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Question for previous Saab owners (rgc2200??): The owner's manual says not to wash this car or take it through a car wash for "3 or 4 months". Only to rinse with a brush that has water flowing through it. Also, no waxing for 3 or 4 months. All this, under the guise of allowing the paint to harden.
I've read that new cars have their paint applied at high temperature and that they are totally cured and hardened by the time they leave the factory (at least that's what Meguier's, the wax manufacturer says...) Now certainly Saab must know more about the cars they build than a car wax manufacturer does, but 3 to 4 months to wait for a wash!!! It's going to be a LONG winter. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Anyone go totally crazy yet and wash their new Saab with...CAR WASH?
***Mooselook
GM is working to meld back office work with Opel and put Saab even more into its global purchasing. The latter is the trickiest thing for GM/Saab as no one wants Saabs to be too close to Opel and Saturns.
I've been offered a 2001 9-3 with
automatic trans
leather
heated seats
very very clean
28k miles
runs clean and sweetily (I think...)
for $18,700. This took some doing on my part.
The car has 2 yrs of orig warranty remaining; plus 2 yrs/50K miles of certified used saab warranty.
is this a good deal? what am I missing?
Thanks
Here in Atlanta, Kelley Saab pulled out last year, but Jim Ellis has two new dealerships here that seem excellent in terms of sales experience that I had.
I really think that the problems in the past were caused by having old models that needed updating to stay at the cutting edge, and prices that were too high compared to the merits of the cars vs. the competition.
moose, my friend, I also saw that warning, and it made me chuckle too. First of all, most new car washes are done with soft cloth/sponge like material, and lots of water pressure that don't put alot of abrasive force on the car. I'm going to talk to my service manager, who has rarely steered me wrong, and with all their experience they'd know if any cars have ever been damaged by a car wash. On my 2 week anniversary, with clear weather in the forcast for at least 5 days, I hand washed mine with a big, automobile sponge, cotton towels (no soap) and it looks great. The wheels took me a while. RGH: Saab has had financial troubles before. I believe GM is committed to the company, and especially the new 9-3. Dealerships may compress, but I think it would take a major disaster/bankrupcy to close down saab totally. just my opinion. any owners hear anything re: onstar availability for installation?
Wow, brucec35, thanks for the detailed info! You went into a lot of detail, and have given me a lot to think about. Let me add some more thoughts and see what I get in return.
To make a long story short, I probably would've leased a different car back in 2000 but just liked the S80 because of the styling and safety features. I just kind of fell into the lease without thinking too much and regret that some days. After close to 3 years of driving it, I am ready to move to a sportier car, one better suited for my age. What I do enjoy about the Volvo, first and foremost, is that I know that if I get in an awful accident, I know my chances of walking away from it in one piece are high because of the number of airbags, the WHIPS seats, the crumple zones, etc. I guess this car makes both my mother and myself sleep better at night.
However, the car is a bit too large for my needs and I am looking for something that has a bit more sex appeal (me being only 24). Here are my thoughts on the cars I am looking at.
Audi: I am still deciding on the 1.8T, the 3.0, and whether or not to do quattro. Of the 3 (Ar, 3 Series, and 9-3), I find the A4 the most conservatively designed. It is sexy, but in a subtle way. Its interior ranks next to the Saab's, with the BMW's way behind (rather plain looking for such a costly car). I found the A4 as roomy as the 9-3, and cavernous when compared to the 325i. A lot of what I think during test drives will be based on my current car. The 1.8T engine is of equivalent HP to the S80, but the car is much lighter, making me think the car will act much quicker. However, I am not sure if it will seem underpowered when compared to the 3.0. In addition, I am not sure what effect quattro will have on the speed and handling.
BMW: The styling of the 3 Series, I believe, can't be touched. It is sexy, classy, and sporty, all in one. Of the 3, it is the smallest car, and shows when sitting inside. During the recent auto show here in Boston, my roommate made the comment that BMW wants you to feel like you are a part of the car. *scratches head* Anyway, being 6'2", it was the tightest fit of the 3. The interior leaves much to be desired, especially in a car of this price. I know that the driving and handling can't match the A4 or 9-3, but the cost leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.
Saab: I've always found the 9-5 to be the most beautiful car on the streets, and it is nice to see a lot of this in the new 9-3. My heart skips a beat seeing these cars on the road. I just love the styling. The interior is on par with the A4 and miles ahead of the BMW. The Linear model is a bit too basic, so I am thinking of leaning toward the Arc trim. Again, being 6'2", I fit nicely into this car, as I did in the A4. One big concern is that this car was done under the umbrella of GM, and long-term reliability is a key issue. I know the A4 and 3 Series have had more years to work out reliability issues.
What I am looking for in a car, after having been in an S80 for almost 3 years, are the following (in no specific rank or order): reliability, safety (as safe as the S80), handling, comfort (being 6'2), price (not looking to pay MSRP or higher). I know that none of these cars is going to have all of these aspects. I just want a car that I will love driving, that won't be in the shop besides oil changes and check-ups, and will just be a joy to own.
Thanks for the suggestions in advance.
Perillo is cramped for space at the Diversy lot where it sells Saab and Lincoln/Mercury. Most likely, it will sell that lot to housing developers and combine Saab with its BMW operations closer downtown.
But I know from the Perillo salespeople that they have sold more than 10 9-3s already, with little advertising. The car is being received well in Chicago. There is no reason for Perillo to stop carrying what is selling.
Is this really true? I want Nav!
They haven't decided yet. Hope they do offer it here. Regarding those JD Power surveys, I hope they don't survey those cars that don't offer Nav as an option.
I consider both the Saab and BMW's to have a great combination of ride and handling. The Saab is really fun to drive, especially with the optional sport wheel/suspension package. When you factor in that a 3 y/o BMW cost me more than I'm driving a new 9-3 out for, I think the Saab gives 90% of the driving experience for a lot less money. Also, I'm frankly just tired of BMW's and the "stuff" that goes along with owning one. I also like that the 9-3 "feels" smaller than it is, even though it has interior room within an inch in most dimensions of the 5 series BMW.
I live in Georgia and so don't drive in snow more than once a year or so. We drove it last winter in snow and the traction control light was flashing but we didn't have any problems at slow speeds.
I am also unclear about the stereo on Linear models with the launch package. Edmunds goes on and on about it only being the Infotainment 1 system, but the Saabusa.com website says it is Infotainment 2. I dont' have an audiophile's ears, so I only tested it briefly. Ours is in transit from another city, and I won't pick it up till this weekend. It should say on the sticker, I assume. I also notice that Saab is now calling it "Entertainment 1/2". But whatever the test cars had, they sounded decent to me.
The auto transmission felt slightly less smooth than the BMW's, but that's the best I've ever driven. But it felt superior in terms of response to that of the Infiniti G35, which has more hesitation to kickdown. For a 4 cylinder turbo, I thought it had very smooth, immediate power. A little more engine noise than the BMW inline 6, but again, that one is the best.
Finally, I read one review on the web from another country that said expect the 210 hp units to reach 60mph .5 seconds faster.
My question is....anyone know of a place to look in the future for Saab turbo "chips" to boost up to the Arc/Vector .80 bar?
Try Hirsch for power upgrade. They are a Czech company and have taken the old 2.0 turbo 205-hp Aero (Euro model) and given it 280-hp and 400 Nm torque (more than just a chip upgrade, I think). If the new engine/turbo can handle the pressure/heat get the 6 speed and you should be able to do this.
www.saab-performance.com
www.hirsch-performance.ch
http://www.euroncap.com/results.htm (see latest results)
Just don't get hit by one if you're walking across the street. (one star of possible 4)
I think that the Saab can give you all but the assurance of reliablity. The last 5 years of Saabs have been pretty good and their customer commitment is better than most manufacturers.
top and bottom each front door - 4
top and bottom each rear door - 4
Back sill - 2
Subwoofer somewhere under a seat or in trunk - 1
= Boom...13 speakers.
(sorry for having this conversation with myself on the board - that was a complete waste of 8 mins of my life)
3300 km / month (Oct 2001 - August 2002)
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I was recommended by my serviceman to do oil&filter change every 8,000 km, the manual says up to 16,000 km (for all highway driving). I actually took it in around every 10,000 km at a cost of about $140 CDN per service (oil, filter, multi point check, tire rotation, etc.). My factory Michelin MXV4s will need replacing after 50,000 km (seems early to me). There is a valve sticking problem that was fixed (more or less) 6 months into ownership, covered by warranty (the asses gave me a saturn loaner).
So I was doing $500 CDN/ year + tires (winter and summer sets) = about $700 CDN/ year. Probably pricey compared with other cars, but I drove my car a lot and loved every minute of it.
Does 2003 come with 3 years service?
OnStar licks donkey in Canada. <- Just my experience (they couldn't find a provincial park in Ontario, I found the nearest hospital before them by just driving around, they found IKEA and The Beer Store no problem)
I got it back from service once and the engine rpm self limiter was 300 rpm higher. Before I took it in I could do 97 km/h in second gear, now I can hit 104 km/h. Nice to avoid that last shift right before the bell. Of course if I shifted faster I should probably shift as I pass 90 km/h but that's neither here nor there.
I bought a near/entry-luxury car and intend on treating it right.
Can you give a web address or issue?
thanks
Happy motoring.
http://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/email.html
I am currently driving a Audi A4, lease is up soon, and I have been looking pretty seriously at the 9-3's, but I need some expert advice on the lease numbers, because it just doesn't add up to me.
The car I am pricing out comes to $27,086 for the car and the $625 destination fee (no taxes, etc). The dealer is quoting a money factor of .00167 (4%), for a 36 month lease payment of $385 (55% residual).
Issue is, the dealer is saying there is no room to budge on this, *however* he can add the launch package for free at this price, due to "dealer incentive" rebate he gets from Saab. Now I thought that Saab was offering $1,000 to dealers to sell the launch package, however the price sheet I had faxed from Saab shows MSRP of the Launch package as $2595 and dealer Net as $2154.
do these numbers seem right, or should there be some more wiggle room some where?
thanks for any help,
Chris
Happy motoring.
My company is eligable for the GM supplier discount. I was quoted $29,334 for a new 9-3 with winter & launch packages normally retailing for $31,290 MSRP. There is 3.9% financing for 60 months through GMAC. Is there any room for negotiating further on this price? I haven't bought through the GM discount program before.
I don't think I will have a trade in as I plan to sell my '91 Mazda Miata in the spring.
9-3 Linear: 24,443
Launch Package: 2,258
Heated Seats $431
Add $625 transportation and $130 dealer prep for your total. Are you also getting metallic paint or an automatic? Those are pay options.
The auto & metallic paint would also be included, I'll call the Saab number and have them fax me the info just in case the dealer is trying to "pad" the price.
I would be able to get 4.9% for 60mo from my credit union and use the $1000 off, but I don't know if that would be better than 3.9%. I'll check but I'm gessing that the interst charges over 5 years would be more than $1000 for the added 1% financed. Maybe I can get a better rate from my credit union, like 4.5%.
Matt
To all others contributing to this chat, Cheers for helping me decide on a 9-3 over the A4 or 325i my fiancee wanted. She's the one with the gmsupplier connection, but hey, she got a ring. Although I am waiting for the Arc, there is no question in my mind that the Saab is faster and a better value, as well as more considerate for those riding in the back. It was mentioned above that there is a reduction on the launch pkg by $1000. If that is fact, is it documented anywhere, specifically for the gmsupplier plan.
This is my first time posting...never looking back.
I also just learned that the Zero-Zero-Zero GM incentive applies to the new 9-3. I can put zero down at 36mo @0% (or 60mo@3.9%) and no payments for 90 days. I may go this route.
Still looking for a base w/ auto only in the Chicagoland area, it seems most saabs are fully loaded with just a few base 5spd manuals around.
Matt
I figure a Linear will run me $28,334 with the launch package, metallic paint, heated seats, and automatic (including destination and dealer prep, but with the current $1,000 Launch package discount). If I wait for the Arc, I get the above, plus 35 more horses, leather armrests, 13 speaker/300 watt stereo, and drivers seat memory. However, on top of the $30,939 for the car with automatic, paint, heated seats, destination and prep, I would have to add the sunroof for $957 and the touring package at $1,040 (to get the CD changer) in order to have the same options as on the Linear I am looking at. That brings the Arc to $32,936, for a difference in price of $4,602, or 16% over the cost of the Linear.
After driving the Linear, although I'm sure the extra ponies would be nice, the Linear is plenty spunky for me, and the extra .5 second in 0-60 times is not going to change my commute much. Also, there are no guarantees the 0% financing will continue forever, and I am concerned that with Saab losing @ $4,000 per car, GM is going to insist on higher prices or less discounts at some point. Therefore, I'm having trouble justifying the extra $$$ for the Arc, and am wondering what factors have made you decide to wait.
No incentives that I have heard of up here yet though.
Another point against leasing... those "great" residual values on BMWS are set based on the WHOLESALE value of the car when you turn it in. This means you don't have the option of selling it yourself and pocketing the $3000 spread between retail and wholesale. Buying a less expensive Saab you can afford the payments on, then selling it privately, will net you more than leasing a more expensive BMW. Alternatively, I would rather buy a private seller used BMW with affordable payments. That's probably the best deal of all, here.
That said, no car is going to beat a BMW 3 series for residual value as a percentage of MSRP. HOWEVER, when you factor in the fact that a comparably equipped BMW 325i sedan costs about $5000 US dollars more than a REAL WORLD price on a loaded Saab 9-3 Linear, the lease payment numbers are a little in favor of the Saab, or at least roughly even. You might also want to check insurance prices before you buy. We did and a 325i cost more to insure than our '97 540i, due to the demographics and driving style of its owners. I assume the Saab might have a more sedate drivership and resulting lower rates.
Having owned two BMW's in recent years, I have to say that overall, I enjoy driving the $31,500 Saab 9-3 more than I did our 540's, even though it sure can't win any races against the BMW's. The car is a little more comfortable, smooth even with the sport wheel/suspension pkg, and is comparable in raw performance to a 325i, though the inline 6 is smoother and quieter. And as I've said before, I much prefer the sleek, sporty, yet inconspicuous look of the Saab 9-3 to that of the beautiful but very polarizing BMW. At least you won't be hated by half the driving public in a Saab. Some of the BMW luster wears thin when your car gets spit on, keyed, cut off in traffic, and you get followed and run off the road by people who just hate BMWs or see you as someone with money that they can rob. And finally, if anyone out there is into buying BMW solely for prestige, I have a newsflash for you. You're buying their low end starter model and aren't impressing as many people as you'd think.
Finally, remember that resale values fluctuate. And frankly, the old 9-3 may have had its champions, but it didn't really do much to deserve high resale value. (torque-steer, turbo lag, body roll, reliability problems, older interior style, etc) The new 9-3 is a much better car, and if it proves reasonably reliable, look for resale values to rise a lot. Especially since Saab is obviously discounting and pricing low now to get market share. Check out the price increases on a BMW 3 series since '99. It's huge. As the 9-3's get more expensive and popular, your resale value will improve.
Don't forget that a new 9-5 will be out as a 2004 model, I am assuming it will be higher priced than the current model (more A6, 5-series, E-class like pricing/size/etc.)
www.saabcarsonline.com has a recent article about how the GM/Saab 'efficiency program' is underway and going to get the company through its current troubles. GM is still pumping money into the factory so that the new 9-5 can be built on the same line as the 9-3. Saab will be around for the long haul (Fiat, SEAT, Skoda and Lada are still around). As an aside, I think it's pretty funny that GM has a 41% stake in the current Chevy Niva (Niva is an old Lada model).