Mazda3 Hatchback

mdaffron · May 2005

Garth --

Sorry to hear you'll be moving to the Bluegrass State. Not that there's anything wrong with that I guess, but oh well, I don't get out that way very often (i.e. never).

Nope, no side air bags or curtains in my car. I opted to stay $800 richer and live life dangerously. :shades:

Besides, I haven't needed them in 40 years ... we'll see what I die of first. (Er, "first"? :P ) I'll bet it won't be being T-boned by an SUV at an intersection. Cigars and bourbon are FAR more likely.

Meade

kyfdx · May 2005

If you got to KY more often, you'd know that bourbon is a net positive to your health...

A much bigger chance you'll get T-boned than die from bourbon.. :surprise:

regards,
kyfdx

fowler3 · May 2005

If you get the moonroof you HAVE TO take the 6 CD changer.

I've heard the rear visibilty is bad on the htach, mdaffron can tell you better about that. One thing, you can remove the rear headrests and carry them in the back until you need them. The sedan is probably better since the rear window is closer to the driver and larger.

fowler3

If you hear tires on gravel -- steer left; if you hear horns honking -- steer right.

blueguydotcom · May 2005

Rear visibility on the Mazda3 hatch is better than the A3 and better than BMW's 3 series sedans. just my opinion from driving all of them (the Mazda3 and 3 series often).

mdaffron · May 2005

And the headrests are far enough apart to not really impede on rearward visibility through the mirror.

I back into an underground parking space in a deck every day and I don't have any complaints about being able to see behind me. Maybe it's because I just came from a Protege sedan with the trunk-mounted spoiler that really DID get in the way. The glass in the hatch is only maybe about a foot farther back than the rear window would be in the sedan, so the difference is minimal. Plus I found the funky light patterns that the brakes and back-up lights send out are very helpful with avoiding that concrete-and-block wall!

I've had loaner cars that included the PT Cruiser -- I had the PT only about three months ago, and lemme tell ya -- THAT one is a hard car to see out the back of.

Meade

blueguydotcom · May 2005

I've noticed when driving my friends Mazda3 hatch that backing up, like in an SUV, is even easier than it is in sedans because the hatch window pretty much tells you within 6 inches how far away everything behind you is.

autonomous · May 2005

...noticed when driving my friends Mazda3 hatch that backing up, like in an SUV, is even easier than it is in sedans because the hatch window pretty much tells you within 6 inches how far away everything behind you is.

I agree completely. My Protege5 is much easier to park than my previous sedan. The rear window could be larger, but with the hatchback configuration I have a better sense of the car's boundaries; the P5 has converted me for this and other reasons into a die-hard hatchback fan as a result.

mdaffron · May 2005

... how the rear bumper on the 3 hatch comes to a "point". I'm VERY careful backing up to that wall in my parking deck, because I know that even the slightest touch will ruin that point!

Meade

backy · May 2005

Makes you wish more cars had the black rubber or plastic trim strips on bumpers (and doors) that used to be so common, doens't it? This idea of 100% painted bumpers must have originated with the auto body repair industry, I think. :mad:

mdaffron · May 2005

(Nice to see you lurking in here this morning, btw!)

I say a lot of negative things about my 1980 Saab, but one positive thing I can say is that its bumpers were made out of some kind of plasticky rubber material that was honeycombed inside, and they were designed to ... and could (I proved it once with a parking lot bollard) ... withstand a 5-mph collision with no damage, springing right back to shape again. And they did NOT contain lights, license plate holders and everything else the manufacturers mount on bumpers these days.

In short, they were there to do what bumpers are supposed to do!!!

That said, let me say this ... a snot-nosed kid who was too busy looking at the girl in his passenger seat rear-ended me in my Protege one rainy morning about two years ago, right in front of his high school. He was in a mid-90s Accord, btw. He slid into me going about 20, and my bumper absorbed the hit. The cover got a few marks and a gouge from his license plate bolts, but I touched up the damage myself and pocketed his insurance company's check

. So while I haven't tested (and hope I never do) the 3's bumpers, I know they've got a good lineage.

Meade

blueguydotcom · May 2005

A soccer mom did that to my about 1.5 years ago. Red light means stop, lady!

Also had a grass catcher from a lawn mower come hurtling out of a beater pickup while on the freeway. At 80+ on a crowded freeway their are not many places to go. Just got the hood fixed and that was a nice $500 smack.

fowler3 · May 2005

Painted bumper facias or caps (the real bumper is a steel bar behind the facia) started with Porsche on the 386 Roadster and later models, only the Porsche had real painted steel bumpers with rubber bumper guards mounted on them. Like BMWs.

Frankly, it should be easier to back up a hatchback or MZ3 sedan because they have much larger outside mirrors than the prior models. Always hated outside mirrors clipped off for styling purposes like those on the current Altimas. Hey, Nissan, they ain't ornaments.

fowler3

mdaffron · May 2005

Coming from a 2000 Protege and with a 2002 Protege5 still in the driveway, I can say with certainty that the Mazda3's outside mirrors are quite a bit larger and very nice for what they need to be used for -- seeing behind you! It's kind of weird, though -- they don't LOOK any bigger when you're standing outside the car. I think it's because they're proportionally bigger -- i.e. taller and wider -- and the A-pillar's a little wider too. So they fit the proportions of the car which got bigger as well.

I'm a big fan of those mirrors.

Meade

bunk1968 · May 2005

Can anyone tell me where I could see Exactly what the S-plan price should be for a Mazda 3 hatchback??
I live in MI and I am getting quotes all over the board.
I can I really know what the S-plan price is exactly for the hatchback????
** What is the Gerber rebate and how long are they giving $500 off???
Please help?!

mdaffron · May 2005

http://www.mazda.com/product/mazda3/4a/2w/story1_1.html

Meade

imontoya · May 2005

~Seattle Meet~

Date: 6/4/05
Time: 3pm
Location: AG ~ Associated Grocers (Large Grocery Warehouse)
3301 S Norfolk St Seattle, WA 98118

I-5 Northbound/Southbound
Take Exit #158 Boeing Field/Boeing Access Rd/E Marginal Way
Head West when you exit off I-5
Take first immediate right toward Airport Way
Follow Airport Way to S Norfolk
Take Left on S Norfolk
Look for an open gated entrance to the large parking lot on your left

We will head out from that location for a cruise csweeney around 3:30-3:45 to the city of Snoqualmie/Snoqualmie Falls.

Remember you make the meet happen! Hope to see you there!!

coop75 · June 2005

Steven - or anyone else - has there been any reports of stolen Mazda 3 headlights? I just ordered a M3 S, Xenons were an option that I did not pick because they are a huge theft issue all over Boston and I got rid of my Audi because the lights were stolen. I am nervous the car could still be a target just because it's an option? I have read a lot about the Lexus RX SUV models getting their lights stolen, but the sedans as far as I know are not an issue. My neighbor has one and he said that a thief would have to remove his bumper before getting the lights out....maybe Mazda was smart with the design and did something similar?

mazda6s · June 2005

So if the bumper has to be removed to change a headlight, how much does this cost at a dealer?

blueguydotcom · June 2005

you don't change xenon lamps nearly as often. they last far longer than halogens; I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-4 times longer.

npaladin2000 · June 2005

Theft is mostly a problem for cars that have Xenons standard, because they're guaranteed to score on them. On the Mazda3, they're optional, and you can't tell just by looking that there are Xenons on the car. What thief is going to bother busting in only to find halogens X number of times?

mazda6s · June 2005

So, it's going to cost like $500 every 3 or 4 years to change a headlight? Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

backy · June 2005

Are you saying the halogen bulbs in the Mazda3 last only about a year? That seems really short to me. The bulbs in my cars typically have lasted 4-5 years, but I did have one burn out in a Celica after just a few months.

blueguydotcom · June 2005

So, it's going to cost like $500 every 3 or 4 years to change a headlight? Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

You change headlights once a year?! I've been a licensed driver for 15 years and driving for 21 and I've changed one headlight in 1991 on my 83 Ford. My 91 Stanza that I owned for 7 years = no changes. Ditto my Jetta, Bimmer and Protege.

z71bill · June 2005

cover the xenon bulb if the car was under warranty?

I have had a few bulbs (turn signal - brake light) burn out over the years - but I always just replaced them on my own - even though the vehicle was under warranty - not worth a trip to the dealer - spend an hour or 2 or 3 waiting just to get a bulb replaced that cost $1.00 - plus I don't like driving around with a light out - so I want it fixed ASAP. But if the bulb is $500 that would be a different story.

kyfdx · June 2005

Isn't Mazda's warranty pretty much bumper-to-bumper? I know it used to be...

I doubt you'd have to replace a Xenon light on your own dime, while under warranty.

I haven't had to replace a headlight since my '82 Accord, which I sold in '94..

z71bill · June 2005

I have completely lost confidence in Mazda warranty - bumper to bumper - give me a break - Mazda just says _______ (fill in what ever problem you want) is within spec. Since they set the spec they can claim whatever they want to be normal.

Although even Mazda would have to admit a burned out light bulb was a problem

mdaffron · June 2005

Please. OK? Thanks.

Meade

mdaffron · June 2005

I posted the following text over on the Accessories & Modifications discussion about two months ago, using it as a good reason for having NOT gone with the Xenon/TPMS package. Reprinted here for your financial consideration ...

I just went to advanceautoparts.com and priced ONE Sylvania D2S xenon bulb -- that's what came up for the Mazda3 ... and it was ... you ready?

$136.99.

In contrast, a top-of-the-line Sylvania Silverstar Halogen low-beam bulb was $19.98.

Also, the owner's manual of my new 3 recommends replacement of xenon bulbs by the dealer only. No such warning with the regular headlamps.

So, you have to decide if it's worth $700 initially, and then at least $140 -- if/when one goes out -- and more like $180 including a half-hour's labor at the dealer if you're too sheepish to risk damaging an expensive bulb trying to replace it yourself.

Learning all that, opting out of that little money trap was easy!

My car is Xe-NON!!!

BTW, the 2000 Protege ES I traded for the 2005 Mazda3 two months ago yesterday was almost exactly five years old and had 91,100 miles on it. In all that time, I never replaced even one bulb in the car -- not a headlight, or even the dome light. My wife's 2002 Protege5, which is 2-1/2 years old and just rolled over 50K, also has had no burned-out bulbs. But still, that xenon cost is way too exhorbitant to be worth it to me.

One other thing ... I believe the comment about having to dismount the bumper to get at the headlamps was in reference to someone trying to remove them from the car (i.e., a thief) when they don't have access to the car's interior to pop the hood.

Meade

blueguydotcom · June 2005

Learning all that, opting out of that little money trap was easy!

Sigh...if my headlight is gonna last 10 years, I'm not gonna worry about what the second or third owner has to pay to replace it. NMP.

I was worried about auto trannies too - they tend to need rebuilding at 100k or so and usually at a cost of 3-5k. But the more i look at it, the more I realize I won't have the car that long. I just don't like paying extra for a tranny that's boring.

mdaffron · June 2005

Sigh...if my headlight is gonna last 10 years, I'm not gonna worry about what the second or third owner has to pay to replace it. NMP.

Well, just remember it'll be you who pays the $700 up front for the xenons, no matter how long they last.

And with their high voltage and unproven technology (relative to halogens), I wouldn't bank on them lasting that long. From what I've read on the xenon discussion, it looks like a year or two is the best anyone's getting. And with the leveling motors, you're talking about much more gizmotrology in an area of a car that's constantly being battered by water, ice, sand, wind, etc.

My dealer let me "borrow" a loaded 3 wagon for a weekend way back in December 2003. It had the xenons, TPMS, nav system, you name it. I found the xenons bright, but not that much brighter than the low beams in a non-xenon-equipped 3. To each his (or her) own, but I just don't see the $700 difference. And btw, has anyone (I hope not just me) read their manual in detail, and read about how careful you (or somebody else) has to be when changing tires or wheels, if you have TPMS? Geesh, what a hassle. Again, no thanks. I have a very nice $20 tire gauge and a pair of eyes that work pretty well.

Meade

shaggnasty1 · June 2005

xenon were included as part of the security package on the SP23 I just bought and I love them. There is a little knob you can use to adjust the level that is cool, too.

I'll take my chances. They are without question the best headlights I've ever had (and I've put Silverstars in every one of my previous cars/trucks...NO comparison).

mdaffron · June 2005

To each his own!

Meade

kyfdx · June 2005

They have been putting Xenons in European models for at least five years.. My car is over two years old, and not one problem... Not exactly "unproven" technology...

Good xenons (and I can't speak for the Mazda 3) are like the difference between night and day..

If you don't want to pay for them, I understand, but it really is no more complicated than power locks or windows..

And the TPMS? Get used to it.. soon all cars will be required to have them..

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom · June 2005

And with their high voltage and unproven technology (relative to halogens), I wouldn't bank on them lasting that long. From what I've read on the xenon discussion, it looks like a year or two is the best anyone's getting.

What? Honestly, that's crazy. Most of the people I know with luxury cars have xenon and have not had to replace them. Furthermore, the technology is not new or unproven. You make it sound like BMW's active steering. Xenon lights are pretty standard fair now and are quite proven. The amount of paranoia related to something as innocuous as lights is staggering.

I found the xenons bright, but not that much brighter than the low beams in a non-xenon-equipped 3. To each his (or her) own, but I just don't see the $700 difference.

Honestly, don't know...are 3's coming with bi-xenons? Gotta say out in the boonies (near my parents' place in no cal) I fell in love with my bi-xenons on my current car all over again. Flip of a switch and those crazy, tree-lined, twisty fun roads became bright as day. At twice the legal limit...ya kinda need to see what's ahead.

And btw, has anyone (I hope not just me) read their manual in detail, and read about how careful you (or somebody else) has to be when changing tires or wheels, if you have TPMS? Geesh, what a hassle. Again, no thanks. I have a very nice $20 tire gauge and a pair of eyes that work pretty well.

Yeah on my last set of tires the mechanic was petrified that I had TPMS. I kept telling him no but he wasn't trusting me.

gee35coupe · June 2005

http://members.misty.com/don/d2.html

Doesn't seem worth the trouble for such little gain.

blueguydotcom · June 2005

What does tha site have to do with anything?

npaladin2000 · June 2005

"Yeah on my last set of tires the mechanic was petrified that I had TPMS. I kept telling him no but he wasn't trusting me."

Yeah, I'm glad I opted out of that too. Unfortunately, opting out of those meant I had to opt out of the xenons too. I work overnights and do over 60% of my driving at night, so I would have REALLY appreciated Xenon headlights.

They should re-think some of these TPMS systems a bit.

fowler3 · June 2005

From what I read some time ago HID Xenon headlights are more than just a different lamp bulb. Thieves don't realize there is a transformer or converter for each headlight. They won't work without it. Xenons are bright white light but they cut off sharply at a short distance. The xenon lamps on the Mazda, if you look closely, are cut off at the top and bottom to project a flat beam. The lamp itself looks dark gray compared to the halogen lamp. Thieves don't take time to check which is which, especially at 3 in the morning, and do a lot of damage.

The reason Mazda insists dealers make the repair is because it may not be the lamp, it may be a burntout transformer. I don't know the correct name for it -- just think of it as a power supply that generates the white light.

BMW and MB have been using xenon lamps for a decade on their European models as well as other EU manufacturers. Because it is new here doesn't mean it is not proven elsewhere.

fowler3

mdaffron · June 2005

What does tha site have to do with anything?

Quite a bit, if you'll bother to read the whole thing.

(The part about ballasts, temperatures, reliability, the fact that they don't like to be cycled on and off, etc. In other words, everything we've been talking about.)

Meade

mdaffron · June 2005

BMW and MB have been using xenon lamps for a decade on their European models as well as other EU manufacturers. Because it is new here doesn't mean it is not proven elsewhere.

Jim, sure, I'm not stupid. BMW introduced the first-ever production xenons on its 7-series in 1991. For the record, that's 14 years of xenons. (By comparison, halogen lights first appeared on cars in the mid-1960s, so they do have an almost 30-year head start.)

What I'm saying has more to do with complicatedness than technology. Halogen bulbs can be installed in any car; xenons cannot. Halogen bulbs require NO additional stuff to make them work, and are interchangeable with non-halogen headlamps.

In contrast, xenon bulbs run much hotter and require higher voltage, and require different wiring and an expensive ballast to make them work. Plus, since they are so much brighter than standard bulbs, many auto manufacturers install self-leveling systems with motors and sensors to automatically adjust these lights to the proper height on the ground. (Self-leveling systems are required in Europe.) Even though the xenon-equipped Mazda3 does not have a self-leveling system, it does have a manual leveling system -- so add a couple of motors, wiring and linkage to the already complex system of ballasts and wiring.

I don't care what kind of excuses anyone makes; a normal headlight system consists of bulbs and wiring. A xenon system is much more complex; more like a flourescent light in an office building. A ballast can fail and cause the light to go out, and still set you back a couple of hundred bucks even though the bulb is fine. No such problem with a halogen headlight. Add in a couple of motors and you've got added potential for problems.

Those of us who like to "keep it simple" don't see the need to spend $700 for what could be additional, extra-cost maintenance in the future.

And BTW Jim, there is a difference between "proven" and "reliable." My brother, who lives near DC and is considerably more well-off than I am, recently traded his BMW 5-series for a Honda Accord because he was so sick and tired of the exorbitant maintenance costs on the BMW. (It's not that he couldn't afford it; he's also got a Lexus sitting in the garage of his $640,000 home -- no, I'm not jealous.

) I had a Saab back in the '80s that was chock full of "proven" innovations. But that didn't stop me from having lots of problems with its "proven" Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection system, its "proven" diagonally opposed braking system, and its "proven" innovative crash-collapsible steering column. Oh -- and by the way, the Saab's 100-watt "super" halogen headlights (which actually were illegal in my state, but they were designed by Saab for my 900 GLi, and my Saab dealer ordered and installed them for me) burned up my Saab's headlight wiring harness.

"Proven"? I'm not sure what that means, especially in the automotive world. I thought power windows were a "proven" technology, but go over to the VW discussions and try and figure out why VW can't make a window that doesn't crash down into the door on an alarmingly regular basis. How long have power windows been a "proven" technology? Fifty? Sixty years maybe?

Meade

gee35coupe · June 2005

Geez.... That was a very detailed website that dealt exactly with what was being discussed. Some people.....

kyfdx · June 2005

If xenons are a problem.. wouldn't there be a discussion board here on Edmunds about it?

Pick any board that you are familiar with... Even better if it is BMW or Mercedes, as a lot of their cars have HIDs.... Or even the Mazda 3 problems board.. Check it out, and report back with all the xenon problems that you find..

Like the rest of you, I spend way too much time here in Town Hall... and the only complaints I hear of xenons, is from people that don't have them, who don't like looking at them... I never hear of repair/replacement complaints..

I think you are assuming a problem that doesn't exist..

regards,
kyfdx

Sylvia · June 2005

We do have a discussion Headlights & Bulbs (halogen, xenon, etc.) and they do discuss repair/replacement issues so probably a good place to further this discussion?

If not, we should (and can) have a Xenon: Repair, Replacement Issues discussion.

Yes? No?

kyfdx · June 2005

Not on my account, please....

gee35coupe · June 2005

I just don't think there is THAT much of a difference to justify the expense. I've driven a couple of loaner Lexi with autoleveling HID's. They were VERY cool when they leveled off to compensate for different attitudes of the car. But how much would that system cost to repair? I know Lexus wanted $1800 to repair my steering wheel in my GS when it stopped tilting.

kyfdx · June 2005

I agree.. for some people, the price of the option is not worth it to them.. No argument there...

There are a ton of things in my car that I wouldn't order, if I really thought that I would get a $500+ repair bill on later... power locks, power windows, sunroof, etc.. But, any of those could happen.. Just not likely, or not any more likely than HID replacement..

How much difference depends on the make... Acura xenons are very average in my opinion.. BMW turn nighttime into daylight... A few years ago, standard halogen headlights in Audis were pitiful... I would pay for HIDs just to get any improvement..

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom · June 2005

Sorry, been to that site before and nothing about it strikes me as professional or trustworthy.

blueguydotcom · June 2005

If xenons are a problem.. wouldn't there be a discussion board here on Edmunds about it?

Pick any board that you are familiar with... Even better if it is BMW or Mercedes, as a lot of their cars have HIDs.... Or even the Mazda 3 problems board.. Check it out, and report back with all the xenon problems that you find..

Like the rest of you, I spend way too much time here in Town Hall... and the only complaints I hear of xenons, is from people that don't have them, who don't like looking at them... I never hear of repair/replacement complaints..

I think you are assuming a problem that doesn't exist..

Amen. I'm not gonna pause if I get a Mz3...xenons or no car for me,

gee35coupe · June 2005

The same could be said for most of us on Edmunds...Why even bother posting?

mdaffron · June 2005

... just put the Mazda3s 5-door up against the Scion TC, the Mini Cooper, the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart and the Ford Focus ZX4 ST. Here's the results!

First place: Mini Cooper (well, there's no accounting for taste)
Second: Mazda3s 5-door
Third: Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart
Fourth: Scion TC
Fifth: Ford Focus ZX4 ST

Zoom Zoom!

Meade

Mazda3 Hatchback

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