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Maybe some will want the body packages and the ASPEC buyers will be there for those who just want a newer looking or cooler looking car. All the performance stuff anyone can do anywhere without much help. The funnest thing of owning a G has been minor tweaks and little money that create small incrimental gains that I can notice and tweak. Do one and then do another down the road while appreciating each tweak on its own is my philosophy. I would suggest most of us would rather buy the car without a perf pack and make the mods ourselves. The ZHP is an exception as it offers some big changes to a luxo car to get it to be alot differet.
For 200 bucks I added 10-14 Hp with an intake. For another 120 I added no real gains with my Hyper Grounding Kit but added much smoothness and better responsiveness while eliminating the gurgle the intake created. For another 450 I bought a Crawford Z car intake plenum which adds 20hp. So for less than 1k I got about 20-25 HP at peak, increased the sound quality of the motor, get better gas mileage (4-5 mpg), have a smoother idle and start up and I don't have the HP drop at 6000.
If they offered a $6000 nismo package I' say no, do the perf mods myself and save $5000 on body kit bolt ons that will never work out as well as if bolted on at the plant in the first place.
Now I belive I am running Z power at the crank anyway - weight diff is about 150#. Anyone see the Z in the lastest C&D. They got a 13.8 1/4 running stock at 102 or so. Everytime they test the FM seems faster and faster! Break in alone is good for 20hp I'd bet with the VQ.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I'm not sure why Infiniti is nixing Nismo, especially since they're going for the Japanese BMW image (everything RWD or AWD, handling a priority, etc.)
Most boy racer kids won't be able to afford it anyway.
325i, 5-Speed, Metallic Paint, Leather, PP, SP, Harmon Kardon: $36,595
330i, 6-Speed, Metallic Paint, PP, SP, Xenon: $41,570
330i, 6-Speed, Metallic Paint, ZHP, Leather, Moon Roof, Xenon: 43,470
So, in the "As I would buy it" configuration, the 330i comes at a $4,975 premium. Fairly substantial, however, IMHO, the considerable power gain, coupled with the 6-Speed transmission, bigger brakes, and bigger wheels and tires easily justify the price.
Then there is the 330i to 330i ZHP difference of only $1,900, a no-brainer on a car listing at over $40K.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Things are getting complicated at Nismo, Nissan's motorsports and tuning arm. So, far, the U.S. distributor has been shipped more than 700 sets of high performance suspension, wheel, and exhaust packages for the 350Z. And ideally, the company would like to send the same sport goodies for the Infiniti G35 coupe (known as the Nissan Skyline coupe in Japan).Because, hey, this Nismo Skyline developed together with Sony's Gran Turismo people looks pretty damn good. The problem is that in the U.S. the car is an Infiniti, not a Nissan, as it is in Japan, and the U.S. marketing types feel that Nismo parts might not suit the upscale brand image.
3 Series still lags in reliability. G35 better but not quite there. TL too new to tell.
A. CTS = Caddy = I'd rather be dead than own a GM. seriously, they could offer a 600 hp engine in the best handling chassis ever and I will not own it. Or a Ford.
B. 530i 6 speed = big, and a sticker with sports package and xenon of 49k. That'd be 49k for a slower, less responsive, larger car.
C. 545i 6 speed = is it even out yet? = 59k without any options.
59k or 39k...hmm, that's an easy call. Yes, my car had a 43k msrp. Let's assume you can get 4k off a 545i so it'd still be 55k. 16k difference?
The CTS has one of the worst reliability records in its class, so far. What makes you think the CTS-V will be any better? A lot of good 400 horses will do you when the car is sitting in a service bay. Any reasonable thinking person would think twice before plunking down 50 large for a car whose reliability record will never come close to Japanese standards.
Plus, on a personal note, I can't stand the look of it (inside or out).
It's an American car for one. Secondly, it's a GM. From there I'd move on to the look at me Batman meets Legos exterior, and Sears-grade interior. I haven't driven the CTS-V yet but given the way the original CTS was a lumbering, wallowing boat I flat out do not believe any review written about it. The mags praised that trash heap when it hit the street and I gotta say handling wise it didn't hold a candle to any Japanese or German in the class. From the IS to the A4 on they all outclassed the CTS in handling.
Some day I'll drive one but even if it's the greatest driving vehicle I've been in (which I'll admit to) I won't buy one simply because it's a GM.
The caddy is compelling but with chassis hopping launches and some quality issues it's not the m5 beater it could someday become. Angular is hard to take but bangle gives that to us now too..
I never gave two cruds about ford but the GT sure is unaffordably cool and the Shelby Cobra? Very interested to see what becomes of that. Hopefully NOT limited editioned and 40k premiumed. Too bad the 30-40 k cars from ford blow
"Lumbering wallowing boat?" BWAHAHA!!! A sillier statement I have not read in some time.
So, have we driven a CTS for ourselves? I'm guessing not.
Here's the bottom line... the CTS-V will annhilate any one of these also rans. It's in a complete other world as a performance car. And I hope you didn't pay $43K for that weak BMW... you got screwed if you did.
"they could offer a 600 hp engine in the best handling chassis ever and I will not own it. Or a Ford."
A poseur if there ever was one.
You might not want to check out the latest CR. They pound MB, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, and VW for poor reliability. And they cite the A6 and 7 Series as repeat offenders. They list the 7 Series ('97-'99 and '00-'02) and X5 ('00-'02) as used cars to avoid.
The 3 Series now has average reliability. Which is an improvement(!), so they can now recommend it. Is that damning with faint praise?
But BMW can't hold a candle to Infiniti or Lexus.
Not sure why anyone would want a $40-43K 330i instead of an M3. They are too close in price to favor the loaded 330i.
"Not sure why you have such an animus against Detroit. I really don't care where a good car is built. I just try to buy affordable fun cars."
Absolutely.... sometimes I think my goal is to have owned one of everything before I'm through.
The Americans win 2 points over the Germans in CR and now the Germans are spewing out "far more" unreliable crap. Typical over stating of any and everything as usual of GM rhetoric.
Why are we even talking about the CTS-V here? Of course it will easily whip all these sedans at the track.
M
Isn't the CTS and its variants a "Near Luxury Performance Sedan?"
"The Americans win 2 points over the Germans in CR and now the Germans are spewing out "far more" unreliable crap."
Power's got 'em a lot worse than that... almost all of the Germans are now under the below average line, some close to bottom feeders.
Sooo.... Is Chrysler spewing out crap before an excuse for them doing it now? DC's certainly had plenty of time to get them straightened out.
GO GET 'EM RIEZ!
I clearly wrote I have driven a CTS. A manual in fact. It was priced at nearly 40k and god it was awful. Every corner the front end would dip and the car would rock and undulate on entry and exit from said corner. I've not experienced a worse handling combatant in the near luxury segment. There isn't a German or Japanese competitor - including the ES - that should be worried. When the salesperson asked how I liked it, I straightforwardly told him the handling was insanely soft and not near the levels of refinement in German sport sedans. His intelligent rejoinder, "This is a Caddy." Yeah, some things never change.
Here's the bottom line... the CTS-V will annhilate any one of these also rans. It's in a complete other world as a performance car. And I hope you didn't pay $43K for that weak BMW... you got screwed if you did.
I never pay sticker. But then again, it shocks me people would pay 35k, let alone 40-45k for a Vette. To each his own. To me the Caddy is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
A poseur if there ever was one.
That makes no sense. I'm a poseur because I refuse to line the coffers of companies I want to go out of business? I'd say if I bought from Ford/GM I'd lose tremendous face as I have lobbied hard for them to go under. And will not go back on my word.
The 5.9 V8 has been great. The Chrysler V12 that has been at the auto shows looks very interesting.
I also own an 04 TL which my wife drives and I have always owned Acura passenger cars.
I think the numbers on quality in CR show that America is getting there. Many of the Japanese vehicles are made here also. I would always but American if I could but they are not there yet.
To each his own. It's American. I will not put my money there.
You might not want to check out the latest CR. They pound MB, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, and VW for poor reliability. And they cite the A6 and 7 Series as repeat offenders. They list the 7 Series ('97-'99 and '00-'02) and X5 ('00-'02) as used cars to avoid.
With good reason. I never said Germans build reliable cars. Never.
The 3 Series now has average reliability. Which is an improvement(!), so they can now recommend it. Is that damning with faint praise?
I didn't buy my car for reliability and frankly knew going in my BMW would probably be troublesome (which it hasn't been). Didn't much care as I bought the car I felt the best driving.
But BMW can't hold a candle to Infiniti or Lexus.
For reliability, that's true. But that played no part in my buying decision. I've owned other German cars that were a nightmare. I'll keep coming back as they're just more entertaining.
Not sure why anyone would want a $40-43K 330i instead of an M3. They are too close in price to favor the loaded 330i.
1. M3 is a 2 door. I will not own a 2 door unless it's a convertible. If there were a 4 door M I'd buy it.
2. M3 with the bare essentials (Xenon and Moonroof) stickers at 50k. 50k for a car that's a design I don't like and doesn't offer the utility I desire? No thanks.
So blueguydotcom, I see you have an American flag next to your name. Are you an American?
Blue,
My question is, if your beloved Beemer starts giving you the same headaches that your VW gave you, would bad mouth BMW as much you do VW/Audi?. What would be next?...Mercedes?.
Blueguydotcom is nothing more than a poseur who will chase the prettiest foreign hood ornament.
He obviously doesn't really care about quality or performance, since he has clearly stated that he won't buy certain makes even if they are clearly superior in these areas.
I also don't believe he's ever been in a CTS, since his spew is completely contrary to every professional review.
"But then again, it shocks me people would pay 35k, let alone 40-45k for a Vette."
More reinforcement - Blueguydotcom doesn't really care about performance, only the hood ornament... he just doesn't get it.
I probably would never buy a Mercedes. As for BMW going bad, I've actually done my best to talk people out of buying BMWs. ask my bro-in-law. I took him out to look at cars one weekend and when I was positive he was going for the 325i I made it crystal clear that BMWs aren't very well made, have bad electricals and in my experience really bad transmissions. I did everything I could to scare him back toward Infiniti/Acura/Lexus. Didn't work as he bought a 325i.
Should my BMW go really bad - like my Jetta - it will confirm what I expect of it. So far it's been lightyears more reliable and troublefree than the Jetta though.
CTS-V @ 400hp
ACCELERATION: Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 2.2
40 mph: 2.9
50 mph: 4.3
60 mph: 5.2
70 mph: 6.8
80 mph: 8.2
90 mph: 9.9
100 mph: 12.2
110 mph: 14.5
120 mph: 17.1
130 mph: 20.3
140 mph: 25.5
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.7
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 10.3
50-70 mph: 10.0
Standing 1/4-mile: 13.7 sec @ 107 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 163 mph
Stock TL @ 270hp
ACCELERATION: (Seconds)
Zero to 30 mph 2.2
40 mph 3.3
50 mph 4.4
60 mph 5.7
70 mph 7.6
80 mph 9.4
90 mph 11.9
100 mph 14.6
110 mph 17.8
120 mph 21.8
130 mph 28.6
Street start, 5-60 mph 6.3
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph 10.4
50-70 mph 10.3
Standing 1/4-mile 14.4 sec @ 99 mph
Top speed (governor limited) 152 mph
You would think that with 130 more horses this Caddy would perform that much better than a stock TL...and for $8,000+ more...I think not.
I am like your bro-in-law. Everybody told me to stay away from Audi, and got an A4 anyway, it is one of the best cars I've ever ownned. (knock on wood) have had no problems with it.
on the CTS...
Never driven it, I have nothing against it, except that IMO it is ugly as sin.
Thanks.
That's funny. Pat generally doesn't roll with personal attacks. Lets leave it at I drove just about every car available before buying my vehicle and I bought entirely based on fitting my needs and desires - speed, handling, RWD, manual, free maintenance, 4 doors.
He obviously doesn't really care about quality or performance, since he has clearly stated that he won't buy certain makes even if they are clearly superior in these areas.
A. I don't care about quality. You're right. I've owned American, Japanese and German cars so obviously quality isn't the main consideration when buying.
B. Why is this a tough concept? If one has sworn to do something then one stands by it. I've sworn never to buy an American car. I either compromise my integrity break my word or I follow through. I choose to stand by my word: no cars with American nameplates.
I also don't believe he's ever been in a CTS, since his spew is completely contrary to every professional review.
May 3, 2002 at Marvin K Brown Cadillac, I took a CTS for a test drive consisting of surface streets and freeways:
blueguydotcom "Infiniti G35 vs. BMW 330i" May 4, 2002 2:48pm
The car was a mess, much like the dealership.
More reinforcement - Blueguydotcom doesn't really care about performance, only the hood ornament... he just doesn't get it.
If that were so, I'd have bought a Vette as isn't that the ultimate car for people want desperately to be noticed - beyond the Humm-me 2? Forgive me for not wanting a vehicle that cries, to me, middle aged, balding man with a penchant for gold chains.
You think a TL can take an M5 on the track? A CTS-V can. This ain't drag racing... go buy a muscle car with a stick axle if you want to do that.
If the CTS-V raced a TL it would need radar to find it again...
Correct, but so can an EVO for $20K less. So what? Actually, I'd like to see a race between an M5 and a CTS-V by professional drivers. That would be interesting, instead of comparing numbers on paper.
"The CTS-V with all it's quirks and angles is possibly the best bang for buck out there and it eat's similary priced BMW's alive in germanys proving track. "
Except it's a dead heat to 60 for the three series, which can get there in 5.6, except for the M3, which can get there in about 5. Seeing as how the V has over a hundred horse advantage to the 3 series, so what? Given the M5 has a half second advantage for the same hp, so what? I'm not dissing the V, but if all you want is speed and EVO for $20K less is the ticket. If all you are looking at is hp/$, the V is the ticket.
From an engineering standpoint, the CTS-V is a dog and the CTS is a dog with fleas.
Gee, have you put a TL on a track with a CTS-V? No one I know of has... let's throw out a few 0-60 numbers and make some silly assumptions.
"From an engineering standpoint, the CTS-V is a dog and the CTS is a dog with fleas."
What does that make the M5 then?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well, it's a first generation product and at least Caddy put it out there. Hope Lexus and Infiniti have the guts to do the same. Acura can't really make a serious performance version based on the TL if they keep making it FWD.
Then you're the worst car reviewer in the world, because no professional reviewer agrees with you. Of course with statements like "seriously, they could offer a 600 hp engine in the best handling chassis ever and I will not own it", there is zero credibility there anyway.
People that buy the supersedans are not Joe car buyer. A lot of them do get raced.
Actually, the differnce could very well be just a few thousand dollars if you've got a bunch of GM card points.
"Most people are not cross shopping these cars."
If the diff is only a few bucks, why wouldn't you?
You are right, they are not Joe car buyer. They are Joe car buyer with a lot of money...but just because they have the money to spend does not make them track racers. Anyway, if I was serious about racing I wouldn't buy a luxury sedan anyway since, leather, nav systems, stereos, A/C units add weight to a car and would take away from the car's performance.
And, you get to learn that you're not really that good of a driver. ;-)
What part of the equation are you missing. The cars are not in any way going to perform similarly except for 0-30 maybe. once the V get rolling it will make the the extra 15k over the TL seem trivial. The fact you think a TL can even be compared to a pushrod v-8 also put in a vette does not say much for anything other than your undying devotion to the TL.
I admit a severe distate for American styling, engineering, marketing and everything else associated with American cars. I'm biased and prefer foreign cars.
Golly, if a guy in a magazine - you know the organizations that sell advertising to the companies whose products they review - say it's so, then it must be. What ever happened to thinking and experiencing for yourself?
What some paid off hack has to say about a vehicle has no bearing on how I will react to the same vehicle.
Think for yourself...
So why exactly should we believe anything you post about them?
Considering the car companies all advertise in the mags and I've seen unflattering reviews of just about every make.... just where is the bias?
It must all be a big conspiracy!!