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Comments
Ed
Dave: was that a custom Taurus wagon with the SHO engine? We actually saw one of those at the SCOA covered bridge tour, it was pretty cool.
The XC90's back seat doesn't look very roomy. I peeked at it in one of those photos.
The Aerio is so tall and short that it ends up looking a little dorky. I'm not sure guys that motocross are gonna fall for that shape.
I don't like that BMW concept. In fact, I haven't liked anything they've shown for a while. It looks like a Kia or a Suzuki, not a BMW. They fell into the creased lines trend. At least it's not as ugly as the 7 series.
-juice
My educated guess is that pricing will start at 1-2% over invoice right off the bat. That's only $200 to $400 or so. Those prices will hold up for a few months, and we'll gradually get down to right around invoice.
I would wait. They are adding content, and I bet the actual invoice price is no more than $400 or so higher than the 2002. Unless you are already stretching your budget, that is.
Travis is the MotoX guy that jumped over the SX concept for Suzuki. Are you thinking of Ramana Lageman, the Sri Lankan who took over the Group N car for Karl Schieble?
-juice
He jumped over it, too.
Ed
-juice
-Brian
<< I don't like that BMW concept. In fact, I haven't liked anything they've shown for a while. It looks like a Kia or a Suzuki, not a BMW. They fell into the creased lines trend. >>
No, it was a plain (no frills) beat up "family" wagon with a "next to reckless" driver in it. If you can visualize the plate "2FAZZ4U" on that wagon doing about 40mph (thinking it's going 70mph) on a 30mph flowing traffic . I thought it was funny.
-Dave
-juice
Bob
-juice
Bob
By itself, I don't think it's ugly. It would make a really cute Suzuki. I just imagine Bimmers would have more substance. I guess this is their sub-compact, so maybe they want for it to feel playful.
But I say the Mini already does that job.
-juice
That's one of the styling elements I like the most about it, that sculpted crease.
I'm happy to see BMW considering a smaller line of cars. I dearly remember the beloved old 2002 model of the early '70s, which is what the 3-Series evolved into. Back then the 2002 was an "affordable.," and among the first small sports sedans. In a very real sense, the WRX is sort a modern-day BMW 2002.
Bob
Everyone is doing creases. Soap bar shapes are out. Ford calls it New Edge, GM calls it Art & Science, but in the end they all mean creased edges around rounded panels.
-juice
As to everyone doing it, yeah that's probably true; yet some do it better than others. But again, the "crease" has been a feature of automotive styling since virtually day one. There just seems to be more focus on it now.
Bob
-juice
Hey, so the Cafe now gets a lot of traffic, but the topics are pretty similar to what we used to post over in "Meet the Members". What's the purpose of having "Meet the Members" anymore?
Ken
You guys recall the Camaro ads with the Big Gulps, and the class rock music? Those were pretty funny.
Ken: this topic is for all the off topic banter, and that's means lots of stuff with us. MTM is about Subarus and their owners, this covers a broader topic range.
-juice
BTW, notice how all the traffic in the other Subaru forums has died down, now that only "Subaru issues" are to be discussed? That either means that there is little new "news" about Subies, or there are few "items/problems" that need to be addressed. I think both are true.
Bob
Future models was always the hot topic, because we talk about every type of car, not just Subarus (1% market share, remember). Now that we talk about that stuff here, this is the hot topic.
I expect that when the 2003 Legacy is finally shown, Future Models will get busy again.
-juice
First pic I've seen. It's a total GMC Envoy clone, nothing at all original about it. It gets the XL wheelbase, 275hp GM I6, optional 285hp V8.
But - nothing you can't get from GM in a TrailBlazer XL. Pure badge engineering. The only appeal is the 10/120 warranty.
-juice
GM has to add a full 16" in both wheelbase and length, in order to add the third row seating. The Explorer, Mountaineer and Aviator are all able to get fold-down third row seating in the same wheelbase as the standard-length TrailBlazer. You can thank the IRS that the Explorer, etc., for this much better, and much more efficient packaging.
At 129" for the wheelbase, the breakover angle on the Ascender, et al, must be miserable. The turning circle must be Suburban-like too.
I mean really, if I were considering a vehicle with a 129" wheelbase, I'd opt for the 130" wheelbase Suburban, and get the real thing. Even the full-size '03 Expedition only has a wheelbase of 119," and it has fold-down rear seats too. The full-size 3-seat Tahoe has a wheelbase of 115." GM really blew it on this one.
I also agree with that link, in that this new Ascender will be the final nail in Isuzu's coffin.
Bob
I wonder if the 3rd row seat will have more leg room than the Explorer? I remember the Rendezvous was sort of tight, but the Explorer was adequate. The Pilot may set the standard for space utilization, though, it looks huge.
Ascendor is going to be a porker. Best to get the V8 to handle all that weight.
Styling copied GMC almost exactly. I'm shocked Isuzu didn't do something to differentiate it. Or GM didn't let them. Pity.
-juice
The short TrailBlazer has a nice engine and plenty going for it, but GM is ensuring the death of Isuzu by only offering the most truck-like entry in the segment, and to top it off it won't even be good off road! *gasp*
-juice
It took forever to load, and I gave up. Does it have the same 4WD as the Envoy and TrailBlazer?
Bob
The V8 is from the GM pickups. Auto has just 4 speeds. On-demand 4WD? Is that TOD? I bet it isn't.
Have to say something nice - turn signals in side mirrros are neat.
So GM is basically just using Isuzu dealers to sell identical GM trucks?
-juice
http://poseur.4x4.org/
http://www.ucsusa.org/transportation/greener.SUVs.html
I thought "SUV tipping" was funny.
-Dave
Other than that it gets the 10/120 warranty and 3/50K BtoB
That V8 specific engine may win over a lot of the people who don't want to jump up to a full-sized truck but still want 3 rows of seats.
4wd is the crappy one from the GMs.
-mike
Bob
Bob
o It was produced at SIA or Isuzu in Japan
o It had up-right seating like the Full-size vehicles and the Trooper
o Decent sized OEM moonroof
o TOD or similar "advanded" 4wd system rather than the same old garbage
The bumpers and ground clearance can be fixed (bumpers cause the worst angles of approach/departure of any SUV in class)
-mike
But I have to admit that I am intrigued by the concept. Are any of you owners (or know someone who is) in a vacation/trade program, on either a 'weeks' or 'points' basis???
Steve
Bob
http://www.industryclick.com/microsites/index.asp?srid=10430&pageid=1794&siteid=26&magazineid=50&srtype=1
I do most of my driving on city streets and highways around Atlanta. Occasionally I'll head up to the hills of N. Georgia, N. Carolina, or Tennesee. I might be hauling another passenger, some mountain bikes, and/or climbing and camping gear.
Thanks in advance for any information and thoughts.
If you are looking for a 4-speed auto, then the H6 will be a better match. Also, if you plan on towing, the H6 and auto is obviously a better match too.
Have you driven both? In general, the H6 will be smoother and quieter. If you can afford the extra $$ and don't want a 5-speed, then the LL Bean is a great buy.
Ken
TWRX
drive a H4 AT too and judge for yourself.
while I agree that a 5sp MT or perhaps a 5sp AT would be better in the H4, the 4EAT does just fine for us in our '00 OB. you also have to take into consideration the 50/50 split for the MT and 80/20 split for the AT. one is reactive, the other proactive. one has a vc, the other multiplate clutch.... etc., etc., etc.
try to drive what you're comfortable with. take any of the models for an extended test drive and get a feel for how each uses the available power.
-Brian
(taking cover as I re-read this and see that I almost sounded like the WRX AT thread...
-mike
The image just went up, so at the moment there are no responses to it. However, be forewarned: Most people who visit this site are hardcore Jeepers who hate the Liberty, so I don't expect favorable responses. Still, it should be fun...
Bob
http://www.onetomany.com/jeepnews/indexnoflash.htm
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38839<
Blackwood, not one of Ford's "Better Ideas," to die. (Can't get link to work! Argh!)
http://www.autonews.com/
Subaru hopes to increase sales to 250,000 by 2005; an increase of 34% as compared to 2001. (Can't get link to work! Argh, again!)
Bob
I really was hoping Isuzu would use just the GM platform, and come up with their own interior and exterior. GM engines are OK, but why not the Ward's 10 Best Duramax built by Isuzu? (just noticed that on Bob's link)
I'd still prefer to have it built at SIA. The final product is not an Isuzu in any way, shape, or form. Isuzu dealers have just become another GMC outlet for sales.
How 'bout them Terps! Beat the Hoosiers! Though I'm sure SIA employees want Indy.
I think the 2.5l is more than adequate, and that the 3.0l is more about smoothness and luxury feel than it is about brute power. Still, I wish the H6 was available on several other models, and with a manual tranny.
Pretty funny, Bob. It actually doesn't look like a bad idea. If DCX makes one you should ask for a reward.
-juice
GM gave theirs a midgate, more power, and 4WD. For less money. Guess which succeeded?
-juice
Bob
-juice