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Having said all of that, I think you need to move on with your life. You don't need to protect the rest of the world against that evil company named Honda. I learned how to change the oil on my Dad's cars about 30 years ago and the first step after finishing the job is to start up the vehicle and get back down underneath to check for oil leaks. I learned that then and have taught my own 10 year old the same procedure. If you don't check for leaks you are only inviting disaster. A proven method then and still effective to this day.
Could the CRV design be improved? Probably. I don't think, however the placement of the CRV's oil filter is that much different than any other vehicle's. I've owned 12 new vehicles over the past 20 years and several more motorcycles and I have changed the oil myself on every one of them. Companies continue to put oil filters in very inconvenient places and every one of them will spew oil under high pressure onto very hot surfaces if they are leaking and you continue to run the motor. The brands I owned include Honda, Mazda, Ford, Toyota, Audi, Jeep and Dodge, and I can say that none of those manufacturers has a monopoly on poor placement of an oil filter. The person who does the oil change needs to do the job correctly or bad things will happen. The old saying of if you want the job done right do it yourself may apply here.
Honda doesn't own the dealership, and you would think that the dealer would employ properly trained techs to do a simple job like an oil change. That doesn't mean that mistakes will never happen. Honda is not some evil empire, its just a bunch of people making cars to sell to the public in order to make a fair profit. There are inherent dangers in using those products that you must accept when you drive them. I feel that your efforts should be focused on the techs and the dealer, and to expect an apology and/or reparations from Honda is above and beyond. (well, maybe not an apology, but again, it wasn't their fault and it certainly wasn't on purpose).
Just because the media (with your help, no doubt) has latched on to this story doesn't mean that CRVs are catching fire at a higher rate than any other vehicle, it just means that the media has found a story to sell newspapers or advertising time and boost their ratings. (that doesn't mean that they aren't catching fire at a higher rate either, I'm just saying that to place that much faith in the media's motivations is naive).
In any case, again, I am sorry for your unfortunate experience and I am glad you weren't hurt. But please move on with your life and good luck in your lawsuit, maybe you can make enough to move on and not pepper the board with your story any more.
Thanks for sharing your story with the board, but we've got it.
That's a problem. While I haven't always agreed with what you've posted, I'd prefer that you continue to post, especially those things that I disagree with. A dissenting view is important.
JM2C
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I too, feel bad that sabrina had to go through that and I'm thankful nobody was hurt. My wife drives a 2003 CRV and it could have happened to her if the oil changer had been careless.
But, life does or should go on. Yes, I hate the publicity and constant reminders that sabrina provides but I also think maybe it's time to focus on more productive things.
tcasboy, thank you for expressing my exact feelings much better than I could have.
Seems like a very nice person who went through a scary situation.
Just time to move on to other things, I would think?
Oh, you know I love you all but, c'mon look in the mirror.
Elissa
rockycow33
My last post was something like 10 days ago. I wasn't going to post again - no point in it, really. So please, the rest of you, feel free to move on. I'll continue to read - every once in a while, there's something good.
Go back and look at what post I replied "I'll second that." to.
-Mike
Lets be honest, none this is good for Honda sales, dealers, service etc. Instead of living in denial, if I worked for Honda I'd be on the phone every day urging them to do something to end this nonsense---not posting how it's an unresolved issue or a technicians fault. If it's still an unknown probelm then I'd put a TSB stating to be OVERLY cautious when servicing these vehicles.
Bottom line, blaming the techs, no matter how many times you do it will not hold water so long as we are only seeing one brand with one model affected.
It would be nice to see this forum return to other problems. I'd like to say these messages should be put in a special HONDA FIRES forum but I'd bet many folks would not want the issue singled out. Plus, I think Edmunds had such a forum removed (Toyota sludge) after some time. (As if the issue ever really goes away for those cars affected).
Oh by the way. I still say controlling peception is everything.
I also agree with varmint's idea.
No need to beat a dead horse.
When I drive my husband's CR-V I find that the brake pedal is situated too high off of the floor, relative to the gas pedal. I find it uncomfortable to switch between the two because I have to lift my leg up to reach the brake pedal. Does anyone know if there is an adjustment that can be made so that I can lower the orientation of the brake pedal? My husband would just have to deal with the new height :-)
Thanks,
elissa
I do remember someone posting about having the pedal height adjusted. Did you do a search here on all the CR-V boards? It may be under a different category.
As for "beating a dead horse", to some the "horse" is very much alive and needs some serious attention. Denying their concerns are valid or of no consequence doesn't help resolve their situation.
Re: Toyota sludge topic - It's not hidden away. Anyone wishing to review those discussions can do so. Use the Search by Keyword (enter "Toyota Sludge") to find them.
That's all I'm going to say within the topic. If you have any questions/comments, please address them to me in an email.
Until some new "news" becomes available it is hard to believe anything else could be said about the topic that wouldn't be re-hash.
I will leave it at that.
Of course I am considered very anal about my car's appearance. You got to to do what you got to do!
Anything she wants to say. That's the point.
Until some new "news" becomes available it is hard to believe anything else could be said about the topic that wouldn't be re-hash.
I'm sure you can't find anything new, but other people might. Let them post what they want. If you don't like it, skip to the next post.
You would think of all people Honda techs would know about this issue.
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rockycow
You owned a 2004 and didn't have the same problem.
Hopefully they will be able to quickly solve this for you.
[quote]Also, they were supposed to be contacting Jiffy Lubes, Grease Monkeys, and other retailers. I doubt they receive dealer newsletters. [/quote]
I can just see it now. "Dear Jiffy Lube. When you change an oil filter, be sure to check for a gasket left behind. Thanks, Honda"
And don't forget to look both ways before crossing the road. LOL
They do stick sometimes, though, and the techs should know to look for the gasket if it doesn't come off with the filter, I think.
I hear plenty of stories about people getting "double gasketed" though, without fires, probably due to the leaking oil being blown into hot components when driving.
Possibly in an effort to cut every rising costs, Honda may have put increased timing requirments on "entry" level technicians to reduce time spent on each on oil change. Oil change technicians have fast become the inexperienced 16-year-old at the service department who would not otherwise qualify for other service related work.
I would agree with most that technicians should be taking care to ensure a job is done well and efficiently. However, their managers are ultimately the persons who define the work ethic and should be responsible for inspecting work. But what happens if the filter is faulty, fails or otherwise becomes punctured or leaks?
A designer that places a main oil outlet above an exhaust manifold (an outlet that sees frequent activity) should not be excusued. Careful oil changes will be required on these models for the life of the car and it only takes one person to forget procedure.
Concerned CR-V potential owner,
jp
But why haven't there been problems with the 2002 model, which is identical to the 2003-2004 models? In other words, what changed between 2002 and 2003?
Possibly in an effort to cut every rising costs, Honda may have put increased timing requirments on "entry" level technicians to reduce time spent on each on oil change.
You're confusing Honda the car manufacturer and Honda dealers. While individual dealerships may (and probably do) put pressure on their employees to work faster, be more productive, and generate more revenue (what company doesn't put some pressure on their employees?), Honda the car manufacturer isn't responsible for that.
A designer that places a main oil outlet above an exhaust manifold (an outlet that sees frequent activity) should not be excusued.
In a perfect world I would agree with your statement. But the design process is a balance between utility and function, and often (always?) includes compromises.
JM2C
- As I speculated, most likely 2002 owners, when compared to 2003-04 owners are less inclined to take their vehicles to the dealer. If the belt tightening occurred in the the 2004 model year, that would put the majority of 2002's at Jiffy/Econo/Tune_and_Lube. The fact that the issue was somewhat limited to dealer changes emphasizes that a service procedure change at Honda dealers was made. Also, as this was/is a national problem, and not any one dealer, points to a parent organization. Either that or it's just all one big coincidence.
In a perfect world I would agree with your statement. But the design process is a balance between utility and function, and often (always?) includes compromises.
- I suppose. Having worked for/at several Japanese based companies, I've found that Japanese engineers value 3 things: Innovation, quality and withholding opinions that would save face over overriding a more senior engineer's decision.
As I said it was just a theory. Hopefully I'm not writing the Pelican Brief here...heh.
<<As I speculated, most likely 2002 owners, when compared to 2003-04 owners are less inclined to take their vehicles to the dealer>>
What the heck makes you think that?
<<The fact that the issue was somewhat limited to dealer changes emphasizes that a service procedure change at Honda dealers was made. Also, as this was/is a national problem, and not any one dealer, points to a parent organization>>
Most Honda dealers, if not all of them, give a free first oil change. Since the reported fires are after the first oil change, that's why most of the fires occurred after a dealer did the work.
You replied: As I speculated, most likely 2002 owners, when compared to 2003-04 owners are less inclined to take their vehicles to the dealer.
Ah. Speculation, the close relative to rumor and wild gueses. What happened at a national level that suddenly owners of new 2002 CR-Vs stopped taking their CR-Vs to dealers for their first oil change? And what happened, again at a national level, that new owners of 2003 CR-Vs took their CR-Vs to the dealers for their first oil changes?
I grew up in S. California, currently live in the midwest, and spent 4 years living in NY. I can tell you from my own experience that this great nation of ours is not a single, homogenous mass of humanity. Each region has their own attitudes, opinions, and habits. And making such a blanket statement about owners of one year model vs another is wild speculation.
My point? You have no idea what actually has caused 2003 & 2004 CR-Vs to have a problem and 2002 CR-Vs not to have the same problem. All you're doing is guessing, and it's not even an informed guess.
JM2C
If there is more of a problem with '03-'04 than '02s (open to debate, since the number is relatively small), then the most likely answer is that something changed... Since we know the design of the model years is virtually identical, then it points to the filter area.
It could be (wild speculation alert):
1) Different filter source
2) Different gasket used in assembly
3) Different oil used to lube gasket before installation.
4) Some kind of different coating/paint on engine where filter attaches (I SAID: wild speculation)
Any of those impossibly weak explanations would account for why the gaskets stick after the first oil change, but subsequently have no problems. Ever have weatherstripping stick after you re-paint your front door?
Okay, back to rational rantings now...
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Everybody see the flaw in that assumption?
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As an interesting note, the NHTSA does have a 2002 report of oil leaking from the filter onto the exhaust, although it apparently didn't cause a fire. It's ODI # 10080892. So it sounds like varmint may be correct.
The problem I had with ebbgreatdane's posts is he first speculated that Honda forced the dealers to have their techs change the oil faster. A unsupportable statement, since the dealers are independent businesses. His rebuttal was that owners of 2002 CR-Vs decided not to have their first oil changes done at Honda dealers. Again, an unsupportable statement. He's making wild guesses that confuse the issue without contributing to the discussion, IMO.
Your guesses are at least reasonable; something changed with the filter or the process used in the engine assembly.
JM2C
You know it is funny, I've been taking all my Hondas to a local dealership for service, since I bought my '98 CRV from them.. Four different Hondas, even though the '98 was the only one purchased there. The only Honda I still have is an '02 CR-V EX. When all this came up, I was thinking that I was glad that I had a dealer I trusted.
So, In May, about two weeks after going in for my 30K service, I got new tires and was having some vibration problems.. Had so much trouble, I started considering other causes than just the new tires.. Popped my hood, and the windshield washer container cap was off.. no big deal.. The next day, stopped at the dealer to talk to the service guy.. It was closing time, but he takes it back, makes sure all the tire pressures are the same, etc.. Comes back, and says the air intake pipe between the engine and air filter had never been hooked back up.. Said that could cause a little engine vibration, due to the lack of vacuum.
So, it looks like they closed up my hood before they finished hooking everything back up... I'm kind of a "stick the key in and drive" guy, but keep all the maintenance up to date. This was sort of a wake-up call.
regards,
kyfdx
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I had a oil change retailer forget to replace the oil-filler cap on my CR-V. Oil got splattered all over the engine compartment (could easily have started a fire). Luckily, I could smell it. I replaced the cap, mopped up the spill, and let them know about their mistake.
I, like theracoon, really like my dealer and trust them... That is what really surprised me.
regards,
kyfdx
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Any help would be appreciated before I start taking my door apart. I do have a shop manual but nothing else.