Has anyone ever bought a car with an internet service (Edmunds, CarsDirect, etc.)? I plan on trying it when I am ready to buy, but I would like to hear from someone who can actually compare it to the usual method of walking into a dealer and bargaining/playing games for 2 hours. I have read the piece on Edmund's home page. Has anyone out there actually tried it ?
The frequency at which we [consumers] purchases cars is extremely low (once every six years?)... eating at Perkins could be a weekly event. Consequently, customer service is more important in industries where you count on repeat customers.
Fortunately, Toyota realized that customer service could actually help build a brand (both in awareness and repeat customers). Only a few other auto companies have been able to do this.
Also, dealerships are an antiquated style of business (what other non-fragmented industry has such an pricing mechanism that one has to "haggle"). The only reason they exist in the form that they do, from what I can tell, is due to their powerful lobbying efforts.
If free markets truly dictated this industry, their practices would have changed years ago.
It is in some circumstances. At a restaurant or cleaners, especially one you frequent, then paying for good service and receiving it makes sense. Many would insist the same is true with certain premium clothing or department stores. In my experience Neiman Marcus offers exceptional customer care at a premium price.
In the realm of car buying, it's pretty worthless. You buy the car, drive away and never speak with the salesperson again (unless he bugs you with unnecessary follow-up phonecalls). Unlike a restaurant that you visit a few times a month, the salesperson is pretty much interchangeable as he's probably not the person you will return to see 2-3-5-7 years down the road when you buy a new car or help a friend buy a car. He's nothing more than the road you must travel to get your car. Unlike wait-staff, salesmen don't handle your food/clothing/finances on a continual basis. No value comes from his service because he doesn't provide a service that 100 other people in the city can't provide too.
Service has value.
No doubt. I implement customer relationship management software - it's all about making the most of service so that it's most profitable to a company. In the case of retailers and service industries, customer service is huge. For car sellers...I see very little value for either the customer or the buyer based on the invidual salesperson. As long as he's polite and gets things done, the customer is happy. Who he is, what he looks like or even what his name is are all irelevant, just as they are at Nordstrom or an eatery. You care that your needs are met, but by whom isn't important. And 1 year later you're certainly not gonna remember who got you a free oil change only that you got one from that manufacturer/dealer.
I couldn't tell you the name of the guy I bought my last car from 18 months ago. He was a nice enough fellow and we emailed back a forth a few times before i purchased. But I couldn't tell you a single thing about him because at the same time I was interacting with 5 other sellers and they all were faceless text on my screen with only one important thing to tell me: price.
Carsdirect has 6's for $400 over invoice in the Chicago area. I refuse to pay MSRP since I saw that. I have three cars right now so I have nothing but time. They'll have these things hanging from nails on the wall in a couple months. I'll buy mine then. Dealing from invoice I don't see why you can't get away with one completely loaded for $25,500 inc. TTT
I tried last year when I was looking for my Protege, but they gave a price $300 lower than MSRP! I think of it as an insult, but for some who can't deal, it's heaven I assume.
BTW, I hate Saturn's policy of no haggling. What a BS sales technique!
The best way is still to go to the dealer, be hinest about what you want and what you think you need to pay, and let the haggling begin.
blueguy-- looks like we posted the same ideas, at the same time... albeit, mine was a bit brief.
Anyhow, so are there any negatives to this car? All I've heard so far are the lack of real headrests, a smallish backseat (neither of which bother me too much), and resale.
What I'd really like to see is a head-to-head comparison of the 6 vs. the TSX (if H/A ever announces this thing!).
you state..."Fortunately, Toyota realized that customer service could actually help build a brand (both in awareness and repeat customers). "...
Toyota and Honda rank at the bottom of the sales satisfaction surveys. Essentially saying they have a terrible dealerbody and lousy salespeople. Even Kia ranks higher. Asian brands, in general, have the lowest sales satisfaction scores...people are happy with the asian cars but not happy with asian brand dealers. Mazda is making huge efforts in this area and is one of the higher ranked asian brands. Domestic brands do very well in this survey.
now back to our regularly scheduled program...Mazda6
While customer service is important when I service my car, I couldn't care less about it when I buy it.
I actually enjoy the fact that others can be taken by the dealer, while others who come in informed, can shave $$$ off the price of a new car.
I don't care if the salesperson makes any $; I'm sure s/he does't care either if they can sell me the same car for $$$ over MSRP, like a salesguy tried on me last summer. I laughed in his face and walked out, while he was still asking me to stay and work out a deal.
On the other hand, when I was presented a fair deal, w/out any BS, I stayed and discussed this with the person in a civilized manner.
Bottom line: it's everyone for themselves out there. If the dealer can sell a car to someone for $300 under MSRP and that person thinks they got a good deal, good for them. I know that on a $21.000 car if you don't save at least $1500 off MSRP, you lost. I sure didn't and I won't.
I gotta test one soon. I'm quite curious about it. And the backseat can't be nearly as murderous as my Jetta's. I feel bad when people get back there.
BTW, wgr, I bought my car via emailing dealers - is that buying online? The lowest price didn't win as I didn't want to drive 100 miles to save a measely $100. Regardless, I locked up the deal via e-mail and came in the next morning and signed the papers. It was the most painless way of buying the car.
Very solid points about customer satisfaction rankings.
My Mazda dealer in Toronto is making great efforts to improve service that was bothersome last year (long waits, not too pleasant waiting area, etc).
Honda and Toyota dealers offer quite crappy service here because the herd mentality keeps bringing sales in, even when there are better cars out there. Others have to fight it out...
It's the people who are paying MSRP for the car that are going to be devastated if circumstances demand that they get rid of the car. What today is a $25,000 car on the sticker will be a $20,000 at best if you tried to trade it tomorrow, not to mention if you have an accident and the car is totalled .. who's going to pay that difference? You are. I don't believe in paying MSRP for any car right now when it's a buyer's market.
Sorry, I didn't mean to get everyone all hot and bothered...again.
I won't ever talk about customer service again, as it is an unneccessary evil that it completely bogus.
Except, of course, when the customer needs something and their salesperson can help out. But, I get your drift.
Bad customer service! Bad! Speak no more to me, UGLY customer service! Customer service be gone! I will have NO MORE OF THEE! PRICE PRICE PRICE PRICE PRICE PRICE! THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!
Doying, good luck to you at your dealership.
I've been there before and it's beautiful. Do you all have to be good-looking and college educated to work there? What is your hiring practice?
You're right; I will be utterly devastated that I only received $250 off of MSRP.
Yes, I will be ushering in the tears. I get to drive a beautiful Mazda6 for two years while all of you try to figure out what dealers REALLY own their cars for! Doesn't all of this seem like a terrible waste of time to you!?
mentality. When you sell over 400,000 of a product for as many years as Honda/Toyota and not have ANY widespread quality issues (widespread meaning effecting a large percentage of production), you can rightfully expect to have a large following. I mean word of mouth is strong marketing.
Ww're not saying customer service is "evil", but price is more important than good service. And paying a premium for a smile I can do without is not worth it.
All in all, enjoy the 6 and let's change this topic of discussion.
Except, of course, when the customer needs something and their salesperson can help out. But, I get your drift.
There is nothing the salesperson can help a buyer with post-sale though. That's point. He's just an impediment to a simple process. Manufacturer makes the cars -> car is shipped -> dealership receives car -> buyer purchases car. The salesman's role is nothing more than skimming some off the top for doing nothing.
When my best friend bought a used vehicle six months ago, her transmission went out two months later.
Unfortunately, she didn't buy an extended warranty. The dealer, even though they didn't have to, paid for half of the transmission, half the labor, and provided her with a rental vehicle when it was getting fixed.
But, you're right. All dealers are evil and out to "take you for a ride"--right?
Customer service means nothing to anyone--except my best friend, who will buy all her future vehicles from this dealer because they went out of their way to help her when they DIDN'T HAVE TO!
I purchased a 6S. I haven't had the opportunity to drive it long distances yet; just to work. I'll keep you posted on the gas mileage. Hopefully, it's true to the sticker.
Unfortunately, she didn't buy an extended warranty. The dealer, even though they didn't have to, paid for half of the transmission, half the labor, and provided her with a rental vehicle when it was getting fixed.
Whoa, if your friend bought a used car that wasn't a certified pre-owned...oh nevermind, no sense hurling insults. My guess is, she did buy a CPO (one is silly not to), or it was a late model car still under the original manufacturer's warranty or the dealership sold that model car and perhaps there was a recall on it, like Honda's problems with the TL. Was it a TL? a CPO? a late model, still under warranty car?
Still, paying for half on an older car isn't impressive if they thought it'd keep her from throwing a fit. The labor and tranny cost them probably a quarter to 1/3 the total rate so they still made money and kept someone from squawking about a raw deal.
You're leaving out details to paint a picture that smells like a million hoax emails I get every week.
If any of you have not checked out the discussions on our Smart Shopper board, you really should do so - I don't have the time to hang out there that I used to (before I was hosting sedans!!) so my knowledge of it is not all that current, but I've always found that whole board to be a lot of fun debating all the things you folks are talking about.
I know I risk carrying on an argument that is probably better left to a different discussion, but...
Manufacturers are getting wise to folks who slavishly pursue an invoice price. In Canada, Toyota just went to no haggle pricing at every dealership in the entire country.
Want the invoice price? Move to the US. Pretty simple. I imagine that more and more manufacturers are going to implement this policy in the coming years.
Despite what people on this board say, there is absolutely no reason for car manufacturers to sell their products any differently than anyone else. Frankly, they create all kinds of problems for themselves by allowing dealers to undercut themselves (and often treat their customers terribly in the process).
I boldly predict that the day is coming when most automotive manufacturers will have no haggle pricing and salaried sales staff. Sure, you'll be able to buy a car online, but at the same price as at a dealership.
Gee, you mean the dealership gets better labor rates than the consumer? Really?!
Yes, thank you Blueguydotcom. I realize this.
1. Why was it a "raw deal"? When you purchase a used vehicle, you are taking a chance, are you not? Unless of course, it is a certified vehicle. Hers was not. To answer your question, it was not under warranty. (By the way, people DO buy vehicles that are NOT under warranty anymore. I guess we're not all as savvy as you)
2. When you purchase a used vehicle, unless you are buying certified or an extended warranty, you are, in essense, buying someone else's problems, am I right?
3. The fact that the transmission went out is not the dealerships fault; it's no one's fault.
4. Can't you just admit that the dealership helped out? That they cared about customer service? That they went beyond the call of duty?
I'm sorry you've had poor experiences, but not everyone feels as you do.
I purchased my vehicle from that dealership, and I intend to do so again.
Groovy pippin, the sales staff at over 30% of dealers are already salaried employees.
I think Doying and wonderwoman present decent points as does everyone else on this topic. Price is very important to me and I make the decision what I feel the cars value is. If I get my price, great. If I don't, I'll keep trying.
I will however, be damned if I would ever buy anything from someone who didn't know how to treat me. The salesman and I started off about $1500 apart on my last car. I didn't get cracked and run out because I understood he was doing his job. He spent the time to show me the car and he deserved the chance to earn my business. And he did just that. I may have paid a few dollars more than I could have, but I don't mind. I know he and the dealership have my back if anything goes wrong. God knows I couldn't fix a toaster let alone a car.
Bottom line...I got the car for what I believe the value of the car is and I have a dealer who is going to want to earn my business next time out.
If you "happily" paid MSRP for a Mazda then I'm sure the dealer will put their binoculars back in service so they can see you coming again.
Seriously, I can understand someone saying I paid MSRP because I didn't know any better or it is a VERY limited production model but to say I paid MSRP out of politeness ... I just don't get it and never will.
A dealership has to earn your business; I believe the dealership from which I purchased my vehicle from did exactly that.
They were very professional and respectful of me, and were not at all pushy.
They were dressed impeccably, did not smell of smoke. They were also young,fresh & educated. On top of which, they were extremely knowledgeable about their product.
That won me over. (Actually, my best friends experience won me over, but all of the above helped to cement it!)
Again, dealerships, if you are at the right one, are not like they were 20 years ago.
"There is nothing the salesperson can help a buyer with post-sale though. That's point. He's just an impediment to a simple process. Manufacturer makes the cars -> car is shipped -> dealership receives car -> buyer purchases car. The salesman's role is nothing more than skimming some off the top for doing nothing."
You said it all. Case closed!
ww19: We do appreciate service, but as it was the case for your friend, the salesperson did nothing, zero, nada, niente, rien, nimica. The service dept. Took care of it. The salesperson is just another leech sucking some $ out of you to pay his salary. I wish we could get a real price by net, order our cars by net and go pick them up from 1 location in every major city. This way we'll all save $.
enmillion: " will however, be damned if I would ever buy anything from someone who didn't know how to treat me"
Great point! That's part of the reason why I'm driving a Mazda and not a Honda today. The main reason is the huge difference in handling the PRO has over the Civic. ------------------------------------------------
Overall, I realize that dealerships will always exist. This being said, I will always use my knowledge to get a better deal than most people on a car. I enjoy working with a knowledgeable salesperson that is there to give me a fair deal. I wish we could do without, but if a 1=price policy existed, I know I would be paying more than I am now.
Okay, they "won you over"... but to do what exactly?
At best, I could see them hoping that you'll recommend them to a friend or colleague. And while that's good, I still don't get what they "won you over" for?
Are you buying another car from them soon?
Will you be back there buying accessories?
Or, are people happy to hand over money to others who are nice to them?
Personally, I pay for better service... but to me, this means paying for a service (ie, a haircut, food delivery, etc.). Generally, these are items that I have a regular frequency of purchasing or using.
I'm really not trying to "attack" anyone, I just don't understand the line of reasoning.
Price is not the most important thing to me. But neither is customer service. A nice balance between these two factors are usually driving my purchasing decisions.
Dinu01, I use the salesperson as a tour guide. I have only a given amount of hours in my life. Every one spent is one I cannot earn back. Money isn't the same. If I can save a few hours of my life while spending a few more dollars, it's well worth it to me. We all have to evaluate what means more. To me, it's that which I cannot get back.
Like I said, I'm sure that probably within even 1 month you will be able to get the 6 for invoice. Easily. With the Altima out, Toyota offering low financing, and Accord's going for invoice Mazda dealers will not be able to justify charging anything more. I too had a great test drive and we love our salesman BUT we don't love him or the dealership enough to hand them an extra $2,000 because we want one RIGHT then. I guess because of our mentality we are never atrociously upside down in a car nor do we lose our shirts if we do decide to trade it in early.
There are several cars that aren't Point A to Point B cars that can be had at invoice. Right now is a buyer's market and we should take advantage of that.
***Fowler - If I remember my Boy Scout days, moss grows on the North side (where it is cooler).***
why the trees in North Carolina don't have moss on them. It's on the North side! LOL!
Interesting debate here, folks. It's always been a haggle situation buying cars. Goes back almost 100 years, in fact, when people haggled buying everything from fresh produce at the city market to getting carpentry work done using the barter system. It's a tradition, but some carry it too far.
My dad was an automobile dealer in 1916 to 1920 and again from 1945 to 1955, when health forced his retirement. Anonymousposts asked if selling cars has changed? It has changed greatly over all that time and in unexpected ways.
In 1916, there were car dealers, but no paved roads, most cars came with two spare tires and a 45 mile trip took 10 to 12 hours, allowing for time to change blown tires.
In 1945, there were many car dealers, paved roads, and few new cars as factories changed from wartime production. Dealers often drove cars home from distributors with no back seats, with no rightside door handles and window cranks and other missing parts. They were shipped later as they came from parts suppliers. And buyers bought them that way. I remember those days because I drove many of those new cars. One was a convertable, the top would be shipped a month later, I ran into thunderstorms on the 200 mile trip home.
Times change and how dealers operate change, what doesn't change is how buyers think purchasing a car should be done. Getting the lowest price isn't always the best idea. People who want the lowest price really want bragging rights where they work, peer pressure. They not only want a new car, they want to win a battle.
What a dealer, or an individual in a private sale, is willing to sell a car for and what a buyer is willing to pay for it -- is the True Value of that one car; not all cars and not all the new cars on the lot.
The truth is, if cars were priced at their True Value in today's market, all of them would be dirt cheap. That's new and used and all the registered cars on the road. Lots are full of cars! If all the cars were put on the street, on the road, there would be no place to park them in cities and towns.
So, what you pay for a car is an artificial price, with artificial money, getting an artificial bargain.
I was travelling in my previous hometown, Montreal for the Thanksgiving holidays. It turned out that the International Autoshow was beeing held. So I decided to swing by with my spouse and oldest son. As soon as we walk through the doors, we went directly to the Mazda kiosk. Before we left West Palm Beach, I had taken my wife to a local Mazda dealer to look at the 6... she loved it. But she was not convinced of the sportswagon appearance from the photographs we saw on the web. When she saw the wagon...she said " I want It!" Her uncle is also shopping to replace a 16 years old VW Fox, after seeing the 6 said that it is on the top of his list.
The Montreal Autoshow had a yellow RX-8, a white sportwagon and red 5-door hatchback with right-sided steering wheels, and silver 4cyl and red 6cyl fully loaded. We sat in the two model that were accessible. I must say that I measure 6'-1" and my wife is 5'-11". We were comfortable. Lots of people were looking at the Mazda kiosk, specially where the 6 were located. This car will be a success within the province of Quebec for sure, where the Protege as been the number seller in it's category.
I know I'm coming to this discussion late when it's been buried, but I'd like to express approval of the sentiment that the car salesperson is a useless appendage to the marketing body of a dealership. I've never treated one with disrespect, but with very few exceptions I've found that most of them couldn't find their rear end with a searchlight let alone tell you anything about the car you didn't already know. They should be made to take a basic test on the models they're selling before they are sent out to talk to anyone. And given some counseling on what not to say. For example I had one callow youth of a salesman speak derisively of my daughter's car, when she was shopping for her first car after graduating from college. If we're going to have to have salespeople, I say, let's give them the authority to deal. Give them goals to achieve and let them set prices. Then we won't have this parade from salesperson to sales mgr to division chief etc. trooping back and forth from the little sales cubicle in which you sit wondering how you could beat an exit. If we can't have that, then let's have all-online sales. Perhaps if someone could build a simulator for each major model, that we could use for a small fee....
We do trade cars often. We were able to get a 01 Accord EX V6 coupe for $23,200 (invoice) in October 2000. We bought a 99 Accord for $18,900 (invoice) in Jan. 99 just to give a few examples. I could list all of the cars we have bought but I don't know if Edmunds has enough bandwidth.
If you check carsdirect.com you will see that a Acura 3.2TL-S can be had for $800 over invoice, same with the Volvo S60, the Lexus IS300, GS300, and the ES300 just to name a few. Like I've said, in this market there is no reason to pay close to MSRP for any mainstream sedan. The 6 is a VERY nice car but so is the Accord and Camry and they are both selling for invoice or below.
I am close to pulling the trigger on this car if I can purchase it at the right price. Unfortunatly, my local dealer claims that Mazda is not honoring the Ford X Plan program for the Mazda6. Smells awfully fishy. Has anyone yet purchased this car with above discount program?
I hate to tell you this, but just because websites like CarsDirect & Invoice Dealers boast of these deals, like "display" prices, dealers still have to give final approval to sell them at that price.
There are two ways to buy through Cars Direct:
1. Brokerage service (for people who think salespeople are scum, a tool I'm sure you'll all use in the future)
Here is how it works:
Step 1: The brokerage service gets your information & commitment to purchase.
Step 2: The brokerage service calls a dealership to see if they have what the customer is looking for. If the dealership does have it in their inventory, the Cars Direct representative asks the dealer if they are willing to sell it to that at "X" price.
"X" price has already been quoted to the consumer, but the Cars Direct representative does not know for sure if they can find it and buy it at "X" price. The dealer can turn them down if he or she chooses.
Or, there is Cars Direct on-line. "Display" prices are advertised there. A Display Price does not guarantee that you can purchase it for that price. It means nothing.
You see the price. You think you can purchase it for that price. You can't.
Invoice Dealers does not mean that you can purchase the car at invoice. It just means that the vehicles are selling for a certain percentage over invoice.
Sorry to burst the bubble. I know what you mean, anno. I'm sure you've purchased vehicles at invoice before. No one is disputing that.
If I can clear something up about X plans: Is is not a questions of Mazda honoring these plans, rather the Dealership honoring them. I spoke to someone on the Smart Shopper site that did purchase one at X plan last week.
Hope that helps. You may want to visit a different dealer...
The 6 will never sell at invoice. It's not a "point A to point B" car. (Like Toyota & Honda). It's positioned in a different class.
Lets see, the Mazda 6 is directly aimed at the Altima, accord, camry and passat and to a lesser extent the Maxima. Strangely, you can buy all 5 at invoice prices right now.
Mazda execs say they want a niche of the Midsize market, so what they're really aiming for is the same group that embraces the swift and fun Altima, swift and luxurious Max and the fun and luxurious Passat.
That's a crowded group and all can be had at or below the price of a comparably equipped 6.
BTW, the 6 is a Mazda, so it will sell at invoice. It's not a matter of if, but when...my money is on soon. February at the latest.
I just sat in the 6 today...and man, are those not the stiffest seats ever?!!? No one thinks the seats are hard? It's like sitting on a park bench! The exterior looks really nice, bulging tailights and smiley grill not withstanding. But c'mon, do we really need rock hard seats to zoom-zoom?...and the cloth seems to be DENIM!
Also, the plastic interiors are too hard and grainy, makes it feel cheap.
BTW, can someone tell me why there are as many as 4 sockets in the headlights...what are they for?
My prediction is that the Mazda 6 will be selling at just above invoice within 90 days. It happened with the Altima last year and it will happen with the 6 too, unless someone has sprinkled "magic pixie dust" on this model. Those of us who work for a living and don't have rich daddies to buy us cars can wait that long. LOL
Comments
The frequency at which we [consumers] purchases cars is extremely low (once every six years?)... eating at Perkins could be a weekly event. Consequently, customer service is more important in industries where you count on repeat customers.
Fortunately, Toyota realized that customer service could actually help build a brand (both in awareness and repeat customers). Only a few other auto companies have been able to do this.
Also, dealerships are an antiquated style of business (what other non-fragmented industry has such an pricing mechanism that one has to "haggle"). The only reason they exist in the form that they do, from what I can tell, is due to their powerful lobbying efforts.
If free markets truly dictated this industry, their practices would have changed years ago.
It is in some circumstances. At a restaurant or cleaners, especially one you frequent, then paying for good service and receiving it makes sense. Many would insist the same is true with certain premium clothing or department stores. In my experience Neiman Marcus offers exceptional customer care at a premium price.
In the realm of car buying, it's pretty worthless. You buy the car, drive away and never speak with the salesperson again (unless he bugs you with unnecessary follow-up phonecalls). Unlike a restaurant that you visit a few times a month, the salesperson is pretty much interchangeable as he's probably not the person you will return to see 2-3-5-7 years down the road when you buy a new car or help a friend buy a car. He's nothing more than the road you must travel to get your car. Unlike wait-staff, salesmen don't handle your food/clothing/finances on a continual basis. No value comes from his service because he doesn't provide a service that 100 other people in the city can't provide too.
Service has value.
No doubt. I implement customer relationship management software - it's all about making the most of service so that it's most profitable to a company. In the case of retailers and service industries, customer service is huge. For car sellers...I see very little value for either the customer or the buyer based on the invidual salesperson. As long as he's polite and gets things done, the customer is happy. Who he is, what he looks like or even what his name is are all irelevant, just as they are at Nordstrom or an eatery. You care that your needs are met, but by whom isn't important. And 1 year later you're certainly not gonna remember who got you a free oil change only that you got one from that manufacturer/dealer.
I couldn't tell you the name of the guy I bought my last car from 18 months ago. He was a nice enough fellow and we emailed back a forth a few times before i purchased. But I couldn't tell you a single thing about him because at the same time I was interacting with 5 other sellers and they all were faceless text on my screen with only one important thing to tell me: price.
BTW, I hate Saturn's policy of no haggling. What a BS sales technique!
The best way is still to go to the dealer, be hinest about what you want and what you think you need to pay, and let the haggling begin.
Dinu
Dinu
Anyhow, so are there any negatives to this car? All I've heard so far are the lack of real headrests, a smallish backseat (neither of which bother me too much), and resale.
What I'd really like to see is a head-to-head comparison of the 6 vs. the TSX (if H/A ever announces this thing!).
Toyota and Honda rank at the bottom of the sales satisfaction surveys. Essentially saying they have a terrible dealerbody and lousy salespeople. Even Kia ranks higher. Asian brands, in general, have the lowest sales satisfaction scores...people are happy with the asian cars but not happy with asian brand dealers. Mazda is making huge efforts in this area and is one of the higher ranked asian brands. Domestic brands do very well in this survey.
now back to our regularly scheduled program...Mazda6
I actually enjoy the fact that others can be taken by the dealer, while others who come in informed, can shave $$$ off the price of a new car.
I don't care if the salesperson makes any $; I'm sure s/he does't care either if they can sell me the same car for $$$ over MSRP, like a salesguy tried on me last summer. I laughed in his face and walked out, while he was still asking me to stay and work out a deal.
On the other hand, when I was presented a fair deal, w/out any BS, I stayed and discussed this with the person in a civilized manner.
Bottom line: it's everyone for themselves out there. If the dealer can sell a car to someone for $300 under MSRP and that person thinks they got a good deal, good for them. I know that on a $21.000 car if you don't save at least $1500 off MSRP, you lost. I sure didn't and I won't.
Dinu
BTW, wgr, I bought my car via emailing dealers - is that buying online? The lowest price didn't win as I didn't want to drive 100 miles to save a measely $100. Regardless, I locked up the deal via e-mail and came in the next morning and signed the papers. It was the most painless way of buying the car.
My Mazda dealer in Toronto is making great efforts to improve service that was bothersome last year (long waits, not too pleasant waiting area, etc).
Honda and Toyota dealers offer quite crappy service here because the herd mentality keeps bringing sales in, even when there are better cars out there. Others have to fight it out...
Dinu
Sorry, I didn't mean to get everyone all hot and bothered...again.
I won't ever talk about customer service again, as it is an unneccessary evil that it completely bogus.
Except, of course, when the customer needs something and their salesperson can help out. But, I get your drift.
Bad customer service! Bad! Speak no more to me, UGLY customer service! Customer service be gone! I will have NO MORE OF THEE! PRICE PRICE PRICE PRICE PRICE PRICE! THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!
Doying, good luck to you at your dealership.
I've been there before and it's beautiful. Do you all have to be good-looking and college educated to work there? What is your hiring practice?
"Fortunately, Toyota realized this and created the Lexus division to strive towards greater customer satisfaction in the car-buying process..."
Yes, I will be ushering in the tears. I get to drive a beautiful Mazda6 for two years while all of you try to figure out what dealers REALLY own their cars for! Doesn't all of this seem like a terrible waste of time to you!?
Ww're not saying customer service is "evil", but price is more important than good service. And paying a premium for a smile I can do without is not worth it.
All in all, enjoy the 6 and let's change this topic of discussion.
What's the fuel consumption on your 6? I4 or V6?
Dinu
Talking about MSRP though. Check the G35 forum. Everyone is happily paying MSRP. I don't see it.
There is nothing the salesperson can help a buyer with post-sale though. That's point. He's just an impediment to a simple process. Manufacturer makes the cars -> car is shipped -> dealership receives car -> buyer purchases car. The salesman's role is nothing more than skimming some off the top for doing nothing.
Unfortunately, she didn't buy an extended warranty. The dealer, even though they didn't have to, paid for half of the transmission, half the labor, and provided her with a rental vehicle when it was getting fixed.
But, you're right. All dealers are evil and out to "take you for a ride"--right?
Customer service means nothing to anyone--except my best friend, who will buy all her future vehicles from this dealer because they went out of their way to help her when they DIDN'T HAVE TO!
My best friend called them from Iowa when it went out. Not the service department.
They even had it towed from Iowa to the dealership for no extra charge.
Whoa, if your friend bought a used car that wasn't a certified pre-owned...oh nevermind, no sense hurling insults. My guess is, she did buy a CPO (one is silly not to), or it was a late model car still under the original manufacturer's warranty or the dealership sold that model car and perhaps there was a recall on it, like Honda's problems with the TL. Was it a TL? a CPO? a late model, still under warranty car?
Still, paying for half on an older car isn't impressive if they thought it'd keep her from throwing a fit. The labor and tranny cost them probably a quarter to 1/3 the total rate so they still made money and kept someone from squawking about a raw deal.
You're leaving out details to paint a picture that smells like a million hoax emails I get every week.
Manufacturers are getting wise to folks who slavishly pursue an invoice price. In Canada, Toyota just went to no haggle pricing at every dealership in the entire country.
Want the invoice price? Move to the US. Pretty simple. I imagine that more and more manufacturers are going to implement this policy in the coming years.
Despite what people on this board say, there is absolutely no reason for car manufacturers to sell their products any differently than anyone else. Frankly, they create all kinds of problems for themselves by allowing dealers to undercut themselves (and often treat their customers terribly in the process).
I boldly predict that the day is coming when most automotive manufacturers will have no haggle pricing and salaried sales staff. Sure, you'll be able to buy a car online, but at the same price as at a dealership.
By the way, the Mazda 6 is a wonderful car.
Yes, thank you Blueguydotcom. I realize this.
1. Why was it a "raw deal"? When you purchase a used vehicle, you are taking a chance, are you not? Unless of course, it is a certified vehicle. Hers was not. To answer your question, it was not under warranty. (By the way, people DO buy vehicles that are NOT under warranty anymore. I guess we're not all as savvy as you)
2. When you purchase a used vehicle, unless you are buying certified or an extended warranty, you are, in essense, buying someone else's problems, am I right?
3. The fact that the transmission went out is not the dealerships fault; it's no one's fault.
4. Can't you just admit that the dealership helped out? That they cared about customer service? That they went beyond the call of duty?
I'm sorry you've had poor experiences, but not everyone feels as you do.
I purchased my vehicle from that dealership, and I intend to do so again.
Groovy pippin, the sales staff at over 30% of dealers are already salaried employees.
I will however, be damned if I would ever buy anything from someone who didn't know how to treat me. The salesman and I started off about $1500 apart on my last car. I didn't get cracked and run out because I understood he was doing his job. He spent the time to show me the car and he deserved the chance to earn my business. And he did just that. I may have paid a few dollars more than I could have, but I don't mind. I know he and the dealership have my back if anything goes wrong. God knows I couldn't fix a toaster let alone a car.
Bottom line...I got the car for what I believe the value of the car is and I have a dealer who is going to want to earn my business next time out.
Seriously, I can understand someone saying I paid MSRP because I didn't know any better or it is a VERY limited production model but to say I paid MSRP out of politeness ... I just don't get it and never will.
They were very professional and respectful of me, and were not at all pushy.
They were dressed impeccably, did not smell of smoke. They were also young,fresh & educated. On top of which, they were extremely knowledgeable about their product.
That won me over. (Actually, my best friends experience won me over, but all of the above helped to cement it!)
Again, dealerships, if you are at the right one, are not like they were 20 years ago.
You said it all. Case closed!
ww19: We do appreciate service, but as it was the case for your friend, the salesperson did nothing, zero, nada, niente, rien, nimica. The service dept. Took care of it. The salesperson is just another leech sucking some $ out of you to pay his salary. I wish we could get a real price by net, order our cars by net and go pick them up from 1 location in every major city. This way we'll all save $.
enmillion: " will however, be damned if I would ever buy anything from someone who didn't know how to treat me"
Great point! That's part of the reason why I'm driving a Mazda and not a Honda today. The main reason is the huge difference in handling the PRO has over the Civic.
------------------------------------------------
Overall, I realize that dealerships will always exist. This being said, I will always use my knowledge to get a better deal than most people on a car. I enjoy working with a knowledgeable salesperson that is there to give me a fair deal. I wish we could do without, but if a 1=price policy existed, I know I would be paying more than I am now.
Dinu
I paid what I did because I wanted to drive home the 2003 Mazda6!
It is as simple as that.
I know it is new; I realize these 6's will be selling for much less six months from now.
Who cares?
1.I didn't want to wait 6 months to a year.
2.I had a great test drive experience
3.My salesperson was awesome
4.The dealership was great
5.The price they were asking, despite what anyone is saying, was NOT out of line.
Get out from behind your computers and Zoom-Zoom!
Tomorrow, I will climb into my brand-new Mazda6!
Smile!
P.S. What is wrong with being polite? God forbid we treat salespeople like human beings!
At best, I could see them hoping that you'll recommend them to a friend or colleague. And while that's good, I still don't get what they "won you over" for?
Are you buying another car from them soon?
Will you be back there buying accessories?
Or, are people happy to hand over money to others who are nice to them?
Personally, I pay for better service... but to me, this means paying for a service (ie, a haircut, food delivery, etc.). Generally, these are items that I have a regular frequency of purchasing or using.
I'm really not trying to "attack" anyone, I just don't understand the line of reasoning.
Price is not the most important thing to me. But neither is customer service. A nice balance between these two factors are usually driving my purchasing decisions.
Dinu
As for purchasing the 6 at invoice? Your best bet is to take advantage of S plan, if you can. That's your only shot.
The 6 will never sell at invoice. It's not a "point A to point B" car. (Like Toyota & Honda). It's positioned in a different class.
I appreciate everyone having such strong opinions. Isn't it great that we live in a country that allow us to do so?
Good night to all, and thanks again.
why the trees in North Carolina don't have moss on them. It's on the North side! LOL!
Interesting debate here, folks. It's always been a haggle situation buying cars. Goes back almost 100 years, in fact, when people haggled buying everything from fresh produce at the city market to getting carpentry work done using the barter system. It's a tradition, but some carry it too far.
My dad was an automobile dealer in 1916 to 1920 and again from 1945 to 1955, when health forced his retirement. Anonymousposts asked if selling cars has changed? It has changed greatly over all that time and in unexpected ways.
In 1916, there were car dealers, but no paved roads, most cars came with two spare tires and a 45 mile trip took 10 to 12 hours, allowing for time to change blown tires.
In 1945, there were many car dealers, paved roads, and few new cars as factories changed from wartime production. Dealers often drove cars home from distributors with no back seats, with no rightside door handles and window cranks and other missing parts. They were shipped later as they came from parts suppliers. And buyers bought them that way. I remember those days because I drove many of those new cars. One was a convertable, the top would be shipped a month later, I ran into thunderstorms on the 200 mile trip home.
Times change and how dealers operate change, what doesn't change is how buyers think purchasing a car should be done. Getting the lowest price isn't always the best idea. People who want the lowest price really want bragging rights where they work, peer pressure. They not only want a new car, they want to win a battle.
What a dealer, or an individual in a private sale, is willing to sell a car for and what a buyer is willing to pay for it -- is the True Value of that one car; not all cars and not all the new cars on the lot.
The truth is, if cars were priced at their True Value in today's market, all of them would be dirt cheap. That's new and used and all the registered cars on the road. Lots are full of cars! If all the cars were put on the street, on the road, there would be no place to park them in cities and towns.
So, what you pay for a car is an artificial price, with artificial money, getting an artificial bargain.
fowler3
anonymousposts, which vehicles, and how many of them have you purchased at invoice? You must trade your vehicles in every few months!
The Montreal Autoshow had a yellow RX-8, a white sportwagon and red 5-door hatchback with right-sided steering wheels, and silver 4cyl and red 6cyl fully loaded. We sat in the two model that were accessible. I must say that I measure 6'-1" and my wife is 5'-11". We were comfortable. Lots of people were looking at the Mazda kiosk, specially where the 6 were located. This car will be a success within the province of Quebec for sure, where the Protege as been the number seller in it's category.
Damax07
If we're going to have to have salespeople, I say, let's give them the authority to deal. Give them goals to achieve and let them set prices. Then we won't have this parade from salesperson to sales mgr to division chief etc. trooping back and forth from the little sales cubicle in which you sit wondering how you could beat an exit. If we can't have that, then let's have all-online sales. Perhaps if someone could build a simulator for each major model, that we could use for a small fee....
If you check carsdirect.com you will see that a Acura 3.2TL-S can be had for $800 over invoice, same with the Volvo S60, the Lexus IS300, GS300, and the ES300 just to name a few. Like I've said, in this market there is no reason to pay close to MSRP for any mainstream sedan. The 6 is a VERY nice car but so is the Accord and Camry and they are both selling for invoice or below.
There are two ways to buy through Cars Direct:
1. Brokerage service (for people who think salespeople are scum, a tool I'm sure you'll all use in the future)
Here is how it works:
Step 1: The brokerage service gets your information & commitment to purchase.
Step 2: The brokerage service calls a dealership to see if they have what the customer is looking for.
If the dealership does have it in their inventory, the Cars Direct representative asks the dealer if they are willing to sell it to that at "X" price.
"X" price has already been quoted to the consumer, but the Cars Direct representative does not know for sure if they can find it and buy it at "X" price. The dealer can turn them down if he or she chooses.
Or, there is Cars Direct on-line. "Display" prices are advertised there. A Display Price does not guarantee that you can purchase it for that price. It means nothing.
You see the price. You think you can purchase it for that price. You can't.
Invoice Dealers does not mean that you can purchase the car at invoice. It just means that the vehicles are selling for a certain percentage over invoice.
Sorry to burst the bubble. I know what you mean, anno. I'm sure you've purchased vehicles at invoice before. No one is disputing that.
Mazda is honoring the X plan.
Your dealer is misinformed.
If I can clear something up about X plans: Is is not a questions of Mazda honoring these plans, rather the Dealership honoring them. I spoke to someone on the Smart Shopper site that did purchase one at X plan last week.
Hope that helps. You may want to visit a different dealer...
Lets see, the Mazda 6 is directly aimed at the Altima, accord, camry and passat and to a lesser extent the Maxima. Strangely, you can buy all 5 at invoice prices right now.
Mazda execs say they want a niche of the Midsize market, so what they're really aiming for is the same group that embraces the swift and fun Altima, swift and luxurious Max and the fun and luxurious Passat.
That's a crowded group and all can be had at or below the price of a comparably equipped 6.
BTW, the 6 is a Mazda, so it will sell at invoice. It's not a matter of if, but when...my money is on soon. February at the latest.
Also, the plastic interiors are too hard and grainy, makes it feel cheap.
BTW, can someone tell me why there are as many as 4 sockets in the headlights...what are they for?