Honda Latitude

wheelz4 · February 2004

the first two photos side by side....mirrors, the way the front bumper integrates with the wheel arch, the disguise covering up the Toyota logo on the grill.......and if you see pics of the other side, the round gas cap etc. etc....I have no doubt that the first spy photo is the Corolla Verso and not the Mazda4. The second spy image was supposed to be the 4, and it looks remarkably like the Flexa concept, right down to the sliding door tracks.
Since this IS supposed to be the Honda Latitude discussion, anybody go some spy pics/info on the Latitude? ......I didn't think so

wheelz4 · February 2004

...to Revka (or whoever the current wagon host is)
Just a bit more info on the Mazda4 (being as there's no Latitude news to pass around).
Sounds like the MPV is dead, at least in Europe and probably Japan too, as the 4 will split the difference between the current Premacy and MPV and will replace both of them. This link I will post is the strongest indication yet that the Flexa is indeed the new 4.
http://www.whatcar.com/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=206710

wheelz4 · February 2004

When the WhatCar article says MPV, they are referring to the generic term MPV (ie people-carrier), not the Mazda-specific MPV.

jimjps · February 2004

Good job Wheelz4 on the "4" research. I have to think it is one of the more promising prospects.
Will they be making them in Japan? Seems if the 3 can be brought in from the motherland at a reasonable price, so could the4.

jchan2 · February 2004

will we get it? the computer generated spy pic looks very nice.

lostjr · February 2004

"When the WhatCar article says MPV, they are referring to the generic term MPV (ie people-carrier), not the Mazda-specific MPV. "

I know MPV is a generic term in the UK, but in this context, "seven-seater MPV" could only mean the vehicle known in the UK and N. Am as the MPV:

"In terms of size, the MX-Flexa sits midway between Mazdas Premacy midi-MPV and the seven-seater MPV, both of which will be discontinued when the 4 is launched."

If this is the plan in the UK, what would they do in N. Am?

jchan2 · February 2004

I'd think that they would introduce the 4, take the MPV a size up, and there you go.

raychuang00 · February 2004

I think the reason why Honda hasn't decided to bring over the Latitude (based on the current Honda Stream) is the fact the platform that forms the basis for the CR-V and Element is to be replaced by a new platform within the next 18 months.

This is why I think Honda won't unveil the new Latitude until January 2005 as a 2006 model, the first vehicle based on the new platform that will spawn the next-generation CR-V and the second-generation Element model.

Of course, Honda better hurry up about this. Toyota is making serious noises about bringing over the Verso small MPV (which is larger than the Matrix) to the US market, and the new Mazda4 small MPV is also aimed right at this market, too. Can you imagine a Toyota Verso with an enlarged version of the Hybrid Synergy Drive hybrid drivetrain? I'll buy one in no time flat! :-)

jchan2 · February 2004

I'll buy one too!

simon_tx · February 2004

Honda should make an Accord wagon - maybe even a hybrid version.

This Latitude thing is just another minivan. IMO.

vcarreras · February 2004

has an Accord wagon in Japan. It's the Acura TSX as we know it in a wagon.

Our best bet for some sort of wagon/sport van 6-7 seats will be the JDM Odyssey. However as mentioned earlier Honda appears to be more interested in TRUCKS and nothing else. We will see..

Interest will be next week at Geneva when Mazda shows their new MX-Flexa. That my be our best bet for getting Toyota and Honda moving with the Corolla Verso, Avensis Wagon, WISH and MAYBE Honda's redesigned Stream/Latitude or JDM Odyssey. I think Toyota will do it first..BUT WHEN! I like Mazda BUT still not sure of their long term dependability..compared with Honda/Toyota.

jchan2 · February 2004

Once someone introduces one and the sales take off, you'll see a flood of them. The list:
Ford Galaxy
Opel Zafira (could be sold under Saturn, which will sell rebadged Opels)
Honda Latitude/JDM Odyssey
Toyota Avensis Verso/ WISH
Mazda 4
Mitsubishi Grandis
Volkswagen Touran
And I'm sure there's more out there.

vcarreras · February 2004

to see them ALL! Hybrids included. I think I can hold out another year or two and HOPE the floodgates open. With gas prices going up up up there SHOULD be a demand for something semi sporty, practical and more fuel efficient.

vcarreras · February 2004

at the new Zafira.

http://www.whatcar.com/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=206901

I've seen them in Mexico and not bad. Can't wait to see what the new Mazda4 MX-Flexa looks like this week. Is there any talk that the 4 will come to NA? When is the next BIG auto show here in the US where either Honda or Toyota might show us something?

jchan2 · February 2004

could be sold under the Saturn brand, since Saturn's new sales plan is to sell rebadged Opels.

wheelz4 · March 2004

Guess we should see the real thing (as opposed to the sketches) in a day or so....can't wait. Was checking out the re-styled MPV on the weekend...
Like the body-colour grill and the beefier rear bumper in the top-of-the-line version but not the tacky ground-effects with the chrome inserts. The grill on the base & mid versions is ugly. While the overall size would be good for us, fuel mileage is worse that most of the extended-length vans. Therefore, an almost-as-big Mazda4 (the Flexa) with much-improved fuel economy would be ideal. New Corolla Verso looks good too and both these will have it all over tha Latitude/Wish when it comes to both styling and flexible interior layouts.

vcarreras · March 2004

at the new Mazda MX-Flexa. Looks like a modern MPV. VERY NICE..

http://www.whatcar.com/News_SpecialReport.asp?NA_ID=207173&EL- _ID=3057057

If Mazda brings it over by this fall I would hope Honda and Toyota will meet the challange..

vcarreras · March 2004

Toyota and there's the Corolla Verso..

wheelz4 · March 2004

http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?cache=no&ID=2293
Looks great......I believe the Mazda4 won't stray much from this...different roof rack, head&taillight details, exhaust pipes, smaller wheels/tires and some interior trim but that's about it. Perfect size for our needs, Mazda6/3 2.3 litre engine should provide enough power with good fuel economy...please bring it to Canada, Mazda!
(I know this is the Latitude/Stream forum...maybe we need to start a new thread!)

vcarreras · March 2004

appears to be a no-show at Geneva and maybe because they are not that big in Europe. The Houston Auto Show is in a few weeks and am sure they will show up with their SUT. Maybe they'll have something else. Hope Toyota shows up with their Verso and Mazda with the Flexa!

dudleyr · March 2004

Flexa looks very nice! Manual tranny please.

jchan2 · March 2004

looks nice. Leather, Sunroof, Shiftronic, for $21,000 and with a third row seat.

vcarreras · March 2004

it will come to NA? If so when? Fall of 04 as an 05 or Spring of 05 as an 06? You may want to start a new site for the MX-Flexa and KISS the Honda Latitude good-bye..at least for now.

If the Flexa comes I am sure both Honda abd Toyota will be quick to jump into the market. Sure hope so. With BMW looking at building the V1, V3 and V5 mini-vans/sport wagons by 07, we may soon have our WISH! or Verso! or JDM Odyssey!! Let's hope sooner and not later.

wheelz4 · March 2004

We'll be in the market by the summer of 2005, so I hope at least one of these manufacturers has their act together by then. Flexa/Mazda4 is my current favourite but the Corolla Verso would be welcome as well. Both make the Stream/Latitude look dated and dorky IMHO. Mazda's Swiss site has a feed from the Geneva show and the triplezoom enthusiast site (sorry, Edmund's won't let me link to it) has a write-up and a great picture gallery as well.

jchan2 · March 2004

to introduce a redesigned Honda Latitude here?

vcarreras · March 2004

DOWN worldwise with Toyota, Nissan and Mazda UP. Not sure what Honda is thinking and hope they don't put all their eggs in one basket..the SUT! Think that would be a mistake. If you saw the Auto crash test this past week on tv the Acura TL and TSX did not do very well. What's happening at Honda??

vcarreras · March 2004

talk on the MPV someone states that this will be the last year for the Mazda MPV. Somewhere I saw that the MX-Flexa was going to replace the MPV. Could this mean the the Flexa could be here this fall or next spring? My checkbook is ready!!

wheelz4 · March 2004

The Mazda4 (ie Flexa) will replace both the Premacy and the MPV in Europe (and I'm assuming Japan as well) when it's introduced (somewhere between Fall 2004 amd Spring 2005). What that means for our MPV is anyone's guess. Due to it's more compact size and lower entry-level price, it sells ok in Canada but I think it's at the bottom of the heap in the US, even below Kia. If I were Mazda, I'd share a larger platform minivan(i.e. new MPV) with Ford (the next-gen Freestar will be built off the Mazda6 platform anyway) and, at the very least, bring the 4/Flexa over to Canada where we appreciate smaller, fuel-efficient, reasonably-priced vehicles. The 4/Flexa looks like it could do well in the small crossover market as well....sort of a super-sized Matrix, it could grab some of the Element market as well (and it doesn't hurt that it looks great too), so Mazda could very well bring it to the US too.

jchan2 · March 2004

if it comes, the checkbook is waiting.

wheelz4 · March 2004

Just read in the Detroit News that Mazda will show the Flexa to the US audience in NYC's car show in April. Hopefully this is a good sign and the Flexa/4 will get a positive reaction.

wheelz4 · March 2004

....from the Detroit News, about several of the Geneva concepts which again mentions the Flexa may be coming here...
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0403/10/g01-87317.htm

wheelz4 · March 2004

Read on a Honda forum (you know, that temple one)that Europe will get a new 6 seater....supposedly it will look similar to the Japanese Odyssey but will seat 6 in two rows - in other words, 3+3. To me, this makes no sense....just as in Nissan's small crossover concept(Actic) which also featured 3 + 3 seating, unless the vehicle is unusually wide, 3 across seating is not comfortable and, in the front seat, interferes with the driver. Even in a vehicle as wide as a Grand Caravan, the three person bench is only comfortable if all 3 are small kids. 2+2+2 is the way to go, IMHO.

dudleyr · March 2004

You can still seat two in a seat made for three. It is nice to have the extra capacity when you need it.

jchan2 · March 2004

I prefer the 2+3+2 seating arangement because I can just fold down the last row and get more cargo room. A 3+3 seating arrangement with a column shifter is OK with me, but I have concerns when I'm hauling five kids and two have to shove in the front with me

wheelz4 · March 2004

for a SIX seater, 2+2+2 makes more sense than 3+3. I do agree with jchan though, that a 7 seater layout in a 2+3+2 configuration makes the most sense, in that you can still seat 5 with plenty of luggage space (although you can really only seat 4 comfortably) However, a six seater with a 2+2+2 setup can also seat 5 and if the rearmost seat is split, still allow for a good amount of luggage. Five seated this way (2+2+1) may be more comfortable than 2+3, depending on the room allotted to the last row.

wheelz4 · March 2004

I've said this before and, prompted by a recent article in the Globe & Mail, I'll say it again.
By continuing to ignore certain segements of the market, Honda is seeing it's market share shrink, especially in Canada. We have, here in this forum, a prime example...Honda's waffling on the Stream/Latitude....is it coming? when? in what configuration? I'm sure there will be a market (especially here in Canada) for sporty, well-designed mini-minivans/sport vans. Toyota and Mazda may be the first to reap it...their new Corolla Verso's and Mazda4/Flexa's respectively are the freshest vehicles on the market in this segement. Honda's Stream/Latitude, even in it's "refreshed" form, seems(and is) a generation behind. Honda is also completely ignoring the subcompact, entry-level market in Canada (it's Jazz/Fit is noticeably absent) while Toyota's Echo, as well as Suzuki's Swift+/Chevy's Aveo and Hyundai's Accent + Kia's Rio have the market all to themselves, probably to be joined shortly by Mazda's MicroSport (Mazda2 derivative). Anything to counter the Matrix/Vibe, Protege5(Mazda3 Sport), Focus 5 door, Aerio SX etc?........well, Honda does have an excellent 5 door version of the Civic...it's even available with a competitive 160 hp but,alas, not for our market. The 160hp SiR? Well, the aforementioned Mazda3 Sport, also with 160 hp + 17" wheels 'n tires (and 2 extra doors!) can be had for about $5,000 less here in Canada, so I guess it doesn't really cut it. Honda is also losing the hp race big time. Other than the overpriced/undertired SiR, the most powerfull Civic has 127 hp, with the majority of them being the 115hp version. Meanwhile, Mazda3's start at 148 hp and go up to 160hp.
Honda's got the goods (200hp Civic Type-R's, the Jazz/Fit, the 5-door Civic, and hopefully, a completely re-designed Stream (and they'd better aim high with the next-gen Civic as well). They just have to bring them to (our) market.
Oh, here's the Globe article that prompted all this:
http://www.globemegawheels.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20- 040310/RHONDA10/cars/

jchan2 · March 2004

that Honda is waiting for the redesigned models of each version to bring them over to the states and Canada.

strager · March 2004

next month, that's what I expect. I'm not looking for the Stream to come to the US or Canada until Fall 2005, at the earliest.

Honda is also paying the price for their complacency in the US market, the Corolla/Matrix captured the best selling crown from the Civic/Coupe for the first time this year. I got tired of waiting for a Civic 5 door hatch and bought a Scion xB instead - what a fun car!

jimjps · March 2004

According to Car&D - (Maybe this is old news?)

"So this MX-Flexa concept will appear in the coming months as the Mazda 4and will also be available in the U.S. Whether or not its a replacement for the MPV remains to be seen."

It is supposed to show at Geneva ( I don't know if that has already happened but I haven't seen any real pix of a show car yet).

I think we will actually get the M4 in NA, it is in Mazda's best interest. My guess, just bring them in from Japan, they are managing to bring the M3's in at a reasonable price and they don't have the volume to do a lot of redundant manufacturing.

Now back to Latitude...

spacewagon · March 2004

at least from 2 places i read about this:

"four-door, six-passenger tall wagon that will be introduced in Japan and Europe later this year and reach U.S. dealerships in 2005, badged as the Mazda4."

My concern is: does Mazda have decent quality? This mediocre band has sour reputation for clunch failure, see Edmunds "Mazda6/3/MPV maintenance and problem"

Since it's almost the noly select in NA market next year, shall we buy it or wait for another 3 years for our love and hate Honda?

Toyota Wish is my favorite, (2.0L,6/7 seats,4.5m long,extremely thrift), but they only produce with right side steering.

spacewagon · March 2004

I have almost 1G photos about Toyota Wish, Honda latitude and Mazda Flexa, or mazda 4, anyone can tell me how to post?

wheelz4 · March 2004

Check post 496 for Flexa/4 photos link to Autoweek Netherlands......click on Fotoshow to see more pics.
It's encouraging to see a couple of sources saying the Flexa/4 is coming. I think Mazda's quality is pretty good....especially the Japan-source vehicles as opposed to those built in Ford/Mazda plants. That being said, it's pretty hard to touch Toyota for quality....spacewagon; check out the Toyota Corolla Verso (2004 updated version).......if both the Verso and the 4 come to America (& Canada I hope too), it would be a tough choice between these two.

dudleyr · March 2004

The easiest way to post photos is to join a photo hosting web site (usually free) and put your photos there, and then put a link on edmunds.

spacewagon · March 2004

Thanks wheelz4 & dudleyr!

jimjps · March 2004

I concur on the Japanese Mazdas being of high quality. I drove the new 3 hatch and was very impressed. The execution was nearly perfect. Now if they can just take that same superb chasis and engine and raise the roof and put some sliders in back - which is exactly what they are going to do..

lostjr · March 2004

more here:

http://www.autocarmagazine.co.uk/news_article.asp?na_id=207419

strager · March 2004

In today's WSJ there is an article about the slump in Civic sales, and Tom Elliott of Honda is quoted as saying that there will be a car less expensive than Civic that Honda will introduce next year.

I'm speculating this will be the Fit or a variation. There is no mention about a Stream-like vehicle. Either way, Honda is becoming really s-l-o-w to respond to trends in the market. I'm glad I didn't wait and bought my xB.

jchan2 · March 2004

FR-V sounds nice. It may actually catch up to the competition. The car that I think will go below the Civic will be the Honda City and the Fit, both of which to compete against the ECHO/Scion xA pair.

lostjr · March 2004

"In today's WSJ there is an article about the slump in Civic sales, and Tom Elliott of Honda is quoted as saying that there will be a car less expensive than Civic that Honda will introduce next year.

I'm speculating this will be the Fit or a variation. There is no mention about a Stream-like vehicle. Either way, Honda is becoming really s-l-o-w to respond to trends in the market. I'm glad I didn't wait and bought my xB. "

Slow... and coy. Since this is a new model for them, why wouldn't it be on the show circuit now so it could encourage a few Echo/Scion buyers to wait?

Someone said they thought it would be in New York. We will see.

Meanwhile, congrats on the xB. No point in waiting on Honda's _maybe_ cars.

wheelz4 · March 2004

Fit/Jazz is needed here in Canada.......Echo hatch is selling extremely well...even Chevy Aveo's are moving off the lots....all "lost sales" for Honda.
Not sure about the FR-V.....6 seater in a 3+3 layout will only work if the vehicle is extremely wide....the only advantage is somewhat decent luggage space with 6 aboard....don't know if I'd want to take a long trip with 3 in the front, however. Still like 2+2+2 (or 2+3+2) best.
In Autoweek, there's more praise for the Mazda3 (especially the hatch) with the comment that unless Honda builds an Si wagon, the 3's the only game in town. Mazda 3's are outselling Civics(formerly the best selling car in Canada)now. Honda will need incentives to have any hope of regaining the title.

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