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FORD VS DODGE
Does anyone have any thoughts why the Ford 150 is
rated so well by Edmunds and others when the NHTSA
website for the Office of Defects Investigation
identifies 276 complaints for the 1997 Ford 150 and
only 7 for the Dodge Ram? The number of
investigations resulting was 9 for Ford and 2 for
Ram. Maybe it is just due to more Ford 150s out
there, but I wonder....
rated so well by Edmunds and others when the NHTSA
website for the Office of Defects Investigation
identifies 276 complaints for the 1997 Ford 150 and
only 7 for the Dodge Ram? The number of
investigations resulting was 9 for Ford and 2 for
Ram. Maybe it is just due to more Ford 150s out
there, but I wonder....
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Comments
tcw,
Would you give us that website. Since I recently bought an F150, I'd like to see what I have to look forward to.
www.nhtsa.dot.gov
then select CARS and then scroll to customer complaints.
Still, it's a good idea to check and see just what it is that Ford (and Dodge) customers are complaining about.
It would be even better if those who are making the complaints would discuss them here. After all, that's one of the purposes of this forum... to talk about the bad as well as the good.
CENTER ARMREST DOESN'T LOCK IN DOWN POSITION, CAUSING ANY DRINK IN CUP HOLDER TO BE LAUNCHED EASILY.
LIGHT RATTLING IN STEERING SECTOR.
WHEN DRIVING THROUGH TALL GRASS, THE GRASS GETS CUT OFF/FALLS ON THE TRANSMISSION CROSS
MEMBER, WHERE IT IS IGNITED BY THE HEAT FROM THE EXHAUST PIPE
GRAB BAR ON VEHICLE IS POORLY DESIGNED, CONSUMER HITS HEAD ON BAR
LEATHER SEAT BACK UPHOLSTERY CLINGS TO BACK
ASHTRAY COVER FAILED.
CIGARET LIGHTER COVER SPINS.
"Brakes failed completely for 2 seconds then re-engaged" - can you say "newbie to 4 wheel ABS"? That's exactly what it feels like when you nail the brakes on my 96 3500. If you had legitimate brake failure of any kind, all the brake warning lights would come on and stay on.
"Can't see at night..., have to use dimmer to see". well, duh, it's a 3500 - it's a lot higher off the ground than a Mazda Miata - try reaiming the headlights...
And one under 1996 Ram 3500:
"due to premature wear every two months and 12,000 miles, the front brakes have to be changed". If this is NOT a typo, then yeah, going 12 thousand miles every 2 months WOULD require brakes that often. My front pads basically last about a year, my rear shoes will probably make 3 years. I drive about 18K a year, with quite a bit of stop-and-go.
I agree, lwf - quite a few of these are silly - more likely from first-time truck buyers swayed by the current promotion of trucks as the "thing to buy" right now.
I looked up Chevy and Ford 3/4 ton complaints and found that there were 23 complaints for a 1997 Ford F250 and 11 for Chevy 2500. The Chevy was listed as CK2500 and C2500.
Among the people I know who own pickups the following is an unscientific summary of what I have heard over the past 4 years:
Chevy Pickup:
Some transmission problems, but only with those who abuse their equipment.
Satisfied with overall quality and are satisfied with gas mileage with the 350 and 454 Vortec engine
Ford Pickup:
Suspension problems with twin I beam pre 1996 models. Can't keep front end alligned
Diesel 7.3 is expensive to repair if it breaks. Generally dissatisfied with fuel mileage on 5.4L gas and 7.3L diesel. Some 7.3L diesel owners are happy with their fuel mileage and reliability.
Dodge Pickup:
All cummins owners I have talked with are happy with their trucks with the exception of one who has 90K miles and says he doesn't have the power he once had. He has never adjusted the valves and I understand you should do this ever 25K miles according to my local dealer.
Owners with the 360 gas motor like its power but are very disappointed with fuel mileage.
Owners with the V10 love the power but are unhappy with the mileage.
Dodge owners say their Rams nickel and dime you alot with small repairs. I have a '78 RV with a 440 and this has been true for me.
The happiest pickup owners seem to be those with Chevys/GMCs with the vortec 350 and next would be Ram owners with the cummins.
The Fords have given no problems and we're more than happy with the stock suspension.
The chevy's have great power but trannies have given out in three of them. Their suspensions are also spongy compared to the Fords.
We own more Chevy's than the others but I have been most satisfied with Ford.
I'm thinking of buying a new Ford F350 diesel, but after reading your comments, I think I'm going to wait so Ford can work out all the problems before I buy. Any recalls on new F-350 trucks that you know about?
Ford recently issued a recall for the new SuperDuty related to the steering column and parking brake. In mid-production, they also found a problem with the Shift-on-the-Fly (SOF) 4wd. They changed the SOF on the trucks that were in process and all future trucks being built. My guess is that the people who bought earlier trucks with the original SOF will be able to get it fixed for free at their dealers in the future. These are the kinds of kinks they are working out. It may be a minor inconvenience to take it to the dealer, but the repairs will be free and shouldn't take very long.
If you decide to wait for the next model year of the SuperDuty, you will probably have to wait until September of 99. Although they started production of the SuperDuty line in January of this year, it is a 99 model. The 2000 MY trucks won't be available until late 99. Any glitches with the SuperDuty before then will probably be something that the dealers will fix for free like the problems we've seen so far.
One word answer:YES. Please don't find out on your own about the Ram sucking the money right out of your pocket! Both Rams that I own, are pieces of crap. Yes, no major problem has arised but then again, none should. First, those wheel-bearings will slip and get loose. Second, watch the fly-wheel. Sounds like the 60's but seriously watch it. This is the first vehicle to have these type of problems in a long while.
Dodge does throw in a powerful engine selection at the people but don't be fooled. Are you going to race anyone? Of course not, reconsider Ford and Chevy.
Are you buying it for the Cummins? Then I could understand. Are you buying it for the looks? Then you better have a fair amount of nickels and dimes.
I purchased a used 97 F-250 4X4 Lariat extended cab, with all the options: Trailer towing package, 5.4L V8, 4 speed auto, Leather, CD changer... etc. We took a long trip in it (a total over 2 days of 17 hours), and found that this truck was more uncomfortable than the 92 4X2 Toyota pickup I also own. The seats have no support in them, and even with the 8 way power drivers seat and lumbar support my back was aching within 4 hrs. of the journey. In addition to this, the transmission shifted hard during acceleration, with a loud clanking sound, and the overdrive could not make up its mind on whether to stay engaged or not.
I have a friend who owned the same vehicle (except for the engine, he had the diesel) and after a dozen trips to the dealer for work on his transmission, and other small items, in frustration he sold the truck and is purchasing a new 99 superduty.
After our last trip, and rumors of the problems with our first year redesigned Ford, we are ready to sell.
We plan on using the truck to pull our horse trailer, and eventually a 5th wheel. We want a three quarter ton extended cab 4X4, with either a v-10, or a diesel, and we want it to be comfortable. Most of the horse shows are half way across the U.S., and we need something that will be comfortable on extended trips. However, quality is extremely important to us, as we have plans to purchase this truck and hold on to it until it falls apart. Which brings me to my main question - which one, Ford Superduty, or Dodge?
I have done my research on Ford, and Dodge, and both appear to be a great vehicle. Both have similar towing ratings, H.P., options, etc. I have spoken to many Dodge owners, and all seemed pleased with the truck. Because of its so new, I've only spoken to one person who has driven a Ford Superduty.
As with most people, I cannot afford to keep buying, and trading vehicles. I would love to hear everyones response, technical or otherwise. I want to purchase one more truck, and only one more. Thank you in advance!
I ordered the leather interior for my Superduty (I haven't received it yet). I read somewhere that one reviewer felt the cloth seats were more comfortable. That might be a consideration.
One question - you said you had a 97 F250 with the 5.4, and a friend had the same truck, but with a diesel. The 1997 F250 that had the 5.4 was the light duty 250 (that looks like the 150). The 1997 diesel powered 250 is from the old body style. If you both had the old-body truck, then you might have had a 351, not a 5.4.
The Ford Super Duty 4x4 is approximately 3 or 4" taller than the comparable Dodge, depending on configuration. The Ford also rides on larger diameter tires. I second Brutus's recommendation of measuring your trailer to make sure there will be no problems.
I have a Cummins-powered Dodge, and it's the best truck I've ever driven. But it's strictly my opinion. Brutus will rave (I'm sure) about his Super Duty when he gets it. They are both excellent heavy duty trucks, and it will be a seat-of-the-pants thing that makes you decide which one to get if you have no brand loyalty. If you prefer gasoline, the Dodge will be stronger; if you prefer diesel, the Powerstroke will come off the line better. Since you are traveling long distances regularly, I would recommend the diesel so that you won't be stopping every three counties to tank up. Both diesels will cruise well into the 20s mpg-wise.
My main fault from behind the wheel of the Dodge is its extremely wide A-pillars (makes some left turns an adventure), and my fault of the Ford is lack of gauge infromation (all the auxiliary gauges read low-normal-high with no indication of what they're really doing).
As I have mentioned to others, I'm not surprised that you have no interest in a GM heavy duty truck. Nothing beats a live front axle and real springs (long leaves on the Ford, gigantic coils on the Dodge) when you really need a truck to take a beating for a living.
what exactly is dodge's set up on the heavy duty front ends? are you talking about 2 or 4 wheel drive. i thought they were a-frame, but i could have swore i've seen 2 wheel drive dodge's with some kind of flat axle, i've never been close enough to one examine it.
on looks alone, both the ford and dodge look tougher than the GM's. they look like peterbilts, while the GM's look like, well, pickups. i think that sells a lot by itself. but you can look at reliabilities, and the A-frame set up has been tough and reliable. brutus will argue that GM does not have any fleet service and does not get put throught the rough like Fords I-beam, but I have put them through them, and know of different oil companies and hot shot services around south texas who have chevy fleets, driven by workers who don't own the trucks, don't care, and pound the trucks when going between drilling sites, which means lots of pulling on lots miles on undeveloped rough roads. they hold up.
the unreliable part on the GMs that i would not want is the 4 wheel drives. if you know you are going to pound a truck, you want a solid axle. but if you are a part time off roader, the open axle provides excellent, smoother ride. whatever floats your boat.
anyway, i am curious to what the dodge front ends are, on the 2 wheel drives, half tons and 1 tons.
Yes, the Ram 4x2 uses an oversize Short/Long arm suspension, but both the 4x2 and 4x4 sit on coils. The 4x4 front end is an enlarged version of the Grand Cherokee front end in its design. The 3500 4x2 Chassis cab sits on a flat I-beam axle.
I mentioned the 4x4 front end in my post because Groov was in the market for a 4x4...
I owned a 95 Ram Club Cab 4x4 with the 5.2 and recently purchased a 98 quad cab 4x4 with the 5.9., and my brother has a 96 club with the Cummins. My advice would be to definitely go with the 5.9 or the Cummins, unless your talking V10. The 5.9's power is delivered much smoother than that of the 5.2. As for nickle and dime problems, I traded the 95 with 55,000 miles with no complaints whatsoever. The 98 is in the shop right now getting a new rear end installed. This is a major problem, but between the 3 trucks, this is the first incident. I've been very satisfied with comfort, power and ruggedness of the Dodge and would highly recommend one. The ford is also a great truck, but I have friends who have had little problems with those too. The Ford does have more a "car" feel to it. The ride is smoother, but I like that "big truck" feel. Good luck with your selection.
Problem is: false advertising. These things cost as much as a full-size. Only the T-100 is comparable in size. Ever check out sticker prices on the Dakota? Too rich for the typical buyer of a compact who is placing economy with a practical side.
I personally like the Dakota and I feel that its size would be great for alot of people who don't need a full-size and don't want a compact. The grille is a little too much, though, reminds me of Ram jr. Baby sheep. The old grille was classier with bland but decent lines. Then again, the Ranger and S-10 are'nt much better are they?
I'm curious, hey E3MP6, how much did your truck cost? What kind of rear did they give or do you get an option?
The fact that Dodge is having problems with their rears is not a issue to overlook. I have'nt heard of a comparable amount of Chevys having those type of problems. I've known four guys personally who have problems with a Ram rear.
Does anyone else know about this or are these flukes? Every truck has its annoyances but major problems should'nt arise so early on a new truck. Is it typical Dodge quality control of yesteryear?
I've seen similar responses in other conferences in relation to their cars. Are looks getting in the way? Maybe Mercedes will improve this situation.
MSRP sticker says $24,445, but I got it for $21K
the dealer still made a bit off of me, but I'm happy with the deal. The high cost is 'cause it's a V8 4x4 SLT+, loaded to the gills except for larger alternator, battery,engine block heater, and I also kept the stick. No auto tranny for me.
The sizing(as mentioned by Rocles) is perfect for my needs. I'm 6'4", most of that is in my legs. S-10's and Rangers cramp my style, and I had no desire to move from my little Mazda 323 hatchback to a full-sized truck. I love the size. It's big enough to haul stuff in (without making extra trips, like in S-10/Ranger), but small enough to be easy to drive in city traffic (but just barely). Also, by taking the truck only slightly smaller than a full-size, I was able to add more options and still stay in my price cap without sacrificing too much load capability.
My only complaint is that it's hard as Hades to park after driving my Mazda POS for 4 years
you can get the Z71 option on any model of chevy truck. i've even seen Z71 Tahoes and Suburbans. Z71 is a $250 option that basically gives you Bilstein off road shocks (makes for awesome smooth ride), skid plates over the engine and transfer case, and a couple of cool looking stickers that everyone seems to love. i don't think there are anymore mechanical differences. for 250$, its pretty good deal. i price the shocks alone and retail price was $70 apiece.
Z71 is all shocks. Which, at NAPA, cost only 60 dollars. The one unique item is the dumb decal. Skid plates are included but who wouldn't throw that in a deal anyway? I'm almost positive that truck had to be a short bed. Now if it was an extended cab then some people have rethink their truck possibilities. I have to check Edmunds to find out.
21k? I'm wondering if you checked out any full-size truck. Sounds as though you wouldn't want it anyway.
extended cabs, regular cabs, surburbans, tahoes
and short bed or long beds
or any combination of the lot.
That's just further proof that the manufacturers and the dealers are pushing for the general public to buy trucks. If you want a work/commercial truck, you generally have to order it and wait, but it you want a leather-clad half ton 4x4 with every option and then some, you have your pick right there on the lot.
He only wanted a half-ton for firewood and his chairs in which he makes. He can't even drive this truck! Too big and it sucks his gas.
All of this would have been prevented if he listened to us before he bought the behemoth. I agree that people have the right to drive what they want, they also have the right to be ignorant like my pop-pop.
The Chevy was ext. cab, but short bed. Ran into it again. The owner lives next door to my old college roomate.
At 21K, yes I did look at full sized trucks, but only the Ram. I don't like the styling on the Chevy or Ford line (But I love the new SuperDuty!). Most of my driving is city driving, and the smaller Dakota (vs. Ram) is a lot easier to drive in traffic, but like I said, a beast to park after driving a Mazda 323 for 4 years.
Also, I was able to get more of the bells and whistles in the Dakota and stay in my price range. I spend lots of time in my truck (3300 miles in the 1st month, and I'm only home on weekends) and I might as well be comfortable.
Sounds as though you are a rare man. You actually bought a truck right for you and that is how we should all do it! I agree that the Dakota is the right size for most but I wish that Chevy and Ford would come out with a mid-size. Nothing like more models to compete with to get the best buy. Problem with the Dakota is that only the Toy T-100 is comparable. Once they discontinue that model, Dodge will be by itself again.
That is impressive about the length of your truck to the Chevy.
LOL= Laughing out loud.
Hey Huejanus, do your parents know you are on the computer? Grow up little man.
Isn't that the beauty of resale though? Yeah, it drinks gas like a camel at a water fountain. No doubt! It will sell like one also!
I know about the ego. I have a firm with many trucks but I also own a personal one. Now, I don't need the 5.4 that Ford offers, but then again, I don't need THREE motorcycles either! LOL
Have fun with your truck.
Happy Independence Day everyone!