I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

The '68 fullsize Pontiac styling really was a miss for GM. After the attractive '67 it seems odd they would go off the rails so far a year later.

I think the '68 fullsize is my least favorite 60's Pontiac. And strangely, while it's more closely related to the '67, I think it looks like it has more in common with the '69. I always thought the '67 Pontiac was a hip, swinging, sporty looking car, and even looked a bit futuristic. But almost overnight, it turned into an old man's car.

My issue with that rear-end is the taillights. They're similar to the '67 taillights, but exaggerated to the point they no longer fit properly, and the way they cut down into the bumper is really awkward. I thought they worked them in much better for '69. And up front, I just think it's TOO beaky, and the headlights are too far outboard. Again, for '69, these issues were cleaned up.

I don't think the '70 Pontiac is too bad, although I don't really care for the neoclassic, vertical, too-narrow-for-the-front end grille and the "6 headlight" look. They were probably trying to imitate the style of the '69 Grand Prix. I think the '70 big Pontiacs look gorgeous from the side, and the rear's not bad, either.

hpmctorque

I agree with everything you said about those FWD Olds 88 and Buick LeSabre coupes. In addition to being stylish, modern renditions of American coupes of earlier decades, they were also very practical.

While Olds didn't have a coupe counterpart to the LeSabre T-Type, in terms of model designation, you could option a Delta 88 with the f-41 suspension, leather interior, etc., and essentially have an 88 that was the equivalent to the LeSabre T-Type.

Regarding the supercharger, GM started offering that option on its FWD V6s after those coupes went out of production.

As for the T-Type 4 door, I think that was an Electra for the '85-'91 generation Buick large (H?) bodies. The Electra was on the same platform as the Park Avenue, but a half-step below the PA in terms of luxury.

Buick also offered a Century T-Typethat I liked.

All of these GM cars had their share of reliability issues, so they weren't really great cars, but, then, practically all mass market cars of that period, domestic and import, had points of weakness.

uplanderguy

I like the '67 better than the '68, and the '68 better than the '69. Pontiac always had great instrument panels, but I think the '69 instrument panel looks really cheap in comparison to previous ones. Plus, you could get bucket seats in a '69 full-size Pontiac, but no console! Previous years offered buckets, console and floor shift.

andre1969

Pontiac always had great instrument panels, but I think the '69 instrument panel looks really cheap in comparison to previous ones.

I kinda liked the instrument panel in my '69 Bonneville, but that was the year they went to fully-padded dashboards, rather than metal with just a bit of padding here and there, so that might have made them look cheapened. I remember even the piece of fake woodgrain with the "Bonneville" script was padded!

Was the Ventura package upgraded for '69 I wonder? I remember the one that the guy at work had was really nice inside, with carpeted lower door panels, thicker padded door panels, and even the seats, while still vinyl, seemed a higher quality. It also had full instrumentation, which was probably a stand-alone option, but I thought was really neat, for an era where most cars had a sea of idiot lights.

In contrast, that '68 Ventura, and the Executive, really don't look like much of a step up from the Catalina IMO.

uplanderguy

I always thought that '68 and prior, Catalina seat trim was sort-of Bel Air level, although Pontiac instrument panels usually way-outclassed Chevy panels. The '67 and '68 Ventura vinyl seat trim was thicker-looking IMO, with a bit of a slight 'tuck and roll' about 2/3 up the rear cushion...somewhat Impala-level. In '69, I do think the Ventura and Executive seats had thicker-looking vertical bolsters, and also had a new horizontal vinyl bolster about 2/3 of the way up the rear cushion. I do think the '69 and '70 Ventura vinyl seats looked plusher than the '67 and '68. The '69 and '70 Ventura had woodgrain inserts on the door panels, that I can't recall if the Catalina had.

berri

Personally, I always felt Pontiac went a little too far with the front end of the 67 full sized Pontiac overwhelming the rest of a nice looking car. I thought the big Buick, Olds and Chevy all looked a bit better that year.

jrosasmc

I haven't seen one of these in many years, let alone in great condition with low miles:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-BMW-3-0-S-BAVERIA-AUTOMATIC-SEDAN-NO-RESERVE- -/330522491250?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cf4acf972

If I'm correct, those early BMW M30 straight-sixes were known for cracking/warping cylinder heads due to inadequate cooling systems.

fintail

Wow that is nice, great survivor. I think they have some kind of issue too...there has to be a reason they are significantly less valued that a similar age and market MB W108

texases

I'm surprised it's a 'no reserve' sale...I'll be curious what it sells for. Me, I'd get the later 528i.

Mr_Shiftright

The Bavaria is just a heap o' trouble.

texases

"The Bavaria is just a heap o' trouble."

But what about a "Baveria"? :P

Mr_Shiftright

variant spelling, some pile o' trouble.

stickguy

I love how simple and gadget free that car is. Too bad you can't get something like it now.

texases

Well, there's 'simple', and there's 'good'. Lots of 'simple' cars out there you wouldn't want to own. A base new Honda Accord v6 would run rings around that Bavaria and be much more reliable.

stickguy

I don't mean simple as in a strippo Accent.

I want a serious quality drivers car without tons of gadgets.

IOW, I want BMW to make cars like they did 10 years ago even, when you could get a base model 325 with manual seats, manual climate, etc. and no variable electric feel steering, etc.

a mid-70s Porsche 91 was similar too.

so, give me a modern 3 series wagon RWD with just the basics please.

texases

Well, you can get (I imagine special order, they'd never stock one) a 328i wagon with a stick and no options, would eliminate many of the things you want to avoid, such as iDrive. Still has to come with a power sunroof, but I couldn't find a 318i without one back in '83...

stickguy

I actually do want a moonroof. that wasn't a frivolous option, it was a neccessity! That Bavaria likely had one anyway.

I thought the newer model BMWs were getting more of that stuff standard. Guess not. as long as it has traditional steering (no variable electiric crap), normal suspension, no idrive, manual CC, that should probably do it.

texases

It does have automatic cc, but not the other stuff, I think. But like I said, you'd have to special order it with a binding contract, the dealer won't want to get stuck with it if you were to back out.

andys120

I doubt you can get a 328iT with a manual anymore, the A/T shows on BMW's website as Standard Equipment.

I guess "standard transmission" doesn't mean what it used to. :sick:

stickguy

for a while, I don't think you could get RWD either.

I am waiting to see what the X1 looks like. that has promise.

andys120

I am waiting to see what the X1 looks like. that has promise.

That's even less likely to come w a manual IMO.

texases

Confusing - local dealer lists a 2011 328iT with a manual in inventory...

stickguy

they switched back. I think the early years of the current version were AT and AWD only. at some point though they seem to have decided to offer it the other way too.

hpmctorque

I had to look twice as I approached it and passed a Volt, cruising at ~50 mph on I-270, heading south towards DC. Naw, it won't be a classic in 2036, since parts will be unobtainable, but it's likely that one example, somewhere, will be a museum item.

Too bad GM crushed all those EV1s.

fintail

I think a handful of EV1s (masterfully parodied in The Simpsons as the "Elec-Taurus") are still held by schools and/or research facilities. The school I attended has one - GM once tried to get it back but I think relented.

jrosasmc

Found this rare gem on Bring A Trailer:

http://bringatrailer.com/2011/01/24/1980-saab-99-gl/

1980 was the last year for the 99 series in the U.S. A friend of mine had this exact model when I was in my early teens (c. 1995) and I remember it as a troublesome car. I haven't seen any 99, let alone an excellent example such as this one, in quite some time.

explorerx4

Saabnet.com. Brings back memories of looking at a lot content there.

Mr_Shiftright

If you buy a 99, you will become intimate with Saabnet. I lived there for a while myself.

fintail

Seems kind of expensive, to be nice.

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't touch a Saab 99 with a 20 foot pole myself.

hpmctorque

I once owned a Saab 99 for 48 hours. Didn't buy it with the intention of flipping it. Was sober when I bought it, but became more sober within a couple hours of the purchase.

lemmer

Is this because you've already owned one in the past?

Mr_Shiftright

It enjoys a rather notorious reputation.

jljac

Too bad GM crushed all those EV1s.

The Petersen Auto museum in Los Angeles has a disabled EV 1 so that it can never be driven again.

I believe that the Chevy Volt will be a hot selling car for the next few years, but I have to wonder how popular it will be when the $9,000 tax credit for buying one expires. By the time you drive one long enough to recover the cost in fuel savings, it will be time to replace the batteries.

Hybrid and electric vehicles now have about 4% of the market. . .about the same market share as Studebaker had in the 1950s. Too bad the government was not giving tax credits to buy fuel-efficient Studebakers or they might still be in business.

Mr_Shiftright

People in the media tend to ignore that you still have to spend the entire $40K + to get a Volt---the tax credit comes later. Some media folks talk about it like the dealer deducts it off MSRP or something--LOL!

The EV-1 failed because it wasn't good enough. You think GM ever walked away from an easy buck? Besides I would have destroyed them, too, given how easily Americans can be about suing everybody.

derrado1

Haven't been on here in a while but I've seen a lot of interesting cars lately.

There's a 1948 Chevrolet Fleetmaster in not exactly Concours condition that I always see around my neighbourhood now.

The other day I saw a Subaru XT that looked like it was riding way too high, like some wedge on stilts.

From the "I'm surprised they haven't rusted yet" files, I've seen lately a Fiat 131 SuperBrava, a Fiat Croma (probably one of the two that people actually bought here), an Alfasud which I'm truly surprised hadn't oxidised, multiple Fiat X1/9s, a Lancia Beta and an 80s Giulietta.

There's a business nearby that uses exclusively a fleet of 1980s RWD Mazda 323 wagons. Where does it even find them?

Other oddities I've seen around Brisbane in the past few months include a Citroen BX Break, a Citroen GS, the last generation of Chrysler Valiant Charger with the quad-headlight set-up, a 1960s Ford Zodiac, an MGB GT, Rover SD1, a Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawk AND a Lark wagon.

I also saw a Ford Landau, the first and only one I've ever seen. It was an Australian exclusive and a pretty awesome one at that. But then 70s Aussie Fords were all pretty awesome.

fintail

The land where muscle cars never died. I like browsing through Aussie ebay now and then just to check out the odd and sometimes cool vehicles. Weird Asian stuff, lots of European stuff, cool pseudo-American domestic stuff, and many actual American cars...maybe the most diverse market out there.

jrosasmc

What do you make of this car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170595603499&viewi- tem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

I've only seen two 2.3-16's over the last few years or so, and both of them were in rather shabby condition. I heard that those 16-valve motors require constant maintenance and upkeep.

Mr_Shiftright

Kind of a fun car and looks like a good price for it, too. It would be a great "beater"/second car. I don't think I would restore it however.

texases

Odd coincidence: someone just asked on "Edmunds Answers" about what new car would provide a similar driving experience as a 2.3 16v, but for not too much $$. I suggested a 2011 Mustang V6 or a 128i. Other ideas?

Mr_Shiftright

Alfa 164 comes to mind. The Mustang seems to be a bit cheesy in the build department to qualify, if they are looking for that sort of "rock solid" road feel that a Benz has. But yeah, a compact BMW sedan might work, and BMW engines do like to rev. But 128i is only a coupe I believe, so not quite what he/she is looking for.

Maybe a Saab Turbo 4D, if you can marry a Swedish mechanic.

texases

He did say 'new' and 'budget', so that really limited things...a few year old 328i sedan would also work, if he'd go with used...

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, new----well then, he wants a 4D, stickshift, high-revving 4 cylinder with sport suspension and "german car feel"? Hmmm...need to think about that.....

fintail

Not a viable restoration project...if you want a mint one, just find one, making a worn one mint will cost a fotrtune - but to drive it for the price, why not, maybe some fun for not a lot of money. It will require maintenance, it's a relatively high strung German car.

stickguy

not actually german, but sounds like a mazda speed3 to me.

kyfdx

I think you just described an E30 M3..

That Mercedes is starting to look cheap...

Oops.... not a sedan..

Mr_Shiftright

An old M3 would be just as much trouble if not more....engines were not long-lived on those puppies.

garv214

not actually german, but sounds like a mazda speed3 to me.

I was thinking of that exact same car. Just bought one to replace my 2002 Protege5.

jrosasmc

I spotted this one not long ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Volvo-144S-58k-Miles-One-Owner-Showroom-Cond- ition-/380309415905?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item588c3527e1

I see a few examples of these Volvos from time to time but only at car shows. If I had the money now I'd buy that 144 in a heartbeat.

lemmer

I saw a early 90s Mercury Capri convertible this morning. How could Ford be so clueless to think that car was some kind of answer to the Miata?