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As was said, the first thing I would do is find a dealer that did not charge any doc fee - or a much smaller one. With this dealership, they would have to sell you the car for well under invoice for you to have a good price.
Go elsewhere.
Dennis
I will try other dealers but I read a number of messages back that most if not all dealers in this area charge the same or similar "dealer" fee which really bites.
My wife and I stopped at a Hyundai dealership before going to see the Civic and they too charge a dealer fee BUT it all ends up being a wash as they were VERY willing to take huge slices out of their asking prices for their cars (the Elantra and Sonata).
I wish I didn't have to play these games ... I remember reading some messages from March - May (in these forums) where people report driving off the lot spending as little as $17,000 OTD.
I am new to this, but I am planning on buying a Honda Civic Ex w/navi sometime this week. I have been sent an internet quote of 19, 850. Is this a good price? Thanks!
My 22 yr. old daughter is about to buy her first car. She test drove the Mazda 3, Elantra, Civic and Civic Hybrid and has decided on the Civic 4 dr sedan A/T in either the LX or EX trim. We have gotten price quotes from over 15 dealerships in about a 100 mile radius of our Richmond,VA home. She is moving to Atlanta in two weeks to start her first job so we've also gotten price quotes from several dealerships in the Atlanta region.
Needless to say we've gotten a huge range in pricing. Knowing that both regions are offering the low financing, which helps her payments, the best prices she's gotten are:
LX - $17,345 OTD from Koon's Honda in Manassa, VA. This includes their "package" of mudflaps, door guards, mats, fender well trim and pin striping.
EX - $18,800 OTD from Hendrick Honda in Woodbridge, VA. This includes their "package" of mudflaps, door guards, mats, fender well trim and pin striping.
What does the forum think? Should we push a little lower. I would be thrilled (I think!) if we could get her OTD of $17,000 for the LX or $18,300 for the EX especially since we are coming to the end of the year. Any guidance would be appreciated. THANKS ALL!
Invoice w/ 5-spd Manual: $19,421
Invoice w/ Automatic: $20,155
I haven't seen what others have paid for their EX Sedans w/Navi - so your internet quote of $19,850 looks like it's not a bad deal or a couple hundred below invoice depending on transmission.
Even though Honda Financing is offering 2.9% and 4.9% APR you may want to consider the extra step of getting pre-approved from your bank. Pre-approval is nice because you can show up to the dealership with essentially a blank check and just pay the OTD price.
For example if you know you are pre-approved and have an interest rate of say 7% - when the dealership asks if you need financing, you can tell them, "sure give it a shot but only if it's lower than 7%." If they can beat your rate, great! If not, you are not at their mercy.
It protects you, too because the dealership is under no obligation to give you the best interest rate that you qualify for. You may very well qualify for the 4.9% APR but instead get 8% for example. Shady stuff.
LX - $17,345 OTD from Koon's Honda in Manassa, VA. This includes their "package" of mudflaps, door guards, mats, fender well trim and pin striping.
EX - $18,800 OTD from Hendrick Honda in Woodbridge, VA. This includes their "package" of mudflaps, door guards, mats, fender well trim and pin striping.
What does the forum think?"
Compared to what I have been given in Florida those are GREAT prices. I wish I could get them here in Orlando ...
Hyundai makes some nice products and you can get some smoking deals on them - but you literally have to drive the wheels off of them to get your money out of them. The resale value hurls compared to a Honda, so if you decide to trade or sell the car any time soon you will more than make up for your discount up front. Not a problem if you are going to keep it and drive it for years and years. In any case, your local Hyundai dealer can make you a smoking deal and still charge you the high doc fee, there are probably several off in the distance that will make the same deal with little or no doc fee.
Dennis
Check with the Internet department at Hennessy Honda in Woodstock, GA (just outside of Atlanta). They normally are lower than most any place I check. They DO have a high dealer fee, but the new of the car+fee should be nice.
If she is going to live in GA it might be a lot easier to title and tag the car there rather than VA then move it to GA. I would check with the GA DMV folks to see, but it might save you money to not have to transfer the car from state to state.
Dennis
LX (Koon's Honda, Manassas, VA)
Base Price $15,849
Freight $ 595
Dealer Fee $ 299
VA Tax (3.17%) $ 530.77
VA Tag/Title Fee $ 69.50
TOTAL $17,343.27
EX (Hendrick Honda, Woodbridge, VA)
Base Price $16,986
Freight $ 595
Dealer Fee $ 600
VA Tax (3.17%) $ 576.34
VA Tag/Title Fee $ 69.50
TOTAL $18,826.84
So what do you think? Good deal on either of these or should we try to push lower? We did contact Hennesey Honda in Woodstock, GA as well as several others and their pricing was definitely higher than what we have received from the VA dealers. Again, thanks so much!
Two things:
First, those "base prices" are very, very low. I am looking at a manual trans (reduce the AT price by $800 - $1,000). That would make a manual 4 Dr sedan (base) about $!5,000 which is unbelievably low. I would personally jump on either of these deals if available here in Orlando.
Second, I see where some of the cost differences are. Your sales tax is less than half (3.17% vice 7% for Fl). Your "Dealer fee" is half of mine ($300 vice $600) and your tag fee is lower too ($70 vice $250).
Of course, Virginia taxes tend to be much higher than Florida's (no state income tax) so they get you other ways but if you ask me I would buy either of these cars (my pref being the LX because you were quoted $1,600 less than I was).
Good luck!
""OTD" prices are pretty meaningless to me and anyone else who does not know your states sales tax and tag situation. State the prices to include the car, destination and any dealer fees - then we can decide if that is a good deal or not."
I agree BUT I have to deal with OTD prices. I am not financing and I want to know the bottom line. If I were to post an "OTD" price paid I would also be respectful enough to include allof the other fees AND my sales tax.
There are no known incentives on the Civic, but they do have regional 2.9% to 4.9% loan rates.
Invoice (w/dest) on the LX AT sedan is $16,944 and your price for the car+dest+fee = $16,743. Invoice on the EX w/dest is $18,549 and your price is $18,181.
If they will do those prices and let your daughter get the discounted loan rates (if she qualifies) then I would go get one of them. My daughter has an 06 EX sedan and she loves it, she felt the extra for the wheels, better stereo, 4 wheel disc brakes, audio controls, and moonroof was worth it. At $1,500 net on your prices, that would be what I would pick if I were you/your daughter as well.
Edit: I should have asked - are you sure they quoted you AT cars? They could have quoted you MT "by mistake" - that is a difference of $744 on the invoice and would make the prices posted make more "sense" - in that the dealer would make more than some of the holdback on the deal.
Dennis
When posting online, post the car+Dest+dealer fee since the rest is completely worthless to anyone that does not live in the same state/county/town that you do.
Dennis
I've gone back over all of my email communications with all the dealerships and all of the quotes have been on a civic 4dr sedan A/T with either EX or LX trim so I guess that means it's a fair comparison between all of the price quotes. One of the dealerships actually included the model code FA1657EW on the invoice they sent me. I tried to confirm that this would be the A/T but can't find the model codes listed on the Honda website or elsewhere.
Anymore thoughts?
Holdback on Honda is now 2% of MSRP - so about $400 on the EX and about $370 on the LX. If you take invoice less holdback you can see (barring hidden incentives) what the dealer paid for the car. Compare that to your price. Not a lot a fat on your prices at all
Anymore thoughts?
Go pick up your daughter's new car before they change their minds?
Dennis
Did I come across as being a moron? I'm sorry if I did. I have a number of degrees and can multiple the price of the car by the tax rate to calculate my sales tax.
I can also read the documents put before me to determine how much I am being charged for a new tag and for "dealer fees".
I can indeed take ANY price and calculate the OTD price. It is WHAT is a fair/good OTD price that I am asking.
What I (and many people here) need is a strategy to follow to get the best, fair deal we can. This strategy starts with (I assume) getting as many quotes (on-line) from area dealers and then negotiating with them.
Where did I come across as NOT being able to calculate an OTD price?
Just get the dealer to give the price for the car+dest+fee and then you can do the rest. Anyone that can't, needs to figure it out. Any dealer that will not give you a price break down or just what you ask for probably should be avoided anyway.
If I, you, or anyone else posts prices we should all do it on the common ground of car+dest+fee and leave all the "OTD" stuff off.
As was recently shown, someone in a high tax state is blown away by another person's OTD price - then later we see the OTD price includes a fraction of the taxes you and I might have to pay. So we wasted time and trouble before we found out that. My taxes here are high (7% on the sales price +plus $80 or so local tax) but the tags are pretty cheap ($79 or less per year, depending on the county). If you don't know that, me posting any OTD price make you think I may have paid too much.
No insult implied or intended, this is just a silly little forum where we all try to help each other get the best possible deal. AKA "Sticking it to the man"
Dennis
No insult taken, I just wanted to make sure that I was coming across the way I meant to. For reasons that are my own I will most likely be purchasing a new Civic the third week of August. I hope the end-of-year sales are in place by that time.
Sounds like we all should fly to VA and buy cars and drive them back home, however
Dennis
My research has shown that the Sonata GLS can be had for significantly lower than a Civic EX (or LX for that matter). My local Hyundai dealer (Orlando) was selling loss-leader Sonata GLSs for about $16,000 OTD. This is significantly less than a civic. In my area you can forget the Accord LX or Camry at that price-point. In those cases you are talking at least $2 - $3K more. After driving the Elantra, Sonata and the Civic my wife decided that the Civic is for us. It would have been so much easier to buy the Elantra or Sonata as they are giving steep discounts and their warranties are the best in the business (much better than Honda).
As for the Camry ... we went to a local dealer and got a bad case of sticker shock. You cannot get a mid-range Corolla for less than $17,000 (plus tax, tag and title) which pushes that price well into the Civic range. The Camry ... well let's just say that the price of even a low-end Camry is significantly above that.
Of the cars you mentioned the prices go as such (from personal experience):
Elantra < Sonata < Corolla < Civic < Accord < Camry
When my daughter got her Civic EX last year I pointed out to her that she could have purchased an I4 SE for about the same money or maybe less. I suspect now you could get the EX for EX-L for about what a Civic would cost you - most places. She was paying for it, so she got what she wanted
Dennis
car price(including destination fee): 16400
out of door price: 18000
I live in the bay area and a lot of the dealers around here can actually match this price.
I have the printout from the dealer with all the numbers on it (I've rounded them here for simplicity) and I'm trying to make sense of it all.
Orig MSRP $20,105
Base Invoice $18,550
Veh price $18,926
Sales Tax $634
DMV fee (incl doc, title, tire fees) $374.20
Dest. charge $595
Gross Cap $20,789
Net Cap $20,789
The vehicle price includes $260 of "soft adds" which are a trunk tray, wheel locks, and mud flaps. Do I even need these things? They can be taken off if I wish.
I think I am being charged $100 over invoice besides those soft adds. BUT I think the destination fee is being added in twice on me. I thought the destination fee is included in the invoice price they quote of $18550. The true factory invoice to them I have seen online as $17955 for an automatic. Add $595 to that makes the $18550. However another $595 destination fee is included here in my complete cost. Am I wrong?
This is my first time making a deal on a car on my own. What do you all think? Good deal? (I'm in NJ with 7% sales tax)
Thank you so much for your help!
In any case, your numbers don't add up - if you take your price + tax + DMV you still end up wrong. I bet they have a $259.80 "doc" fee that is not shown - so your price is really $359.80 over invoice plus add-ons. And yes, they put the destination fee in twice "by mistake" .
Dennis
The doc fee is $125 which I included in the DMV fees I listed ($374.20) total.
Thank you for your response Dennis! DOes this help clarify? Do I need these three things listed under soft adds?
Michelle
No matter what, the numbers you posted do not add up since it does appear that they added the destination charge twice.
Get that squared away, decide on the 3 items, then either get them to throw them in for free, bargain down the price, take them for their price, or have them remove them. Then it sounds like a nice deal.
Dennis
As for the trunk tray, there's no way I'd get it. It's ugly and unwieldy if you ever have to get at the spare tire or have to pop the 60/40 seats down to haul skis or something like that. I just got a roll of clear plastic designed to protect minivan carpets (flat on top, little plastic studs on the bottom to hold it in place) from Wal-Mart and cut it to shape. That way the trunk has some protection, but it doesn't look stupid or keep you from actually getting at stuff in your car.
What fees did you pay and what is your sale tax rate? I'm trying to work back to your price of $16,400. BTW the price you paid is $800 less than what I was quoted.
Have anyone got lower price.
What price did they give you? I will e-mail them and tell them folks are complaining
Invoice is $16,944 plus 7% tax = $18,130.08. So if someone quoted you $18,030 out the door you might as well quit looking and go get that deal.
Dennis
Their OTD price is $18,282.29
Thank you, Dennis. But I really hope I can get $17,500 OTD
I'm also looking for an LX sedan in the Bay area. Would you mind disclosing which dealer you went to?
Thanks!
Which county do you live in the Bay Area?
Thanks
Invoice is $16,944 plus 7% tax = $18,130.08
To get $17,500 OTD (with just tax, no lemon fee, tags, etc) would mean the car would be $16,355. There is 2% holdback based on the MSRP so $18,355 x 0.02 = $367.10. Invoice less 100% of holdback would be $16,576.90.
So you are asking the dealer to sell you the car for invoice less 100% of holdback and then to lose $221.90 on the deal AND they pay for your tags, doc fee, title, lemon law fee, etc.
I don't think so.
Dennis
Thank your again, Dennis.
Dennis
Thank you very much.
Yaping
Dennis
Also, if you are concerned about color choices (as I am), go to each dealer website and see their inventory. Most of my local dealers have only black and silver in a manual 5-speed LX sedan. If you choose the 2-door coupe (manual) they have a MUCH bigger selection. My wife likes the coupe but I am trying to convince her to get the sedan (it's more practical).
Pingyawang, I have negotiated numerous car purchases and can tell you that there are two (2) classes of sellers" Honda and then everyone else. They have little problem selling their cars and it shows during negotiations. Go to a Nissan or Hyundai dealership and they will cut you a FANTASTIC deal without having to open your mouth. Not at a Honda dealer. For the most part they have a "take it or leave it" attitude.
I love their cars ... but not how they deal with prospective buyers.
You are right, that is just the attitude I met yesterday. It is totally different from other dealers. I test drived both Civic and Corolla. The model of Corolla is too old. Toyota has ungraded it in other places of the world. I don't know why they still insist on selling the old one in the US. So, I can only love Civic now. ^_^
Thank you again, Dud (Dude) :P .
I agree about the Corolla. I visited a Toyota dealer last weekend and the price on a Corolla LE was MORE than a Civic LX! It was an incredibly high price for a dated econo-box.
BTW, I live onthe east coast so my time is +3 hours. I left that message at 8:15 in the morning, not 5:15.
Good luck ...
I found this to have been true in 2003 and 2004, when the Corolla was considered.
I am 2 weeks from the lease end of my last Civic. I've completed the end of lease inspection and have to take care of a scratched windsheild and a ding or pay when I turn it in.
My dealer has an offer on the table for me (see above) but I don't want to pay for the extra wear and tear. He has offered to buy my lease from Honda and use it as a trade in. How much should this affect the deal he already offered on my new car?
I've already paid my last payment on this car as well. If I turn it in two weeks early should I expect to get half of that back somehow in my new car deal or let it go?
Thank you again for all the advice and help!!!
Michelle
Heck, I priced a Yaris out for someone - starts at $12k or something, right? I don't think you even get a RADIO at that price. Give me a break. They could make more money and satisfy more customers if they would just limit the choices and include all the safety stuff on every car - like they do with Scion.
Fine cars, bad way (to me) to make and sell them.
Dennis
Honda leases have a lot of "boo boo forgiveness" built into them. Your old car must either be pretty bad or not leased through Honda Finance? How much are they asking you to pay?
If you turn in early you get nothing back at this point, but I would wait and do the deal the day the current offers run out (maybe July 5?). If the current Civic leases are nothing special, you might try to wait until the last day of your lease - but why bother?
Dennis
We needed a vehicle for the daily plain jane commute with 95% of the mileage and 5/7 days (71%) with one person in the car. A small example in the 2004 Civic, they had a VP model. This model came under the LX model. If I remember correctly, there was a $1,200. jump in price for the LX model (power door locks, cruise control, and I am sure some other (non essential) things). While I do like power door locks and cruise control,etc., we don't use power door locks much with one person and for sure, do not use cruise control in a daily grueling commute. Hidden benefits would be no repair of cruise control and power door locks. So not only do we save the money, interest and taxes and for most folks 36-60 mo more of HIGHER payments, but $1,200 buys a lot of commute gas @$3.17 per gal * 40 mpg= 15,142 miles!