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Honda Accord Quality Control Issues
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Comments
Some facts:
I haven't knocked the Accord.
It took one post for a Honda owner to say something derogatory concerning Fords and American Iron. A flaming statement that they all rust!
I discontinued my subscription to CR. However AOl carries some of their info. CR states rust is no longer a problem. This took place somewhere in the early 90s. This has been my experience with two 90s model Fords.
Edmunds rates 97 Taurus higher in 4 of 5 catergories when compared to Accord. The biggest advantage for the Taurus is Value. Believe that has been one of my points.I don't think the Accord is worth the extra cash, especially used. Honda owners get real indignent when that is mentioned. Hey, I mentioned a fact. I really don't care what CR states because they never get into the cost difference and they rarely state the cost of ownership.
Bottom line was if a Honda was cheaper than a Taurus and everything else was equal I'd probably own one of them verse a Taurus.
I notice in the post about complaints that a Taurus/Sable is not mentioned.I notice more complaints for the Odyssey verse the Windstar. And I believe the Windstar sells more units. Could be wrong there; so percentage wise the Odyssey has a lot of unhappy owners.
One more point. When you do a new car comparision in Edmunds and match the Taurus to the Accord they are classified as follows -
Accord - Full Size
Taurus - Premium
What is up with that.
I see the same thing with CR. If a Toyota and Honda are tested along with three other makes guess which model will come out on top? Why buy the magizine?
Look at past issues of CR. New models for Honda and Toyota get a recommended buy. If it is new GM or Ford they'll say something like - can't recommend, new model.
Now watch the new Camry get recommended. And to boot it has a brand new base engine in which CR has no data. Why aren't they consistent? I call that bias.
Remember once how they raved about the Neon and what a great car it was. Thought the reviewer was on "crack" or some other type of mind altering drug.
On new first year models, Consumer Reports has been listing "Promising" with an upward arrow. I have yet to see the Recommended label next to a new model. They did this when the Ford Focus came out which they rated highly.
Maybe if Ford would build a better Taurus, maybe Consumer Reports would give it glowing reviews. Ford Taurus once was one of the top 2 selling cars in America but consumers found out that their were better alternatives such as the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. Maybe that is why they are the two top selling passenger cars in North America! Car buyers found a better product and bought it.
Ford got on track recently after it desolved its tire agreement with Firestone. It was a black mark for both manufacturers.
There you go pal---I await your reply.
Regarding quality, though, they are in different classes. I realize that people can get lemons in any brand, but MY experience has been that I had absolutely NO quality problems with my CRX and the only reason I have had to return my Accord to the dealer was the fuel gauge problem.
The Fords were a different situation. With all three, there were numerous mild to serious problems early in their lives. My Windstar left me and my family stranded on an interstate at 2,000 miles (bad fuel injectors), and then required several more trips back to the dealer for serious problems (front suspension, head gasket, some hood problem). The Tauruses were better, but still suffered from quality problems.
Is Honda perfect? No. I'm disappointed with the paint quality, too, but I hear that same complaint from owners of other brands. I blame it on EPA rules (I may be wrong).
Update ----So far, my new V-6 replacement transmission has been flawless to date.
Ford back in the 1970's went to a water based standard before the EPA was even around. That is why you see a lot of Fords produced in the 1970's, 1980's and early 1990's with peeling paint. Ford's reason at that time was to save money in production costs.
Fords have always had a rust problem in areas where rock salt is used on the highways. They use only a one step galvanization process. Most auto manufacturers galvanize their autos in a two step process.
Test drove a LX V-6 sedan as well as an EX V-6 sedan. One thing that did bother me was the hesitation when the transmission is changing gears for 40 to 50 mph range. It wasn't smooth in either car. My 1994 EX when shifting is a lot smoother to the point that it isn't noticeable. The new Accords I drove had me contemplating another test drive at a different dealership.
The features were nice and the EX V-6 had a leather interior. Both cars were more quiet than my 1994 but not by much.
After reading the various posts over the past half hour here, I noticed there were a lot of topics posted regarding the failure rate of V-6 transmissions. There must be some validity to the posts.
My question is, should I consider another car such as the Pontiac Bonneville or Toyota Camry? I want a V-6 that will be as trouble free as my 1994 EX.
'93 Accord SE ~107K smooth & reliable miles
Yep, they do need to be replaced at 105,000 miles!
Big deal!
I would much rather pay to replace a timing belt than to replace broken motor mounts, head gaskets and transmissions at 70K!
Couldn't resist...sorry.
Ed-test drive another V-6 Accord before you consider another vehicle. I wouldn't consider the Bonneville at all.
Andre, I think it's around a 400.00 job for just the t-belt. It is smart to replace the water pump, front seal and drive belts while they are "in there" anyway. Just preventive maintence.
Had a customer in last week with his 94 Accord. It had 220,000 miles on it. Looked and ran like a 40K car. Original timing belt!!
After a discussion with me he made an appointment to get it changed this week!
Besides, even nowadays it seems like cars with chains have an interval of about the same, 105K miles.
Compared to the Accord V-6, there was no comparison in regards to the insulation from road noise. The new Altima is real quiet to the point that it reminds me of a Lexus. 17 inch tires on the top of the line model I drove which had Continental Touring tires---the same that they put on the BMW.
I think Honda and Toyota have some serious competition on their hands with the new Altima.
Nissan reliability has been good but is not in the same league as Honda or Toyota.
Ed: I would wait at least two years so Nissan can work out all the bugs. The car looks nice but it is unproven. The 180 hp 4 cylinder would be enough for me as compared to the 240 hp 6 cylinder.
In December, the new Altima V-6 probably will be had for $200.00 over cost. (Of course Nissan dealers will make another $500.00 in hold back).
You might even get 2.9% or 3.9% financing from Nissan as our economy is in the midst of a recession.
I personally feel the Nissan Altima is a nice looking car but wait until the jury is on how reliable the vehicle will be over time.
Unless something changes, these things depreciate almost as fast as a domestic.
If the new Altima depreciates fast, you probably be able to get up in a year for around 14K!
The Altima looks nice but how will it hold up in the long haul? It will not be as reliable as the Honda Accord in my estimation based on previous model years.
Does Honda plan having an Accord SE every two years now?
Remember Nissan's MSRPs always are a bit higher. They have much more wiggle room than Honda and Toyota.
I would say the quality of Japanese built Accords is far superior to the US built Accord. The big difference is in the paint and the fit and finish. I talked to the salesman that sold me my Accord and he stated they have more requests for Japanese built Accords when customers come in to the dealership to buy.
The new 2003 Accord is suppose to be the best designed Accord to date. Guess I will have to wait and see like everyone else.
In the six years I've sold Hondas I have never been able to detect any differences between U.S. built and Japanese built cars.
Once in a blue moon, I'll get a customer looking for a Japan built car.
lugwrench,
There is no set schedule as to when Honda will produce a special edition Accord.
They could skip five years or do two years in a row I guess.
It is a job for the American worker but a way of life for the Japanese worker.
All I'm saying is this...I have never been able to find the slightest difference in quality between Japan and US Accords.
Is there a difference? Perhaps, but not one I can see.
A placebo effect perhaps?
'93 Accord SE 108K and still running smoothly as ever, 'cept for the bad main relay !
But someone who has been selling them for 6 years is going to know them inside and out, probably more than the typical car owner. Sure, some American-built ones will be sloppy, and so will some Japanese-built ones. But does anybody have any hard, solid evidence that proves the Ohio models are inferior to Japan? Saying that Mary's Ohio engine blew up and Billy's Japanese one didn't doesn't prove much...maybe Mary ran it without coolant or never changed the oil?
Besides, from reading what Isell has posted on these boards, he's been affiliated with cars for a long, long time. Heck, anybody who can relate to an undersized ball joint on a '67 Pontiac or what a pain a Hemi oil filter is HAS to be on the level!
The salesman does just that, sell the Accord to the consumer. When commission is involved, a few car salesman have been known to fib to complete the sale. Sorry, isell, I wasn't implying you!
The salesman isn't going to let the customer know of any impending service bulletins or recalls on the model. The salesman is knowledgeable of all the features but I don't believe they go around the car and view fit and finish before the sale.
Don't get me wrong, I love Hondas and I like to be the judge of an automobile without the hard sell.
"But someone who has been selling them for 6 years is going to know them inside and out, probably more than the typical car owner."
Absolutely false. Salesman are salesman, their knowledge does not extend beyond the aesthetic/tangible features/content of cars and some don't even reach that far, but that's another whole argument altogether. Unless they are Honda owners themselves, salesman wouldn't know any reliability nor fit/finish issues of the cars they've sold unless relayed/told to them from their customers (Honda owners). Otherwise, if s/he tells you about fit/finish/reliability of the cars they're selling; it would be consider 2nd hand knowledge (or heresay). Without those "typical car owners", we would just let the car manufacturers tell us how reliable their cars are and have those salesman take us to the cleaners also. If one's livelihood [sic] was dependent on selling cars, would one cast bad light on the product s/he selling? Certainly not. Hence, it is just more logical to give more credence to the "typical car owner" in this case.
I will start from the bottom up. Exhaust, engine,
paint, fit and finish, and tires etc. I will look for surface scratches and swirls. I normally check the interior for flaws and loose stitching.
In short, I will go over the car with a "magnifying glass" if I have to before making the deal.
It is me that is going to be making car payments for 3 to 4 years and I don't want any problems at the time of purchase. The salesman gets his commission and is lucky to remember your name when you come in for your first service appointment. Sure there are salesman that will remember a name or two but most of the time, they will forget.
If you look real hard, you will be able to see the difference between US and Japanese built Accords if you take the time.
At my Honda dealership, they have such a turnover of salesman and general managers, you are lucky if the service advisor remembers you.
A customer can read up on the model that they would like to purchase then go to the dealership.
Those constant walks between the salesman and the sales manager always bother me. One time I told a salesman, let me talk to the sales manager cause I am getting tired sitting here watching you walk back and forth.
Some salesman know their stuff and others don't. The ones that don't are usually not around that long.
The car was in the shop more than the kid was in class.
I have had my disagreements with isellhondas but I personally feel that he is a good salesman. If you want to see a bad salesman, he is the guy that tries to sell you the environmental package for $1500.00 extra. You know, a little wax and some undercoating. Costs the dealership maybe a whole $20.00 product and labor.
You forget one thing....I don't care!
I'm not here to sell cars or drum up business.
Never once have I tried to do this and I've been around these forums for a long time.
I'll repeat what I said and could care less what you happen to think...
I, personally have never been able to spot any differences in quality between US and Japan built Hondas.
I'm not saying there might be some differences...It's just that these differences, if any have been undectable to me.
And I do resent the posters who automatically assume I will say anything in order to sell a car.
I have taken close looks and can't tell the difference. I've seen flaws in both.
If after 10+ years the UAW still isn't in the Honda facility, I would venture to guess it would be an uphill battle for them to do so.
IMHO, approval of UAW representation will not automatically lead to lower quality. I'm no fan of unions so don't take this that way. Honda has certain quality standards and those standards would have to be agreed to be met by the union. I don't think Honda would lower quality standards just because the UAW thinks they are too high. Remember, it's Honda's ball and they can take it and go home (or Mexico, Canada, England, Germany, Korea) if they want to.
Honda's presence in Ohio generates millions, if not hundreds of millions, of dollars in economic impact throughout that area. IMHO, Honda would work very hard to remind everyone, including their employees and the employees of the sandwich shops, grocery stores, and other small businesses in the area, the value of Honda to their economy. As someone once remarked to me WRT Kodak in Rochester, NY - "It's the big yellow mother and if Mom gets sick, the whole family gets sick".
To isellhondas---I wasn't implying anything toward you as a salesman. I was just illustrating my own personal observations.
Japanese vs. American---it would be interesting to see an actual quality assurance readout from both Accord plants. It would be interesting to see who has the higher quality assurance standards.