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"...Why on earth would you invite them to call by providing them with your phone number..."
The salespeople on this forum complain that so many people make idle quote requests that in order to weed out the teen with too much time on his hands they only respond to requests with valid phone numbers.
That's the catch-22 of the internet. Give a bogus number and you get no response (#1 complaint on this board). Give a valid number and risk a salesperson calling and telling you to "Come on down".
Until there is a way for the salespeople to tell the difference between the serious buyer and the bored button pusher I'm afraid these problems will persist.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
would this work: - you say, i've provided my phone number and you've verified i'm looking to purchase a vehicle. i'm planning to make a purchase within the week.
i want you to provide an Out The Door price quote via email to me for model xyz trim xyz, with optional equipment xyz which you will honor at your dealership.
i will not shop your quote with other dealers, but i expect something in writing from you since you are the internet sales manager - i know you can do this.
if you provide what i've requested including all fees, T+T+T then i'll be calling you back on the direct phone number you're going to give me.
You're amazing, sir. Please regale us with more stories of how amazing you are. We could title it "The Amazing Adventures of Tbaxxon and How He Didn't Get Screwed By Someone Trying to Make Money".
Tell us every gory detail about how you have saved money and done such an awesome job of being so much smarter than everyone else around you. After you are done telling that story, look around and ask the people who might be listening if they care at all. I think you'll find that you get a resounding "no".
The optimistic closing ratio on internet leads is 10%. People who give phone numbers appreciate a call back 95% of the time. Amazingly, some numbers given are bogus or someone else' s. We even get those who leave a bogus e-mail address. Go figure. By the way, the e-leads that you talk to on the phone have a much higher closing ratio i.e. - they are serious buyers.
The optimistic closing ratio on internet leads is 10%
That is our goal each month here. It is also our group average.
Ford Motor Company charges us for each internet lead generated by them for our trade area. We pay for allot of useless leads, bad emails, bad phone #'s. It is always real nice to pay $15 for a lead with the name Heywood Jablome on it. Ford will reimburse us for the Bogus ones if we want to jump through the hoops to do it.
We have the same program from Ford Direct. The good thing is the standard is all e-leads (good, bad or indifferent) have to be responded to in 4 business hours.
I'm surprised to hear that because my experience (last summer) with seeking eamil quotes on a Ford was simply horrible. Dealers either refused to provide a number or were not market competitive at all. I ended up buying the car the old-fashioned way.
There are several buying methods which avoid or minimize the problems you have cited.
1) Shop at dealers which offer good prices but do not negotiate. Check out Fitzmall.com. There may be others near you.
2) After selecting a car and researching its price range, make a non-negotiable offer in writing. Search “Bobst” for more details.
3) Request email offers from a large number of dealers, including some outside your geographic area. Search “Abraindrainer” for more details.
4) Ask friends for referrals to salespeople/dealers they recommend. This is a favorite of “Isellhondas”.
5) For some interesting, if controversial, negotiation techniques search “Socala4" going back 1 or 2 years.
"...if you give your phone number then you shouldn't be getting all bent out of shape when someone actually calls you..."
That would be true in cases where you have stated no objection to a phone call. The trouble is some internet shoppers don't want to talk to a salesperson they only want quotes to compare without having to travel all over town.
I have read posts where the buyer gave a valid phone number only to avoid the non-response but included a request that no one call. They wanted an E-mail response. Sure enough, they get a call saying "come on down". This is frustrating to these folks.
On the sales persons side I can see why they would like to talk to the person. All their skills center around "reading" the buyer to determine his/her needs and potential to pay. They also assume (correctly) that any figure they give will be shopped. This would make them reluctant to make their best offer to some unknown E-mail address which could very well be the dealership across town.
I've asked before how a serious buyer can get past these problems but no one yet has offered an acceptable solution. BTW, I have always made any offers in person or on the phone.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
For some interesting, if controversial, negotiation techniques search "Socal4"
LOL. The salesmen on this board still go into convulsions at the mere thought of his name. His brother "pch101" also had many interesting ideas on how to break a salesman and send them home crying to their mama.
Check out these famous brothers in the "Buying Tips" and "Purchasing Strategies" discussions. :surprise:
Dont forget that Fitzmall price does NOT include the dest. charge or $99.00 fee. Read the fine print!! However, they still give a great price, even after adding that into their "internet" price!!!!
Their prices are good, but nothing special. When I was shopping for a Subaru, 75% of email quotes I received were better than Fitzmall price.
I see many references to bobst and Abraindrainer here and their methods. Bobst, Abraindrainer and I live in the Fairfax County a Northern VA suburb of Washington DC . This is a huge metro area that includes Northern VA, DC, all of MD including the City of Baltimore. Fairfax County alone has over 4 million inhabitants. Last time I shopped for a Honda, I made 24 email requests to Honda dealers in a 60 mile radius. I received over 15 valid OTD quotes most of which were within a few hundred of each other. I bought from a dealer in Baltimore; it took only 45 minutes to get there on a Saturday.
The point I am trying to make is that Bobst and Abraindrainer methods work great in our area because there is an unlimited supply of dealers who aggressively compete with each other. In smaller markets where there are only two or three dealers to choose from, you can ask for quotes until you are blue in the face, you are not going to get very far. More than likely those dealers know each other, they know each others pricing and they will hold on to their gross. In a small market there is no such thing as a volume dealer.
The only thing I can suggest that if you are asking for quotes, further away dealers are more likely to give a good quote, because they know that the only way they could get you into their store. At least that’s what I noticed when I emailed 24 dealers, the further it was, the cheaper it got.
That's an interesting thought. I live in upstate NY but I have a brother-in-law who lives in the DC area. One of the cars I'm looking at only has two dealers in my area. I wonder if it would be cheaper to take a little vacation to the relatives, buy the car in DC and then drive it home?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
What a coincidence. This is a perfect example of a small market. My mother lives in Rochester NY. Her car died and she desperately needed something else. She didn’t feel like flying to DC and went to a local dealer to buy a corolla. The salesman gave her a decent discount off MSRP, but there was a lot of profit. It was basically here the best price we can give you, if you don’t like you know where the other Toyota dealer is on the other side of town. Even though it was an OK price, I could have saved her $1500 just by going to fitzmall.com or carmax.com.
The Fitzmall price (You are correct) does include the freight. My MISTAKE. The fine print states ( Fitzmall FLORIDA HYUNDAI) Tax, Tags, and $499.00 DELIVERY FEE "EXCLUDED!!!!!So actually, whatever their "Delivered Internet Price" is...you have to ADD $499.00 to that "DELIVERED INTERNET PRICE".
Do you mind telling me what the name of the Honda dealership that is in Baltimore area that you receieved an internet quote and also purchased from????? I am interested in a 2007 Honda CRV and so far no luck with any responses on a price. I know there are no rebates available (I THINK) but is getting near the end of their model year. It is O.K. to give the dealership name but not the salesperson's name. Thanks
I bought my Odyssey from Brown’s City Honda. I also got an excellent quote from www.heritagehondawestminster.com, O’Donnell gave me a so-so quote, Honda of Bowie quote sucked and Laurel Honda wasn’t too bad. Criswell and Sport Honda in Montgomery County were very aggressive. All the Virginia dealers sucked. Remember, I was shopping in January, the dead season. They are probably much busier now.
As far as the Fitzmall price, that’s Florida for you. Florida dealers are notorious for ridicules junk fees. In MD junk fees are caped at $99.
Yeah, you are correct. Almost all the Florida dealers want that good old $499.00 or $599.00 "dealer fee". It's almost as though they are united. So far, I have been able to "renegotiate" as I am ready to sign and insist that in order to close the deal...that they give me and additional $499 or $599 on my trade-in..Let's face it, I usually trade every three years and my cars or SUV's are garage kept, accident free, low mileage, and all dealer serviced. So....they probaby are making a killing on that end of the deal anyway. Thanks for the Honda dealer info... NORTSR
I worked our internet department for awhile. I simply hated it. When you have a closing ratio of around 8-10%, you just start to simply lose interest. I diligently tried to follow up with all leads, but the time invested just didn't seem to pay off. I figured that there needed to be a department completely dedicated to it.
I started to see patterns forming from the people who were real buyers and from people who would actually buy from me. Here's what I found. If the people were in my area, my odds of closing them were much higher. If there was a phone number on the lead, then the odds were much higher. If there was a specific vehicle picked out.... again the odds were much higher. Full name? You guessed it.
Anything that did not meet these criteria were immediately thrown out. I did not have the time or energy to follow up with leads that simply weren't complete. When you get a lead with just the name M. R., no phone # and they were from a county 2 hours away with 4 dealers between us and them?? I'm not interested.
Did I lose some sales over this? I'm sure I did. Was I interested in wading through the much to find out if I was wrong or not? No way.
Bottom line, it takes a special person to work the internet. I'm not that special guy. I like my folks walking in the door so I can establish some sort of rapport with them. The internet was way too impersonal for me.
-Moo
Edit: I would also send out an initial e-mail to pick out a specific vehicle. If I didn't hear back from the lead on that initial e-mail, then I dumped it. If a phone number was included in the e-mail that was bad, I dumped it. If I called the number provided and noone called back. I dumped it. So many leads. So little time.
Our e-leads get passed around to all 4 of us sales people. We do a follow-up every couple of days for at least 2 weeks before we drop them due to lack of interest. I get a kick out of shoppers who say they come in when things are slow. I usually have 20 or so prospects to follow up with and 10-30 owners to stay in touch with daily. Plus phone, e-leads, and the best - showroom clients.
We have our internet leads spread out among our three guys. We all follow up a little differently. I send an email right away thanking them for their interest and introducing myself. At the bottom of the email I say I will give them a call later to follow up.
The vast majority of those leads go no where. Many of them have fake phone numbers or the phone number is their friend's and they are screwing with them. Sometimes I get fake emails too. :surprise: :mad:
The people that I call almost never answer the phone and if they do they can't talk now but PROMISE to call me back later. In the past few months only one ever has.
If I don't get any response after a couple emails and a couple of phone calls then I trash the lead.
We spent a lot of money and hired a firm that did internet lead training. We developed templates for the first 4-5 responses (which we can customize) and make sure we try the phone as well. We actually will go for at least 14 days - sometimes longer before we can drop them. Our closing rate has increase dramatically. I am delivering one later today that said he bought only because of our internet responses.
I have a couple of templates that I developed on my own that used to work very well. Lately they have not been and I am have been writing up a new note for every lead.
I can't even remember the last time we sold a car over the internet.
I do 1-3 internet deals a month, and the majority of our phone leads have found us on the net. I guess the 2 biggest thing I found out were be persistent (even with obvious bogus so they say), and always ask a pertinent question.
Ahh well if you count people that saw the car on the net and then called in or saw our website or some of our web advertising then the percentage goes up a lot.
For people that only contact over the net though our internet business has collapsed compared to what it was a year ago.
Theres a car that i've seen on one dealers website that i've been speaking with, I was told by the salesperson that I could secure the car by leaving my credit number with them until I get to the dealership, has anyone had a car held by credit card?
Yes, I do it constantly when the numbers have been agreed upon. If you really want the vehicle and there aren't a bunch out there, how would it hurt to hold it with a CC?
If you don't want it, then just reverse the charges. Easy peasy.
My husband recently used Edmunds.com to simultaneously solicit quotes from multiple dealers since the dealers in our area couldn't order the vehicle he wanted with the options he wanted.
He found a dealer 800 miles away that would order exactly what he wanted. So, tonight we're flying to that city so that tomorrow we can get the car and then drive it home.
My husband put a security deposit of $1000 required to order the car from Toyota. My dear husband agreed to the price the dealer quoted him without negotiating.
My question is, even though we've ordered the car already, is it possible to still negotiate? My husband said you don't negotiate when it's a custom order. When we get there tomorrow, is it possible for me to negotiate still or am I stuck with the price my husband agreed upon when he ordered the car?
1. Did he sign a purchase order or anything agreeing to the price?
2. Was the deposit non-refundable?
3. You might go and try to negotiate, but what if they say no, will you still buy the car at the price or possibly be out the $1000 not to mention airfare home?
With all due respect, your husband found a vehicle that noone else has. They know you are flying 800 miles to get it. Would YOU sell an item for less money than normal if you knew you were the only one that had it?
This is a simple supply and demand issue. Pay the price that your husband is comfortable with and enjoy the new vehicle!
"...since the dealers in our area couldn't order the vehicle he wanted..."
Just curious, why couldn't the local dealers order the car the way he wanted it? If the dealer 800 miles away could I would think the local guy could also.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
that you couldn't custom order Toyotas anyway. Don't they all just come in whatever Spec Toyota wants and the dealers have to take what they are allocated?
My husband put a security deposit of $1000 required to order the car from Toyota. My dear husband agreed to the price the dealer quoted him without negotiating.
I wonder if there have been other customers ask about this car and be told "No we can't offer that for sale, it is sold already
It looks like my reply may be a little too late for you, but maybe it will help someone else.
You CAN negotiate on a custom order. My husband and I used www.CarSqueeze.com and ordered a 2008 Chevy Impala. It wasn't even on the lots yet, but we were able to get it at invoice. You just have to be flexible - we just had to wait for it to be ordered. Hope this helps someone....">
I just have to ask you...your husband AGREED to a price and by doing so, he basically "shook hands" on the deal over the phone at whatever the price was..right?
So, you ask if it's possible to negotiate the already agreed on price once you arrive there??
Respectifully, I ask...suppose you arrived and they wanted more money? Or suppose they told you they had found another buyer willing to pay more?
Respectifully, I ask...suppose you arrived and they wanted more money? Or suppose they told you they had found another buyer willing to pay more?
What would your reaction be then?
I couldn't agree more.
Last week an Internet customer and I agreed on terms, she put a deposit, and made an appointment. Next day she emails saying that she is not happy with the terms - 48 months lease, and would like to get her deposit back,come see the car and talk more about the price. I basically told her not to bother: I expect my clients to treat me in the same way I treat them: if I say the payment is $199 a month - this is what it's going to be, I am not going to try and get mroe money once they come in. so in the same way - I do not re-negotiate deals once we "shoock hands", in writing, in person, or over the phone.
Comments
The salespeople on this forum complain that so many people make idle quote requests that in order to weed out the teen with too much time on his hands they only respond to requests with valid phone numbers.
That's the catch-22 of the internet. Give a bogus number and you get no response (#1 complaint on this board). Give a valid number and risk a salesperson calling and telling you to "Come on down".
Until there is a way for the salespeople to tell the difference between the serious buyer and the bored button pusher I'm afraid these problems will persist.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
i want you to provide an Out The Door price quote via email to me for model xyz trim xyz, with optional equipment xyz which you will honor at your dealership.
i will not shop your quote with other dealers, but i expect something in writing from you since you are the internet sales manager - i know you can do this.
if you provide what i've requested including all fees, T+T+T then i'll be calling you back on the direct phone number you're going to give me.
thanks for your call.
Tell us every gory detail about how you have saved money and done such an awesome job of being so much smarter than everyone else around you. After you are done telling that story, look around and ask the people who might be listening if they care at all. I think you'll find that you get a resounding "no".
-Moo
The point really was that if you give your phone number then you shouldn't be getting all bent out of shape when someone actually calls you.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
That is our goal each month here. It is also our group average.
Ford Motor Company charges us for each internet lead generated by them for our trade area. We pay for allot of useless leads, bad emails, bad phone #'s. It is always real nice to pay $15 for a lead with the name Heywood Jablome on it. Ford will reimburse us for the Bogus ones if we want to jump through the hoops to do it.
1) Shop at dealers which offer good prices but do not negotiate. Check out Fitzmall.com. There may be others near you.
2) After selecting a car and researching its price range, make a non-negotiable offer in writing. Search “Bobst” for more details.
3) Request email offers from a large number of dealers, including some outside your geographic area. Search “Abraindrainer” for more details.
4) Ask friends for referrals to salespeople/dealers they recommend. This is a favorite of “Isellhondas”.
5) For some interesting, if controversial, negotiation techniques search “Socala4" going back 1 or 2 years.
That would be true in cases where you have stated no objection to a phone call. The trouble is some internet shoppers don't want to talk to a salesperson they only want quotes to compare without having to travel all over town.
I have read posts where the buyer gave a valid phone number only to avoid the non-response but included a request that no one call. They wanted an E-mail response. Sure enough, they get a call saying "come on down". This is frustrating to these folks.
On the sales persons side I can see why they would like to talk to the person. All their skills center around "reading" the buyer to determine his/her needs and potential to pay. They also assume (correctly) that any figure they give will be shopped. This would make them reluctant to make their best offer to some unknown E-mail address which could very well be the dealership across town.
I've asked before how a serious buyer can get past these problems but no one yet has offered an acceptable solution. BTW, I have always made any offers in person or on the phone.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
LOL. The salesmen on this board still go into convulsions at the mere thought of his name. His brother "pch101" also had many interesting ideas on how to break a salesman and send them home crying to their mama.
Check out these famous brothers in the "Buying Tips" and "Purchasing Strategies" discussions. :surprise:
Unless they're actually one in the same
Quote from Fitzmall.com
Freight, MD. Inspection Included.
Tax, Tags, Title, Optional Dealer Processing Charge $99 Excluded
Their prices are good, but nothing special. When I was shopping for a Subaru, 75% of email quotes I received were better than Fitzmall price.
I see many references to bobst and Abraindrainer here and their methods. Bobst, Abraindrainer and I live in the Fairfax County a Northern VA suburb of Washington DC . This is a huge metro area that includes Northern VA, DC, all of MD including the City of Baltimore. Fairfax County alone has over 4 million inhabitants. Last time I shopped for a Honda, I made 24 email requests to Honda dealers in a 60 mile radius. I received over 15 valid OTD quotes most of which were within a few hundred of each other. I bought from a dealer in Baltimore; it took only 45 minutes to get there on a Saturday.
The point I am trying to make is that Bobst and Abraindrainer methods work great in our area because there is an unlimited supply of dealers who aggressively compete with each other. In smaller markets where there are only two or three dealers to choose from, you can ask for quotes until you are blue in the face, you are not going to get very far. More than likely those dealers know each other, they know each others pricing and they will hold on to their gross. In a small market there is no such thing as a volume dealer.
The only thing I can suggest that if you are asking for quotes, further away dealers are more likely to give a good quote, because they know that the only way they could get you into their store. At least that’s what I noticed when I emailed 24 dealers, the further it was, the cheaper it got.
That's an interesting thought. I live in upstate NY but I have a brother-in-law who lives in the DC area. One of the cars I'm looking at only has two dealers in my area. I wonder if it would be cheaper to take a little vacation to the relatives, buy the car in DC and then drive it home?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Actually, Fitzmall internet pricing DOES include freight, and if you are buying out of state they don't charge you the $99 fee.
If you want a quote with no phone calls and they insist on having your phone number then find someone to get a quote from.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
It is O.K. to give the dealership name but not the salesperson's name.
Thanks
As far as the Fitzmall price, that’s Florida for you. Florida dealers are notorious for ridicules junk fees. In MD junk fees are caped at $99.
Good luck.
Thanks for the Honda dealer info... NORTSR
That's the way I see it too. But there are those who simply don't want phone calls.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I started to see patterns forming from the people who were real buyers and from people who would actually buy from me. Here's what I found. If the people were in my area, my odds of closing them were much higher. If there was a phone number on the lead, then the odds were much higher. If there was a specific vehicle picked out.... again the odds were much higher. Full name? You guessed it.
Anything that did not meet these criteria were immediately thrown out. I did not have the time or energy to follow up with leads that simply weren't complete. When you get a lead with just the name M. R., no phone # and they were from a county 2 hours away with 4 dealers between us and them?? I'm not interested.
Did I lose some sales over this? I'm sure I did. Was I interested in wading through the much to find out if I was wrong or not? No way.
Bottom line, it takes a special person to work the internet. I'm not that special guy. I like my folks walking in the door so I can establish some sort of rapport with them. The internet was way too impersonal for me.
-Moo
Edit: I would also send out an initial e-mail to pick out a specific vehicle. If I didn't hear back from the lead on that initial e-mail, then I dumped it. If a phone number was included in the e-mail that was bad, I dumped it. If I called the number provided and noone called back. I dumped it. So many leads. So little time.
Due to the fact that there is a low closing percentage on internet leads and the fact that they tend to be special customers, I pass.
I like to follow up with my own sold customers and grab anything else that I can TALK to. Internet sales? Not for me.
-Moo
The vast majority of those leads go no where. Many of them have fake phone numbers or the phone number is their friend's and they are screwing with them. Sometimes I get fake emails too. :surprise: :mad:
The people that I call almost never answer the phone and if they do they can't talk now but PROMISE to call me back later. In the past few months only one ever has.
If I don't get any response after a couple emails and a couple of phone calls then I trash the lead.
I can't even remember the last time we sold a car over the internet.
For people that only contact over the net though our internet business has collapsed compared to what it was a year ago.
If you don't want it, then just reverse the charges. Easy peasy.
-Moo
My husband recently used Edmunds.com to simultaneously solicit quotes from multiple dealers since the dealers in our area couldn't order the vehicle he wanted with the options he wanted.
He found a dealer 800 miles away that would order exactly what he wanted. So, tonight we're flying to that city so that tomorrow we can get the car and then drive it home.
My husband put a security deposit of $1000 required to order the car from Toyota. My dear husband agreed to the price the dealer quoted him without negotiating.
My question is, even though we've ordered the car already, is it possible to still negotiate? My husband said you don't negotiate when it's a custom order. When we get there tomorrow, is it possible for me to negotiate still or am I stuck with the price my husband agreed upon when he ordered the car?
Thanks.
JJS
1. Did he sign a purchase order or anything agreeing to the price?
2. Was the deposit non-refundable?
3. You might go and try to negotiate, but what if they say no, will you still buy the car at the price or possibly be out the $1000 not to mention airfare home?
This is a simple supply and demand issue. Pay the price that your husband is comfortable with and enjoy the new vehicle!
-Moo
Just curious, why couldn't the local dealers order the car the way he wanted it? If the dealer 800 miles away could I would think the local guy could also.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I wonder if there have been other customers ask about this car and be told "No we can't offer that for sale, it is sold already
You CAN negotiate on a custom order. My husband and I used www.CarSqueeze.com and ordered a 2008 Chevy Impala. It wasn't even on the lots yet, but we were able to get it at invoice. You just have to be flexible - we just had to wait for it to be ordered. Hope this helps someone....">
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Any time you expect people to act in a certain way you are asking for disappointment.
I just have to ask you...your husband AGREED to a price and by doing so, he basically "shook hands" on the deal over the phone at whatever the price was..right?
So, you ask if it's possible to negotiate the already agreed on price once you arrive there??
Respectifully, I ask...suppose you arrived and they wanted more money? Or suppose they told you they had found another buyer willing to pay more?
What would your reaction be then?
What would your reaction be then?
I couldn't agree more.
Last week an Internet customer and I agreed on terms, she put a deposit, and made an appointment.
Next day she emails saying that she is not happy with the terms - 48 months lease, and would like to get her deposit back,come see the car and talk more about the price.
I basically told her not to bother: I expect my clients to treat me in the same way I treat them: if I say the payment is $199 a month - this is what it's going to be, I am not going to try and get mroe money once they come in.
so in the same way - I do not re-negotiate deals once we "shoock hands", in writing, in person, or over the phone.
I was brought up differently.