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I went out and spent some time on the shift. It shifted fine and here is what I found. When you shift from P-D, you pull the shifter towrds you to unlock it. Also when you go from D to 1 or 2. But when you go UP from 1-2 or 2-D, you don't pull the dhifter towrds you, you sort of push it to the right a little. The gear is a little jagged, more like a the way a standard works. After I spent some time with it, it runs smoothly. I even tried it on the fly
I had never used 2 or 1 before, so when it happened I was perplexed and did not have time to figure it out. I was driving and reached for the radio at the exact time I hit a bump and my hand hit the shift and put it into 2. I tried to pull the shifter towards me (like from D-P), but couldn't do it and pulled over for 20 minutes before I did the key thing. Seems simple now...
Maybe some of the experts could verify it or eplain it better but it seems to work fine. The owners manual does not say this I don't think.
Is this the first time you shifted to 2? What tiped me off is it was going from 2-1 and 1-2 easily, just couldn't get it to D and I could get it INTO 2 easily just not out of it.
Thanks for responding sabrina. I think, I should say hope, we have it figured out. we picked it up from Honda tonight and they say it's fine. When I tried it it still seemed weird, now I couldn't get it INTO 2nd! My wife got in it and played with it and it worked ok for her, she did what you did, maybe us guys are too rough with it or something. I'm going to monitor it as you are doing and keep my fingers crossed. Thanks, John
Oh sorry, I didn't answer your question, no this isn't the 1st time I shifted into 2nd. This very same thing happened to us a while back but when I turned off the key I was able to get it back to P to restart. I figured then it was just a fluke and really forgot about it. Why do the dealers always act like your the only one on the planet with this "weired problem". But when you ask around other people have experienced it. We'll just keep an eye on it I guess.
What was funny was that it had just hapened to me....But it was the first time I shifted into low gear. Anyways, i tried it again today and it seems that once I figured it out it works fine.
First problem was the clicking breaks. Brought it to dealer and they said they needed oiling???
Second problem and I really would like an answer to this one - my husband changed oil at only 5,600 miles instead of the recommended 10,000. Will that hurt the SUV.
And lastly, living in Chicago, we had a good snowstorm last week. I decided to try out the ABS brakes. Driving about 25-30 miles an hour on deserted, snow-covered street, applied brakes. I did not pump the brakes. There was loud, and I mean table pounding thumps, coming from maybe the front of the vehicle. And my foot that applied the brake felt those thumps. I know you are supposed to feel something, but the noise was loud. Is this a problem? Thanks for all your help.
1) Maybe the calipers need oiling? Thats the mechanism that provides the clamping pressure on the brake disc.
2)I stay with 10,000 mile service interval, but change my oil every 5000. You can't hurt it by changing more often, though I'm not positive its necessary. (I still do it, though).
3)I think the normal ABS action on CRVs is pretty violent.. It is different from some other cars. However, I think its normal for the CRV and the system is working properly.
That's the way it works. You push the pedal down and it quickly "pumps" the brakes so you keep going straight. NEVER PUMP THE BRAKES YOURSELF WITH ABS. (I know you said you didn't but, you thought about it.)
Wife has 2003 CR-V EX which I seldom drive. After driving or riding I get static electric jolt closing the door. Does not happen to wife. Does not happen with other vehicles. Any one else have this problem or know of a solution.
You probably live somewhere, where air is very dry (Arizona?). Try to spray an 'anti-static guard' on your seat. This would make it more 'conductive' and discharge quicker. There are two ways that you can get that electric/static jolt: 1. Sitting on your seat you 'rub' your pants against your seat (say seat is synthetic and pants made of wool) and when you got out, on a dry day, you got a jolt. 2. Car is getting charged by ambient electric aerosols, dust, etc. while you drive it (you scoop the charge). If air is dry this charge would not go to the ground quickly, and when you got out you got a jolt.
Johnny B, What did Honda do? anything? This has happened to my wife several times (she shifts down for driving in snow), and she has really been scared. How do you do the release? Usually I have to get to wherevever she is and then I have just "lucked into" the right combo to shift out. Any others out there or hints?
This isn't rocket science. It got me once but as member sabrina described, when downshifting most vehicles with an automatic tranny, you pull the shift toward you and down. You would think upshifting (or going to PARK) would be "toward you and up" but it's not. Simply slide the lever up WITHOUT pulling in.
First..practice the shifting while you are in your driveway with the foot on the brake.. Don't wait till you get out on the road.. Second, look at the left/right position of the shift lever in each gear. Its all the way to the right in Drive, a little farther left in Second, and in the center in First.. This will give you an idea of the motion of the shifter when shifting.
"This has happened to my wife several times (she shifts down for driving in snow), and she has really been scared."
If she's doing what I think she is doing, tell her to stop.
When driving in slippery conditions, you want to use as little power as possible. Downshifting will rev the engine higher and put more torque to the wheels. With more torque, there is a greater change of breaking traction during acceleration.
She should do the opposite during snowy weather. With a manual you should find the highest gear that will keep you moving forward. With an automatic, leave it in overdrive.
Well, I never really got used to the Odyssey for shifting to anything except from Park into Drive and back. Trying to get the thing into a lower gear was always dicey. I didn't try and do it while moving. I owned an Odyssey for 3 years; the shifter is a useable but poor design that requires the operator to "feel" for the right position.
This was one of the few things I didn't like in an otherwise outstanding minivan.
Purchased a 2004 CRV in October. Steering wheel and front end shook over 55 mph. Service dept lowered tire pressure to 26 mph and balanced tires. Improved vibration but didn't end it. Steering wheel vibrates like a power drill. Service dept said that's the way the vehicle is designed to feel. Nothing more they can do. Called Honda's toll free number in November. Told 3-5 days someone would contact me. Took one month to talk to someone, after leaving many voice mails, only because I called and the guy answered the phone. He said dealer said vehicle was fine but he would make an appt with another dealer to look at it. That, too, was a month ago. Still no return phone call. Don't hold out much hope that Honda's service center will serve me. Can't imagine Honda designed this vehicle to shake. Sure different than the professional reviews that said CRVs have a car-like ride. Nothing farther from the truth. Has anyone found relief in changing out the Bridgestone tires?
The garage door didn't go up 100%. My husband hit the bottom of the door with my cute red CRV. Now, the rear washer spray head is broken. I don't see the tube ... just a hole there now. Is there anyway to change the rear washer spray head easily?
Or we have to bring the car to dealer to fix? I cannot find the part on web. I guess I have to go to the dealer to get the part.
bencal, I know exactly what you talked about. I've experienced the same problem with my 02' CRV. At first I thought it was the issue with wheels/tire, so I put in new set. That didn't solve the problem.
Bridgestone tires didn't cause the vibration in my case. But they're loud and have uncomfortable ride. I tried the following tires: 1. Yokohama Avid Touriong - very quiet ride & good control 2. BF Goodrich Precept Touring - very quiet ride & average control 3. Michelin Destiny - quiet ride & very good control
They are all much better than the Bridgstone tires. I chose Michelin's because I like the "control" feel of them.
I just bought a 2004 LX. Owner's manual says that if you turn the key to the right in the driver's side door and hold it, all four doors should open. Doesn't seem to work on my CRV. Any recourse for me or do I have to suffer opening the driver's door and pressing the door lock button?
don't let your dealer confuse vibration at speed with vibration at idle. The 2.4L engine does transmit some vibration to the wheel at idle. Vibration at speed is usually a wheel balance issue, on new cars. Have them check the alignment too.
I replaced the bridgestone's with yokohama avid t4's when they wore out at 30k, and have been very impressed.
Still, if you would like to get the miles out of your current tires, you probably can by spending $30 or so and having a tire shop dynamically balance the tires for you, worst case.
I have a 4 week old LX & had same problem - regular vibration that all front wheel drive cars have, then between 67 - 70 mph, the vibration increased noticably. 2X the dealer did a load balance (spinning balance at high speed)as well as check alignment & rims for out of round; results = 0. I insisted they take it to the Firestone dealer. They took the car there (& gave me a loaner to use) where the tire dealer found that the passenger front rim was indeed out of round. Dealer replaced the rim & most of the vibration went away, except that the Bridgestone tires are such poor quality the only way you will remove all but the normal vibration is to replace the tires. I will do just that at about 30k miles. I suspect that most tires are not of the quality they were 20 years ago. Too many synthetics.
Synthetics in tires make them worse? 20 years ago you'd never get 80,000 miles out of a set of tires. 20 years ago there was no such thing as a tire that did well on dry pavement and snow. Many street tires today are better than high end racing tires of 20 yers ago.
Tires have gotten much better. Quality control may have slipped though.
HELP! I hve a 2001 CRV, bought in UK, but being used by me in sunny Barbados. My AC is still pumping out cold air (I have checked the gas is full) but over a period of time the power has got less and less. Even on full it barely blows. When I push the recycle button it makes a very loud blowing noise but doesn't make much difference otherwise. Any ideas? thanks everyone
Sounds like the A/C micron filter may be clogged. Have you ever changed it? In the US version it's located behind the glove box on the right side of the vehicle, and requires that the glove box be removed in order to change the filter. Good luck.
I was just passing thru and realized this posting # 733. Couldn't stop myself not to respond.
There is a concept in theory and practice called "engine breaking".
Downshifthing is a safe practice on snow covered roads IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES. What is your worst move on snow? Applying brakes... Downshifthing keeps the car under certain speed (UNLESS you push the gas pedal excessively) and eliminates brake usage. My rule is remove your feet from gas pedal, down shift, wait for rpm to settle down to reasonable level and start applyin gas again slowly to keep the car moving.
I believe it is a safe practise, I have been doing it for a long time.
It happened to me exactly one week ago in the morning (01-07-2004)as I was on my way to the day care with my baby in the back seat of my 2003 CRV EX 4WD. It was a cold morning, the weather was in the teens, I am not sure if this was one of the factors that caused the fire. I had the same fire problem with my 2003 CRV after its first oil change (about 2 weeks before the fire). And it was the last, because the CRV was total loss (it was burned completely). But my baby and I got out OK, thank god. I contacted Honda Customer Relation to investigate this fire problem. As I can see here, I wasn't the only one who had this engine fire with their 2003 CRV. Like "steveshari" and "sabrina9" we all had this engine fire problem with our 2003 CRVs. I think we should get together and discuss this over the phone of how we can get Honda to settle our losses. If anyone besides the two usernames I mentioned above had the same problem, please post a message here so we all know how many people have fall victim of this engine fire problem. Please get together and get Honda to recall all 2003 CRVs before someone get killed by this engine fire or seriously hurt!!! I got to say that lucky we all got out alive.
The fact that all of these incidents apparently happened after an oil change is indicative of poor dealer oil change procedures, rather than a product defect.
There is a big difference. For example, if some stupid mechanic leaves the fuel line poorly attached and it comes loose (causing a fire and loss of the vehicle), it is certainly something for which the mechanic is responsible; and they should pay. But that is not the fault of the Honda motor company.
Recalls are for design or production defects. Of course you may have evidence you can't reveal here, but keep in mind the first principle of statistics: coincidence is not causality. That is, just because two things happen close together does not mean that the first caused the second. Or, in this case, just because there have been 3 vehicle fires doesn't mean that the product is defective. There have also been tens of thousands of vehicles driven every day, without fires.
I'm all for Honda delving into these cases to verify that it is not a design/production issue (I drive my kids in my CR-V everyday). But the long odds are that it is not the vehicle design causing the fires. Honda has to look for similarities in the cases. No doubt the NHTSB is also searching for common factors. I assume you registered your case on their website?
I do agree, I am a Honda repeat customer. In fact, my first car was a 89 Accord, my second was a 97 Civic, and now this 03 CR-V. The reason why I went back to Honda so many times was because of its quality and reliability. Maybe not the best, but sure is good. It just worries me that there are so many 03 CR-V "time/fire bomb" roaming the street and waiting to burst into flames. As a victim of the fire, I think I am obligated to let people aware of this engine fire can and do exist. I did take the advise that I saw on the web site and registered with nhtsa.gov.
It's a case of failing to remove the gasket on the filter mounting plate. I had a good look at a 2003 CRV up on a hoist the other day. It's kinda hard to change the filter, you are going by feel. Not a big deal unless the person changing the oil is careless and he/she fails to notice if the old gasket sticks on the plate.
The new filter gets screwed on top of the old gasket creating a double gasket.
After driving it for awhile, the gasket blows causing the oil to gush onto a hot manifold causing a fire.
This by the way, can happen on ANY make or model in exactly the same fashion.
Would anyone who had the CR-V fire know and willing to tell me how much $$$ their insurance company settled the fire claim? Mine 03 CR-V only had 3300 miles on it, so I would like to get some ideas of how much I am expecting my insurance company going to settle the claim. Thanks in advance for any info you may be willing to share with me.
Hmmmm, a definite possibility. I messed up an oil change on my Accord once, left the old gasket on resulting in the double gasket. It ran fine for a week, then all of a sudden, the oil light comes on, so I have it towed to my house, throw 3 quarts of oil in, start it up and then watch it spray ALL over the place. Luckily, no fire. But I can see from the location of the oil filter on my CRV, that the hot manifold would get soaked in oil.
Your point is very interesting, especially your experience with that double gasket. Do you think oil, spilled on a hot manifold, would be ignited? If you have double gasket on burned car, do you think it can be found upon examination? It's strange, that "THE Experts" were not able to find the cause of these mysterious fires. I became suspicious, smth was hunky-punky here. Varmint was right - fire victims should hire independent investigators. Usually the cause of a car fire is a gas leak or electric short. Had anybody heard of a fire from oil (on other cars)? And what is Honda thinking? Are they waiting for multi-million lawsuit, when somebody will be burned alive? Interesting, some new Accords have the same engine and .. no fires.
"And what is Honda thinking? Are they waiting for multi-million lawsuit, when somebody will be burned alive?"
Honda is thinking that if the dealer mechanic forgets to remove the old seal (which is part of the standard maintenance oil change procedure), then the problem is not with Honda but with the individual dealer. Honda won't pay a dime in any lawsuit (if this is indeed the circumstance).
The point is that if the oil change is done properly, no damage will result. You could just as well say that Honda would be responsible if the mechanic left bolts off of the steering column and the steering failed on the street somewhere.
Why is this only happening with the first oil change? There is supposed to be an additive in the factory oil for break-in, but that would have been removed. So, why not the second or third oil changes?
Why is this not happening to other Honda's with the 2.4L engine? The Accord and Element use a slightly different tuning, but they are very, very similar.
Coincidentally, I just received word from my insurance company that they were able to pinpoint the cause of my engine fire (much to my surprise). They have proof that the dealer did not remove the original gasket... oil leaked out... and a fire started. The results have not been put into a written report yet, but that is the conclusion of the "expert" who examined the remains of my car.
Steveshari - Many thanks for keeping us up to date. That's the first causal report we've gotten.
Snowman - Engine braking is a good way to prevent yourself from going too fast. Shifting to a lower gear at the crest of a hill can help prevent the vehicle from getting away from you while driving down the other side.
But as far as slowing the car goes, I don't recommend it. It is much easier to modulate the brake pedal than achieve a smooth downshift. Especially with an automatic. Furthermore, engine braking only brakes the front wheels (unless you're already sliding). While brakes will apply resistance to all four wheels.
What is it that the oil is leaking onto that would cause the fire? Something about the CR-V design is contributing to this. I once had a Renault Medallion, and the dealer spilled so much oil that it kept dripping for a week even after I tried to clean it up. No fire. Also had the wrong filter installed once on an '87 Nova (California-built Corolla)and it periodically spewed out oil. But again no fire. Is the CR-V's manifold the only thing that would spark a fire? Where is the catalytic converter positioned? The comment about the special break-in oil is interesting and may deserve further investigation.
No matter where you put the filter, if the oil change is done properly, there will be no fire. IF TRUE, this means that there is no design defect.
Of course they could have put the hot stuff other places (and may consider that in the next redesign), but the fact of the matter is the CR-V is not prone to fires when properly maintained. The big question in this thread has been - is there a recall due to fires? From the current info, it doesn't appear to be the case.
Based upon Steveshari, I will have the investigator recheck the filter (if possible). Howver, the report I have says there was no evidence of leaking oil in my case. The car did not seize. Also, if Honda did an investigation on my vehicle as they say, this should have been pretty obvious, no?
I think you all need to rethink your definition of "Defect" Someone posted on the other site that Honda changed oil filters recently and many vehicles use the same filter. If the new filters are more prone to leaving a gasket, that is a defect (it is a Honda designed filter). Also, if the tolerances of a bad oil change are so great that a poorly installed filter causes a fire to blow up a car, that is a design defect. As I recall in the old pinto, there was not a defect per se, but something that stuck out that pierced the gas tank in a collision. Without a collision, there was no fire, as I recall. That was a design defect. The engineers should not be so stupid to not see this.
Still can't explain the first o/c. Still cannot explain why it is only 03's EXs. Still cannot explain why, if so many cars use the same filter, the gasket problem is not manifesting itself there. There is a design flaw on the 03's that would do this - something that apparently not only does not eexist on another Hondas, but also not on the 02 CRVs.
This many oil changes done at dealers (why none done at Jiffy Lube- wonder if their filter doesn't lose a gasket...ummmmmm) with this many problems is a defect in some capacity. Actually it is worse than a defect. Whereas before, we could rest knowing the defect might only be on a small amount of cars, if it is true that it is an o/c problem ANY of us could have a fire at any time, theoretically. I love how someone said it won't happen to a properly maintained car. I did properly maintain mine - took it to the Honda trained technician at the dealer. What is properly maintained? Do I have to do it all myself to make sure it is properly maintained?
Frankly, that is worse. Something was done between the design of an 02 and 03 to cause a problem. Honda should find out why, that's all. There has to be a reason why this is happening all of a sudden.
Honda cannot escape culpability (and liability) if a Honda trained technician is installing Honda parts, especially where the problem could be solved if Honda designed afilter wherethe gasket does not come off.
Funny, I do not see posts about other cars bursting into flames on a regular basis..sounds like a design issue to me ...with the CRV. Perhaps it is gasket, perhaps it is a few drops of oil hitting a certain spot....bottom line is that you should not need to be a rocket scientist with the percision of a diamond cutter to perform an oil change...especially if the dealer does it! If these things start flaiming more and more you will see some sort of design change, be it in the filter or CRV.
If there is a fault in the gasket or the filter, of course that is then the fault of the manufacturor (Honda). Sure, that would be a defect - in the filter or gasket, not the CR-V.
I think the suspect here is rather that two seals ended up on the car because the mechanic forgot to ensure the old one came off with the old filter.
Proper maintenance is not WHERE it is done (the dealer or Jiffy or wherever), but HOW it is done.
RE: Reason it is happening now. I beg to diagree. Remember - coincidence is not causality. Just because three fires happened recently does not mean anything more than three fires happened recently. It could mean something, of course, but if you want to make assumptions, why not assume the cause was double filter gaskets installed by incompetent mechanics? I don't know that any explanation yet presented is right; maybe there is some defect in the car.
Vehicles are not designed for oil to be leaking from anywhere in the engine, gasket or otherwise. Perhaps Honda will move the oil filter location in the next Gen, perhaps not. However, it is only a vehicle defect if the car is prone to catching fire even when correctly maintained. This is different from the Pinto - no matter what you did, if you got hit from the rear it was a dicey proposition. And there was nothing that could be done by the owner.
In any case, you can bet I'll be watching for more reports of engine fires. I do wonder if the recent change in filters may be a factor...
Varmit, I have a 2002 and I seem to remember it was extremly hard to get the first filter off for my oil change. When I finally got it off the gasket was in pieces, perhaps in Japan they don't lube the gasket. You may have the answer. The techs. do not take too much time to check the mating surface of the old filter especially if its hard to see, they could put a new filter onto bits of the old gasket.
Excellent point about the gasket with the 1st oil change. Maybe Honda does something unique with the oil filter as it's installed at the factory, like some kind of extra sealer. Hopefully, the Honda reps. who monitor these fora will know.
Wow! I, too, left my first oil change yesterday (1/15/04) at the dealership where we bought the car (Honda CRV 2004 EX), and on my way to pick up my husband & son from a play group, the engine began to smoke, and soon after was engulfed in flames. The engine is completely toasted; absolutely nothing in there was salvageable. We have filed a claim with our insurance co., as per the advice of our attorney. The dealership is perplexed; they are still waiting to hear from the big guys in Albany, NY. This was our first oil change with about 2500 miles on the engine. Is anyone hesitant to get another one of these? We are feeling a bit shy about getting a replacement after reading these identical accounts. I am also 8 months pregnant and not liking the idea of taking the chance again.
Comments
I had never used 2 or 1 before, so when it happened I was perplexed and did not have time to figure it out. I was driving and reached for the radio at the exact time I hit a bump and my hand hit the shift and put it into 2. I tried to pull the shifter towards me (like from D-P), but couldn't do it and pulled over for 20 minutes before I did the key thing. Seems simple now...
Maybe some of the experts could verify it or eplain it better but it seems to work fine. The owners manual does not say this I don't think.
Is this the first time you shifted to 2? What tiped me off is it was going from 2-1 and 1-2 easily, just couldn't get it to D and I could get it INTO 2 easily just not out of it.
First problem was the clicking breaks. Brought it to dealer and they said they needed oiling???
Second problem and I really would like an answer to this one - my husband changed oil at only 5,600 miles instead of the recommended 10,000. Will that hurt the SUV.
And lastly, living in Chicago, we had a good snowstorm last week. I decided to try out the ABS brakes. Driving about 25-30 miles an hour on deserted, snow-covered street, applied brakes. I did not pump the brakes. There was loud, and I mean table pounding thumps, coming from maybe the front of the vehicle. And my foot that applied the brake felt those thumps. I know you are supposed to feel something, but the noise was loud. Is this a problem? Thanks for all your help.
2)I stay with 10,000 mile service interval, but change my oil every 5000. You can't hurt it by changing more often, though I'm not positive its necessary. (I still do it, though).
3)I think the normal ABS action on CRVs is pretty violent.. It is different from some other cars. However, I think its normal for the CRV and the system is working properly.
regards,
kyfdx
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There are two ways that you can get that electric/static jolt:
1. Sitting on your seat you 'rub' your pants against your seat (say seat is synthetic and pants made of wool) and when you got out, on a dry day, you got a jolt.
2. Car is getting charged by ambient electric aerosols, dust, etc. while you drive it (you scoop the charge). If air is dry this charge would not go to the ground quickly, and when you got out you got a jolt.
regards,
kyfdx
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These are the people who grab the lever and try to manhandle it into the gear they want.
There is a gate that requires somewhat of a gentle touch. It's not difficult at all for the majority of people but some folks just seem to fight it.
Maybe Honda could look at a redesign in the future.
"This has happened to my wife several times (she shifts down for driving in snow), and she has really been scared."
If she's doing what I think she is doing, tell her to stop.
When driving in slippery conditions, you want to use as little power as possible. Downshifting will rev the engine higher and put more torque to the wheels. With more torque, there is a greater change of breaking traction during acceleration.
She should do the opposite during snowy weather. With a manual you should find the highest gear that will keep you moving forward. With an automatic, leave it in overdrive.
Still, there are a few people who grab it like a baseball bat.
This was one of the few things I didn't like in an otherwise outstanding minivan.
Still, if it's a problem for 5% of the owners, it seems they could make a change.
My husband hit the bottom of the door with my cute red CRV.
Now, the rear washer spray head is broken.
I don't see the tube ... just a hole there now.
Is there anyway to change the rear washer spray head easily?
Or we have to bring the car to dealer to fix?
I cannot find the part on web.
I guess I have to go to the dealer to get the part.
Bridgestone tires didn't cause the vibration in my case. But they're loud and have uncomfortable ride. I tried the following tires:
1. Yokohama Avid Touriong - very quiet ride & good control
2. BF Goodrich Precept Touring - very quiet ride & average control
3. Michelin Destiny - quiet ride & very good control
They are all much better than the Bridgstone tires. I chose Michelin's because I like the "control" feel of them.
I replaced the bridgestone's with yokohama avid t4's when they wore out at 30k, and have been very impressed.
Still, if you would like to get the miles out of your current tires, you probably can by spending $30 or so and having a tire shop dynamically balance the tires for you, worst case.
good luck
Tires have gotten much better. Quality control may have slipped though.
Jimbo
There is a concept in theory and practice called "engine breaking".
Downshifthing is a safe practice on snow covered roads IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.
What is your worst move on snow? Applying brakes...
Downshifthing keeps the car under certain speed (UNLESS you push the gas pedal excessively) and eliminates brake usage.
My rule is remove your feet from gas pedal, down shift, wait for rpm to settle down to reasonable level and start applyin gas again slowly to keep the car moving.
I believe it is a safe practise, I have been doing it for a long time.
Please get together and get Honda to recall all 2003 CRVs before someone get killed by this engine fire or seriously hurt!!! I got to say that lucky we all got out alive.
The fact that all of these incidents apparently happened after an oil change is indicative of poor dealer oil change procedures, rather than a product defect.
There is a big difference. For example, if some stupid mechanic leaves the fuel line poorly attached and it comes loose (causing a fire and loss of the vehicle), it is certainly something for which the mechanic is responsible; and they should pay. But that is not the fault of the Honda motor company.
Recalls are for design or production defects. Of course you may have evidence you can't reveal here, but keep in mind the first principle of statistics: coincidence is not causality. That is, just because two things happen close together does not mean that the first caused the second. Or, in this case, just because there have been 3 vehicle fires doesn't mean that the product is defective. There have also been tens of thousands of vehicles driven every day, without fires.
I'm all for Honda delving into these cases to verify that it is not a design/production issue (I drive my kids in my CR-V everyday). But the long odds are that it is not the vehicle design causing the fires. Honda has to look for similarities in the cases. No doubt the NHTSB is also searching for common factors. I assume you registered your case on their website?
The new filter gets screwed on top of the old gasket creating a double gasket.
After driving it for awhile, the gasket blows causing the oil to gush onto a hot manifold causing a fire.
This by the way, can happen on ANY make or model in exactly the same fashion.
Thanks in advance for any info you may be willing to share with me.
Do you think oil, spilled on a hot manifold, would be ignited?
If you have double gasket on burned car, do you think it can be found upon examination?
It's strange, that "THE Experts" were not able to find the cause of these mysterious fires.
I became suspicious, smth was hunky-punky here.
Varmint was right - fire victims should hire independent investigators.
Usually the cause of a car fire is a gas leak or electric short.
Had anybody heard of a fire from oil (on other cars)?
And what is Honda thinking? Are they waiting for
multi-million lawsuit, when somebody will be burned alive?
Interesting, some new Accords have the same engine and .. no fires.
multi-million lawsuit, when somebody will be burned alive?"
Honda is thinking that if the dealer mechanic forgets to remove the old seal (which is part of the standard maintenance oil change procedure), then the problem is not with Honda but with the individual dealer. Honda won't pay a dime in any lawsuit (if this is indeed the circumstance).
The point is that if the oil change is done properly, no damage will result. You could just as well say that Honda would be responsible if the mechanic left bolts off of the steering column and the steering failed on the street somewhere.
Why is this not happening to other Honda's with the 2.4L engine? The Accord and Element use a slightly different tuning, but they are very, very similar.
Snowman - Engine braking is a good way to prevent yourself from going too fast. Shifting to a lower gear at the crest of a hill can help prevent the vehicle from getting away from you while driving down the other side.
But as far as slowing the car goes, I don't recommend it. It is much easier to modulate the brake pedal than achieve a smooth downshift. Especially with an automatic. Furthermore, engine braking only brakes the front wheels (unless you're already sliding). While brakes will apply resistance to all four wheels.
JM2C
The comment about the special break-in oil is interesting and may deserve further investigation.
Of course they could have put the hot stuff other places (and may consider that in the next redesign), but the fact of the matter is the CR-V is not prone to fires when properly maintained. The big question in this thread has been - is there a recall due to fires? From the current info, it doesn't appear to be the case.
I think you all need to rethink your definition of "Defect" Someone posted on the other site that Honda changed oil filters recently and many vehicles use the same filter. If the new filters are more prone to leaving a gasket, that is a defect (it is a Honda designed filter). Also, if the tolerances of a bad oil change are so great that a poorly installed filter causes a fire to blow up a car, that is a design defect. As I recall in the old pinto, there was not a defect per se, but something that stuck out that pierced the gas tank in a collision. Without a collision, there was no fire, as I recall. That was a design defect. The engineers should not be so stupid to not see this.
Still can't explain the first o/c. Still cannot explain why it is only 03's EXs. Still cannot explain why, if so many cars use the same filter, the gasket problem is not manifesting itself there. There is a design flaw on the 03's that would do this - something that apparently not only does not eexist on another Hondas, but also not on the 02 CRVs.
This many oil changes done at dealers (why none done at Jiffy Lube- wonder if their filter doesn't lose a gasket...ummmmmm) with this many problems is a defect in some capacity. Actually it is worse than a defect. Whereas before, we could rest knowing the defect might only be on a small amount of cars, if it is true that it is an o/c problem ANY of us could have a fire at any time, theoretically. I love how someone said it won't happen to a properly maintained car. I did properly maintain mine - took it to the Honda trained technician at the dealer. What is properly maintained? Do I have to do it all myself to make sure it is properly maintained?
Frankly, that is worse. Something was done between the design of an 02 and 03 to cause a problem. Honda should find out why, that's all. There has to be a reason why this is happening all of a sudden.
Honda cannot escape culpability (and liability) if a Honda trained technician is installing Honda parts, especially where the problem could be solved if Honda designed afilter wherethe gasket does not come off.
I think the suspect here is rather that two seals ended up on the car because the mechanic forgot to ensure the old one came off with the old filter.
Proper maintenance is not WHERE it is done (the dealer or Jiffy or wherever), but HOW it is done.
RE: Reason it is happening now. I beg to diagree. Remember - coincidence is not causality. Just because three fires happened recently does not mean anything more than three fires happened recently. It could mean something, of course, but if you want to make assumptions, why not assume the cause was double filter gaskets installed by incompetent mechanics? I don't know that any explanation yet presented is right; maybe there is some defect in the car.
Vehicles are not designed for oil to be leaking from anywhere in the engine, gasket or otherwise. Perhaps Honda will move the oil filter location in the next Gen, perhaps not. However, it is only a vehicle defect if the car is prone to catching fire even when correctly maintained. This is different from the Pinto - no matter what you did, if you got hit from the rear it was a dicey proposition. And there was nothing that could be done by the owner.
In any case, you can bet I'll be watching for more reports of engine fires. I do wonder if the recent change in filters may be a factor...
This was our first oil change with about 2500 miles on the engine. Is anyone hesitant to get another one of these? We are feeling a bit shy about getting a replacement after reading these identical accounts. I am also 8 months pregnant and not liking the idea of taking the chance again.
Just curious.