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Lexus SC 430
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i went and sat in the new SL500 mercedes yesterday. the lexus interior is far nicer. i like the mercedes body style better though. they wanted 117k for the mercedes... i would rather buy his and her sc430's
I have seen the list of options the dealer can change in the computer (e.g.: I had him change my system so that both doors unlock when I put the car into "Park") and I don't think the rear windows are on there. In my experience, they are too small to make any difference, up or down. Some people have asked if they can be put up while the top is down, and now you want to know if they can be put down while the top is up. I've never wanted to do either, although your inquiry makes more sense. My guess is that they are too small to be up with the top down. Why they will not down with the top up is anyone's guess, but maybe it's because noone wants to ride in the back seat with the top up anyway. You will just have to sit your dog down and have a little talk with him.
As for the other set of questions from toyotas1, "not much" re the XLR; the SL500 looks good (I saw one yesterday) from the front, but I don't like the back so much. It is a very large car for a hardtop conv. I don't like the interior much, either, and I think it's way overpriced; MB will throw in overpriced and indifferent service with every sale.
The SC430 handles very well for a GT. It's not a Porsche and is not trying to be. For most pupopses, it corners like a snake in a rathole. The ride and handling are fine, and you can put a lot of stuff in the trunk if you do it right. With the top up, I expect that at least 2 sets of clubs could go in the trunk, but I don't know as I don't play golf. The number of tennis rackets is almost unlimited, though. With the top down, you are probably limited to one set (as long as you have the run flats/no spare option).
The seats are very comphy and fine for spirited driving, but this is not a car you want to drive at its limits. I looked at the CLK's and did not like them at all. They are much bigger and far less luxurious. The interior in them is very plain. If you need a full back seat and a much bigger car, it's fine. I felt that the cars are so different that I don't think they are targeted at the same market, although I might be wrong on that. The CLK just did not look at all like what I was interested in, while the SC said "I am very different from anything else out there -- notice me."
Or maybe that was the girls that keep asking me about it.
I would highly recommend it lk5727@aol.com
1. Tires. Has anyone opted for the non runflat variety and regretted it (cost, mileage, roadholding etc) or vice versa?
2. How much is routine maintenance costing?
3. Can anyone explain or even hazard a guess as to why there are 70+ SC 430 models for sale on Cars.com and less than 30 (2001) GS 300 models on the same website? Does this represent a glut of the 2 door?
4. Is anyone getting the SC 430 for less than MSRP
Thanks.
Don't know why I worry about auto car washes... I worry more about scratching the finish than anything else. Having had convertibles in the past, they were a major no-no because of the cloth tops, but I figured with the hard top it was probably OK. Then again, if I'm going to own this car, I should not be so lazy as to wash it myself .
The dog, however, is not pleased . Then again, many folks don't believe that the dog ought to even be allowed in this car, but they aren't dog people.
Thanks for your help.
1. Tires. Has anyone opted for the non runflat variety and regretted it (cost, mileage, roadholding etc) or vice versa?
2. How much is routine maintenance costing?
3. Can anyone explain or even hazard a guess as to why there are 70+ SC 430 models for sale on Cars.com and less than 30 (2001) GS 300 models on the same website? Does this represent a glut of the 2 door?
4. Is anyone getting the SC 430 for less than MSRP
To the best of my experience and knowledge:
1. Almost everybody has the runflats. I have no problem with them. From what I hear, the ride difference is not much and although you have the "security" of a spare, you have virtually no trunk space when the top is down. Depending on the weather, this can be a lot of time. Get the runflats. Life is too short.
2. It's right in line with other Lexus services. Probably more than the Buick dealer charges, but you aren't interested in a Buick. The Lexus service and support is the best in the world, and it's not expenseive as MB; that's good enough for me. Finally, apart from routine service, in 10 years I've hardly had any other service calls at all. Nothing seems to go wrong on these cars. That's why they are at the top of the Powers survey all the time.
3. Don't know. Could be because people on the waiting list got the car and it was different from what they expected. It's different from almost everything on the road, and it's not everyone's cup of tea. If you can find a deal on a used one, grab it. Around here, used ones were recently going for up to $10,000.00 over sticker due to demand by people far down on the waiting list. Wealthy people, I think. I don't know what car.com is, and am not sure you should generalize too much from the data you find there.
4. Only in your dreams.
Happy motoring.
Also you have to remember that the economy isn't what it was, the T-birds are out( not that it's direct competition) there are new SL's on the street ( again not direct competition) and the SC is not a limited production and there are plenty of resales available. Typical resale seems to be one with 6 or 10,000 miles asking price mid $50's, $6 or $7K off list.
However, without a spare the trunk room is significant for a convertible. I can put my bicycle in the trunk without wheels. The OEM runflats have a rating of 140, so I would only expect about 15,000 miles from them.
I've seen the ads on the internet. some may be people dissatisfied with the car. But, I suspect that a lot are from people who hoarded the cars when they were in demand in order to make a fast buck. Now they need to get rid of them.
My understanding is that most dealers are charging MSRP, but that there are cars available.
Where do you live? How many miles did you put on your SC in those two months?
Personally, I'm very happy with the runflats so far. I bought my SC at the end of 2001 and only have 1500 miles on it. My dealer sold me the car for a little (about $1 K) less than MSRP, I think so he could book the sale last calendar year.
Nor have I had any problem with the bushings as you describe, although I will look at the Tech Serv Bulletin and ask my service mgr about it when I take the car in for routine service in the next few weeks. Expect a full report here.
Tires: Dunlop S9000's with BBS wheels
BTW, Ive read through this discussion, and just want to say for the record that looks are subjective and no one should claim that the SC430 is ugly. What is ugly to one person, may be just perfect to someone else. To each his own.
"Hi everyone out there; just curious if any of you have owned an SC300? I just got a 1997. Awesome car, but could use a little more power. Any suggestions?"
Yes. Trade it in on an SC400. The 300 has a six; the 400 has the V8, with about 280 hp. I had an SC400 for almost 10 years (which takes me out of the target audience of your question) and I never wanted for more power.
Of course, now that I have the SC430 which has the newer Lexus V8 (4.3 L instead of 4.0, and 300 hp instead of whatever the other one had), I am enjoying even greater performance, acceleration and gas bills.
Life is too short . . .
The reason we are buying a Lexus, other than the obvious fact that this is an awesome car, is I have read nothing negative on Lexus reliability or service. The same can not be said of my Mercedes-Benz SLK230. Long story short, it had 21 visits to service in 2 yrs. We had to go to arbitration to get the arrogant folks at MB to do something about the car's problems. Bottom line is the arbitration took almost 7 months and almost $4k to complete, but MB had to refund our original purchase price, in full. The car has about 17k miles and was purchased in Aug '99. We just got the results this week. Buyers please beware MB will NOT stand behind their car when they create a lemon. AND, they will be arrogant about not standing behind it. They admitted they could not repair the car and offered me $6k less than Edmund's average trade-in price because the car had "problems." Is that a total lack of taking responsibility for a "lemon" or what?
All reports say Lexus will stand behind whatever they make and will replace it if they do happen to produce a lemon. I can tell you that means alot when you happen to get one.
If only Lexus could match MB's style and technology, or MB could adopt the Lexus reliability, quality, service standards, one would put the other out of business. Right on to the poster who dragged them thru the arbitration process.
He said it's no big deal; they have had about two cars so far on which they have replaced the bushings per the service bulletin. There is no recall or anything so major. He said there is a bad batch out there that go bad and make some noise. If this happens, you will hear it. If this happens, they will make it right and replace the bushings.
As far as he can tell, it's pretty rare.
It sounds to me like they have a pretty good handle on this, which is both very much like Lexus and, of course, the impression any Lexus service manager would want to convey.
If anyone has any other information about these bushings, let us know.
I may trade up to an SC400 one day, but carnaught is correct in that the 300 is such a great car that maybe I should overlook the 0-60 and just enjoy the overall greatness of the car in terms of handling and luxury, not to mention its a fantastic looking car.
Thanks for the input.
The SC300/400 is still one of the best looking cars on the road.
Although I am having a blast with my new SC430, I sometimes, maybe a little bit, miss the elegant sweeping lines and beautiful curved front end of the 400, not to mention the luxurious ride.
Enjoy it because it will be some time before there is anything else quite like it again.
Anyway, mine is black (Bituminous Midnight Shade)and shows no paint problems on the plastic or other parts of the car.
My only paint gripe is that a road stone hit the lower silver painted surface of the grill area, which scratched off the paint, leaving a small black spot (I guess it's plastic under the silver paint). For a while, I thought it was tar on top of the silver. When I examined it carefully, after the spot would not come out (damn spot), I asked the dealer if he would either touch it up or sell me a little touch up paint thing for the silver, like I have for the black paint.
But they don't have that in silver for the grill where I have the nick, and they had no suggestions. Maybe I should just get a generic silver touch up paint at AutoZone and try that, unless anyone has any better ideas. I think a close match would be better than a black spot.
This is not a big problem, but I appreciate your time.
I seem to be lucky so far..no rattles...no paint problems on my Twilight Amethyst SC...still only 2600 miles..after almost 1 year.
Squidd99, love the Zaino stuff..buying more!!!
What I think you are feeling is the Drive-by-wire system. I noticed a one to two second delay in throttle response. The service technician knew exactly what I was talking about and said it was the normal operation of the car. Although I would still prefer more response, I have gotten used to it
Every bump I hear a clunk coming from my the back of the car, both sides. Sometimes its so loud sounds like something is broken, I have noticed it much more after not having been in it for 4 months while it was stored, now I hear about the TSB and the bushings, read all the posts in the fourm and found nothing much about it. Anybody got the details of the TSB and does what I describe sound like the problem?
I will contact the dealer about this but I like to have the info myself before I start talking to them.
Now that I think about it my 1996 SC400 had a very similar problem, clunking over bumbs in the left rear over the wheel well, was in the shop for 3 days a week after I got it and they put in a bunch of new parts and I never heard from it again. Weird....
Unfortunately, all come into the dealerships on the west coast with runflats. From owners comments and my own test drive, I would prefer the ride with non run-flat tires. Besides in the years I have driven, I have never replaced a tire
When I had a flat I either called AAA or used a can of fix-a-flat. So with the SC430, I will not put a spare in the trunk. So to all of you SC430 owners, can you recommend a Non Run-Flat set of tires? My preference is ride comfort, wet traction (not snow), and noise. Performance is secondary, but of course I don't want to sacrafice too much, if possible.
Although I know some owners have swapped tires back and forth between the two types, there are not many who have done so, and there is just not too much experience that owners have had with different sets of tires because the car model is so new.
Get the size from the spec sheet, and ask around at a local tire store that you trust (that means, not a big chain because they will want to sell you what they have; go to an independent dealer who carries high performance tires; if you are looking at this car, you probably know a tire store like that).
Also talk to your dealer, because you need to specify non-run flats on the car. That set-up does not have the pressure sensors - it's more than just a different set of tires. The dealer may have some choices for you. If not, you will have the choice of taking what Lexus supplies and driving on them, or you will have to unload them at a considerable loss and get new tires which maybe will be better for your purposes and maybe not.
If you really don't want run flats (and you will find that about 80 to 90% have them, so this will limit your choices) see what the dealer suggests, and try to get him to put on the car what your needs suggest. I have found Lexus dealers (OK: one dealer, but over 10 years) to be most accommodating. I think this is your best bet since you want something non standard at delivery.
As for your desire for a tire providing ride comfort, wet traction, low noise and relatively high performance, let me know if there is such a tire. If there is, by the way, it will be soft rubber and high milage will not be on the menu.
Let us know what you find out, because a lot of us will be in the replacement tire market in the next year or so. (Especially as the run flats, which most of us have, are only good for 15,000 miles or so -- we shall see.)
I think that I will get away from the run flats on my next set of tires but that being said because my car is a very low mileage car the tech'gy. in the run flat tires might be vastly improved by the time its ready for new tires. Although I am not sure where the whole run flat industry is heading but thats another issue all together.
The ride that I now have is what exactly what I expect from a car that is riding on the tires with the size, design(run flat), aspect ratio and speed rating. I am much much happier with the car and no longer think the run flats are to blame for the clunking and such that I used to endure on a regular basis from my cars rear end.
Rather strong commentary from the MB boys.
Anyone here seen the new Mercedes SL's?
And the cars should be compared, as they are both 2 seat (more or less) luxury folding hardtop convertibles. The comparison is not ridiculous, even if one's opinion is that one car is far superior to the other.
For example, if you compare them on price, the MB is much more expensive. If you compare the Nav systems, the MB system is extremely old, CD technology that is not only virtually obsolete, but prevents you from using the CD player to play music while you are using the Nav system. (When I'm on the highway, which is where I use the Nav system the most, is the same time I play CD's the most.)
Then there are the subjective comparisons, such as which car is better looking, and let's not get into that, because you can't win that argument. (Some people walked out of "Moulin Rouge.")
Both are good cars, and each will appeal to a lot of people. It's a great comparison, and not as ridulous as the example give.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
M
I don't think the new SL500 looks all that elegant. I finally saw one, it looked very sporty and my fiance called it "cute" but I actually preferred the older style a little more. In inheriting some of the styling of the SLK it also inherited that "cuteness" - I suspect this would get named in the "chick car" discussion if there were more financial parity between the genders. The one I saw was a silver color, which probably contributed to the so-so response I had. Silver is a nice blend-in color on any car model, a rich black SL500 would probably be much more eye-catching.
I don't think in terms of looks you can point to one car and call it heads or tails better than the other. It's personal opinion. I do think the SL has a more blending-in design, while the SC is more extroverted.
But it costs close to twice what the SC430 costs, so it ought to offer more. That is why I am very surprised that the NAV system is so bad and I understand that the sound system is also not as good as it should be in a car of this stature.
As far as appearance goes, the interior is generally considered to be not as elegant as the Lexus, and it does not have the leather storage space behind the front seats, which we all love so dearly.
On the outside, both cars are good looking (who would pay this kind of money for an Aztec???), but they are very different, and will appeal to different people in different ways. If you drive a Navigator, you probably won't like either one, even if you could get a good look from way up there.
Since the price difference is so great, the question for me is whether I would pay extra for what the SL has to offer. When I was looking for a convertible (to replace my SC400), I did not like the SLK because it was too small (same for the Boxter and the little BMW), but I gladly paid more for the SC430, which costs more than those cars. (I also drove the Jag XK conv for a weekend, and my only thought was "way overpriced," and this was a year before I even knew about the SC430. That's still my opinion of that car; but it is fun to drive.)
I do not know whether I would pay the extra amount for the SL500, but, if I were in the market, I would take a good look and probably a few test drives. If someone gave me one, I'd keep it.
Your mileage may vary.
Thank you kindly
Lk5727@aol.com
Unless you want to replace the $120/each pressure sensors, don't use flat-fix cans. They damage the sensor. You can opt to leave the sensors out but then you need to either disable the light, somehow elegantly cover it, or let it annoy the heck out of you.
squidd99,
The rest of the car is soo good, a stereo and a Nav system won't even matter, plus Mercedes is switching to a DVD based Nav system this fall. Stereo??? Well lets just say the Germans are very, very slow to change things like that. They're still as pigheaded as ever. Do you know what it took for Porshe and the others to finally offer a decent cupholder?
M