so a learning curve is to be expected when heading out into uncharted waters. It's a chance the owners took buying a 1st year model, especially with a lot of technology the automaker had never tried before.
I cannot help but feel as if any problems that Jaguar may have on any of its cars are looked upon more harshly than problems with other marques' cars because of the past reliability issues that Jaguar used to have. The bullet-proof Mercedes-Benz has more reliability problems with its cars now than Jaguar ever had, and Audi and BMW currently cannot even get their speedometers and odometers functioning properly.
These are just very vocalized announcements about temporary problems with the X-TYPE, and after some of the initial problems on a few of the early production models are fixed, everyone will be very pleased with their cars. My only problem was the weeping windshield washer nozzles, and those were fixed in less than 15 minutes by having my dealer simply tighten two valves on the underside of the car's bonnet. After that, there have been no problems at all, and I still cannot get over how much I love this car.
Every manufacturer has initial problems, especially on new models. Jaguar knows how to please its customers, and it still builds world-class cars.
Answer: NO!
"Does anybody here have one that doesn't?"
Yes, I think that many people have X-TYPEs that are working perfectly, and then there are a few that happen to have this very annoying problem. My X-TYPE is in perfect working order with not even a rattle, as many of the cars are. It is a superb car regardless of a few that have problems in their first model year, and it happens to be publicized more because it is a Jaguar, and Jaguar's first new compact entry-level sedan in a long time.
I did some research into the problems that plague some X-TYPEs, and I found that it is a very few number of cars that actually have the driveshaft or whining in cold weather problems. Also, if you have one that has none of those problems, then your car most likely will not develop the problems either - very good news.
That is why any little problems with Jaguars are scrutinized, where as larger problems on other manufacturers' cars (like the speedometers that do not function properly on BMW's) are overlooked. How many of you knew that the newly introduced, $87,165 Maserati Spyder has a recall because it requires "modifications to their power steering hoses to avoid the possibility of engine fires, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said". That sounds much more serious than annoying sounds or vibrations.
Jaguar is doing great and has nothing to worry about if it can keep its few problems out of the vocal media the way other manufacturers do. All it needs is the reputation of being reliable - the cars themselves already are.
And how would reading about the problems that many Mercedes-Benz drivers are having make me "feel a little bit better"? My post above already said that "I do understand that it would be terribly annoying and upsetting to have a car that doesn't work properly, and I am sorry for those people who have problems". Why would knowing that people are upset cause satisfaction for me? Does it for you? Are you that kind of person?
I don't have any "unfulfilled expectations" of my new X-TYPE, and I never said that more expensive marques get criticized more than lesser ones either. My car has been working perfectly, and I am glad to hear that your car has been the same for you. Also like you about BMW, I feel that there is not much to criticize about Jaguar, as every one that we have had has been great, and I have found that they are still some of the best world-class cars around. That was the entire point of my last few posts, but it must have been written in too complex a form if you got nothing from it.
How are your seats looking? I clean mine all of the time to keep them looking brand-new, and I was wondering how someone else with Ivory was doing. Someone posted that Jaguar's leather cleaner has worked best for them with Ivory, so I'll check on that next time I'm at the dealer. What do you use? Our Ivory interior S-TYPE has a slight belt stain on the seat, and nothing else has taken it out yet. I'm thinking of seat covers for my X as a last resort if I get any stains.
This is not true, especially compared to the Japanese cars.
If you take a look at J.D. Power's latest study in 2002 initial vehicle quality (released yesterday) you'll see there's not a Jaguar to be found at the top of any list.
Lots and lots of Japanese products. And the plant that produces the best cars in the world is located in Japan.
That's not to say that somebody does not prefer a Jaguar to own. There is a lot of emotion that goes into car buying that is not based on facts.
How is your Toyota engine sluge, anyway?
http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/01102afull.gif
Thanks for the Lexol information. I'll go check it out.
http://www.leatherique.com/Default.htm
I also said that, of course, there is more to buying a car than just reliability. There is a lot of emotion involved. People buy cars for a host of reasons.
As for the engine sludge, I've had no problem whatsoever. And if a day comes when there is a problem, I am confident Lexus would take care of the problem. Unlike your beloved Jaguar, which according to the previously posted article (a trade article for dealers no less, not a consumer article) has annoyed many customers by not responding to their problems.
No car is perfect, or made for everybody. You need to listen to the criticism people have of the X-Type as well as the positives instead of getting so defensive.
There are people reading these forums searching for information that do not know a lot about cars. By posting articles these people can learn more before buying a car. That's why many people go to Edmunds - for new info.
Despite what you may think, I have nothing against the X-Type. I believe the more competitors the better.
Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.
And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.
Pat
Sedans Host
if you doubt me, go to http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov and check for yourself. the difference is the way the manufacturer deals with the problems. where jaguar customers have to pull teeth to get jaguar to fix something, lexus does it many times before the customer even recognizes a problem exists. it's a matter of customer service, and yes, lexus does a better job than jaguar in that respect.
as for problems with the cars though, the x-type does not have more than the average first year model, and in fact has half the problems the 02 es300 has.
I was going by initial quality as reported by JD Power. According to that study, only the Thunderbird had fewer initial problems than the ES 300 in the entry-luxury class. I guess if something is wrong and taken care of before I notice I don't care about it.
I appreciate the response.
as a side note, i looked at the 02 camry numbers, there are already more than 20 tsbs.
lenscap, i appreciate you taking the time to look at the data.
If you would like, I could post the many articles that I have found both for consumers and dealers about the Toyota/Lexus "oil gelling" (as they call it) problem. It took a colossal amount of unhappy and annoyed Toyota/Lexus owners to finally get Toyota/Lexus to even admit that there was a flaw in the design of their engines, a problem which dates back to 1997! So for five years, Toyota/Lexus said that it was the car owners' fault for having engines that sludged! Yeah, you are right, they give great service, if you can call that service. I'm glad they have your confidence.
Jaguar may have a few initial problems related to unwanted sounds on a few of the brand new, new-technology X-TYPEs, but they have engines that function properly and they do not blame their problems on their customers. I have had NO problems whatsoever with my Jaguar X-TYPE, and I have full confidence that Jaguar will work out the problems in all of the few cars that have them. I even found some articles where some surveyed X-TYPE owners who actually had problems came back for a follow-up response after Jaguar responded to them, and they had nothing but praise for the service they recieved and thier cars.
As for your remark about service from Jaguar, I have had nothing but good experiences with my dealer and the Jaguar company itself. I also must say out of experience from ownership that Jaguar makes some of the finest cars the world has to offer. Since you have no experience with any of these aspects, you have no basis to make any valid statements about Jaguar's service, ownership experience, how they treat their customers, or even the cars themselves.
You would not have come here and posted unflattering articles about the X-TYPE had you not had, "nothing against the X-Type". In your message addressed to desertguy, you make the statement that you "believe the more competitors, the better". This establishes that you believe that the Jaguar X-TYPE and your stylistically challenged Lexus ES300 are competators with one another on the market. Then, in that same post, you state, "There are people reading these forums searching for information that do not know a lot about cars. By posting articles, these people can learn more before buying a car". This establishes that you are trying to educate the unknowlegeable public with the information that you post on these boards. By posting only unflattering information about a car that you consider a major competator to the car you are trying to promote, you are attempting to make it appear to the "people who do not know a lot about cars" as if that competator is horribly unfit for them, and as a car in general. Your true intentions seem to be to try and sell the ES300 to the public over the X-TYPE, not make a fair and unbiast observation about any car.