Honda Latitude

wheelz4 · September 2003

Subaru seems to be throwing it's hat in the ring w.r.t. sport compact vans (mini-minivans) with this Impreza-based offering:
http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/d/44464
I like the looks (wheels WAY out to the corners) and with Subie's AWD, this would shoot to the top of my "next vehicle purchase" list. Currently, that list only includes the MPV and XL-7, as we need a multi-passenger vehicle (6 or 7) but one priced below $30,000 CDN and small in stature. Both the XL-7 and MPV are a bit too thirsty for my tastes though.
The Latitude, Wish, Grandis, Touran, Mazda4 and this new Subie would all be preferable, however.
Just waiting for one (or all) of these manufacturers to step up to the plate.

odman · September 2003

This is a very nice looking brochure (the one for the Jazz is good too).

I really, really, REALLY want one of these.

http://www.honda.co.uk/brochure/download/cars/HondaStream.pdf

wheelz4 · September 2003

Hey Ropedart......new stream movie is out.....
really doesn't show much.....just new headlights & part of the grill, partial tailights....just another teaser....hopefully some real pics will be forthcoming.
http://www.honda.co.jp/STREAM/change/index.html

strager · September 2003

Honda seems to have lost touch with what their customers want in North America. In this age of the Internet, people know right away what they'd really like to drive when they see cars like the Stream et al in Japan and Europe.

But Honda is still moving at a glacial pace in NA and I'm disappointed with it's boring selection of models. Where's the 5-door Civic?

jchan2 · September 2003

Instead of a TL, I may opt for a Latitude in Eternal Blue with gray leather loaded. More Power, Americans say? Honda's IMA will work. Suits the Sierra Club too.

ropedart · September 2003

With this effort it would seem this Stream will go for a few more years until a Full makeover. Will NA get this one? I saw the spy photos for the new Odyssey. Seems strange to me. Like a cross between a van and BMW.
Is it a strategy to release a Stream and new Odyssey at the same time giving customer two extreme choices like yota releasing a 7 seat Highlander and 7 seat 4runner at the same time.

jchan2 · September 2003

Might work. First, young couples might buy the Latitude, then, baby number one on the way, buy a small Odyssey, then, baby number 3 is here, they buy the Huge Max-Van Odyssey that we have now. It'll work. Toyota won't work. You have the 7-Seat AWD Highlander vs. the 7-Seat AWD Sienna. the 4Runner is all by itself. That might work.

odman · September 2003

Hey Ropedart, can you post a link to the new Ody spy shot?

odman · September 2003

Thanks for the link! It sure looks strange & aggressive. It is either much wider than the 1st Gen Ody, or much lower to the grownd -- it looks more wagon-like. Looks like it could do well in Europe.

I don't think there's much chance it will come back here -- I would think that from a product planning perspective, a Latitude/Stream would fill the smaller van/cross-over niche better and cannibalize fewer sales from the big Odyssey than this new Odyssey.

odman · September 2003

Thanks for the link! It sure looks strange & aggressive. It is either much wider than the 1st Gen Ody, or much lower to the grownd -- it looks more wagon-like. Looks like it could do well in Europe.

I don't think there's much chance it will come back here -- I would think that from a product planning perspective, a Latitude/Stream would fill the smaller van/cross-over niche better and cannibalize fewer sales from the big Odyssey than this new Odyssey.

revka · September 2003

To those concerned: please check your email.

To everyone: Just a reminder that unless approved by management, our policy does not permit postings that send our member to other sites that also host automotive message boards. Sorry this is just one of our rules.

A couple suggestions: If you want to share a photo that you've seen at another message board, you may want to check and see if the photo is actually residing at another auto site that's okay to link up here. For example:

http://www.auto-g.jp/image.html?image=news/200309/05/newcar03/06_- - - - - - - b.jpg

http://www.auto-g.jp/image.html?image=news/200309/05/newcar03/03_- - - - - - - b.jpg

To find the original source of these photos, I right clicked with my mouse, and then saved them to my favorites/bookmarks. I notice others here have also copied photos to their own personal photo pages, then linked them here. Thanks.

Please email me (revka@edmunds.com) if you have any questions. Please do not address this matter further with me here. And let's get back to the subject of the Honda Latitude!

Revka

dudleyr · September 2003

Wow - that is a nice looking van revka. What is it?

wheelz4 · September 2003

for setting me straight, Revka. Thought it was that we couldn't mention those other forums, not that we couldn't link to their photos. (And thanks for reposting the links in the acceptible manner!)
In other news.......maybe the Grandis isn't dead after all......Mitsubishi's new head may just decide to bring it here after all.
http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0309/12/insiders-268059.htm

No guarantees, but then we don't have any "absolutes" from Honda with their Latitude either. (or Mazda, or Toyota or even VW)

wheelz4 · September 2003

It's the JDM Odyssey.....the recently updated version of the one Honda originally sold here.

jchan2 · September 2003

yea! The Grandis is not dead. (yet)

vcarreras · September 2003

First time on Town Hall. I've been reading all about the Honda Latitude. Is it or is it not coming to our shores?

How about the Toyota Wish? The Wish is outselling the Stream/Latitude in Japan. Pictures I've seen posted makes for a better looking sport mini-van than the Latitude. The 2.0 Z is SHARP. Smaller than the Sienna but larger than the Matrix and the same size as the Latitude. Anyone know??

jchan2 · September 2003

The latitude is coming, according to MT a few months back. No news on the Toyota Wish, but Toyota may pull a surprise off and surprise us with a disguised version at the car shows.

jvkalra · September 2003

I don't think Honda will bring the Latitude until the 05 Odyssey is launched next year, if at all. The new Sienna and Quest could eat into Odyssey sales until the redesigned Odyssey is out and having the Latitude around could make that worse, even though that cannibalization should be minimal.

A couple more reasons why we won't see the Latitude soon: Honda likes to wait until a segment is clearly established before entering it. Right now mini-minivans aren't sold in the US.

In addition, the Stream will be redesigned in late 05 along with the Civic to keep up with intense competition in the Japanese market. I doubt that Honda would intro the freshened Stream (coming out this month) as a lame duck model next year in the US.

More likely they will have a competitor for the Matrix, IMO.

jchan2 · September 2003

I would Hope Honda would break the boundaries and serve up something ground-breaking and spectacular. Then again, ground brakingis Chrysler's job. Honda's job is to refine and make better the whole concept. Hope Honda breaks boundaries and breaks new ground. Some of us are buying MPVs just for the smaller size.

ropedart · September 2003

Honda has stated it will go where there are no others. The Element is an example and selling well. It does beg the question if the Stream can sell than so can the Wish. So who goes first? OK nobody wants a micro van now until it shows up. Its a gamble. For example Britney Spears shows up with low cut pants on MTV. Shocking at first then 6 months later girls gotta have them. Same with the Scion xB. Most kids say its too boxy until it shows up and the cool kids buy them. Suddenly its the car to have. I wish the xB had sliding doors and 7 seats but then the kids won't buy it. Too practical.

jchan2 · September 2003

time to live up to that statement. I'll be filling out the order form on a Latitude as soon as I can.

jchan2 · September 2003

my Latitude needs to have that 3rd seat.

ropedart · September 2003

Forget all this. I really want the Honda Mobilio anyway. With a bigger engine of course.

jchan2 · September 2003

Bigger Engine?! How's a IMA system suit you? Hybrid, more power, and still the 7-Seat capacity! What a van!

jchan2 · September 2003

higher fuel economy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vcarreras · September 2003

The page with the New Stream is Coming looks good. Seven seats for those who need it. Hopefully it will have at least the 2.4 160hp engine or even better a hybrid. Anyone know when the New Stream is due out. Hopefully a better look at the Tokyo Auto Show next month.

The Toyota Wish is another option. Look at this page:

http://toyotawish.pantown.com

Looks nice. Outselling the Stream in Japan. It would also need a larger engine than the 1.8/2.0 offered there. Maybe the 2.4 in the Camry or Highlander or better still a hybrid.

Most important is when or if they will come to NA. Some say wagons won't sell here. Then why is Audi, BMW, MB, Subaru and Mazda all updating their wagons. Yes larger versions than the Latitude/Wish. Think people getting tired a high fluctuating fuel prices?

wheelz4 · September 2003

As minivans (with the exception of the MPV) are morphing into maxivans here in North America and gas prices continue to fluctuate, the case for these sport wagon/vans becomes stronger everyday.
The Wish is virtually identical to the Stream in size......it's newer, interior is nicer and it's more sharply styled (although the body-coloured B pillar looks out of place), so that may be why its outselling the Stream.
I agree the Wish needs the Camry 4 and the Stream needs the 2.0 150hp 4 minimum (but the 2.4 160hp Accord/CR-V engine would be more competitive).
vcarreras....you may want to check out the Mitsubishi Grandis as well (there should be links further back in this forum), the VW Touran and the Mazda4. I don't know if any of these are a slam-dunk to come here, but if any of them do, I'll be first in line.

odman · September 2003

That was a good site. I clicked on a few of the sidebars and found side shots of the Stream, Wish, Zafira (GM Europe design). The white Wish looks very sleek -- previously I thought it only looked good in black.

It would seem that between Toyota, Honda and GM, at least ONE of them could move off the dime and test the waters with a sporty design like this. GM sells the Zafira in Mexico and South America, so it wouldn't have far to travel.

Exterior: http://www.pantown.com/content.php?id=547&name=content9
Interior: http://www.pantown.com/content.php?id=547&name=content7

wheelz4 · September 2003

I always liked the Zafira......especially the Flex7 seating system, however it's looking very dated on the outside now. GM is so lethargic when it comes to updating their models. The new Astra looks really sharp, so an updated and much more contemporary looking Zafira must be just around the corner. The Stream looks pretty homely next to the Wish. I guess the freshening might help it claw back a little bit of market share but it really needs a complete makeover to be class- leading, or at least more competitive. The Grandis is still my favourite at least as far as looks go.....it's pretty close in size to your 1st gen. Ody, Odman.

jchan2 · September 2003

I'm going to beat you to the line on one of these sport-wagons:
Mitsubishi Grandis
Honda Latitude
Toyota Wish
Volkswagen Touran
Mazda 4
Subaru Traviq/Opel Zafira

vcarreras · September 2003

The reason I am more interested in the Wish/Latitude is because of Toyota/Honda. Their quality is second to none.

I am wondering if Honda isn't coming out with the New Stream/Latitude becuase of the Wish looking sooooo GOOD. The white one is the 2.0Z. Really sharp. Think they also have a 1.8 AWD.

If either the WISH/Latitude come to NA I would hope for 5-speed automatic or 6 speed maunal / 4 wheel disk brakes/ side curtain protection as standard equipment. Also a hybrid. How would you like to get 40+ mpg in something like this!

Let's hope Honda and Toyota realize that there IS a market here for a sport wagon/van.

jimjps · September 2003

I am just back from a month in France and Spain. I am very car-observant and the selection of Stream-like vehicles is amazing. In 4 weeks I saw just one Stream. In the same time I saw over 10 VW Tourans which have only been out a few months, whereas the Stream has been available for about 2 years. Looks like the Stream is a flop. The Touran is a few inches shorter and wider and appears to have similar volume. The VW 2.0 TDI produces a whopping 238 ft lbs of torque and nearly 50 mpg which I am sure has much to do with it's popularity. Honda gas engines as good as they are cannot compete with a good European TDI. BTW I saw that Europcar rental had a 6-speed Touran TDI available for rent in Bordeaux (wish I had known this before I got a Citroen HDI turbodiesel.)
It is certainly out of the question that Honda would bring the Stream to the US now on a 4 year old platform. Note that VW came out first with the biggest version of the Golf (Touran) first on the new Golf 5 platform and then the Golf later. That would be like Honda releasing the Stream first and the Civic later (but these are different markets). Right now the mini-minivan market appears to be the hottest segment going in Europe and Honda is not a significant player. Don't ask me what this all means for us in North America. VW says they will sell Tourans here but they will either be imported from Europe and be very expensive or made in Mexico/Brazil and a long way off.

odman · September 2003

With the New Stream being just a facelift (doesn't look like a full re-design), Honda obviously expects to get a few more years out of the current platform. Maybe when it gets fully redesigned in '06/'07, they might then decide to bring it over. That fits the timing of the Automotive News calendar too.

In terms of the current model, Honda probably isn't worried about the Wish (which doesn't appear to be coming here OR Europe either), but is more concerned that the potential for the micro-van segment just isn't big enough now, and that they would be better off focusing on bolstering the Element/CR-V and leaving van seekers to the massive Odyssey.

jchan2 · September 2003

Come on. We have a whole group of what? 300-500 people on Edmunds just waiting on a Stream, Wish, Touran, Grandis, ETC..... We're all holding out on our purchases, but I didn't. I just bought a Odyssey for all the space. See how wasteful I am just because there's no Micro-Vans here now?

odman · September 2003

Honda/Toyota/et al all hope that we will buy what's on the lot right now, rather than holding out for yet another model they need to federalize and bring over.

Not a very good way of building loyalty, because as Honda itself showed with the car-based CR-V, the moment a manufacturer brings a model to satisfy an unmet (in this case for a soft-roader) need, they will have the market to themselves. Who will it be for micro-vans? Honda? Toyota? Mitsubishi? VW?

wheelz4 · September 2003

When Honda's US Dealer group first saw the CR-V, they didn't even want it, saying it was too small for the North American market. Well, that North American market has proved them wrong big time, as the CR-V has gone on to be one of Honda's most successful models. Same thing could happen for sport-compact vans. Get the price/styling/features right and they will be successful.
jimjps......that's one of the fastest growing and most competitive segements in Europe (& Japan, for that matter). Stream's styling is off-putting for some and lack of a diesel hurts it as well.
There are brand new Scenics (the pioneer) and Tourans, the Ford C-Max(5 seater only) etc. etc. on the market, so the Stream is no longer competitive. If the next Stream is 2 years off, that's a long time to remain uncompetitive. The freshening may help, but it's going to take a total redesign (adoption of the Jazz's edgier styling and trick seats/fuel tank placement would be a good start) for Honda to be a player.

jimjps · September 2003

I think the last few posts are very good analysis of the situation. The 1st mfg to get a good microvan to the NA market wins a healthy segment and the irony is that the vehicles already exist. The big players don't have as much to gain 'cuz they make more money on Odysseys and Siennas and people will buy these if there is nothing more practical available. It may take a small player like VW with nothing to loose to crack the ice. They have the car, but a possible problem in delivering it profitably to North America. I have seen the Hyundai Matrix which appears to be a microvan and they could deliver it; unfortunately it is not quite up to the standard of Stream, Touran, Grandis, etc with reportedly just fair engines and suspension. I came close to buying an MPV, then I came close to buying a Focus wagon, but I am still holding out. BTW, speaking of Megane Scenics, I have driven them and they are great cars but I have to say the styling on the latest Scenic is over-the-top. They make the Murano look conservative! Give me a Stream, a Latitude, a Touran TDI. I will buy it.

wheelz4 · September 2003

Sound's like our needs are similar. I too looked at the Focus wagon but the reliability issues kept me away. Our needs to occasionaly carry more than 5 passengers have bumped it off my radar now. Of all the current minivan's out there, the MPV is the most appealing to us, specifically because of it's more managable size. A split-folding rear seat like the Sienna would be nice so we could carry 5 and still have room for cargo. Also, despite it's smaller size, it's thirstier at the fuel pumps that either the larger Odyssey or Sienna.
That's why, like you, we're holding out for something along the lines of a Touran, Stream or Wish.
BTW, the new Scenic is an improvement on the Megane hatchback on which it's based (IMHO), although I agree, it takes some getting used to. I've seen pics of the long-wheelbase Grand?Scenic (7 seater) and I think it looks a little better balanced of the 2.

ropedart · September 2003

That Wish in white sure is sharp to me. With that blacked out D pillar it looks swoopy. Take that over a Matrix anyday and so would every boomer who bought one. The Stream need work.

jimjps · September 2003

Wheelz4. Right on the Megane, it' even crazier looking then the Scenic, and it certainly got my attention. Like they say "it turns heads, and a few stomachs too" but seriously, after 3 weeks in Paris I did almost get used to them. Here's something that gets me... they are making Renault Scenics in Brazil and the streets are full of them. When I was there last year the price converted to US was under $10,000!! (albeit for a 1.6 that runs on 22% alcohol/78% gasoline). So in addition to Europe and Asia, South America is into Microvans. Only the most lucrative auto market in the world (North America) does not have any serious offerings.
But I digress.....

wheelz4 · September 2003

Honda seems to be making a big thing of this on their Japanese website, (moreso than the Civic makeover), so maybe the changes aren't just cosmetic. One would think that the changes will be in place for at least 2 years when a totally new model will be ready in 2006. They may very well bring the Stream/Latitude here in 2004, keep it in our market for 2005 and some or all of 2006 and debut the new model late 2006/early 2007, once it's had some time to be established in Japan. Here's hoping, anyway!

jchan2 · September 2003

Who will it be that will start the micro-van craze and have Used car lots swamped with Maxi-vans? Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, VW, etc.......

ropedart · September 2003

Mini-vans are great but have a big image problem. As big and as nice the new Sienna is I'd rather have a Wish to take 7 around. It looks like a sport coupe. I think even the new Quest will fail to convince everyone the coolness of vans. Everything will slowly outsell vans. They need to be disguised in some way.

vcarreras · September 2003

I totally agree with ropedart with your comments. The Sienna/Ody are both very nice but my needs are for something smaller and sportier. As mentioned before the Sienna/Ody are too big and Matrix too small. The WISH/Latitide would be right IF Toyota/Honda put in the right engine/tranny combination. Plenty of torque for the times you do take 7 around but also give you good mpg from the 4 cyl/hybrid. VERY PRACTICAL and COOL. Especially in the WISH. Honda has some work to do and have seen it already in their home market as the WISH is outselling the Stream. We'll soon see at the Tokyo Auto Show..

glycinemax · September 2003

Looking again at those teaser pics on the Honda Stream Japan site has me frustrated. I'm becoming more convinced that next summer (2004) I'll be replacing the 92 Honda Civic VX. For some time it looked like the Stream was coming stateside as the Latitude and I was stoked. Then all the rumors died out. Vehicles at the top of the list, fairly consistently, have been the Subaru Forester XS, 05MY Subaru Legacy wagon, 05MY Subaru Outback wagon, dreams of an i-CTDi Honda Civic EX 5 door - i-CTDi Accord Tourer EX - i-CTDi CR-V EX, or some other make (05-06?MY VW TDi Passat wagon -bummer only in AT and lingering quality and dealer issues, Toyo Prius or Matrix - nah, Mazda 6 wagon - is it coming?, Dodge Magnum?). Waiting for the auto shows in January or April for a Latitude debut is tough. The Stream changes to the new headlight cluster, amber taillight turn signals, triangular back-up lights, and seemingly larger cargo area side windows all look like great improvements. Hey Honda, if you bring it make it easier for me to decide by making it easy to get side curtain air bags (or head&chest), ABS, and EBD. Element antennae in a rear window would also be nice, along with leaving front quarter panel side markers. Here's to hoping!

vcarreras · September 2003

Even more..
http://www.world.honda.com/news/2003/4030901.html

Accord wagon is Euro/Japan/US Acura TSX!

suvsbob · September 2003

Had some time. Called Toyota America to ask them bring the WISH here. The guy is quite nice. But he has no idea what kind car Wish is. He promised he'll convey the request to big dog if he has a chance to meet the dog. A good start.

Called Honda America, office closed. That sucks.

Guys/girls, since you want Latitude/Wish badly, please call the following phone numbers to ask Toyota/Honda. I bet if one manufacturer bring its car, another one will compete heads on. For everyone's fun, please call:

Toyota: 1-800-GO TOYOTA
Honda: 1-999-1009

vcarreras · September 2003

I will definitely call Toyota. I'd love to have a Wish or two in my garage. How about a white one for me and a silver one for the wife.

Check the Honda number suvsbob. I don't think it's correct.

jchan2 · September 2003

i think 1-800 33-HONDA.

vcarreras · September 2003

Look at this. Could it be the new Ody?

http://www.prelude-fan.de/pics/odyssey-2gen.gif

The lights look modern but the sides look like the present Ody..

Honda Latitude

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