Its not a selling point for me but I know it has both good and bad points. It cannot be compared to wearing you seat belt. If you want to do that then its useless because its not clear if having ABS makes cars any safer. Insurance company statistics suggest it does little to nothing. However, I would bet the following: 1) Some people who have ABS dont know it and 2) The majority of people dont know how it works 3) People who have it and know what it supposed to do still dont know how to use it. When I got my 01 Protege ES I made sure I got one WITHOUT the ABS, moon roof, side air bag option. Thats only because it was cheaper and I dont think its a life or death option. My wifes 2k Subaru Outback Ltd. has ABS and its fine too. The Subaru can always stop straigher and sometimes faster under panic braking in wet conditions. The Protege actually stops faster in the snow even though its not straight and takes more work. Locking up you brakes and plowing a little just works better in the snow. Cant do that with ABS. However, you have to modulate your lock-up with letting up so you can steer. If you need to panic stop in a straight line (so you can steer) ABS is better. In the snow and on dirt it may actually take longer to stop with ABS but it will be straight and you can steer. Without ABS you can still stop in a straight line but it can take longer and the risk of a skid where you lose contorl is higher. On ice nethier will help much.
By the way I drove RWD cars in Maine for 6 years and I'm still here. No ABS, no traction control, no AWD, just my feet, hands, and brain. Then again ABS does not help you as much as: 1) Keeping your speed down when condition call for it. 2) Keeping a safe following distance for road conditions. 3) Understanding the dynamics and the safe limits of you car and your ability. 4) Oh yea, not driving like a moron.
Are you sure? I thought the 00 did have a folding rear seat? It could have been trunk pass through not a folding seat now that I think about it. I really thought it did have folding seats.
I actually enjoyed the rear disc brake debate. All I had to do was mention it, and everyone just jumped on it like flies on you-know-what.
Anyway, it's good to see that the majority agreed with my opinion. I think this is because people who are interested in the Mazda 6 are a little "different".
We beat this one to death already, but here's my $.02, FWIW. A chain costs more to manufacture, and it costs the company more to make it quiet. While a chain usually lasts the life or the vehicle, a belt will need periodic replacement, though the replacement intervals keep getting longer and longer. The last I heard, it was 105000 miles on the Legacy. A belt will lighter in weight, but the difference is small and probably not significant in the overall picture. I strongly suspect that the chance of a belt breaking at any age is greater than that of a chain, though I can't prove it. I have heard of belts breaking on fairly new cars, but this is usualy traced to a bad batch of parts. I've never heard of this problem with chains.
Incidently I had a belt break on a 86 Mazda 626 at about 200000 miles, after the water pump disintegrated and some shrapnel from it took out the belt. The engine was not further damaged from the belt breaking.
True Story: So, one day I was looking at a 03 Accord LX4 when the 03s first came out. This salesguy walks over and I asked what was new from last year. So he says, "well it has 4-wheel disc brakes". So, I pointed to the brake drum on the rear wheel and said "oh, does that include the drums on the rear?".
I am in the process of getting a drivers license.30 days to go after a very LONG 23 years without one..turning 50 in 03..Riding a Bicycle to Work in the winter and then working on a cold truck-dock is for a younger person than I!! Suspended for not valuing the value of a license..So in May I decided I needed a change..Proceeded,continued..Thirty days to go..Through my extensive research into motor vehicles..Not really knowing diddly, I bought a PROTEG'E LX for the wiffy..Excellent
Disk brakes let a car communicate better, whereas ABS takes that away. With either, it doesn't excuse diminishing a safe following distance from other cars.
ABS helps on a wet/snowy surface when you've overdriven your car.
Discs help 100% of the time. You must have them on ABS-equipped cars and if not ABS-equipped, at least they slow you down a little quicker, wout as much brake fade as on drums.
I might add..The PRO I mean..Not real comftorable DRIVING with the wife in the seat next to me..Can't wait to open it up a little bit in thirty days..Been following the ~6~ What a wonderfull experience learning,seeing how your presumptions have come into fruition..My first sight of the SIX on the web was IT Thanks to you all ..EXCEPT HONDA FANATICS..
Anybody want to start a disc/drum/ABS discussion? It is obviously a topic that lots of folks have lots to say about, and the comments are pertinent to vehicles across the spectrum.
I'm from Toronto, went into the mazda dealership to inquire about the 6 and see if thay had a brouchure. Was surprised to see how little the salespeople knew about the specs (not just the 6 but the other models as well) considering that not a soul was in there and they do seem to have alot of free time to brush up on this kind of stuff.
Anyway I am still deciding between the 3.5 Altima and a 6s. The dealer said that the 6 should be arriving in late January. Of course they tried to get me to order one then and there (not into the practice of buying cars without seeing or test driving it). I played along and tried to negotiate for a price but they wouldn't budge a dollar from the MSRP.(too bad)
My point is that my car lease is up in late March (didn't tell him that) so I said I would make a decision when the cars come in January after a testdrive as I said that I would like a new car by March. He then said that If you want a specific package from the factory you would have to order now to get it by late March.I'm only ordering the 6s sport package in either black or silver so the colour shouln't be a problem, the ones the dealer preordered did not come in any colours I liked. Can any new owners in the U.S. tell me what the wait was to get a factory ordered car when they first arrived? ( I know it depends on demand but I don't expect the sales to be as high as the Altima when it first arrived and their turnaround time was about 8 weeks here.)
I"ll make my decision in early february and I think that should be enough time for a 6s to arrive by late March from the factory.( Nissan told me 4 weeks and sales are still strong for the Altima up here).
Those of you going to check out the new 6's at dealers, if you have a digital camera and a web site where you can post images, take it along. Many haven't seen the Lapis Blue yet.
I took pictures of the Redfire color, it is very reflective when clean, like a mirror. Beautiful color, reminds me of Candy Apple red.
In a few months all the colors will be available and on dealer lots.
I missed the whole brake thing but I have something to add that applies to both models. You CAN get 4 wheel disc on the Accord and you CAN get ABS on the 6. They just chose difference paths when it came to standard equipment.
If you get the sport package you get gauges. How are these different from the standard ones and who both types compare to the ones that the PRO (ES) has?
The electro gauges are cooler looking and they seemed easier to read to my eyes. I didn't get to see them at night though so it might be a difference case in the dark. The standard gauges are actually pretty similar to the Protege's.
So, do any of you dealer types (or anyone else) have any idea when we might see Sirius Satellite Radio as an option--either factory or dealer installed? Or, at the very least, at least an aux input for use by sat radio, mp3's, etc.?
Sorry, long day at school and couldn't check responses to my earlier post until now...
Mine is the 6i with the only "option" being the automatic. That's all the local dealers had in the 4-cyl (which I wanted anyways) unless I got the yellow one that had everything on it.
I also liked the blue in the brochure, but none were available to view at the dealer. So, black, silver, white, and grey were my only options at the time. As written before (for the benefit of those who missed my earlier post), I had no car, so I needed to grab one soon and availability was my limiting factor.
I really enjoy it. My first full tank took me something like 350 miles (sorry, I didn't write it down or remember--I was having too much fun driving it around).
For Christmas I'm asking for new wheels (since the premium package wasn't available at the dealer either). Some of you may be groaning, but I'm 23 and they look cool!
By the way, to Jampedro: there are 2 power ports. On is just below the dials for the A/C as a cigarette lighter (next to an ash tray). The second is in the arm rest. There's also a hole in this armrest that lets you pass a cord through to the upper compartment of the armrest. Nice for keeping your cell phone up there.
So far there is very little info on the 6 in Canada, although the Star and www.canadiandriver.com did test drive the 6 and loved it.
I bought my Protege at Avante Toronto (formerly North Toronto) and when I shopped for my PRO I went to North Toronto (obviously) and also:
Avante Richmond Hill - car fans that will give you a good price Westowne (sp?) - tried to get me to pay $1000 over MSRP (ha ha!) Morningside - unwilling to deal and very uninterested in selling (hello!, it's your job) Gyro - dealt well, but held price too high for me Dufferin - not good, not bad - average
I can say that people at Avante Richomond Hill (Yonge North of Maj. Mack) and now Avante Toronto (Yonge/Steeles in the auto plaza north of Steeles, west of Yonge) are knowledgeable about Mazdas and are classified as "enthusiasts/car freaks" in my books. They're easy to deal with too. The service at Toronto is really good (had a major service done and spent quite some time talking to the tech - did the job as if it was his car) and inexpensive.
Most of the bigger family haulers(Tribute and MPV) and the truck all have ABS but no discs to be found. They must either be just fine with rear drums or very unsafe. Or does Mazda not care about the families riding on those dangerous drum brakes.
Thanks for the info, I actually went to the dealership at Warden and Lawrence and while the sales staff were nice and willing to negotiate(although not knowledgeable) any talk of negotiating they went straight to the manager who had the attitude that he was doing me a favor and seemed unwilling to sell. I'll avoid Morningside on your advice and hit those other 2 spots you recommended. (The manager's attitude ticked me off so much so that I'm leaning toward the Altima so hopefully the other dealers are more responsive, I don't expect invoice but they can treat me with a little more respect, heck even Nissan is knocking off about 1k and their sales are still brisk).
By the way was your PRO a factory order and if it was how long did it take to deliver? The PRO would be a good barometer as I expect the 6 sales in the midsize market to be comparable to the protege sales in the compact.(Assuming they're both made in Michigan, just want to know how efficient they are as I am working with a deadline).
f you get the sport package you get gauges. How are these different from the standard ones and who both types compare to the ones that the PRO (ES) has?
I haven't seen the gauges at night, but from photos the electroluminescent gauges are LCD-type with amber markings, red numerals and pointer. The standard gauges are white markers on black dials with red numerals and red pointer. The gauges change at night to all-red.
The display for time, radio + station or CD, HVAC, and outside temperature, above the center stack is also illuminated in red and so are the ODO and trip meters below the gauge cluster during the day and at night. Dials for HVAC and audio are illminated in red at night as well as the remote controls on the steering wheel.
The ODO now has large, bold LCD numerals with smaller numerals for the trip meters backlighted in red. Very easy to read at all times.
Either type should look very cool at night.
For those who don't have a Mazda Protegé ES, the gauge cluster has white dials with black markings and red pointers which change to red at night. The Protegé LX has green gauges with red pointers at night.
interesting that the Canadian models have speedometers marked in kilometers without the American mph numerals under them. Where the USA models have both. Considering how many Canadians travel south of the border it seems they would have both kmh and mph markings?
Of course, south of the border for Americans means Mexico, which is also metric.
Which cars are you talking about? My car's a '98 Legacy and it has both and every other car I see here has both. If you are talking about the 6 then how do you know since they are not out in Canada yet?
James: The PRO and all the other cars I've seen here have them both in km/h and mph.
Adam: I thought I forgot something - Scarboro Mazda. Nothing to write home about.
When I decided on the PRO it was already at sea (It's made in Japan) and I was told I'll have to wait 10-14 days to pick it up. It was 10 days, and that included the 2 days it sat at the dealer while they installed and painted the spoiler.
As far as price goes, it might be better to wait until mid-late February so dealers' inventory gives you some choice. I think at that point they'll be willing to deal.
If you drop by Avante (Toronto), there's two guys that I've talked to (Eddie - Chinese 27-30 yrs old and a Russian guy (forgot his name) 35-ish that has been working at Mazda for a few years - a rarity in this business). The Russian guy seems very knowledgeable and upfront. I only asked for a test drive from Eddie as I plan on getting a 2nd Protege.
Comments
By the way I drove RWD cars in Maine for 6 years and I'm still here. No ABS, no traction control, no AWD, just my feet, hands, and brain. Then again ABS does not help you as much as:
1) Keeping your speed down when condition call for it.
2) Keeping a safe following distance for road conditions.
3) Understanding the dynamics and the safe limits of you car and your ability.
4) Oh yea, not driving like a moron.
Yeah, can we please end this BS. It's pretty pointless. Don't worry, just like in the Protege forum we come back to it
Dinu
Just a suggestion - if you want a subject to go away, quit talking about it instead of keeping on telling others to stop.
;-)
So far the only two that meet my specs as stated are the Mazda 6i-MT and the Nissan Altima 2.5s-MT.
I will not comment on my preference nor go into a soliloquy on why I prefer either one to the other. Hoping to limit posts on this subject.
Anyway, it's good to see that the majority agreed with my opinion. I think this is because people who are interested in the Mazda 6 are a little "different".
We beat this one to death already, but here's my $.02, FWIW. A chain costs more to manufacture, and it costs the company more to make it quiet. While a chain usually lasts the life or the vehicle, a belt will need periodic replacement, though the replacement intervals keep getting longer and longer. The last I heard, it was 105000 miles on the Legacy. A belt will lighter in weight, but the difference is small and probably not significant in the overall picture. I strongly suspect that the chance of a belt breaking at any age is greater than that of a chain, though I can't prove it. I have heard of belts breaking on fairly new cars, but this is usualy traced to a bad batch of parts. I've never heard of this problem with chains.
Incidently I had a belt break on a 86 Mazda 626 at about 200000 miles, after the water pump disintegrated and some shrapnel from it took out the belt. The engine was not further damaged from the belt breaking.
Dinu
PS: I will not talk about brakes
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
(malt is a bad, bad kid today)
I don't know the maintenance intervals for sure, so I will refrain from guessing.
Aw, come on, we love inane debates around here. We've done the belt vs. chain thing before, but why not do it again?
Dinu
maltb - neither discs nor drums - you stop it by running into the nearest Honda.
You ... very funny man.
At least thats how they do it on the Cartoon Network.
Dinu
So, one day I was looking at a 03 Accord LX4 when the 03s first came out. This salesguy walks over and I asked what was new from last year. So he says, "well it has 4-wheel disc brakes". So, I pointed to the brake drum on the rear wheel and said "oh, does that include the drums on the rear?".
A) ABS
Disk brakes let a car communicate better, whereas ABS takes that away. With either, it doesn't excuse diminishing a safe following distance from other cars.
Discs help 100% of the time. You must have them on ABS-equipped cars and if not ABS-equipped, at least they slow you down a little quicker, wout as much brake fade as on drums.
Dinu
Anyway I am still deciding between the 3.5 Altima and a 6s. The dealer said that the 6 should be arriving in late January. Of course they tried to get me to order one then and there (not into the practice of buying cars without seeing or test driving it). I played along and tried to negotiate for a price but they wouldn't budge a dollar from the MSRP.(too bad)
My point is that my car lease is up in late March (didn't tell him that) so I said I would make a decision when the cars come in January after a testdrive as I said that I would like a new car by March. He then said that If you want a specific package from the factory you would have to order now to get it by late March.I'm only ordering the 6s sport package in either black or silver so the colour shouln't be a problem, the ones the dealer preordered did not come in any colours I liked. Can any new owners in the U.S. tell me what the wait was to get a factory ordered car when they first arrived? ( I know it depends on demand but I don't expect the sales to be as high as the Altima when it first arrived and their turnaround time was about 8 weeks here.)
I"ll make my decision in early february and I think that should be enough time for a 6s to arrive by late March from the factory.( Nissan told me 4 weeks and sales are still strong for the Altima up here).
Those of you going to check out the new 6's at dealers, if you have a digital camera and a web site where you can post images, take it along. Many haven't seen the Lapis Blue yet.
I took pictures of the Redfire color, it is very reflective when clean, like a mirror. Beautiful color, reminds me of Candy Apple red.
In a few months all the colors will be available and on dealer lots.
fowler3
Mine is the 6i with the only "option" being the automatic. That's all the local dealers had in the 4-cyl (which I wanted anyways) unless I got the yellow one that had everything on it.
I also liked the blue in the brochure, but none were available to view at the dealer. So, black, silver, white, and grey were my only options at the time. As written before (for the benefit of those who missed my earlier post), I had no car, so I needed to grab one soon and availability was my limiting factor.
I really enjoy it. My first full tank took me something like 350 miles (sorry, I didn't write it down or remember--I was having too much fun driving it around).
For Christmas I'm asking for new wheels (since the premium package wasn't available at the dealer either). Some of you may be groaning, but I'm 23 and they look cool!
By the way, to Jampedro: there are 2 power ports. On is just below the dials for the A/C as a cigarette lighter (next to an ash tray). The second is in the arm rest. There's also a hole in this armrest that lets you pass a cord through to the upper compartment of the armrest. Nice for keeping your cell phone up there.
--==--hare
I bought my Protege at Avante Toronto (formerly North Toronto) and when I shopped for my PRO I went to North Toronto (obviously) and also:
Avante Richmond Hill - car fans that will give you a good price
Westowne (sp?) - tried to get me to pay $1000 over MSRP (ha ha!)
Morningside - unwilling to deal and very uninterested in selling (hello!, it's your job)
Gyro - dealt well, but held price too high for me
Dufferin - not good, not bad - average
I can say that people at Avante Richomond Hill (Yonge North of Maj. Mack) and now Avante Toronto (Yonge/Steeles in the auto plaza north of Steeles, west of Yonge) are knowledgeable about Mazdas and are classified as "enthusiasts/car freaks" in my books. They're easy to deal with too. The service at Toronto is really good (had a major service done and spent quite some time talking to the tech - did the job as if it was his car) and inexpensive.
Dinu
By the way was your PRO a factory order and if it was how long did it take to deliver? The PRO would be a good barometer as I expect the 6 sales in the midsize market to be comparable to the protege sales in the compact.(Assuming they're both made in Michigan, just want to know how efficient they are as I am working with a deadline).
different from the standard ones and who both types compare to the ones that the PRO (ES) has?
I haven't seen the gauges at night, but from photos the electroluminescent gauges are LCD-type with amber markings, red numerals and pointer. The standard gauges are white markers on black dials with red numerals and red pointer. The gauges change at night to all-red.
The display for time, radio + station or CD, HVAC, and outside temperature, above the center stack is also illuminated in red and so are the ODO and trip meters below the gauge cluster during the day and at night. Dials for HVAC and audio are illminated in red at night as well as the remote controls on the steering wheel.
The ODO now has large, bold LCD numerals with smaller numerals for the trip meters backlighted in red. Very easy to read at all times.
Either type should look very cool at night.
For those who don't have a Mazda Protegé ES, the gauge cluster has white dials with black markings and red pointers which change to red at night. The Protegé LX has green gauges with red pointers at night.
fowler3
Of course, south of the border for Americans means Mexico, which is also metric.
fowler3
Adam: I thought I forgot something - Scarboro Mazda. Nothing to write home about.
When I decided on the PRO it was already at sea (It's made in Japan) and I was told I'll have to wait 10-14 days to pick it up. It was 10 days, and that included the 2 days it sat at the dealer while they installed and painted the spoiler.
As far as price goes, it might be better to wait until mid-late February so dealers' inventory gives you some choice. I think at that point they'll be willing to deal.
If you drop by Avante (Toronto), there's two guys that I've talked to (Eddie - Chinese 27-30 yrs old and a Russian guy (forgot his name) 35-ish that has been working at Mazda for a few years - a rarity in this business). The Russian guy seems very knowledgeable and upfront. I only asked for a test drive from Eddie as I plan on getting a 2nd Protege.
Let me know how it goes when you well... go.
Dinu