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Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE
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As for Vue pricing, a well equipped 2WD with VTi and power package comes in around C$25,500 freight in and a AWD will be just under C$28K. The cheapest CRV with auto would be C$28900 plus freight and air tax (so around C$29,800). Given I don't need AWD, a CR-V looks pretty expensive. Even with AWD, the prices are a little more comparable, bit CRV is still almost C$2K more.
I like the CR-V, but I've had bad experiences with Honda sales and service. Saturn is rated very high in these areas so I assume it can only be better. Still want to take another look at the Tribute/ Escape.
But I have been talking w/the Saturn and Honda dealers in my area, getting (or rather trying to get, in the case of Honda) information on delivery, pricing, etc.
Saturn: As to be expected, very friendly and easy going; up front about delivery, availability, and very even handed when talking about the new CR-V.
Honda: Some of the lines they used to discourage me from even looking at the VUE (even after I told them I was a previous Saturn owner) - "Why would you want to buy a plastic car?", and "Can you trust Saturn with a SUV? They have only made sedans up till now". The most blatant line was "It rides on a car chassis. The Accord's, in fact".
I love Honda cars but I ABSOLUTELY HATE the way they treat customers. I never had a single problem with Saturn dealerships, and since I moved a bit, there were several. I honestly can't recall one single Honda dealership where I left happy with what I was told.
If these two vehicles are very similar (and on paper, they appear to be) Saturn will win with me hands down, solely due to dealership experience.
The Honda dealership also left me with the impression that they know people are looking at these two models side by side (since the RAV is too small and the Tribscape has Q issues)and are feeling the pressure, unlike when the first CRV debuted.
Just my opinion
Anyone taken delivery of a Vue yet?
Obviously, I need a closer look, but this quick glance makes me wonder about if the front fascia should have been a bit more bold.
I drove a 6 and still want to hear what the 4 bangers are like.
The RAV4 and CR-V both use large headlamps to give the front end a more truckish appearance. Other vehicles like the Forester and Escape use a blunt front end to get a more aggressive effect. The VUE has neither. I'm sure other folks will like it more, it just doesn't do anything for me.
Likes: The engine (V6) is quiet and powerful. The sticker reports 19-25 mpg. Not too shabby for a V6. Front seats had plenty of leg room. Head room was good. *Might* be tight for me (6'1") with a moonroof. The gear selector and most controls were well laid out. It cornered flat and steering was light. It still felt like a tall vehicle, but was good enough. Each door closed with a solid thunk. The cargo organizer is a nice gimmick. Styling from the side and back is nice.
Indifferent: The front seats were nice and large, but felt odd. They just didn't fit my frame very well. Interior materials were neither good nor bad. The gauge cluster in front of the driver was easy to read, but nothing to write home about. Cargo space was adequate. The cargo floor height was a bit high, but has a nice squarish shape. The wheel wells do not intrude too badly. The seats fold flat enough, but not perfectly flat. A touch of wind noise. Front end styling. Not as bad as my impression from last night, but the front doesn't do anything for me.
Dislikes: The handle used to fold the rear seats flat is on the back of the seat. Rather hard to reach from the passenger doors. You can get it from the very back. The rear seats have adequate legroom, but the seats are too low to the floor. You have room for your legs, but your knees are up in the air. Panel gaps. Especially the big gaps where the side of the hood meets the front quarters. The brake pedal was stiff (not much travel), but the gas was loosey goosey. I had to press it way down to get a response. When I pressed hard, it got up and went, but I had to kick it a little. If I hadn't given it 3/4 pedal, I'd have thought it was a four banger. Steering was light, but I felt like I was driving a larger vehicle.
The VTi system operates on pressure. The pressure is provided by the engine. This is fine and dandy as long as the car is running. If it stalls while moving, the car will glide without any pressure in the VTi. This causes extensive damage. In his words, "It'll blow up". Kudos to the Sales Manager for being so honest. He expects that Saturn will offer a regular 4 speed automatic instead. His guess was sometime in late Spring or early Summer.
Take the story with a grain of salt. This is just a retail guy. I'm repeating it because it sounds plausible.
What does this mean? The only way to get a 4cyl is with the 5 speed and no AWD. That deserves repeating, IMHO. No AWD! An AWD with modest amount of goodies (power gizmos, ABS, CD, floor mats, and side airbags) will cost you 24K+ (US dollars). It's not a bad price, but it's not a good price either.
As for your review, much of it rings ok. I thought it was a good overall package and it will sell well. Keep in mind Honda has a 4 or 5 year head start in perfecting the CR-V. I think the Vue is an excellent first effort for Saturn.
I'm kind wondering if I should put off an SUV purchase for another 3 year lease. Great deals on some cars right now and our little girl doesn't take up much space (yet). My current lease can be broken with basically no penalty now if needed.
V6's only for the first month or so and then the 4's will come online.....sounds like it may be a bit of a wait for the AWD/VTi. One thing I did read (which made me kinda nervous about it) was that GM engineers hadn't figured out the service intervals for the VTi yet and how often transmission flushes should be done or if they should be done at all.....you'd think that would've been figured out long ago, but then it is GM, famous for doing their product development only after the vehicle comes to market.
More on the VTi: One of the other things that I was told is that the VTi is an off-the-shelf product. It's been developed by a European company for general application. It was not designed for the VUE and Saturn has been working on making it fit (mechanically speaking). Among the problems mentioned was the stalled engine and the egnine's torque. CVT type transmissions can only handle so much torque. Maybe I'll call another dealer and see if I can verify some of this.
The manager did say that they will have the VTi for another car as well. He was probably talking about the Ion. But the way he talked about the VUE made it sound like it was a lost cause for quite some time and may not ever happen. The impression I got was that they hoped to have it worked out for April or May. Otherwise they would scrap the idea and get another transmission. They were able to work a manual 5 speed into the chassis along with the I4. An automatic would be slightly larger, but I have a hard time believing that it cannot fit.
Now, as Dindak noted, these guys may have just been trying to sell me the V6. But I made it pretty clear that I wanted the I4. When we priced out the I4 (VTi) at $21,770, I made smiley faces. When he gave me the $24,125 damage for the V6, I grimmaced and starting talking about the 2002 CR-V. In other words, I was clear that the VTi was a deal breaker, yet he continued to tell me bad things about it.
I guess if you can wait and don't want the V6, spring is not that far off. If you need an SUV soon, buy an Escape or a CR-V (2 best alternatives IMO).
http://www.canadiandriver.com/previews/02vue.htm
"Moreover, VTi will require a special mineral-based fluid and possibly unique service intervals."
Another article I read went further, saying GM engineers hadn't yet determined what those service intervals would be.
Most of the VTi driveability reports have been quite positive, as Dindak points out, with the exception of when you "floor it" and the engine holds at 5,600 Rpm or so.......not so bad if it was a Honda four but I imagine a Saturn would be loud and thrashy
Take a L-series for a drive and see for yourself.
The only difference is the that the L is a little bit louder and has a little bit more pull.
It seems to me Saturn rushed the Vue project a little. That's not to say it will be a bad truck, but not having the full line up available off the start and delaying the launch of the truck a couple of time certainly gives you the feeling they were rush to get this to market. I suspect mother GM waited longer than expected to give the project the green light.
I'm likely not buying till spring so I can wait for the VTi.
Honda has plans for a IMA hybrid CR-V if the hybrid Civic takes off. However, they aren't making promises until they see fit to put the plan in motion. IMHO, this is a better way to go.
I would like to try out a 5-speed when they have one. If I can convince my wife, I would love to have one. I miss having a manual transmission and it would save money also!
http://edmunds.yellowbrix.com/pages/edmunds/Story.nsp?story_id=26307073&ID=edmunds&scategory=Auto&
My CR-V issues: No ABS available on LX. Too much standard equipment on the EX - I don't need/want it, so I'm reluctant to pay for it. No armrest on 5-speed. Rear door swing opens, Spare mounted on rear door. Pompous Honda sales people. So-so service.
My Vue issues: Maybe somwhat underpowered (143 hp). A loaded V6 is expensive w/ "options" that are standard on CR-V (ABS, airbags, 6 CD). No way to haggle on price. So-so emissions.
A friend commented to me that I should be entirely (mostly) happy w/ a vehicle for the money I'm spending on it ($20-25K). Though I know no vehicle is absolutely perfect, I agree with my friend.
On one forum (not edmunds), someone commented that comparing the VUE with the CR-V was like comparing apples and oranges. I disagree. They are vehicles in the same class that have similar dimensions and features. They are competing against each other. Comparison of the two in valid and inevitable.
Saturn may be late to the game, but they have the experience of seeing what succeeded and what has failed.
Of course, there are other possibilities. ;-)
The 2WD CR-V can only be had with an auto transmission.
2WD VUE is available with CVT and 5-speed here.
Now, here's where I see some differences. One of the options I want (moonroof) is only available in the high-end CRV model (EX). I have also noted that other options too are only available in the CRV EX. That vehicle is only offered in an AWD mode which, in turn, lowers the gas mileage. The VUE, however, has a moonroof option for all their models. -Which has me leaning towards the FWD 4 cyl. VUE. This leads me to the helicopter effect, which some of you might find interesting...
When I test drove the VUE (both 4 cyl. and 6 cyl. models), I happened to notice a highly irritating noise that sounded like a helicopter descending upon the vehicle. I then realized that it happened when the moonroof was the only window fully open, and I drove at a constant 35 mph. I was able to reproduce the effect in both models. The salesperson (who was in the car with me) called it a "helicopter effect" that sometimes happens when the amount of airflow entering an opening is equal to the airflow exiting. We were able to stop the sound either by going under or over 35 mph, opening other windows, or slightly closing the moonroof. Anyhow, I had never experienced such an effect before and thought some of you might be interested in hearing about it.
As far as my decision between VUE and CRV, I'm still torn. I'm thinking about waiting until the VTi engine comes out before making a final decision. -my 2 cents...
I got rid of this sound by opening the driver's window and the passenger's window slightly.
I get a lot of compliments, and am getting good gas mileage... the mpg has gone up steadily since I've started driving the car.
I am really please with my purchase and the customer service I've received so far at Saturn.
As far as the standard transmission, I will first admit that I was weened on automatics, so I tend to lean that way. However, I can drive standards and the VUE really impressed me. I found it very easy to drive, and the power really impressed me. Luckily, I had a pretty cool salesperson along for the test drive who said, "There's a straight away coming up. Once we go around the next bend, shift it into 3rd and punch it!" And that's exactly what I did. And that little 4-banger moved a lot faster than I expected! The other thing that impressed me was the range 3rd gear had. Again, even though all my instincts wanted to shift to 4th, the salesperson told me not to shift so that I could see 3rds full range. Again, I'm not much of a standard transmission fan, but I was impressed. So, I have a feeling if you've already ordered one, you'll be happy.
Now if only I can get a VTi to test drive!
I was gonna wait for the 2003 to let the kinks out of the assembly line, but, the sport package I price at $C 3200 of free options. I wouldn't wait until the fall.
Is there an email address to ask about promotions at Saturn? and future improvement for 2003 models?
The Tribute drove most like a truck and the wind noise on the highway was very annoying. The CrV was was not nearly as comfortable as the VUE and it was also very noisy on the interstate.
The VUE was by far the most comfortable, rode and handled the best, and definately the quietest.
Hope to be a VUE owner in the next couple of weeks.