Well, since Ford doesn't own Cummins, its pretty much a moot point. Some time ago, Ford owned a small portion (~5%) but sold it off -- I believe for just that reason.
Ford does use Cummins engines as options in their larger trucks (F650 and up).
and I'll bet Ford is dying a thousand deaths that DaimlerChrysler is now building their heavy duty trucks under the Sterling name... that is NOT a rumor.
Yeah, I can't get enough of that 'big rig' look........Dodge should use that term in their adds, or maybe they have and I just missed that one........We were the first to offer the 'big rig' look......hurry to your friendly Dodge dealer........
It's a matter of opinion. My big black Ford Superduty Supercab 4x4 dually towers over the other pickups on the road and gets plenty of looks of admiration from Ford, Dodge and Chevy drivers alike. It's an awesome looking and driving truck.
If this truck holds up like the Ford truck I just sold, my next vehicle will be another Ford truck. If it doesn't, I'll be checking out the latest offerings from Dodge and Chevy.
Plymouth, we've had numerous debates about whether the new Ford and Dodge really share much resemblence. Personally, I have yet to park next to Dodge that looked anything like my truck. If you feel that Ford copied the Dodge, you should take it as a compliment. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery. Dodge has a nice looking truck.
malibu1, maybe you should hire out your services as an ad consultant to the Big Three.
For that matter, you could claim that the new Chevy looks like a Ford SD because the grill drops down slightly into the bumper. Geez, folks... The Ford front end is a fairly basic evolution of the '97 one, with a little smoothing and about an extra 1/2" in the preexisting bulge.
Ddge is #3 in sales, but ask a Ford guy if he would swap his V10 or Powerstroke for the Cummins...
If the next Ram is on par with the Super Duty, as DaimlerChrysler is considering, and GM doesn't deliver on their heavy trucks (whenever they show up), look for Dodge to pass GM in sales. The General seems to be making marketing blunder after blunder (their off-the-record admission that they guessed wrong on the 4-door extended cab because they didn't think the Dodge would sell), and tenuous labor relations put the line at risk for another strike next year when the national UAW contract ends.
The 'General's' marketing blunders do not seem to be stopping people from whipping out their checkbooks to throw down some cash on the new Silverado. GM cannot make them fast enough. A marketing blunder is that 'we've changed the rules' garbage that Dodge shoves down your throat. Sometimes you just have to think back and wish that the governement hadn't felt the need to bail out Chrysler. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
If the General continues to operate as they are, they'll be in big trouble. They are so large it takes them forever to get anything done and the world will pass them by. They are trying to hold a 30% share of the market which will be hard with their current management practices. The whole industry was in bad shape when the Chrysler bailout happened. They had lousy management and were not as big as GM and Ford so they were in trouble first. Ford had a brush with bankruptcy in the early '80's (Chrysler was close again too). They were lucky enough to get many ex Ford and GM execs to turn it around. The government has bailed out hundreds of companies over the years. The Chrysler bailout got the most press because it was a well known company and would affect so many people if it failed. If the Republicans would have been in office from '76-'80 instead of Carter, Chrysler would have been gone. Easily the best thing Jimmy Carter ever did while President!
GM will only survive if they drop one of their truck lines. There is still no reason or excuse to have two virtually identical sets of trucks. make them all Chevy or all GMC. Just like the mass duplication of their cars, having to support two full truck lines is putting unnecessary drain on the company. How much cheaper would the Silverado be if if there was no Sierra to build, with its differences in front-end sheetmetal and trim? You can get a dually for the same price as one of these Suilverados now.
After this summer's strike, it's clear who is running GM. No one.
Enlighten me....... From where I sit the dodge v-10 is head and shoulders over the triton v-10. If you wanted a strong gas motor why not the magnum. It's got the horses, the torque and the best looking curve I've seen even when considering the diesels!!!!! I'm just about to put in my order. What's the word???
Not saying the Cummins is for everybody. The problem with the Ford V10 is, it's the only engine besides the Powerstroke that can move the Super Duty truck. The 5.4 V8 is useless. Dodge gives you appreciable power with the V8, the V10, and the diesel. But I do know a fair number of Ford AND Dodge owners who would run like hell to a Ford dealer to buy a Cummins-powered Super Duty truck.
bunkski,
The Dodge V10 will outrun a comparably-equipped Ford V10. Ford has more axle ratio choices to get the power to the ground, making it seem more powerful in certain configurations.
Motor Trend did a comparison in their September 98 magazine. The Ford V-10 "significantly bested" the Dodge V-10 in the 30-50 and 40-60 passing times while towing 4,000 pounds. The article said that the Triton's wider rev range often allowed the Ford to operate at the hgher end of a lower gear.
At the same time, the numbers speak for themselves. The Dodge has 300hp and 440 lb-ft of torque, compared to the 275/410 for the Ford. If you hook up a large trailer that gets close to maxing your tow limits, the Dodge is almost certainly going to have an easier time maintaining highway speeds, especially in hilly or mountainous terrain. Then again, most people who tow near their max limits usually opt for the high torque diesels.
that MT test caused a lot of discussion in some other chat groups. For one thing, the Ford had a lower (numerically higher) axle. The Ford's transmission also was much faster to downshift than the Dodge; the Ram stayed in gear and just used its torque to accelerate. I tend to read comparison tests like these with a very suspicious eye for details like that. Unless the magazine orders and waits for two truly comparable trucks in terms of body, engine, and drivetrain, these tests aren't really worth much.
I agree. There will always be other factors besides pure engine power that impact how a particular vehicle does in any given test. In this case, the trannys and axle ratios are just two. When you compare the two diesels (PSD vs Cummins), the numbers favor Ford. However, I doubt you'll find many Cummins owners who feel they have a less powerful, inferior engine. I just brought up the article since someone mentioned the power difference with the two V-10s.
You know, with my Ford bias, it would be really easy to say yes. However, the reality is that I don't know anything about the Dodge V-10 other than what little I have read. Does anyone know what percentage of Dodge trucks sold have the V-10? It sure doesn't seem like there are alot of Dodge V-10 owners out there.
I haven't heard many mpg figures for the Dodge V-10 either, so there really isn't much to compare it to. Even if you did have some figures, you would get into the issue of differing axle ratios. If I'm not mistaken, the Dodge has the 3.54 and the 4.10 compared to the Ford's 3.73 and 4.30.
I can vouch that I'm more than satisfied with my Ford V-10. The mpg is still climbing. On my 300 mile trip back from the dealership a couple of months ago, I had the cruise control in the upper 70s most of the trip and I was only averaging 9.5mpg. On my way back from Austin two days ago, I set the cruise control at 80 and was getting just under 12mpg. Those figures are with the 4.30 dually Supercab 4x4. I figure my engine will pretty much be broken in after I make this 4,500 mile trip from Dallas to Anchorage in about five weeks.
the ford v10 has a broader torque curve than the dodge v10. the ford gets much better mileage than the dodge v10. the dodge gets its power from shear displacement, while ford uses engine technology to get power and efficiency ( funny how i'm calling a 10 mpg engine efficient - )
i haven't driven either, but by looking at the torque curves and the numbers, i'd say the ford would be a better overall engine because you have about %80 full torque from about 1500 rpms all the way up past 3500, 4000. the dodge torque curve is not nearly as flat.
I would say the Dodge V10 would always win in a test of brute strength. Efficiency-wise, it's better than a big block V8, because each cylinder does less work, but won't be as good as the Ford V10.
But as the old line goes, if you have to ask about hte fuel economy of a truck, you can't afford to drive it. Or in the case of the diesel, don't complain about the cost of the engine if you're getting 20mpg out of a 7000-pound vehicle.
Check out JANUARYS 4- WHEELER MAGIZINE NISSAN BEATS FORD AND DODGE IN SHOOTOUT! RESULTS #1 CHEVY 5.3 #2 GMC 5.3 #3 NISSAN V-6 ha ha ha #4 DODGE with cummings #5 FORD with V-10 LETS HEAR SOME GOOD EXCUSES
I would like some info on fuel mileage on any 98/99 F350 superduty crewcab 4x4 diesels. Also what size axles would be best for pulling max. load construction trailers.
Goin to test drive the triton V-10 today... (found a dealer that has 3 in stock) Sure do appreciate all the feedback. It is however near impossible to locate a magnum v-10. Not a single dodge dealer south of 88 (chicago) has one in stock. (several dealers haven't even ordered one out this year 99) (What's wrong with this picture.)
[Shrug] Without knowing what they were testing, comparisons like that are meaningless. For what I wanted to do, that order would be just plain wrong. See the discussion in 204 for more.
Hey Vortec6000, what does the shootout compare? Can the little "mini truck" Nissan out-pull my Dodge Cummins? If smaller size and capability is the criteria, then yes the Chevy and Nissan wins. Congratulations on your award.
Those 4x4 rags tend to put heavy emphasis on recreational off-roading, which is certainly not the forte of either the Dodge Cummins or the Ford Super Duty. Those two trucks WORK for a living. I have all but given up on "**** of the Year" comparisons, because they're just not legit. I'll read a comparison test of vehicles I'm interested in, but don't tell me that vehicle X is the best one out of everything available, or even everything that's new that year.
Want to read a decent comparison? Check the Winter 98/99 issue of Open Road, and read the comparison of the F250SD Powerstroke against the Ram 2500 Cummins. The trucks were nearly identical in equipment, and were equipped with what was commonly known to be their better transmissions respectively - the Dodge had the 5 speed, the Ford with the automatic. That was the only difference, and really only affected one part of the test.
For an unbiased comparison of Ford vs. Dodge, check out Woodhouse Ford/Dodge's excellent site at www.woodhouse.com. They sell both brands of trucks and Bob Woodhouse, the proprietor, uses both brands to tow his race cars. Thus, he has probably more first hand experience with both Ford and Dodge trucks than anybody else. Click on "Diesels/Towing" for the good stuff.
I'm going to buy either a Dodge 5.2 5 speed or the Ford 4.6 5 speed. Has anybody heard anything about a comparison on the two. I pull a 18 ft. bass boat so I'm leaning toward the Dodge because its a little bigger motor. Why doesn't Ford offer the 5.6 with a 5 speed.
I am in a position of buying a full size truck from one of the big 3. My wants are v8, auto and some amenities. I drove the ford (4.6L 4 speed auto) and it looked great and rode smooth. BUT the transmission sucked. It shifted too much, with too much slip. I can't see that tranny lasting over time. In fact, every one of the used ones I've driven (to see how they wear over time) had a transmission that didn't shift correctly. What's up with that?? -> Drove the Dodge (5.2, auto) Liked it alot, but just worried about buying a Mopar (quality & durability issues). It had good power, the transmission was WAY better than the slippery ford, and it rode okay (not as good as the ford but it IS solid axle after all). -> Drove the old-style chevy (88-98). Awesome power (vortec v8), burned out off of a corner "by accident". Transmission was smooth and seemed to be as good or better than the dodge. I've always had good luck with the chevys...
For me I think it's between Chevy and Dodge. The dodge seems more attractive because the cost is $2000 less. BUT the dodge ex cabs are made in mexico...that concerns me. I dunno, i think I'm gonna have to drive the chevy and dodge again. By the way, the 99 silverado is nice...too nice for a truck that I'm gonna haul logs with and throw stuff in the back. Somehow with a ram or old style chevy I just dont care. I think the silverado is like using a BMW for a construction site. Too plush and cushy...don't want to scratch the pretty paint!
Not all Ram Quad Cabs are Mexican - most of them, in fact, come out of Missouri. And for the record, my 96 Ram Club does speak Spanish, and it's a damn good truck, because (for lack of a better phrase) I don't slow down for railroad tracks, and there are no body problems at all.
Well, first I would recommend deciding what you are going to use it for. Then realize you will buy a 4x4. Then test drive the Ford, Dodge, and GM trucks. Decide which features you want, settle on a price, and order one custom for you. This is the best way to get a great price on a great truck. Also, read the respective topics on the trucks to get a feel for what others are saying.
well cant really advise you as to dodge or chevy even thought I sell dodges, but I do agree that the chevy is too pretty and the ifs and front axle thing???? do you want a truck that works and acts like a truck with a fairly comfortable ride? Or do you want a truck that rides and drives like a cadillac with a bed on it????? besides ,,,,,,whats a truck for after all.....and as for the engines....wait til ya see what Rams are gonna have for 2000......hehehehe
zpook - check the tow ratings for the ford with the 5 speed. Quite low with the manual.....
I ended up buying the Silverado cuz it's tow rating is almost double the ford's when equipped with the 5 speed. Plus a little less expensive. I went with the 4.8L 5speed with 4.10 rearend. Tow rating 5500 lbs. Fords was about 1/2 that.
I read the article on Ram 2500 vs. Ford SD F-250. First, I don't understand the mentallity of testing 4x4 monster trucks. As a business man, I'm not interested in adding unnessary weight to an already big truck. I'm interested in hauling capacity and fuel milage. The bottom line I get from this article is that Ford's turbo comes on line almost instantly which gives it more getty-up-go, but less low end chugging where you need it, say...as when you need to haul out a big boat on a steep ramp. Instead the turbo kicks in and you have slippage, thus lost traction. The Dodge on the other hand may be slow, but it has that chugging power I need to pull loads. The article goes on to state that the Cummins towing fuel milage nearly matches that of Ford's non-towing milage. To me both trucks are good looking, but I dislike Dodge's interior. It does not seem as well thought out. For that matter I prefer the GM product when it comes to interior.
Resonse #134 Nissan/Vortec may be fuel efficient, but I'd like to see it haul a pallet of 3/4" plywood!
Response #144 kcram Finally, another person who jumps the tracks! I just hate to see somebody waste good money on a truck that tippy-toes over Rail Road tracks. Especially people who buy 4x4's!
Ready to retire and play golf all over this U.S. of A. Have bought 5th wheel trailer (27'10")which grosses out at 9100 lbs loaded. Have looked at 4x2 F-250 SD XLT and RAM 2500 SLT with very similar options. Both w/ their V-10's, Quad Cab or equivalent. So far impressed with the Dodge only because I could drive one as Ford had nothing on area lots. Dodge price is cheaper +1000. I am hearing here about Dodge transmissions and brakes but not on the 99's and I am hearing on the street about the Dodge V-10 "crank" may be suspect too. Must sell the house to carry out my plans and have time to get some input from you all. Am somewhat mechanically inclined (Check fluids, change oil etc.) and promise to take excellent care of the truck and trailer which means exceeding the manufacturers maintenance intervals. I am comfortable with the truck's specing out to the trailer results and feel the V-10 is more than enough although Dodge 4.10 vs Ford 4.30 rearend differences. In summary, I like the Dodge interior much more than Ford, especially the "bench seats" and overall cockpit design. Will probably order truck in 6 weeks because the Dodge dealer quoted a 6-8 week delivery. Ford said 14-16. I know there is 3 yr/36K warranty on truck (the trailer is a 2 year B-B) and feel I am covered for the near term but each time in the shop is less time on the links. Any words of wisdom and experience is surely welcomed. Thanks.
I shopped hard over the last year for a new truck. Although I bought a 1/2 ton Chevy, if I were purchasing a bigger tow vehicle I would have gone Ford SD with the v10 and 4.30 lim slip. My buddy bought one a couple of months ago, I recently drove it a couple of hundred miles. Best vehicle I have ever driven in that size range........ I previously owned a F350 diesel Crew Cab for 10 years. I have concerns about Dodge transmissions and brakes based on conversations with fellow MC racers that tow trailers.
Comments
Ford does use Cummins engines as options in their larger trucks (F650 and up).
We Ram owners hate people who use the g...
(above two posts are humorous but factual)
If this truck holds up like the Ford truck I just sold, my next vehicle will be another Ford truck. If it doesn't, I'll be checking out the latest offerings from Dodge and Chevy.
Plymouth, we've had numerous debates about whether the new Ford and Dodge really share much resemblence. Personally, I have yet to park next to Dodge that looked anything like my truck. If you feel that Ford copied the Dodge, you should take it as a compliment. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery. Dodge has a nice looking truck.
malibu1, maybe you should hire out your services as an ad consultant to the Big Three.
If the next Ram is on par with the Super Duty, as DaimlerChrysler is considering, and GM doesn't deliver on their heavy trucks (whenever they show up), look for Dodge to pass GM in sales. The General seems to be making marketing blunder after blunder (their off-the-record admission that they guessed wrong on the 4-door extended cab because they didn't think the Dodge would sell), and tenuous labor relations put the line at risk for another strike next year when the national UAW contract ends.
GM will only survive if they drop one of their truck lines. There is still no reason or excuse to have two virtually identical sets of trucks. make them all Chevy or all GMC. Just like the mass duplication of their cars, having to support two full truck lines is putting unnecessary drain on the company. How much cheaper would the Silverado be if if there was no Sierra to build, with its differences in front-end sheetmetal and trim? You can get a dually for the same price as one of these Suilverados now.
After this summer's strike, it's clear who is running GM. No one.
I wanted a strong gas motor, so thats what
i got. And no, I don't want the dodge v10.
Not saying the Cummins is for everybody. The problem with the Ford V10 is, it's the only engine besides the Powerstroke that can move the Super Duty truck. The 5.4 V8 is useless. Dodge gives you appreciable power with the V8, the V10, and the diesel. But I do know a fair number of Ford AND Dodge owners who would run like hell to a Ford dealer to buy a Cummins-powered Super Duty truck.
bunkski,
The Dodge V10 will outrun a comparably-equipped Ford V10. Ford has more axle ratio choices to get the power to the ground, making it seem more powerful in certain configurations.
At the same time, the numbers speak for themselves. The Dodge has 300hp and 440 lb-ft of torque, compared to the 275/410 for the Ford. If you hook up a large trailer that gets close to maxing your tow limits, the Dodge is almost certainly going to have an easier time maintaining highway speeds, especially in hilly or mountainous terrain. Then again, most people who tow near their max limits usually opt for the high torque diesels.
that MT test caused a lot of discussion in some other chat groups. For one thing, the Ford had a lower (numerically higher) axle. The Ford's transmission also was much faster to downshift than the Dodge; the Ram stayed in gear and just used its torque to accelerate. I tend to read comparison tests like these with a very suspicious eye for details like that. Unless the magazine orders and waits for two truly comparable trucks in terms of body, engine, and drivetrain, these tests aren't really worth much.
I haven't heard many mpg figures for the Dodge V-10 either, so there really isn't much to compare it to. Even if you did have some figures, you would get into the issue of differing axle ratios. If I'm not mistaken, the Dodge has the 3.54 and the 4.10 compared to the Ford's 3.73 and 4.30.
I can vouch that I'm more than satisfied with my Ford V-10. The mpg is still climbing. On my 300 mile trip back from the dealership a couple of months ago, I had the cruise control in the upper 70s most of the trip and I was only averaging 9.5mpg. On my way back from Austin two days ago, I set the cruise control at 80 and was getting just under 12mpg. Those figures are with the 4.30 dually Supercab 4x4. I figure my engine will pretty much be broken in after I make this 4,500 mile trip from Dallas to Anchorage in about five weeks.
i haven't driven either, but by looking at the torque curves and the numbers, i'd say the ford would be a better overall engine because you have about %80 full torque from about 1500 rpms all the way up past 3500, 4000. the dodge torque curve is not nearly as flat.
But as the old line goes, if you have to ask about hte fuel economy of a truck, you can't afford to drive it. Or in the case of the diesel, don't complain about the cost of the engine if you're getting 20mpg out of a 7000-pound vehicle.
I agree that GM should drop GMC and just use the one label for trucks. I think that is the way to go.
Malibu1
RESULTS
#1 CHEVY 5.3
#2 GMC 5.3
#3 NISSAN V-6 ha ha ha
#4 DODGE with cummings
#5 FORD with V-10
LETS HEAR SOME GOOD EXCUSES
More details please!
I wouldn't buy another Nissan even if in beat out a Hummer!
Want to read a decent comparison? Check the Winter 98/99 issue of Open Road, and read the comparison of the F250SD Powerstroke against the Ram 2500 Cummins. The trucks were nearly identical in equipment, and were equipped with what was commonly known to be their better transmissions respectively - the Dodge had the 5 speed, the Ford with the automatic. That was the only difference, and really only affected one part of the test.
-> Drove the Dodge (5.2, auto) Liked it alot, but just worried about buying a Mopar (quality & durability issues). It had good power, the transmission was WAY better than the slippery ford, and it rode okay (not as good as the ford but it IS solid axle after all).
-> Drove the old-style chevy (88-98). Awesome power (vortec v8), burned out off of a corner "by accident". Transmission was smooth and seemed to be as good or better than the dodge. I've always had good luck with the chevys...
For me I think it's between Chevy and Dodge. The dodge seems more attractive because the cost is $2000 less. BUT the dodge ex cabs are made in mexico...that concerns me. I dunno, i think I'm gonna have to drive the chevy and dodge again. By the way, the 99 silverado is nice...too nice for a truck that I'm gonna haul logs with and throw stuff in the back. Somehow with a ram or old style chevy I just dont care. I think the silverado is like using a BMW for a construction site. Too plush and cushy...don't want to scratch the pretty paint!
Not all Ram Quad Cabs are Mexican - most of them, in fact, come out of Missouri. And for the record, my 96 Ram Club does speak Spanish, and it's a damn good truck, because (for lack of a better phrase) I don't slow down for railroad tracks, and there are no body problems at all.
Also, read the respective topics on the trucks to get a feel for what others are saying.
Good luck,
Ryan
Do you have info on the type of new engines Dodge is putting in their trucks? OHC, SFI, displacements, etc?
old new
3.9 OHV V6 3.7 OHC V6
5.2 OHV V8 4.7 OHC V8
5.9 OHV V8 5.5 OHC V8
Hope that helps
I ended up buying the Silverado cuz it's tow rating is almost double the ford's when equipped with the 5 speed. Plus a little less expensive. I went with the 4.8L 5speed with 4.10 rearend. Tow rating 5500 lbs. Fords was about 1/2 that.
Nissan/Vortec may be fuel efficient, but I'd like to see it haul a pallet of 3/4" plywood!
Response #144 kcram
Finally, another person who jumps the tracks! I just hate to see somebody waste good money on a truck that tippy-toes over Rail Road tracks. Especially people who buy 4x4's!
I don't back off on potholes, either
I've logged about 5% of my milage in air time in my little 4x4. But, I'm ready for a BIG TRUCK! I'm gonna go crush a BMW!
I have concerns about Dodge transmissions and brakes based on conversations with fellow MC racers that tow trailers.