I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

texases · January 2011

Yeah, Ford pulled the old 'bait and switch'. IIRC, they showed a 'Ghia Barchetta', got a good reaction, then said they'd put it into production...didn't quite look the same!

fintail · January 2011

Wow, could be the best out there...buy it now seems kinda steep though. Gotta be glacially slow with the slushbox too.

I like that Duett the seller has.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2011

That 144 automatic would be a total slug. You could time 0-60 with an egg timer. No thanks.

As a 4-speed for half the price, I'd be interested.

stickguy · January 2011

brings back memories of the '69 144 (4 speed) that my family had when I was a kid, and that I learned to drive on. I loved that car. My sisters hated it.

now, this caught my eye (at the end of the write up about the green one):

" We also have a rust free 1972 144 "project car" with a professionally installed Volvo 2.4L 5 Cyl. fitted with the largest turbocharger we could fit under the hood. Power is transferred to the ground with a Ford T9 5 speed gearbox. It is an incomplete project that needs to be finished "

now this, I want! what though is a t9? I assume a manual? Would not take an AT in a beast like that.

wonder how hard it is to take a transverse engine like that and make it work north-south? Heck, maybe that is why it is unfinished!

texases · January 2011

"fitted with the largest turbocharger we could fit under the hood"

Uh-oh - motor mods by the 'what'll fit' school...sure sign of a ticking bomb :sick:

explorerx4 · January 2011

Maybe they meant T-5
There also was a T-9

stickguy · January 2011

after reading this: The fifth, or overdrive gear, was added to the four-speed gearbox by placing it in the extension housing or tailshaft housing. This made production easier and cheaper but effectively limited torque capacity to 200 lb. ft. or so.

about the t-9, I hope they did not use that on a turbo motor. T-5 from the mustang sounds much more likely.

andys120 · January 2011

As I was pulling up to my Mother-in-law's condo in Arizona I saw a familiar but out-of-context shape parked in front of the unit next to hers. It was clearly a two-tone 1950s car and as I got closer I realized it was a mid-50s Cadillac.

It turned out to be a 1956 Caddy Eldorado and it was in near-conours condition-White vinyl over red/2dr. H/T with matching upholstery; paint and chrome were close to perfect with period correct whitewalls gold-trimmed full wheel covers and an Ohio Antique Car plate.

I happened to see a couple of 1958 Eldos last week at the Russo & Steele car auction in Scottsdale and this 56 , though large was not quite as enormous as the '58s.

It looked very much like the one in this factory photo. A very impressive sight indeed.

uplanderguy · January 2011

I don't believe I ever saw a '56 Eldorado. I think it's funny that when you got the more expensive car, they removed some trim and the fender skirts!

When I was a kid, the older guy who lived behind us, who was a Chevy and Cadillac salesman in our small town, had a '56 Sixty Special 4-door. It would have been ten years old at that time, but it looked in real nice condition. It was a creamy white color, and he towed a small trailer with it. Must have been a good car as ten years old, back then, snowy/salty NW PA, wreaked its havoc on cars.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2011

The '56 Eldo was probably in response to the '56 Lincoln Mark II, which was very cleanly styled as well. This trend didn't work, as cars got more and more of the "birthday cake" treatment until it peaked in the excesses of 1958...which gave us some of the ugliest cars of the 50s.

andys120 · January 2011

Sounds logical Shifty except that you may have it backwards. The Eldo was introduced in '53 with GMs first production wraparound windshield with the uncluttered styling that categorized the Eldo until 1959 (even the '58 was clean compared to others of that year).

The Conti II seems to have been Ford's reaction to the success of the Eldo. BTW-there's a lively discussion about whether the Continental Mk II should be called a "Lincoln". Wikipedia refers to the "Continental Division of Ford Motor" and states Ford wanted a superior and standalone up-market brand aside from Lincoln.

OTOH they acknowledge that it was sold thru Lincoln-Mercury dealerships.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2011

Well you are right that Ford came out with the Mark II to compete with the Eldo---but the Lincoln carried the idea of stripping the body to a minimalist level to an extreme, don't you think?

This "return to classicism" of course, might have been a bridge too far for the american mindset of 1956. It was hard to sell an American luxury car in 1956 that didn't look like a Las Vegas casino.

andys120 · January 2011

the Lincoln carried the idea of stripping the body to a minimalist level to an extreme, don't you think?

By 1956 standards the Mark was minimalist but there were other '55-'56 designs that were as well>

The Chrysler 300B lacked the excessive chrome cluttering up other MoPar designs>

The two-seater T-Birds of '55 were clutter-free. The '56 would have been if they'd resisted the temptation to put the spare on the bumper>.

It's too bad the tend didn't last, '56 was "my favorite year".

Mr_Shiftright · January 2011

Yes it does seem like '56 was the year when '55s (a truly watershed year in American automotive history) were improved; then, due to something in the water, they started acting funny in Detroit in '57 and by '58 they had pretty much gone collectively mad. :P

After wandering through the desert in delirium, with occasional moments of clarity, the D3 finally stumbles into an oasis of coherence. This journey took some 6 years to complete.

This next "watershed" year was 1964, when the stars once again aligned in Detroit with the tri-power GTO and a string of hits out of the D3.

uplanderguy · January 2011

I love Mark II Continentals and haven't thought about one for a long while.

So clean. Long hood, short deck, big rear wheel openings, understated instrument panel and seat trim, top-notch materials. I remember reading that the wheel covers were assembled by hand--I mean, each vane installed by hand.

I love them in a dark color. I also really like the '61-63 Continentals. I've long been interested in the JFK assassination, and to this day associate those Continentals with that tragic event. I recently watched an internet program about his limo, and other cars in his detail were standard Continental convertibles, and how that was a perfect car for a new generation of president such as JFK. I agree.

lemko · January 2011

The 1956 Cadillac secret service car that was behind JFK's Continental on that tragic day is still in existence as well.

andre1969 · January 2011

I think I first saw a picture of one of those Mark II's in an old encyclopedia set my grandparents had (and hopefully is still packed away somewhere, as it's a nice nostalgia set). I think they got it sometime in the early 1950's, but every year they'd put out a book called "The Year in Review" or something like that, and there'd always be an auto section. I don't think I've looked through those books since the early 1980's.

I remember as a kid, thinking how futuristic that Mark II looked. It looked nothing like any other car of its era.

explorerx4 · January 2011

The amazing thing to me is that the Kennedy asissination limo was upgraded and used through Carter administration, until being donated to the Henry Ford Museum.
For me, it's creepy to see, but not as creepy as the chair Abraham Lincoln was sitting in when he was shot, also at the Henry Ford.

uplanderguy · January 2011

Thanks for posting...I wasn't aware this car survived. I just recently finished the 2010 book 'The Kennedy Detail' by Gerald Blaine. It details a lot of that day, as well as protecting the Kennedys on a daily basis, from the perspective of the Secret Service agents, several of whom are still with us including Clint Hill who jumped up on JFK's limo in Dallas and guided Jackie back into the car before it sped away.

uplanderguy · January 2011

I, too, have always been amazed that the car JFK was assassinated in, was painted black, reupholstered, and reused by subsequent presidents. There are images of the car online, from the weekend of the assasination, after it was driven back to the White House garage from Andrews Air Force Base.

explorerx4 · January 2011

I would not have wanted to be that driver.

wevk · January 2011

http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/Auto-00_Index.htm

imidazol97 · January 2011

At a cruise-in a fellow had a car that was a secret service car from the time of the Kennedy assassination. He had a Kennedy book open with a parade picture, perhaps the same one as the museum above. The memory I have is that the car was supposed to have been involved.

explorerx4 · January 2011

I'm not sure which one I like better, the '65 Riviera or '68 Charger.

fintail · January 2011

Cool link, I like the history given on the cars, and that he's the original owner of a few

Mr_Shiftright · January 2011

Well his taste in cars was way better than his taste in music, I'll say that.

uplanderguy · February 2011

A black Avanti is a rarity for sure. I've read that at some point Studebaker started charging extra for black because of the extra work involved in making it look good on a fiberglass body. I like the '65 Riv GS a lot too. Richard was largely a Mopar guy and his Dad had usually bought Mopars through the years.

I've seen that website before and am impressed with the way he answers questions from fans.

wevk · February 2011

I like the 63 Gran Prix, clean like the 61-63 Continental but not as "heavy" looking.

http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/Auto-12%201963%20Pontiac%20Grand%20Prix.- htm

jljac · February 2011

A black Avanti is a rarity for sure.

The only black Studebaker Avanti I ever heard of was painted for James Bond author Ian Flemming. It was one of the early ones and it took so many additional hours of body preparation that they quit offering that color.

I have an Avanti color selector manual (to match interior and exterior colors) and Studebaker Avantis were offered in white, red, gold, gray, turquoise and black BUT I believe that Studebaker quit offering black after the Iam Flemming car was prepared. The Avanti IIs and later versions were offered in any color the customer wanted.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

I think an Avanti would look terrible in black.

But a GT Hawk looks pretty okay:

http://www.cars-on-line.com/49324.html

uplanderguy · February 2011

I remember seeing a production order (build sheet) for a '64 Avanti R3 that Dan Booth of Nostalgic Avanti was working on back at his shop. It was built in black and was assembled on 11/22/63. I think I have heard (although not certain) that black was not offered, then offered, then not offered, then made an extra-cost color.

uplanderguy · February 2011

Quite a few GT's were made in black. I think dark colors do look best on a GT.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

Yes, a car with "formal" lines does better, it seems, in a darker color. White Squarebirds or period Benz sedans don't look very good in white or yellow or pale green, etc., IMO.

andys120 · February 2011

Speaking of "Squarebirds," I saw a white one with four tailights ('58 or '59?).
As so often happens in AZ it was in good shape but white didn't do it any favors but then I'm of the opinion that white doesn't help most cars.

fintail · February 2011

Yesterday I saw a gorgeous S500 coupe, ca. 94-96, in capri blue with period correct 18" AMG monoblocks. If only those cars didn't have a few achilles heels.

Also saw a Corolla wagon ca. 1980 - a 5 speed RWD (I am pretty sure) Toyota wagon? The brand had soul once?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

Toyota and soul? I can't seem to put the two together. Maybe a little bit in the Supra Twin Turbo and the MR2. Well, if not soul, at least a little excitement!

fintail · February 2011

Well, a light 5 speed RWD wagon has some fun potential, even if it is lightly powered. And I find old Cressidas, 80s Supras, and first gen 4-Runners etc. to be much more interesting than the beige boxes they make now.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

Yeah in theory, until you actually drive one I think. Then the ennui returns. :P

fintail · February 2011

But certainly no more so than in a 2011 Corolla.

Toyota made some at least pseudo-sporty products once...heck, the 5 door Camry looks daring compared to new ones.

stickguy · February 2011

well, a stick shift, rear wheel drive wagon would be about the only thing that would get me back into a toyota dealership.

This is exactly what I want in my next car. But unless BMW is making one these days, it would have to be quite used at this point (due to the pesky problem with BMW prices!)

berri · February 2011

That's an interesting link. I had heard that Richard Carpenter was a Mopar fan, although his collection is certainly broader than that. As for Mopars, it appears he bought efficiently, rather than splurging on the big dollar units. For example, a 56 300 instead of a 55 and 59's instead of 57's. He got similar cars at likely much better prices and probably with some of the initial kinks worked out. Overall, a nice assortment of different cars. Thanks for posting it.

uplanderguy · February 2011

I think an Avanti would look terrible in black.

Richard Carpenter has one, and here's one from which the photo was taken from the Avanti's best angle I think. I think it's striking. This is also a supercharged one, from the front fender emblem.

http://02a1392.netsolhost.com/mcvcg/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Avanti-34-4.jpg

I could see a college-professor-type climbing out of this one, with patches on his jacket elbows and smoking a pipe!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

It's a nice looking car when you don't have to see the nose of it.

jljac · February 2011

I stand corrected on black Avantis. There were 32 of the 1964 model built, they did cost $35.50 extra. Additionally of the 9 R-3s built at the factory, two of them were black.

I never knew that a few Avantis were painted maroon. Here is a very good review of Avanti production http://www.sagebrushstudebaker.com/tw_intrst8.html

At the time the article was written Avanti still had the record of the fastest (top speed) American production automobile offered to the public.

uplanderguy · February 2011

Looks fine to me!

Here's where we split on opinions, jljac--I love '62 Corvettes!

andre1969 · February 2011

But now, to fully appreciate it, could we get a shot of that from the rear?

jljac · February 2011

I am not dissin' Corvettes, I am just saying that some good looking cars are not best viewed directly from the front. The Avanti is one of those cars, although I personally like it.

The '62 Corvette looks better from the rear too, but that part of it is from a '63. (I don't know how the chick looks from the rear, but the Corvette probably ate her shortly after the picture was taken.)

andre1969 · February 2011

That Avanti is pretty goofy looking from the front. Makes me think a bit of a Miata with the headilghts stuck open! Or some kind of Japanese anime cartoon character.

I never noticed how "smiley face" that lower opening looks when viewed from dead-on. It's not as noticeable from an angle.

I always thought the Avantis were neat looking cars, futuristic and exotic for the time, especially when you consider Studebaker wasn't long for the world at the time! But I think I'd rather have a Hawk.

uplanderguy · February 2011

I will say this, unless the Avanti is black, I like the mid-year '63 addition of an actual grille below the bumper. I don't care for the square headlight enclosures and fake woodgrain inside on the '64's; I prefer the round headlights and simpler instrument panel of the '63's. I also like how everything inside an Avanti is deeply padded, wherever you look.

stickguy · February 2011

it actually reminds me of a bug eye sprite from the front.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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