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Comments
As far as safety goes, the 9-3 is the equal or superior of the Passat in crash tests. It's also a little heavier, which helps. In terms of driving fun, it's also superior. And if you think Saabs have reliability problems, try checking out the VW forums here and elsewhere on the web. Tons of problems compared to Japanese makes, and disturbingly, many reports of shoddy treatment by dealers when you do have a problem. At least my limited experience with Saab dealers here is that they will do anything to please you, give you a straightforward deal, and seem happy enough to fix things that are broken. The Passat is a nice car, but it's more of a nice family sedan than a sports sedan. It's also due to be redesigned next year.
All the problem items you mentioned can be fixed under warranty for 4 years. You can also purchase an aftermarket warranty through 100K miles for about $1500 (warrantygold, warrantydirect are examples). Finally, with the money you save buying a Saab rather than a $45,000 Mercedes C320, you can pay for a rental car and repairs if it does break after that. This isn't a Renault LeCar or a Yugo. I think most makes have fairly decent reliablity nowadays. A sticky sunroof or a rattle here and there isn't near as bad as being broken down by the side of the road. So if it's items like that, hey...welcome to the world of Euro car ownership!
I've had BMW's that cost almost TWICE what the 9-3 goes for that all had similar problems, so no make is immune from this stuff. One thing I can point out is that our 9-3 has had ZERO fit/finish/function items in the first 1,000 miles. I haven't found a single flaw. But I think the real important thing to look for is a dealer that will make things right when things do go wrong.
The 9-3 is NOT a GM vehicle. It is a SAAB! Built by Swedish workers in Sweden, not US workers in the US. Designed by Swedish Engineers.
Recent 9-5's have been very reliable according to posts at various Saab websites I've checked. Earlier models did have more problems, but my assumption/hope is that they've got it together.
for brucec35: Thanks for your post. I don't know if I would compare a 9-3 to a Merc...Totally different vehicles and markets. For a refined vehicle, I don't know if you can really top a Merc - the new E-class is beautiful. However, being in my 20's, I want something more fun (and a lot cheaper!). My real competition for the 9-3 is the Passat. Right now, it looks like the main advantage for the Passat is the price.
Does Saab give free service for the first 3-4 years? (Oil changes, tire rotations, etc.)
Stephen
Anyone know when the 9-5 is slated to be redesigned?
As far as price goes, I don't see a price advantage for the Passat over the 9-3 at all. The nearest comparable version, a GLX Passat w/ auto and ESP, goes for about $29,126 at carsdirect.com. A Saab 9-3 Linear with Auto, heated seats, and Launch pkg is $30,815 MSRP, but I offered $1300 off sticker on mine and they agreed w/o argument, so the most you would pay (here at least) is $29,515 for a very comparable car. So there is less than a $400 difference in price, but with the Saab you also get free maintenance for 36,000 miles/3 years, which should more than erase that. You also have zero down, zero interest, zero payments for 3 months financing available, or Saab will pay you $1000 in lieu of taking the financing. (they were when I bought mine, at least). So taking that into account, the Saab actually has a small price advantage when buying new.
I test drove the Passat, since I'd always liked them. They're the top of the midsize class. But they don't handle or generally peform well enough to be considered a sport sedan w/o adding sport springs, 17" wheels, and better tires. And while they do hold their value better than Saabs, remember that a new Passat is coming out next year, which may mean much lower residual value for your "old" one. I also found the seat bottoms to be too short for my legs, so that nixed it right there. The Saab seats are great. Neither is a bad car, and neither is the ultimate car, but I prefered the Saab for about the same money. Saab is a luxury brand, with hopefully luxury car attitudes at the dealers. VW sells lots of $18,000 cars. That has to affect their attitude, and based on what I researched on the web, it does.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2211a.shtml
As a side note, we have a large Scandanavian population and consequently a large % of Volvos & Saabs in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle, where I live. Heck, we even have a shop that sells ludifisk (sp?). :-)
Stephen
Does anyone know the answer to this? On GM's web site, SAAB is not listed on the available car list for GM dollars. Any thoughts?
I couldn't find a car exactly as I wanted, but there were a bunch that were pretty close. The car I got came to the dealer with the sports wheel package which was good/bad. I like the firmer ride, but where I live it snows a lot (and the 17" tires are of no use in the winter). In fact, one of the guys at the dealership said he took out a car with 17" wheels a few days who when it was snowing a bit and that "he'll never make that mistake again." Heh.
Anyhow, to make sure I actually bought the car, the guy swapped the 17" wheels for the 16" wheels (which I think look better anyhow) and gave me a credit for the wheel package (see below).
By the way, I've noticed Edmunds, Cars Direct, etc. lists the wheel package for $1,127 (list) and $1,295 (MSRP)... but all the dealer invoices I've seen have it at $877 and $1,000 respectively.
What I did was fax a bunch of local dealers saying, "Here is the exact car I want. I know there are a few of these on the ground (within a few hundred mile radius). I will come down there today, sign all the paperwork, and you'll make a $250 profit for 30 minutes of your time: 5 minutes to read this fax and 25 minutes of paperwork on the car." Most of the morons faxed me back with "come on down and lets chat" but one guy said (more or less), "You've got a deal. If you keep your word, I'll keep mine." He even faxed me what he said in writing.
Even better, I found a bank online (Ohio Central Savings) that did 3.9% financing (http://www.ocsavings.com/AutoRates.htm) -- and they do out of state loans (I'm not in Ohio).
OK, enough babbling... here is the deal I got. By the way, the $2,870 in rebates consists of a $1,000 "alternative financing" since I didn't use GMAC or Saab Credit (even though I got the same 3.9% rate they would have offered), a $1,000 rebate on the launch package, and $877 for swapping the wheels to 16" (all season) from 17" (summer only).
Total MSRP of the car was $32,085. I paid $26,580 before tax and license. Plus, I didn't get charged any fake "prep" or "advertising" fees. I've seen a few Saab 9-3 invoices (from different parts of the USA), and where I live they don't have those on the dealer invoice, but I saw a few invoices from the East cost, and they have like $600+ in fake charges.
Here is the breakdown.
24443 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear (Manual / Charcoal Interior)
625 Destination Charge
431 Front Dual Heated Bucket Seats
413 Cosmic Blue Metallic Paint
866 Linear Touring Package
2258 Launch Package
877 Wheel Package
-2877 Rebates
-706 Holdback Refund (2.2% MSRP)
250 Dealer Profit
============================
26580 Before Tax and License
1728 Tax Liabilities (6.5%)
0 Dealership Preparation Fees
0 Dealer Advertising Fees
45 Title Costs
341 Licensing Fees (This is normal for my state!)
===============================
28693 After Taxes and Discounts
Funny to hear so many dealers trapped themselves out of a quick sale with the need to 'Chat.' Chat about what, for heaven's sake?
Our last car was bought via autobytel.com and e-mail. No chatting until I picked it up.
1) What is your experience/recommendation with an extended warranty? The dealership was recommending "Heritage" at a rate of $2500 for 100,000 miles with a $100 deductible. Not sure if this is worth it...
2) Any suggestions on the "paint sealant" and "leather sealant"? The company supposedly guarantees both for life of car, but my thought was that I could maintain both myself, without paying $775 to someone else. Any experience with these services?
I have never bought things like leather and paint sealant and never would. The prices for what you are getting are always a rip-off. In fact, I would be a little miffed at the salesperson for even bringing them up.
Getting the stiffer springs AND the 16" wheels/tires you wanted was a real coup, too. You basically got the suspension upgrade for free. The Dealer wins too, because he can easily sell the takeoffs to a buyer who wants the upgrade for maybe $1200. They actually offered us a set of those on a non-sport model on the lot, in fact. We opted to wait for one to come in with the sport suspension.
FYI, the difference in the wheel/suspension upgrade package price is because Linear models do not actually come with the low tire pressure warning system they originally were supposed to. So the price on the actual cars was lowered accordingly. Edmunds is wrong on this. I wrote them a while back to let them know, but apparently they don't care enough to change their numbers. They're pretty sloppy on little things like that, making it hard sometimes to sound educated when talking to a dealer. I asked the reviewer of the 9-3 if she'd even bothered to go see the ones actually on lots, since the sticker plainly shows the price difference from their figures, and many of her criticisms centered on items Saab told her they were "fixing" before roll-out. Her reply sounded to me like they can't be bothered to actually update reviews by driving or even looking at the ACTUAL CARS that are sold on lots. Oh well, at least it's free.
Looking at your numbers again, you got an incredible deal on a new car, although some might say that you saved a little less that the MSRP would indicate, because you didn't actually get the 17" wheels and it may be worth a little less to many buyers down the line at resale time because of that. Who knows about Saabs, but as an example a BMW 3 series with the sport package and its 17" wheels will go for about $1,000 more than a non-sport with 16" wheels. Most sport oriented drivers would pass on a car w/o them. But it's what you needed. Also, handling won't be quite as crisp as with the lower profile max grip Pirellis, either, but you'll enjoy a softer ride and much longer tire life.
For us at least, the 0% financing was superior to the $1,000 rebate you decided to take in its place. Over only 36 months, it saves almost $2,000 over 3.9% financing, but not everybody can pay those huge payments, I understand. We also hadn't sold old vehicle yet, so the financing was fine with us.
Also, our lazer red model saved us the $431 for metal flakes in the paint, and dealers will tell you that metallic paint usually brings about $5 in value come resale time! But you still paid an incredibly low price for a well equipped sport sedan. You also may have saved some because you chose a 5 speed model. For some reason, even with sport sedans, manuals can be hard to sell in the current marketplace. I guess it's all the traffic.
As for holdback percentage. One source says 2%, another tells me 3%, and yours says 2.2%. I've never had so much trouble figuring the numbers on a deal as with this Saab. Talk about quirky.
I also can't believe how many salesmen blow easy deals with their "come down and talk to me" reply to legitimate offers. Actually I can. There are a LOT of very unsavvy buyers out there that get taken to the cleaners. The key for a salesman should be to know how to tell who is and who isn't a knowledgeable buyer.
I've had two extended warranties on BMW's (paid for by the previous owners, hehe!) and they worked fine w/ few hassles. An extended warranty will definitely help sell a car down the line, but the question is how much more will it bring relative to its cost? Hard to say. Some buyers won't even consider one w/o it. Others seem not to care. It also depends on how long you plan to own the vehicle. You can buy an aftermarket warranty up until the time the car goes out of basic warranty, so you do not have to decide now, though the cost rises somewhat accordingly. Try warrantydirect.com and warrantygold.com for online price quotes.
Make sure you look for a warranty that:
1. Is transferable to the next owner.
2. Gives a pro-rated refund for the unused portion of the warranty if you trade it in (most won't transfer to a dealer). We sold a '98 BMW 540i last Spring and got a nice $800 check back from the warranty company on their policy that wasn't transferrable to the new owner. I read the fine print and it paid off! And we didn't even buy the policy, the previous owner did.
3. Has a refund policy for those who never use the warranty. Believe it or not, many offer this.
4. Compare deductible vs. no-deductible plans.
5. Make sure they allow you to use any licensed shop you want, not just an approved list.
6. Look for ones that accept payments from the company's credit card via phone, and not ones that simply reimburse you.
7. Look online for complaints about the company paying claims. Not paying claims means you got a dubious bargain, so shop carefully and ask around. Try the Edmunds boards here for more info, but be sure to take the complainers with a grain of salt, they may well be plants from the competition. Look for trends...good or bad.
8. A listed exclusions policy is superior to a named coverage one. This means you would prefer one that covers everything "except" the listed components, usually wear items. If you just want coverage for big dollar items like the driveline and want to keep your cost low initially, a named-coverage policy might be ok. But you'd be amazed at how many items can fall between the cracks of a policy like that. For example, BMW catalytic converters go for $1200 at the dealers...and our car had two! Saab is probably pricey too.
9. Make sure your coverage includes damage from overheating, not just fixing the radiator. Some cheapo policies will refuse to cover your cracked block due to an overheated engine, for example. They'll just fix the busted hose or thermostat.
10. Avoid buying from a dealer in most cases. Much of the price is sales commission, not coverage. They may be ok, but shop carefully.
11. Wait a while after checking prices online before buying. They will usually send you emails with deals to entice you in after they haven't heard back from you in a few days.
I think I got a price of about $1500-$1700 for 5 yr/100K coverage from a couple of warranty companies online when I checked on the Saab. Not bad, but remember it won't even take effect for up to 4 years, so your money is tied up for that long before you ever get any benefit from it. And check the details as well as the prices, since they vary widely in price based on how good they are.
If you have deep pockets and can afford to pay repairs as they come, you'll probably do a little better w/o a warranty, since obviously the companies are in it to make money, not lose it paying claims that exceed their revenue. The odds are in your favor. But if you want "insurance" against catastrophe, warranties aren't a bad deal on European luxury cars.
Oh yeah, if you want to know which warranty companies are easy to deal with, respond promptly, and pay claims well, call your local independent shop that handles Saabs. They'll be able to tell you their experience with the companies you're considering.
So, as much as I love my new car, I do have a few things that I'd like to hear your feedback on. There are also a few miscellaneous comments peppered in that don't really need a response.
Some of these I don't see as problems per-se, just oddities (hey, it is Saab, they had to work hard to add oddities to this new mainstream vehicle!) I even love the little goofy plug they give you to cover up the (only) keyhole on the car since you'll never really use it!
(1) I got the upgraded radio (face). It really doesn't give more power (still a mere 150W), but it does have the fancy looking interface. From what I see, it doesn't give do anything that the normal radio can do yet (other than look cool). Right?
(2) On the radio, there are two features under radio settings called "regional" and "alt frequency". I flew through the radio manual (you can tell they are going to add more features to the radio because it is separate from the car manual) and saw no references to those features. Any ideas?
(3) I'd say that the data in the marketing literature for the 9-3 is somewhat misleading. I do not think it was on purpose, but it sort of seems like they say the infotainment system has 300W, which it doesn't. The sound is good, but not great. Rumor has it that Saab will offer an upgrade from 7 speakers and 150W to 13 speakers and 300W. Is this true? Do you think they'll offer us first-year buyers a discount?
(4) I know in Europe the 9-3s have (or are supposed to have) bluetooth. That would be nice because my new call phone has bluetooth. So, do you think that they'll (a) offer bluetooth here in the future and (b) if so, how will the infotainment system "choose" which phone (onstar vs. bluetooth phone) to use?
(5) The (head)light control is the one thing I do not understand. Simple as it may be, there is no off. The three modes listed in the manual are headlights (all the way to the left), parking lights (middle), and off (all the way to the right). And if you look in the manual, there are some other icons on the switch that look like "I", "II", and "III". However, on my car, there is headlights (all the way to the left) which turns on all the lights (including marker lights, night lights, etc... and allows you to turn on high-beams and fog logs), parking lights (middle) which also turns on all the lights (same as above, but only allows flash-to-pass high-beams and no fog lights) and the most strange of all, off (all the way to the right) which is the same as parking lights (i.e., all lights are on, headlights, makers, etc.) That has to be a bug, right? I understand the concept of DLR, but there is a huge difference between DLR and on. If I want to sit in my car (say while my passenger runs into the post office to drop something off) I can't shut my headlights down (and people think I'm going to pull out vs. just sit there). Have you guys seen this?
(6) I was a bit upset that the doors didn't lock and unlock automatically like they do on Audi's... but I read the dealer can reprogram the system. Problem solved.
(7) I like that you can change the battery in the key/remote/fob (which has amazing range) with a normal battery that you can buy at the local store. Some cars have a $10 battery and a $20 service fee to change the battery. Luckily, Saab was smart about it.
(8) As per item (5), there a green headlight and parking light indicator on the dash. If you can't turn the lights off, why even have this? It is always on.
(9) Are Americans really so dumb that we need a "shift-up" light. There has to be a way to turn this off. It is annoying, especially when driving in night mode, because that whole LED screen turns on each time it wants you to shift.
(10) I noticed I couldn't change 0,0 to 0.0. Most European cars let us use the decimal versus the comma. Another bug?
(11) I love the estimated arrival time of the trip computer (where you dial in mileage). Simple but cool.
(12) Glove box is huge! And air-conditioned. While kind of an oddball feature, I actually can see a use for it.
(13) Homelink transmitter is great. Took me all of 2 seconds to set it up.
(14) In some places manual says TCS and other places it says ESP for the most bottom button (in my car ESP). Typo?
(15) I live where it snows a lot. Is a block heater worth getting?
(16) I love how the index talks about the boot, bonnet, and tyres (UK style) but the core of the manual says trunk, hood, and tires. That made me laugh.
(17) I ended up with the charcoal interior. The (interior) rear deck, pillars, and roof fabric are parchment. When I first saw it, I was a bit perplexed. My Audi has a charcoal interior too, but the "curtains match the drapes" as they say. After driving it for a day (and asking 10 of my friends what they thought about this subject) most people said it looks "cool". I guess cool is good. Again, this is a Saab, right? Odd is in.
Anyhow, that is all I have to say. Overall, even with the oddities mentioned above, I'm really happy with my purchase. The ride is much better than my Audi. Strange thing is, I never actually never realized how small the A4 is on both the inside and outside. Boy or boy, is the A4 small. I'd never want anything bigger than the 9-3, it is the perfect size... plus lots of room in the trunk. Or is that boot?
#1 Depending on where I pick it up and drop it off, much (well, some) of the savings associated with doing the European delivery are lost. You'd pay no fees if you pick up and drop off in Sweden, but who wants to go up there now? It is dark 23 hours a day.
#2 The typical port-to-port-to-your-dealer delivery time (for shipments of Saab's that don't end up at the bottom of the English Channel) is about 8 weeks. That means that (a) I am making $500 per month payments on a car that I can't drive and (b) if I did not have access to another car, I would have to rent a car for 8 weeks, which is also about $500 per month.
All in all, I am not sure if the savings after that would be anything other than a few cents. As I recall, the savings for European delivery is about $1,500 less than US invoice (yes, invoice, not MSRP).
Also, I don’t think you get some of the rebates that you can get when buying through a dealer, but I could be wrong about that.
If you are going to live in Europe or spend a few months there, it is a good idea. If you’re like me, and you are there for a week at a time every other month or two, it is not a good idea (IMHO).
I even took my flash light and pointed it at the sun sensor (on top of the SID) to see if there was a photocell in there. Still, the lights stayed on.
Two tone interior --
http://saab93zzz.home.attbi.com/edmunds/two-tone-interior.jpg
No decimal place, just a comma --
http://saab93zzz.home.attbi.com/edmunds/no-decimal.jpg
Light switch with non-off off setting --
http://saab93zzz.home.attbi.com/edmunds/light-switch.jpg
Sun sensor (doesn't seem to be tied to lights, just air conditioning) --
http://saab93zzz.home.attbi.com/edmunds/sun-sensor.jpg
Headlight (read below) --
http://saab93zzz.home.attbi.com/edmunds/headlight.jpg
So, after reading some of what you guys posted, I went to go look at the lights. Here is an odd thing. With the bi-Xenon headlights, it seems that the main (bring as all heck) lens is both the low beam and high beam. On most cars I've seen (like the Maxima I rented the other day while on a business trip) there is a Xenon light for the low beam, but the high beam is an old fashion halogen lamp. Doesn't seem to be this way in the 9-3.
In fact, when I turn on the high beams, a lens or something moves (and goes over the existing low bleam?) resulting in the Xenon light being both the low and high beam.
Oddly enough, next to the Xenon lens is what looks to be a halogen bulb, but it never comes on. Ever. I tried all three light settings in both high and low, with and without fog lights, and they never came on. There is a bulb in there, but no clue what it is for.
Unless those are my DLRs and they never come on because my car has a bug and the lights never go off (as per previous E-mail)? Anyone?
bi-xenon are the new style lights were both low and high beams are xenon. As I understand it, Xenon's have a time delay before illumination. Under a flash to pass feature, using a xenon design for high beam would not work so previous designs used halogen bulbs for the high beams.
It seems to me that the halogen bulb should be used for DRL's and flash to pass feature. Sounds like you do have some sort of bug.
linear cosmic blue/ auto
w/ launch and touring
heated seats
$27,500 before fees and tax. After do the math, I think my deal is similar to one of the early poster who got a stick shift (also Cosmic blue, coincidentally, my dealer told me they only got two Cosmic blue a year)I gave up a few hundred dollars on my trade-in but I still think I got a good deal. My family was considering a loaded top-of-the-line Camry but the price for that is actually not too far off from the price that I paid for the Saab. Seems like an easy decision. Just hope the reliability is not TOO bad.
Now, if you're talking about a Cosmic Blue 9-3 with a 5-speed manual, there were only two US-spec units produced (and I have one of them). In fact, I read a press release on the Saab web site that said only seven 5-speed manual 9-3 were made (just kidding!)
But it does seem odd that there are so few 2003 9-3's with 5-speeed manual transmissions. Most dealers I spoke with said that that their typical stock was one or two 5-speed manual transmission equipped cars, with the rest being automatics. I find that a big strange for a sports sedan.
If you remember, when the Lexus IS300 came out it only had an automatic and people went insane about the lack of a 5-speed manual, however, this is not the case with the 9-3, which is odd.
Personally, I like the 5-speed on the 9-3. The clutch is a nice short run, it is light, and the shift pattern is tight.
When compared to the A4, the clutch is much lighter (you need a strong left leg for the A4), though the shifter is about the same.
I actually think the 9-3's clutch is perfect, good weight and travel distance. Takes a bit to get used to when compared to the A4 (I'll admit, I've stalled it a few times [um, when on hills]).
One car that drove me nuts (looking back, I can't believe I even considered it) was the Maxima SE. I got all excited about a 6-speed manual transmission with 255 HP... but the throws on the shifter were like that of a semi-tractor (long and spaced far apart) and the clutch had more travel than I've ever seen on a passenger car. That, and about 20 other things I didn't like about the Maxima SE (after renting one from Hertz for a week during a business trip). But that is a whole other thread.
Anyhow, back on topic, at first I didn't like the Cosmic Blue, I was actually looking at Midnight blue, but after going back and looking at them side by side (in the daylight, which was something I never did before) I changed my mind. It is a very pretty color.
Also, where on Edmunds site can you find info on the $1000 discount/rebates that everyone seems to know about. I know about them just from reading boards, but they don't seem to be listed in the incentives and rebates section of Edmunds 9-3 page, so where can you go to get accurate info on the cash incentives? Are they only available in some areas? My impression was that they were national. I realize the current deal with end 1/2/03, but presumably it will be replaced by another deal. (The 9-3 doesn't seem to be selling well enough for them to jack the price up by $1000, and the previous gen 9-3 had these new deals month after month.)
-Karl
What I would consider to be fair deal (for the average person) would be between $29,286 and $29,536 before tax and license (dealer profit of between $250 and $500).
That isn't too far off from what Edmunds says.
Invoice is $29,036; Edmunds is $29,827; MSRP is $31,085. I'd only say Edmunds is off by only $300 or so, which is less than 1-month's payment on a 3.9% loan for 60 months. Yes, money is money, but we're not talking about thousands of dollars out of wack, like happens for "up market" cars.
Below I've subtracted all rebates and deleted the wheel package since I didn't really get the wheels (though I did get the suspension, but again, most dealers won't do that).
Invoice Description
24,443 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear (Manual)
625 Destination Charge
431 Front Dual Heated Bucket Seats
413 Midnight Blue Metallic
866 Linear Touring Package
2,258 Launch Package
N/A Wheel Package
N/A Rebates
N/A Holdback Refund (2% MSRP)
500 Dealer Profit
29,536 Before Tax and License
As for the rebates and incentives, that is a bit odd too, but most of the dealers I spoke with were very up front with the $1,000 "alternative financing rebate" and the $1,000 "launch package rebate" -- but you are 100% right, some of these jerks didn't say anything about it at all. One guy even flat out denied they existed. Needless to say, there are a few dealers out there that will try and keep these if they can (even by diverting you to alternative financing for their own profit).
Face it, those of us that are armed with the knowledge will do better. It is no better than buying an area rug at the market in Turkey. Those who know what it is worth pay a fair price, those who don't know what it is worth get ripped off.
In as much as I'd like to think that a fixed global price (a la Saturn) would be nice, that would most likely mean I'd end up paying more than I did.
My feeling is that anything which costs more than a few thousand dollars has a fair amount flexibility in the price (a few percent).
For a $3 toothbrush at the store, 3% is $0.09. Who cares. For a $30,000 car, 3% is $900. A nice little chunk of money to play with, but not exactly a paycheck's worth of money for most people. Now, when you start talking about a $300,000 house, 3% is $9,000. And in all reality, you're going to have a hard time making an offer that is $9,000 short... if you're lucky, you can maybe save 1% (assuming the house was priced fairly to being with).
Take that (1%) back to the car world, and you're talking about $300, which is about the same number I mentioned above (way at the top).
Don't get me wrong, I want to pay as little as possible too, but it all comes down the the market (just like houses). If the car is in demand, you've got less flexibility, if the car is not in demand, you're going to be able to play around with that 3%, and maybe as much as 6%. But considering the difference between invoice and MSRP is about 7%, don't expect to get any more than that.
I would never buy a car from someone who takes a major loss on the car. After all, if they are that dumb, they won't be in business for long, and then who is going to do my free warranty and maintenance that Saab includes with the car? And I don't know about you guys, but there are only two Saab dealers in my state. Even in Orange Country (California), which has almost as people as my entire state does, there are only two Saab dealers!
=8)
Invoice of $29,036 and MSRP of $31,085 before the $2000 of rebates means without ANY negotiating at all you should be able to get $31,085 - $2000 = $29,085 as the effective discounted MSRP, which is quite a bit below Edmunds TMV of $29,827. A little bit of negotiating should get you somewhere between the invoice and MSRP (less the $2000), i.e., something around $28k. Negotiating the holdback into the equation, if possible, should get you another half a grand.
Seems like Edmunds and the other websites around are not doing a good job of accurately reflecting the deals currently achievable on 9-3s.
And where did you get your info about the two $1000 rebates (financing and launch pkg) in the first place? Just from the dealers? These deals presumably end tomorrow (if they are like the financing and lease deals), possibly to be replaced by new deals or the same exact ones. Where can people go to find out what the new rebate deals are if Edmunds's rebates and incentives page doesn't even accurately reflect the current rebates?
-Karl
(PS And yes, I'm completely ignoring the whole sport/wheel package aspect of your deal as irrelevant to the current pricing discussion, as I was above also.)
Let me address your points as I read them:
1. I'm not sure, but I believe I read somewhere that the base stereo was only 70w. So it is an upgrade in power.
2. I asked the wife and she says "regional" is a feature that will find the 10 strongest signals if you happen to be traveling cross country and want to see what's on. No idea about alt frequency, though.
3. My salesman gave me the Saab accessory brouchure and it does show a upgrade kit to 300w, with an amp and subwoofers, etc. No idea if you'll get any discount, but I don't think it will be available until the arc/vector come out if then. I didn't want to dump any more money in a loaded Linear, so I found a good deal on some Infiniti Reference 6x9's online ($80 I think) and installed them today. Took 2 hours, because my tools stank, but could be done in 30 minutes by a good installer. A decent improvement in bass from behind, but you have to fade speakers just right to get a good sound. Too far front and door speakers are overwhelmed at high volume, too far back and you have to turn it way up to get it loud. Even at 92db efficiency they are not as efficient as the stock front speakers. A rear amp would help, too. But I'm no audiophile so it sounds GREAT to me. Crisp and sizzled on my old "My Sharona" Knack CD. : )
4. I've heard of bluetooth but don't know what it is exactly. Saw a video on it on Saab's website, but I suspect it may not be offered here. Onstar will be provided for 2 years free by saab when it's installed, and you can sign up for hands free, voice activated onstar cell service by pushing the onstar button and giving a credit card. It's available in various plans, about 20 to 30 cents a minute depending on your plan. Good for ocassional use or as a backup. No idea if you can integrate it with your existing phone.
5. From what I can tell, you can never turn the headlights off. I wondered about that too, but apparently HID headlights last about 10 times as long as Halogen, so maybe they just use the low beam HIDs as the DRL's. A defeat switch would be nice, but I haven't seen anything about it when I browsed the manual.
6, 7, - no comment required
8. I suspect that these features are retained from cars w/o the HID headlights. They may not use the low beams as DRL's and do turn on/off, I don't know for sure.
9. I haven't yet seen the shift up light. I hope you read the warning not to exceed 5000 rpms or use high boost during the first 1,000 mile breakin period. But in auto mode it tends to shift before that except at max throttle. I have just been backing off before that number comes up on the tach.
10. There is a screen on the info system to change from km to miles and stuff like that, but I'm not sure if the comma is included in the changes.
13. I can't seem to get the homelink to program right! I did the one on our old BMW's, but this one is not working. Am I doing it right? Clear the memory by holding button 1 and 3 for a while, first...then hold your own transmitter 1-3 inches under the mirror and hold down both buttons till it flashes quickly. What am I missing here?
14. Not sure, since I haven't tried defeating either yet.
17. We chose the parchment interior even though we usually love black interiors because we felt that on the Saab it needed a little light color to contrast with the overly dark interior.
We looked at A4's more than once in the past but they were just too small inside for me. My right leg would hit the center console at a painful angle. They should have rounded it off more. Plus, the new A4 1.8T's have an ugly black trim inside instead of aluminum or wood and they now charge for leather and don't offer leatherette, which pushed the price of them too close to the 3.0's to make sense. Love the look, though.
As for the "no function bulb" in your photos. I faintly remember I read somewhere that the car has Halogen "backup" for the headlights. Check your manual.
I have seen accurate Edmunds info and very sloppy inaccurate info, so the best you can do is use it as one of many sources of information. For used vehicles I prefer KBB.com, since it has jived with my other research better lately.
As for 9-3 pricing info and carsdirect and Edmunds... Keep in mind that this stuff changes fast and conditions do vary widely from city to city and week to week. For example, Carsdirect had 9-3's for $130 OVER MSRP when I bought for $1800 UNDER MSRP, a nearly $2,000 difference. But there is no competition in my city. In Boston, I believe, they had them for much less...can't remember exactly...perhaps a few hundred over invoice.
And my deal at my dealer was possibly due to the time of month I bought, when volume sales incentives kicked in. I was negotiating mid month, but I was told that if the car wasn't a done contract by the end of November, that price couldn't be honored. I read car biz info sites (automotive news) and happened to read about these incentives somewhere, so I believe them. They hit a sales figure and they get a certain $ amount per car...so the last few they may be willing to make less or nothing on to get the incentives for all cars sold that month. A few days before at another dealer (same owner) I was stonewalled at MSRP, no discounts at all. It's all what they think they can get from you, and that changes from moment to moment. If the dealer isn't even close to making the incentive volume, he may charge MORE, since he knows he isn't going to make his money on incentives.
Prices vary widely even in a city. I tried at two places last year to get a '02 Silverado and could do no better than $1100 over invoice, while carsdirect.com had it at $500 over invoice. A 3rd rural dealer I checked with sold me the truck I wanted with zero negotiation, over the phone, for just $100 over invoice (and a $2002 rebate) with no fees. So prices, especially on a new design, with less established price info available to consumers can vary widely.
I had originally asked for merlot but was told there was not a 5sp with merlot/parchment in the New England area.
As far as the lights go, the bi-xenons use the same bulb for high and low beam. Low beam is achieved by a shield covering the top portion of the light. The halogen lights next to the main lights, according to my dealer, are for foreign spec cars that are allowed additional lighting. In those cars the bulb is much brighter. In the US the lights serve no function. This car is my second Saab. In my '00 9-3, the lights were always on when the engine was running, no choice.
Finally, I was also unable to program my home-link transmitter. I followed the directions in the manual and it the car seems unable to pick up the signal. Maybe this is a defect.
With the Series III radio due in the ARC/Vector, the alt. function will take stereo input from a mini-8 plug that will be wired into the center armrest console. If you look in there now, there is a plug towards the back where the jack will go.
Now I am thinking it's bug and will send it back to dealer to link it for me.