I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

kyfdx

My car collector friend just rounded out his Corvette collection (C1, C2, etc...). Corvettes really aren't his main interest, but it keeps his teenage son connected..

'66 convertible, with 427 and factory side pipes... In a nice light/medium blue color... Went over to see it last night..

NICE!!

Mr_Shiftright

which 427, do you know?

berri

Those cars got fairly decent mileage for the time as well.

kyfdx

Nope... but, I'll see him today... what am I asking?

andre1969

According to my old car book, there were two 427's that year. One had 390 hp and one had 425.

kyfdx

Oh, that... I did ask him... (not that I knew what the choices were..)

390 HP..

ab348

I started at my first job late in '79 and before too long got involved with our acquisition of an IBM computer system. Our IBM sales guy had a '79 Caprice coupe with the 350, F41 suspension, and what I think was a "snowflake" style alloy or styled steel wheel. Car was black and silver two-tone with a red interior. Man, that was a nice car.

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, alas---big difference in value between those two 427s.

ab348

That '79 Park Avenue looks a lot like the one I used to own 7-8 years ago. It was a big boat of a car even though it was downsized from the truly massive tuna boats of '71-'76. Really a very nice car, far more stately than the lantern-jawed Gran Fury illustrated.

My insurance agent brother got a '79 or '80 New Yorker as a company car back at that time -- dark blue with a silver-gray interior. I remember liking the fallaway dash but being unimpressed with the rattly windows and the general ride and feel of the car. Chrysler walked away from that part of the market when they did away with their big cars in '78.

Of all the domestic luxocars of the late 70s/early 80s I think my favorite was the early '80s Lincoln Town Car. It seemed to drive nicely without being too soft or too big. My experience was based on a few rentals and one memorable weekend in '84 acting as chauffeur for my then stepbrother's fiance as she spent a weekend doing wedding errands. He let me borrow his Town Car while he was out of town, so I could assist her. I was a perfect gentleman despite having this gorgeous, hot-looking young lady, looking rather like a young Meg Foster with those ice-blue eyes, sitting in the passenger seat next to me all weekend, puffing away on a series of B&H 100s (seemed sexy at the time), batting her eyelashes and generally being a very naughty girl. Maybe that experience affected my impression of the Lincoln. Needless to say their eventual marriage didn't last a year, though I had nothing to do with that outcome... :surprise:

kyfdx

I'm sure he knows all the ins and outs.... He has 7 or 8 Vettes, total.. He needed a C2 to round it out...

He is really into Brass Era cars, though... He has more than a few, that are each worth more than my house..

uplanderguy

Not a big fan of the Sting Ray's styling, but I know the engineering is excellent. I love the '62 best of all Corvettes, but I know it still has kingpin suspension--doesn't bother me; I own Studebakers!

imidazol97

Ahhh, my favorite--Route 66 type Vette.

<img src="http://www.hywayrockers.org/Hywayrockers_Web/MemberCar/David_Glenda1962Corvette.jpg" width="630" height="480

hpmctorque

"...and generally being a very naughty girl."

Hmmm, that statement begs for more details, but I think that would be a subject for another forum.

uplanderguy

Beautiful! Although, I'd prefer Honduras Maroon or Fawn Beige!

andre1969

My insurance agent brother got a '79 or '80 New Yorker as a company car back at that time -- dark blue with a silver-gray interior. I remember liking the fallaway dash but being unimpressed with the rattly windows and the general ride and feel of the car. Chrysler walked away from that part of the market when they did away with their big cars in '78.

I think the problem is that the R-body made a better police car than it did luxury car. And that would probably make sense, as it was based on the old '71-78 intermediates, which were some of the best police cars of the era. While you could argue that GM and Ford had to span that same gap, as an Impala police car is essentially the same thing underneath as a DeVille or Fleetwood, GM and Ford at least had the funds to differentiate the cars more.

Mr_Shiftright

I got to appraise a bunch of cars including a not-so-bad Avanti R2. This was a '63 model judging from the serial #. The supercharger was in a box, however.

One misconception some people (even owners!) have about these cars: there is no such thing as an "Avanti engine"--there is no Avanti block, heads, crank, etc., as there is in a Corvette. Studebaker just took ordinary stock passenger car engines off the shelf and added internal parts such as special camshaft, and then played with compression ratios, and took some HD parts like pulleys, etc, off police and taxi vehicles.

This is why the difference in value between an R1 (not SC) and R2 is not so much as one might expect.

The car ran, was about a #3 minus with a so-so repaint, (drips, file marks, overspray) oil leaks, nice interior, unrestored chassis. I placed it at about $13.5K, but I wouldn't pay that for it. With SC attached and sorted, it could go to maybe $16K with a clean up.

lemko

That's a very old picture of my car taken in 1984. It was finished in a stunning dark gray metallic called Charcoal Firemist.

uplanderguy

I wasn't aware that a 283 Corvette or 327 Corvette had different blocks than a 283 or 327 Impala. A base 327 Corvette has 250 hp, same as a 327 Biscayne.

Mr_Shiftright

many corvettes do have different blocks, and if not blocks themselves, different heads, cranks, etc. It's more common than not. This is why "matching #s" is so important when buying an old Vette. Everyone looks for the Corvette, rather than the Chevrolet, part.

omarman

That's a very old picture of my car taken in 1984. It was finished in a stunning dark gray metallic called Charcoal Firemist.

That was going to be my next question as I don't recall seeing a Buick Park Avenue in that color before. Very cool.

ab348

Yes, you're probably right. She made quite an impression on me. Stunningly beautiful and with a very intriguing personality. I still think of her from time to time all these years later.

fintail

Big haul today

Brassy

"Survivor"

"Unique"

The invasion begins

Old timer

Formal

Convertible with wire wheels...oh wait

Parts to be found at any Autozone no doubt

Must be the product of a rare joint venture

I don't know where to send it

Big engine

Slusbox dime

Lots of bids for less than pleasing aesthetics

When trucks weren't all leviathan

Gallic style

How old cars actually looked back in the day

Style when GM had it all

Could be the best one left

Neat wagon from same seller

Big "cat" from same seller

Odd manual

Not for the weak of stomach

Good name, boring body, wrong color

Badge engineering

Those crazy Russians

Interesting seats

Good use of resources

Interesting frankencar

80s and 60s hybrid

ab348

That '62 Starfire is very nice. But I wonder why, if it was a total resto, they didn't refinish the area around the trim tag, why an emblem from a set of '80s sill plates was stuck next to it, and why some of the weatherstrip appears to not have been replaced...

uplanderguy

why an emblem from a set of '80s sill plates was stuck next to it

I wondered that same thing.

Styling is subjective, of course, but I think those Starfires are so gooped-up with trim, in and out, compared to the same year Grand Prix. As they say, sometimes 'less is more'.

hpmctorque

Ah, I always dreamed of owning a GAZ 21! Nothing else compares, and just the car for someone who doesn't want to justify his purchase.

andre1969

Yeah, the Grand Prix is a much more cleanly styled car. That Starfire looks a bit like GM was still partially stuck in the 50's, when one sign of prestige was to have more chrome, bling, and excess on your car.

Still, I find the Starfire to be attractive, in spite of that. I liken it to a good looking woman with too much makeup on.

uplanderguy

I liken it to a good looking woman with too much makeup on.

Good analogy! The basic '62 big Olds styling was handsome I think.

About fifteen years ago, our older neighbor two doors down--a gentle, soft-spoken gent with a loud wife--told me he had a new '62 Starfire hardtop which was the last new car he bought before he got married (which must have been in his 30's) that he fondly remembered. At the time of the story, he had a beautiful, about '90 Delta 88 coupe, maroon with blackwalls and those handsome lacy-looking Olds wheels. He kept it immaculate, as was his small house and yard. His wife died and he ended up marrying a "girl" he knew in high school, and sold the house and moved away.

lemko

OMG! That 1967 Buick Wildcat is drop dead gorgeous and I love that blue!

uplanderguy

I've been admiring that '67 Wildcat too. I much-prefer the fastback styling to the notchback styling of the Electra. I wish that car was a Wildcat Custom though, which would have had either buckets and console or a notchback front seat with fold-down center armrest. Still, it's a stunning car.

Mr_Shiftright

The interior looks bone stock and original but the paint looks way too good for GM to have done it. I wonder if it's been repainted? Maybe totally pro color sanded and buffed?

hpmctorque

I like those FWD Delta 88 coupes, and their Buick counterparts. They're quite rare now, but parts availablity should still be good.

andre1969

I gotta admit, I like those 88 and LeSabre coupes, as well. I think the LeSabre especially looks good in black, and with the styled road wheels of the era. I thought the '86 especially looked good, the one year they used the old fashioned quad headlights, rather than composites. The quads were set in a bit, and gave the car a bit of a tough, aggressive look.

Usually people don't think of LeSabres when they think of a sporty car, but I think those first FWD coupes were probably about as close as it ever came.

My ex-wife's mother had an '87 LeSabre sedan. It was a pretty good car, especially considering she fell on hard times and didn't always take the best of care of it. It was still running the last time I saw her, which was probably around 1999 or so. I forget how many miles it had on it, but I think it made it to at least 130,000 or so.

tjc78

Usually people don't think of LeSabres when they think of a sporty car, but I think those first FWD coupes were probably about as close as it ever came.


There was a "T" type version of those too, right?

andre1969

Yep, now that you mention it, there was a LeSabre T-type. I can't remember if it was just the coupe, or the coupe and the sedan.

There was a lady at work whose husband had an '86 Olds 88 coupe, in black. I only saw it once, at her house, with a flat tire, but I thought it was a sharp looking car. I don't think Olds offered a sporty version of the 88 back then, but this one had some nice looking alloy wheels on it that dressed it up.

Didn't Olds offer a supercharged version of the 88 for a few years in the late 90's?

tjc78

Didn't Olds offer a supercharged version of the 88 for a few years in the late 90's?

Absolutely. I had a 98 Olds 88 LS. There was an LSS version that had the supercharger. I had considered it, but I got a really nice deal on the LS model.

jljac

I hate to disagree with a fellow Studebaker fan, but the 1962 Corvette is my least favorite because it looks like they introduced the rear end of the Sting Ray before they were ready to put the rest of the car into production. The front and rear end have different styling themes. If Studebaker did that, it would be given as a reason why they went out of business: they could not afford a complete model change, so they only went half-way.

In re comments about the Avanti engine: I often use that term because if I say "R-Series engine" then I have to explain what that term means. An Avanti engine uses the same block as other Stude V-8s, but there are enough differences to call it by the Avanti name, such as high compression pistons, better valves, different camshaft, dual point distributor located in a chrome box, nicely chromed valve covers and sometimes a supercharger. Unlike other Stude V-8s they have at least 240 horsepower and run on premium fuel.

By way of example, if someone has a "Boss 302 Mustang V-8" it means something better than a regular Ford V-8. No harm, no foul.

ab348

Those FWD Delta 88 coupes were clean-looking cars although the dash design left something to be desired. But I always look at those as a big part of the reason for GM's and especially Oldsmobile's decline in the late 80s. They replaced the very popular RWD 88s which were superior cars in almost every way. And the automatic transmissions in these were just awful the first few years, failing regularly and really damaging the reputation of those cars. I had a coworker who bought one new and dumped it after a few years because of constant tranny troubles. Later on a different coworker still had one from the late 80s and claimed to never have had tranny problems because he had a trans cooler installed early on.

ab348

The Wildcat is really purty, but it seems to be a bit of a stripper - no A/C, not a whole lot of other options I can see. The interior color seems an odd choice with the paint choice - surprised GM built that. When I got out of college I had a job interview with GM for a job that was described as handling dealer orders and checking for wrong or "not permitted" production choices. The guy used the example of a blue car with a brown interior (or maybe the other way around).

I like the Sportwagon from the same seller even more. It too seems pretty plain-jane, not even a clock. Lots of useful space in one of those, though that one seems too nice to use for its intended purpose now.

kyfdx

My mother and her sister both bought fastback Bonneville coupes in '67.. My aunt's was Navy Blue, and my Mom's was white w/white leather...

I thought they were gorgeous, but you hardly ever see them around, any more...

Mr_Shiftright

What I meant was you can't buy "an Avanti engine" but you can make one up, like Studebaker did. A Corvette engine might have a different crank, reinforced webbing, 4 bolt main bearing caps and high compression heads, etc. , so it's a Corvette engine. Anyone can build an Avanti engine in a weekend.

What I was actually talking about was why the value between an R1 and R2 isn't that much.

wevk

We had a Chrysler 2011 minivan where when inside you couldn't see the exterior and with the tinted windows you couldn't tell the interior color from the outside. That got me to wondering why color combination were limited.

uplanderguy

My mother and her sister both bought fastback Bonneville coupes in '67.. My aunt's was Navy Blue, and my Mom's was white w/white leather...

Truth be told, I like the Bonneville's fastback roof better than the Grand Prix in those '65-68 years. You could get the Bonne with buckets and console, like a Grand Prix, but not many did. You could also get the Brougham in a hardtop coupe, with its luxurious "panty cloth" interior, in '66 and later as well. Personally, I always wanted an Iris Mist '65 Bonneville Sport Coupe with the plum bucket seats and console.

andre1969

Truth be told, I like the Bonneville's fastback roof better than the Grand Prix in those '65-68 years.

I think I do, as well. I think the '65-66 Catalina, Star Chief/Executive, and Bonneville roofline was just about perfect. The Grand Prix is okay, but that formal roof just doesn't seem to flow well with the swoopy body.

I don't like the '67-68 Cat/Exec/Bonnie roofline as much, as it's just TOO extreme for my tastes, but it still works well with the body I think. But again, that Grand Prix roof just didn't work well. I LOVE the grille on the '67 GP though, so I think I'd be willing to live with the roofline. Or, better yet, just get the convertible!

uplanderguy

I think we've discussed this before, but the sheer size of Pontiac's '67 full-size lineup (such as your Catalina convertible) always amazes me...Catalina, Ventura option on Catalina, Executive, 2+2, Bonneville, Bonneville Brougham, Grand Prix.

I don't believe I've ever seen a '67 2+2 in person, but I've seen them on the 'net.

The only difference I have ever seen between Venturas and Executives of the '67-70 era, is the Executive's longer wheelbase. You look in the brochures and the trim books, and the interiors are identical, as is exterior trim level....I mean, identical!

andre1969

I didn't realize that about the Executive and the Ventura. It's been so long since I've seen either in person, that I really can't remember. I do remember a guy at work who used to own a '69 Catalina 4-door with the Ventura package, and its interior was really nice...almost as nice as the '69 Bonneville I once had.

I always thought the Executive was just the bigger Bonneville body with the cheaper Catalina interior, trim, and and the Catalina's 2-bbl engine, versus the Bonneville's 4-bbl. But, I just looked through the '67 brochure at tocmp.com, and that Executive's definitely a step up from my Catalina!

I wonder how many Venturas Pontiac built? According to my old car book, in 1967 Pontiac built about 240,000 Catalinas, but it doesn't break out production for the Ventura trim package, or the 2+2. I'm guessing not a whole lot, considering I hardly ever see them at car shows, online, etc.

bumpy

with a FE3 badge on the trunk lid. Also had the hood ornament replaced with some little chrome lawn jockey leaning into the wind.

fintail

Saw 2 79-83 style Z cars today, both looking the worse for wear

uplanderguy

The Pontiac brochures used to picture the Ventura's vinyl interior, and the Executive page would usually show the cloth-and-vinyl interior--which were two different seat "designs" or patterns. However, if you looked at the huge interior chart on the wall of the Pontiac dealer, or their little interior picture booklet, both of these interiors were offered in Ventura and Executive. Seems like most of both had the deluxe vinyl (Morrokide) interior.

uplanderguy

Here is a '68 Ventura 2-door hardtop:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2975423/1968-pontiac-ventura

Here is a '68 Executive 2-door hardtop:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-PONTIAC-Executive-/310289474925?pt=US_Cars_T- rucks&hash=item483eb1a56d

Zero difference in interior or exterior moldings! Well, for '68 only, the "Executive" nameplate was behind the wheel opening and the "Ventura" nameplate was in front, but that was for '68 only.

Actually, I think the Executive's extra wheelbase length doesn't help the styling.

ab348

The '68 fullsize Pontiac styling really was a miss for GM. After the attractive '67 it seems odd they would go off the rails so far a year later.

I must be strange as my favorite big Pontiac year in that era was the '70, followed closely by the '65.