what do you guys think is a better deal between a jag 2.5 fully loaded or a a6 2.8 fully loaded?, they both come out to be about 40k, what is a better deal???
I bought a Lincoln LS about a year ago, after a lot of research and shopping. If the X-Type had been around then it would have been at the top of my list, especially because the price, as initially reported in the magazines, was low to mid-$30s. But the prices I'm seeing discussed here will get you a V8 LS, fully optioned. A bigger, faster, and probably better-handling car. Definitely not looking for an argument here, just wondering why the LS seems absent from the comparisons here. Too big? Too Ford?
brent, what would u like better, and scott, thats a lot of bull, that a a ls would handle better, it it only faster, and bigger, but wind noise and the more luxorious type would be the x, also the x is a sports sedan, i think most people wouldn't think a ls is a sports sedan, no offfense to it, im pretty sure it's a good car and everything...but thats all im saying..
You are wrong that the LS is not a sports sedan. Go drive one and do so without thinking about it being a Lincoln. People's perception have prevented its acceptance as a sports sedan. On wind noise, I think it is quieter than the X-Type and have driven both. However, had the X-Type been around, I would have bought that over an LS because it handles as close to a BMW as you can get without losing ride quality (I actually ended up with an Acura TL as a better value even though the Lincoln LS handling is better). Now, I think an X-Type is preferable to any other in the class if you prefer a nicer ride than a 3 series. Price is a question mark, however, for a loaded X-Type.
Just to remind you, the LS is built on a Jag S-Type chassis, therefore it can't be a traditional Lincoln. It is sportier than a Jaguar, and Jags are by no means mushy~ A.R.
if you're in the mood to compare, compare the x-type to the s-type, they're 40% the same. you might as well start comparing the x-type to the discovery II, they're similar in price too.
to the target x-type market, the ls being bigger is not a plus, it is a negative more for many of us, a big negative. if we wanted a big car we'd buy an s-type, or a 530, or an e320, or an ls, or an a6. this car is aimed at the 3-series, c-class, a4 market, NOT the 5-series, e-class, a6, and yes, ls market. if you want a bigger car, buy a bigger car, don't waste your time with the x-type. if you're still interested in a jaguar, look at an s-type.
and by the way, the x-type is not only better handling than the ls, it's faster too (ls 0-60 7.5 sec, 1/4 mile 16.5 sec, x-type 0-60 6.6 sec, 1/4 mile 15.1 sec). it's quicker and better handling because it's smaller, stiffer, and more powerful pound for pound. it's in a different class. stop comparing them, it's silly.
not that i don't like this open discussion or anything.....
Will be interesting to finally read some car magazine comparisons involving the X-type. For all the interest, seems like it isn't getting much press. From what I've seen at my local Jag dealer, not sure what the X-type is in competiton with. Looked at a beautiful British Racing Green fully loaded 3.0 auto Sport on Labor Day. Window sticker was a bit over $43,000. That puts it above a fully loaded LS, near the very top of the 330i range, and at the start of the 5 Series & S-type price range. (This dealer's 3.0 S-types had stickers around $48,000.)
The S-type looked more sensuous in comparison to the more aggressive X-type, which looked like a baby XJ Sedan. The trunk space was quite impressive for its diminutive overall length, though the back seat seems to suffer. Trunk bigger than cars like LS & S-type or 5 Series.
"Looked at a beautiful British Racing Green fully loaded 3.0 auto Sport on Labor Day. Window sticker was a bit over $43,000...near the very top of the 330i range"
exactly! it's aimed at the 3-series. a fully loaded X-Type 3.0 will be very similar in price to a 330xi, ditto for a 2.5 X-Type and a 325xi. they're also close to the m-b c320 and c240. similar in power and size as well. there should be no question what the competition is, it's perfectly clear.
euro mags have done comparisons. the players are always the x-type, 3-series, c-class, a4 and then sometimes a lexus is, sometimes a volvo s60.
two prime examples are "what car?" (x-type won) and "evo" (x-type 2nd, bmw 1st).
Not sure whether to trust the British press when comparing a Euro-American/British X-type (really Ford of Europe Mondeo turned Jag X-type) to German or other continental cars. Brits very proud of their cars! If one were to focus on the X-types' humble Mondeo origins then it might be legitimate to compare it to lots of cars (e.g., Subaru AWDers).
Too bad for us that the number and type choices of cars is much greater in Europe than in America. They have a much wider selection of makes (e.g., Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, etc.), models (getting cars from mfgs who sell here but won't sell that particular model here), engines (e.g., diesels in most lines), transmissions (prefering manuals over automatics), etc.
I think comparisons are in the mind of the buyer. A $43,000 loaded 3.0 auto Sport X-type might be a legitimate comparison to a $40,000 Lexus GS300 or $42,000 530i. Then again the base $30,000 2.5 manual X-type might compete against a 325i, A4, or IS300. I'm guessing you'll be hard pressed to find an X-type on a dealer's lot that is priced below $34,000.
of course there not going to be under 34, jaguar always puts a certain package on their cars, like the prem. lexus does the same...no onw likes to buy a base car with nothing on it, i man whos gonna buy a gs300 w/o leather???
of course theres not going to be under 34, jaguar always puts a certain package on their cars, like the prem. lexus does the same...no onw likes to buy a base car with nothing on it, i man whos gonna buy a gs300 w/o leather???
For an interesting comparison, check out the current issue of Car & Driver. Comparison test of a $40,800 Audi S4 Quattro and $39,100 BMW 330xi versus a lowly $24,500 Subaru Imprenza WRX. The Audi barely beat out the Subaru and the BMW finishes last. Now wondering why C&D didn't try to add a Jag X-type in the mix. Would've been interesting to see how an X-type 2.5 would've compared.
If dealers won't stock and Jag doesn't really want to sell a base X-type, then why bother pushing the under $30,000 price? Minute you get to dealership your jaw drops looking at $34-44,000 X-types. Does Jag really need to use price leader gimmick to move good metal? Why not make standard the "necessary" equipment and sell it that way? Seems so "unBritish" to try and fool an educated aristocratic elite who might be inclined to jump for a BRG Jag. Do they try the price leader ruse in merry old England? Guessing the cheapest USA '03 X-type will move up past $30,000 barrier anyway.
what do you guys think is a better deal, a 2.5 with everything except sport, but with a auto trans, or a 3.0 auto with x1, and nav, and cd, i live in san diego, cali, so i don't think i would need the weather...
not to get emotional about this (i don't own this car) but some research before you post would be beneficial. an x-type 2.5 would not be a good comparison in the test you mentioned above, because that was based on cars with similar power and size. an x-type 3.0 would be a good addition to that test. why compare a car with 194 hp to 3 that all have more than 225?
as for comparisons being in the mind of the buyer i agree to an extent. when you eliminate class (size) from the equation, and start using base cars vs fully loaded cars the comparison loses all relevance. there is a jag designed to compete with the gs300 and 530i, it's called an s-type. it starts at $43k, notice how similar in price to the gs300 and 530i. you'll also notice similar power and size. the x-type isn't inteded or designed to compete with the cars you're comparing them to. you are trying to force a square peg into a round hole by making this "comparison". i highly suggest you look at an s-type, it'll match far more of your needs of you choose to look at a gs300 or 530i as competition.
as for concentrating on the mondeo, that's just trying to find negatives. the passat is far, far more similar to an a4/a6 than the mondeo is to the x-type. a camry is far, far more similar to an es300 than a mondeo is to an x-type. an accord is far, far more similar to a TL than an x-type is to a mondeo. in fact a camry is far, far more similar to an rx300 than an x-type is to a mondeo (40% shared). i don't see anyone saying you should compare a camry to an explorer because the camry is the base of the rx300! the x-type and mondeo share about 20% of their parts, and most of those "shared" have been modified by jaguar. they are not the same car. they do not drive the same. the do not feel the same. they do not look the same.
as for the price leader "ruse" in england, they're far worse there than here. in england things like power windows (front and rear are separate items!), leather and climate control are options! you get far less in the base car there than you do here.
i apologize in advance for my rant, i just can't let stuff like that go without saying anything.
I have been looking at the X-Type since it was first announced. I have driven the 330, A4, and the A6 2.8. I also looked at the Lincoln LS 6 and it seemed to be a real contender but the 7.5 second 0-60 time just didn't make it (I had owned a Ford SHO 5-speed that got to 60 in around 6.4 seconds). I later tried the A6 2.7T and it was great - like the SHO but more refined - and all wheel drive to deal with the really steep roads in the winter where I live.
Then I drove the X-Type 2.5 manual (non-Sport) and it was nice, had the AWD so I could let my wife use the Tahoe in the bad weather, but it was not quite fast enough. Then the dealer got a 3.0 Sport in and it fits the bill!
The car accelerates very quickly (yes there is a real difference in the 2.5 and the 3.0), handles brilliantly (the Sport package isn't just bigger bolstered seats and blacked-out/body-color trim), the transmission shifted smoothly and lightly, and it was quiet. The interior is first class (we have owned Jaguars in the past and it continues the tradition). After more than one look, the black stained wood trim seemed to fit the nature of the car. The only drawbacks are the lack of an in-dash CD (you can only play a CD if you get the in-trunk changer), and the single front seat cupholder. The car was totally rattle free. I was told that you can order just the CD changer with the regular radio for about $800. I tried several audio houses and they do not have anything they believe will fit the X-Type. The Jaguar parts department has all the pieces if you want to do it yourself for about $600.
I have visited three dealers that are within a reasonable one-hour drive. Two were well mannered and knowledgeable about the car, the other did not know much about the car and, despite follow-up calls on my part, never called back. I believe that, as in any other line of work, people make the difference, and this one dealer's representatives were the exceptions to the rule.
I am trying to decide between Platinum and Titanium. I am glad I visited this site as my only reason not to order the Titanium was the slight blue tone to it. If the replacement color is all gray-scale I will probably order that.
i've seen the titanium replacement called quartz(as a 2002 S-Type colour chip) and the difference appears (from a 2X2 inch view) that there's a lack of blue. it seems to be pure gray. that should convince you!
Ford has done nothing but good for Jaguar...I seriously don't think the X-type is a case of the Cimmaron, for one reason - you're already starting with an excellent car as the basis.
I'm a new salesman with Jaguar and we had our 1st introduction to the new X-type today(working for a new store that will open Oct1st). All I can say is wow. Anyone who will compare it to the ford Mondeo is incorrect. They share very few components (ever seen a awd contour with 231hp?) One drive will satisfy your curiosity and confirm that this is Jaguar.
Headlight washers will not be part of the x1(premium) package but are included in as part of the x3(Weather) package (heated seats, headlamp washers, dynamic stability control). As far as the JaguarNet, it is an individual option and not standard on this vehicle. I have noticed that most cars are coming with with the x1 package at a minimum, but haven't seen many JaguarNet or Navigation cars yet.
Just bought one of these beauties, Adriatic blue. I will take delivery on Monday after detailing and chromes are added. I'll report my experiences.....
Curious to see how your experiences differ from the dozens of members of the Jagtalk.com board ( http://www.Jagtalk.com ) who all seem to love their cars.
Wow, the handling with the performance package is top notch. Comfy, great interior too. Five speed felt silky smooth and that throttle-by-wire felt sensational. Good sized trunk with a nice low lift-over too. Very nice looking, feeling, classy car.
On the downside, the hood was impossible for me to open and once I did, I found the engine compartment's refill fluids were poorly arranged. Lastly, the plastic grill that's attached to the hood felt very cheap. I can imagine that breaking without much effort.
Nice car, but my inability to access the engine compartment has X-ed it off my list.
Blueguydotcom...you're crossing the X off your list because you had trouble opening the hood? You loved the handling, interior, transmission, trunck, looks, feel and felt it was classy. But you had trouble opening the hood, so that's it? Hey everyone...I own one of these. Believe me, it's not that difficult to open the hood, and the grill won't fall off!
It's not that I had "trouble" opening the hood. It's that it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to do so (arthritic fingers). The design places the release lever several inches behind the cheap/flimsy plastic grill. A simple VW-style popout hood release lever would have solved the problem. Nice car otherwise.
Does anyone still make grills out of metal? I don't see what the big deal is of making plastic grills. Seems like it would meet durability requirements just fine, unless you're kicking it or running into things.
Most cars don't have you lift the hood by the flimsy plastic grill though. Having a plastic grill is not bad. Having people pull up on it to lift an entire hood is a recipe for disaster.
I've had the car since Monday, 3.0 in Adriatic blue. My initial impression is...wow...really fun to drive and fit and finish and ergonomics are great! I didn't get the sport package, but drove it and it really handled, plus the lateral support in the seats is unbelievable. I couldn't jusify the extra 2k+ bucks, however.
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The Mondeo platform is a great place to start. For those of you who don't know, the Mondeo was named best handling car in its class by CAR magazine of Great Britain (A field which includes the new Passat, Rover 175, & Alfa Romeo 156). The addition of All Wheel Drive makes the handling even more nimble. While I am a big fan of the X-Type's styling, the car I sat in at the NY Auto Show was cramped. I also notcied the leather on the test car was wearing from everybody getting in and out of it. The trunk was massive. The sub-$30K pricing seems absurd. I'm sure the dealers will have 2.5s stickering for mid to upper $30s. Road & Track recently tested a 3.0 X Type that listed for $45K! Yikes! I'll have to drive it to give it my final verdict.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Have you bought or shopped for a 3-Series BMW, C-Class Mercedes, Jaguar X-Type or other small sports sedan since Sept 11? If so, your comments are of great interest. Please get in touch with me via jfallon@edmunds.com.
I've had a free X-Type Auto Show on display about a block from my home now for over a week.
The Westin Hotel down the street is having some sort of X-Type Fantasy Drive and has had a half dozen X-Types on display in front of the hotel. Anyone know anything about this promotion?
While I've considered the X-Type for my next car (Nov. 2002) I kind of lost interest. After seeing this display I'm very impressed. I fell in love with a racing green 2.5 with ivory trim. Thought I wanted a Sport Package, but I think without the chrome the car is too generic and less Jaguar-like.
A 2.5 automatic with a premium packeage would top out around $35000. I'm looking to lease and may have access to an x-plan. Wonder what kind of payment we're talking about. A year from now of course, there may be more deals on the car.
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What car do you like better? The better deal is the car you will be happiest with!
Bill
to the target x-type market, the ls being bigger is not a plus, it is a negative more for many of us, a big negative. if we wanted a big car we'd buy an s-type, or a 530, or an e320, or an ls, or an a6. this car is aimed at the 3-series, c-class, a4 market, NOT the 5-series, e-class, a6, and yes, ls market. if you want a bigger car, buy a bigger car, don't waste your time with the x-type. if you're still interested in a jaguar, look at an s-type.
and by the way, the x-type is not only better handling than the ls, it's faster too (ls 0-60 7.5 sec, 1/4 mile 16.5 sec, x-type 0-60 6.6 sec, 1/4 mile 15.1 sec). it's quicker and better handling because it's smaller, stiffer, and more powerful pound for pound. it's in a different class. stop comparing them, it's silly.
not that i don't like this open discussion or anything.....
The S-type looked more sensuous in comparison to the more aggressive X-type, which looked like a baby XJ Sedan. The trunk space was quite impressive for its diminutive overall length, though the back seat seems to suffer. Trunk bigger than cars like LS & S-type or 5 Series.
exactly! it's aimed at the 3-series. a fully loaded X-Type 3.0 will be very similar in price to a 330xi, ditto for a 2.5 X-Type and a 325xi. they're also close to the m-b c320 and c240. similar in power and size as well. there should be no question what the competition is, it's perfectly clear.
euro mags have done comparisons. the players are always the x-type, 3-series, c-class, a4 and then sometimes a lexus is, sometimes a volvo s60.
two prime examples are "what car?" (x-type won) and "evo" (x-type 2nd, bmw 1st).
Too bad for us that the number and type choices of cars is much greater in Europe than in America. They have a much wider selection of makes (e.g., Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, etc.), models (getting cars from mfgs who sell here but won't sell that particular model here), engines (e.g., diesels in most lines), transmissions (prefering manuals over automatics), etc.
I think comparisons are in the mind of the buyer. A $43,000 loaded 3.0 auto Sport X-type might be a legitimate comparison to a $40,000 Lexus GS300 or $42,000 530i. Then again the base $30,000 2.5 manual X-type might compete against a 325i, A4, or IS300. I'm guessing you'll be hard pressed to find an X-type on a dealer's lot that is priced below $34,000.
Bill
If dealers won't stock and Jag doesn't really want to sell a base X-type, then why bother pushing the under $30,000 price? Minute you get to dealership your jaw drops looking at $34-44,000 X-types. Does Jag really need to use price leader gimmick to move good metal? Why not make standard the "necessary" equipment and sell it that way? Seems so "unBritish" to try and fool an educated aristocratic elite who might be inclined to jump for a BRG Jag. Do they try the price leader ruse in merry old England? Guessing the cheapest USA '03 X-type will move up past $30,000 barrier anyway.
as for comparisons being in the mind of the buyer i agree to an extent. when you eliminate class (size) from the equation, and start using base cars vs fully loaded cars the comparison loses all relevance. there is a jag designed to compete with the gs300 and 530i, it's called an s-type. it starts at $43k, notice how similar in price to the gs300 and 530i. you'll also notice similar power and size. the x-type isn't inteded or designed to compete with the cars you're comparing them to. you are trying to force a square peg into a round hole by making this "comparison". i highly suggest you look at an s-type, it'll match far more of your needs of you choose to look at a gs300 or 530i as competition.
as for concentrating on the mondeo, that's just trying to find negatives. the passat is far, far more similar to an a4/a6 than the mondeo is to the x-type. a camry is far, far more similar to an es300 than a mondeo is to an x-type. an accord is far, far more similar to a TL than an x-type is to a mondeo. in fact a camry is far, far more similar to an rx300 than an x-type is to a mondeo (40% shared). i don't see anyone saying you should compare a camry to an explorer because the camry is the base of the rx300! the x-type and mondeo share about 20% of their parts, and most of those "shared" have been modified by jaguar. they are not the same car. they do not drive the same. the do not feel the same. they do not look the same.
as for the price leader "ruse" in england, they're far worse there than here. in england things like power windows (front and rear are separate items!), leather and climate control are options! you get far less in the base car there than you do here.
i apologize in advance for my rant, i just can't let stuff like that go without saying anything.
Then I drove the X-Type 2.5 manual (non-Sport) and it was nice, had the AWD so I could let my wife use the Tahoe in the bad weather, but it was not quite fast enough. Then the dealer got a 3.0 Sport in and it fits the bill!
The car accelerates very quickly (yes there is a real difference in the 2.5 and the 3.0), handles brilliantly (the Sport package isn't just bigger bolstered seats and blacked-out/body-color trim), the transmission shifted smoothly and lightly, and it was quiet. The interior is first class (we have owned Jaguars in the past and it continues the tradition). After more than one look, the black stained wood trim seemed to fit the nature of the car. The only drawbacks are the lack of an in-dash CD (you can only play a CD if you get the in-trunk changer), and the single front seat cupholder. The car was totally rattle free. I was told that you can order just the CD changer with the regular radio for about $800. I tried several audio houses and they do not have anything they believe will fit the X-Type. The Jaguar parts department has all the pieces if you want to do it yourself for about $600.
I have visited three dealers that are within a reasonable one-hour drive. Two were well mannered and knowledgeable about the car, the other did not know much about the car and, despite follow-up calls on my part, never called back. I believe that, as in any other line of work, people make the difference, and this one dealer's representatives were the exceptions to the rule.
I am trying to decide between Platinum and Titanium. I am glad I visited this site as my only reason not to order the Titanium was the slight blue tone to it. If the replacement color is all gray-scale I will probably order that.
I personally like the look of Titanium over Platinum, but, as we speak, Silver cars are running for higher prices on the used market than new ones.
I.E. Silver has better resale... Its' almost always a "safe" color, while Greys can be fickle..
Just a thought if you are kinda "swaying the fence"
Bill
that should convince you!
Ford has done nothing but good for Jaguar...I seriously don't think the X-type is a case of the Cimmaron, for one reason - you're already starting with an excellent car as the basis.
Steve
On the downside, the hood was impossible for me to open and once I did, I found the engine compartment's refill fluids were poorly arranged. Lastly, the plastic grill that's attached to the hood felt very cheap. I can imagine that breaking without much effort.
Nice car, but my inability to access the engine compartment has X-ed it off my list.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Have you bought or shopped for a 3-Series BMW, C-Class Mercedes, Jaguar X-Type or other small sports sedan since Sept 11? If so, your comments are of great interest. Please get in touch with me via jfallon@edmunds.com.
You may also drop by the Smart Shopper discussion at this link to respond: prlady1 "Talk to the Press" Oct 8, 2001 1:48pmThanks as always,
Jonathan Welsh
The Wall Street Journal
The Westin Hotel down the street is having some sort of X-Type Fantasy Drive and has had a half dozen X-Types on display in front of the hotel. Anyone know anything about this promotion?
While I've considered the X-Type for my next car (Nov. 2002) I kind of lost interest. After seeing this display I'm very impressed. I fell in love with a racing green 2.5 with ivory trim. Thought I wanted a Sport Package, but I think without the chrome the car is too generic and less Jaguar-like.
A 2.5 automatic with a premium packeage would top out around $35000. I'm looking to lease and may have access to an x-plan. Wonder what kind of payment we're talking about. A year from now of course, there may be more deals on the car.