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Honda Latitude
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I think that the CR-V and Caravan are good benchmarks. It needs to come in under the CR-V, and be somewhat competitive against the Caravan. In Europe last year the Stream 2.0 was E22,500 vs E24000 for the CR-V, a difference of E1,500. I picked up the Feb Car Guide with '03 pricing which shows the CR-V at C$27,100. Knocking C$2,500 off for the same Stream/CR-V price difference suggests a Canadian price of $24,500 at most. FWD Elements start at C$23,900, so depending on content, I would expect to see base Latitudes start around C$23,750-C$24,500.
Caravans start at C$25,725 (although heavy rebates and incentives knock this down further) and MPVs at $26k, so this would be about as competitive as it needs to be, since it won't be chasing Caravan volumes and the "smaller car=smaller price" demand in the market will be off-set by the market's willingness to pay a bit more for it being a Honda.
The US is different, but there I would expect to see it come in at about US$17,500-$18,500.
Yes, they have admitted that abandoning the hatchback market proved to be a wrong idea, as evidenced by the big revival in hatchback sales (the Mazda Protegé 5 is flying out the doors of dealerships, Ford is surprised at the strong sales of the Focus ZX5 hatchback, and sales of the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix "twins" have been doing well lately).
However, the Honda Stream is very easily adaptable for the US market, mostly because it's built on the same platform as the CR-V and Element. Given that the Stream will probably weigh about the same (or slightly less) as the 2003 Honda Accord LX sedan, with the 2.4-liter I-4 i-VTEC engine the Honda Latitude won't be a sluggard with it comes to accelerating from stoplights. If Honda decides to abandon the third row of seats on the Latitude they could reconfigure the interior to be a very roomy vehicle indeed.
I think Ford, Volkswagen and Nissan are watching what Honda does with close interest. If Honda does introduce the Latitude this fall as a 2004 model and the vehicle does sell well, we might see very serious consideration for selling the Ford Focus C-Max, Volkswagen Touran and a Nissan-badged variant of the next-generation Renault Scenic in the USA as early as the fall of 2004 as 2005 models.
Would Americans buy this type of car? I think they would. The fact the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix "twins" (the closest thing we have to the other vehicles I'v mentioned) is doing well in sales bodes well for this category of vehicle.
My pipe dream for the Stream, and the one I was trying to import, would have been the 1.7 litre 5 speed manual. A pipe dream because I don't believe Honda would consider bringing it to market if it is perceived as underpowered, even if it got great gas mileage as a result. I guess in an ideal world, the Steam would have Honda's new diesel or a hybrid powertrain for really terrific mileage. I can dream, can't I?
In the future, if there're some problems with this car or need some parts to be changed, where will you go to repaire it?
Thanks a lot!
To clarify, I'm hoping the Latitude/Stream comes to the US/Canada with the 1.7 and a manual tranny and a 3rd row seat--not a lot of power, 7 passengers in a pinch, and high mileage.
did you actually get any rough dollar amounts , out of curiosity?
Prices seem to be a little higher these days because of the Euro/dollar exchange rate. You can go to honda's French, German, Danish, etc. sites and get all the vital statistics you need.
Hope this helped, and I'm sorry to burst any bubbles.
I think you're over-estimating how big the Stream is. Think Civic five door hatch. A few American journalists have driven it with the optional 2.0 and found it perfectly acceptable. A V6 would be overkill.
Now, if Honda brought over the latest JDM Ody, that might require a bigger power plant.
Length 179.9 inches
Width 66.73 inches
Height 62.6 inches
Wheelbase 107.28 inches
Weight 3172 lbs (2.0 litre, manual)
The Stream is more of a tall Civic wagon than a 5 door Civic.
For comparison, the CRV is basically the same size. The Civic sedan is 5 inches shorter, the 600 lbs. lighter (and uses the 1.7 litre 4 cyl) and the Accord sedan is 10 inches longer and about the same weight and comes with either the 2.4 litre 4 or larger V6.
I think the 2 litre 4 cyl would be adequate power for this vehicle. That said, I think would Honda probably bring it in with the 2.4 litre 4 cyl.
The Stream is a little longer, a little narrower, a bit shorter in height, and a bit lighter. The old CR-V's dimensions were:
Length: 177.6
Width: 68.9
Height: 65.9
WB: 103.1
Weight: 3,261
The old CR-V got by on the 2.0 engine, with 0-60 times of 10.3 sec. According to CAR Magazine, the Stream does 0-60 in 9.9. If you could live with the CR-V's performance, the 2.0 would be fine, although most North Americans were crying for more juice in that car.
Interestingly, the two magazines got nearly identical 70-0 braking distances of 184 ft, despite being disc/disc on the Stream and disc/drum on the CR-V.
FWIW, the current CR-V in Europe and Japan both use the same 2.0L engine used in the Stream. The Stream's 2.0 is much "torqier" than the 1996-2001 CR-V.
I was going to list the engine specs but figured that HP calculations in Europe might be different. The magazine lists 154 hp @ 6,300 and 142 lb-ft @4,000.
The '01 CR-V in CD shows 146hp @ 6,200 and 133 lb-ft @ 4,500.
As well, I can tell you for sure that having the VTEC makes a bigger difference than the difference in the numbers might suggest -- my '98 Odyssey 2.3 VTEC feels much stronger off the line and at the top end than the '95-'97 2.2 non-VTECs, even though the rated difference was only about 10 hp/lb-ft between them.
Since the Stream uses the CR-V AWD system, which itself was based on the old Civic Wagon Realtime system, you would think all would come in AWD mode.
I forget what the cost difference is, but Edmunds has it in the new car data. You'll just have to convert it to loonies.
http://www.hondauk-media.co.uk/hondauk/car_index.html
Honda badly needs an affordable small wagon/hatch, not to mention that they may be in danger of losing the best selling small car title to the Corolla/Matrix this year.
Honda imports the Element (Go-Open), MDX and Odyssey (La Great) to Japan to provide incremental sales, but that doesn't impact the decision to sell the HR-V here.
IMHO, the HR-V will be a partial Honda answer to Toyota's Scion. In fact, Honda filed to register the HR-V trademark in the US in January this year, which may imply that US intro is not far off.
Of the Latitude, AH-HA says "Honda will launch a new model by next summer(2003-4), the Latitude. The 2004 Latitude is basically a U.S. version of the compact 7-passenger Stream MPV. It will be aimed at young families looking for a versatile vehicle and as a samller, cheaper alternative to the Odyssey minivan."
It sounds like Honda will give the PT Cruiser some competiton. Strange how six years ago Honda sold a vehicle like this and it was a total flop, now they're the new market craze. I remember thinking it would be a good idea to bring this over when they first came out with the Stream.
Of the TSX, AH-HA says "Next spring(2003), Acura will launch the all-new TSX sport sedan. Based on the upcoming JDM Accord, the TSX will be positioned between the RSX and TL with an estimated price between $24,000 and $28,000. Look for a near production concept at the 2003 NAIAS in Janaury."
Interesting about this AH-HA guy. Over the Saturn board there's a guy that goes by the same name that has been impressively accurate with his future automobile news about GM.
The Grandis looks particularly strong and I read that Mitsubishi is considering launching it in the US (& I hope that means Canada) as well. See Mitsubishi's Japanese site for details. Styling and interior-wise, the Grandis (and to a lesser extent, the Wish) have it all over the current generation Stream. Let's hope Honda rises to the challenge.
http://www.auto-g.jp/image.html?f=news/200305/20/newcar04/01_b.jp- g
http://www.auto-g.jp/image.html?f=news/200305/20/newcar03/02_b.jp- g
http://www.auto-g.jp/image.html?f=news/200305/20/newcar02/01_b.jp- g
from what I've been able to find out, the Grandis is an inch shorter, an inch narrower and 4" less in height than an MPV. Also virtually the same footprint as a Murano (same length/wheelbase) but 3' narrower and just over an inch less in height. It's available with AWD, in 6 or 7 seat versions, has a centre walk-through and CR-V-style flip up tray. I'll take the 6 seater sport version, Mitsubishi, if you're listening.
Honda is also said to be mulling a smaller-than-Civic car for North America. This would be based on the popular Japan-market Fit, a low-cost 4-dr hatchback known in Europe as the Honda Jazz. It's another high-body 5-passenger design, but with 1.6- and 1.7-liter 4-cyl engines and, say overseas journalists, surprising interior room for the overall size. Industry-watchers think American Honda might appropriate it to counter Toyota's forthcoming youth-oriented Scion models, but only if those threaten bottom-end Civic sales. Nothing is firm yet, but the betting is that Fit/Jazz wouldn't reach U.S. dealers until model-year 2005 at the earliest.
At a press conference to launch the Grandis last Wednesday, MMC declared it would donate 3,000 yen to the Astro Boy Fund for each order it received by May 18, aiming for 3,000 orders in total. Actual orders exceeded this target by 2,018 units, bringing the company's total contribution to 15.054 million yen.
The Astro Boy Fund's agenda calls for supporting the health and well-being of children around the world and providing them with the means to create their own future.
MMC chose to donate to the Fund because of this commitment to helping children, which is perfectly matched to the main customer base of the Grandis: young families.
I'm 31 years old, plan to have 2 babies,Grandis is my best selection if Honda refuse to introduce Latitude.
Currently, the Grandis is available with either a front wheel drive, or all wheel drive. It features a 2.4 liter inline-4 that creates 165 horsepower - the same engine that will end up being the top available engine on the Outlander. It is currently available with a four speed automatic. Emissions and crash tests pending, the Grandis should be available for sale within a year in European and North America markets.
And let's get back to the subject of the Honda Latitude in this discussion. Thanks!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
BLOOMBERG NEWS
Torrance, Calif. -- Honda Motor Co. will expand its vehicle lineup next year in the U.S., the automaker's biggest market, by adding a Honda-brand wagon and an Acura sports sedan, a new-product analyst said.
Japan's second-largest automaker will add the Latitude small wagon, based on the Stream model it sells in Japan and Europe, and the four-door Acura TSX sedan, said analyst Joseph Langley at AutoHorizon, a Massapequa Park, New York, consulting firm that provides information on new vehicles to suppliers. He said he expects both models to go on sale next year as 2004 models.
I think the Touran would be a fine product for the US market as the Eurobox truck isn't selling very well and they have a very limited supply as they ended production on it last year. Which means no VW vans for 1-2 years.
Right now VW is in a similar situation to the 1993 time period when they had no new products and very limited supplies of any of the products they did have. It almost forced VW out of North America, at least this time they have plenty of other vehicles but the designs are now quite old and are losing sales momentum.
I for one would love to own a Touran as my day to day car to replace my A4 Golf, and a Sharan would be a nice replacement for our B3 Passat. Alas, VW will likely lose me as a customer over the next few years as none of their vehicles meet our family needs. Which is sad as we have been VW buyers for the last 22 years.
I hope the Lattitude makes it with 7 passenger seating (the rear ones being occaisional) as it would be a good non van vehicle that can carry all of us plus a few friends. Maybe we won't have to get a full size van!
seats take up a fair bit of usable cargo room.
Hurry up Honda, bring it over.
http://www.channel4.com/apps26/4car/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=231_2&re- viewid=279
hybrid in the next year or two.