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It's intake manifold and EGR / intercooler fouling and it's a common problem on diesels with closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) that employs sucking the crankcase vapors out of the valve cover into the turbo and through the intercooler and the EGR valve into the intake manifold. The design is intended to burn those crankcase vapors and thus significantly hold down emissions. Bad thing is you will eventually get oil vapor buildup in your intercooler. What really gets bad is when the oily crankcase vapors make contact with the recirculating exhaust gases in the EGR valve and then a buildup of oily soot begins in the EGR valve and on into the intake manifold. Diesels' dirty little secret.
One solution is to dismantle your intake/intercooler/EGR/intake manifold and clean this oily mess out about every 60,000 miles. I'm doing that right now with a VW TDI that had the EGR and intake manifold partially obstructed to the point it was affecting performance.
Another solution is to install a CCV filter or trap between the discharge from the crankcase and the inlet to the suction side of the turbo. That way you can trap the oil from getting into your intake but still burn those crankcase vapors. There is some cheap home garage designs out there and a few commercial engineered ones. I'm looking to get a ProVent or Racor on my Libby as soon as I can. Do an internet search on CCV filters or pcv catchcans and see what I mean.
You guys this isn't a joke. Here is a link to go see the picture. Please go and see!! Thanks!
BIGPAPA">
http://thom.smugmug.com/photos/28792694-M.jpg
http://www.mann-hummel.com/mhuk/upload/doc/HBGDHjDBaVQ.pdf
Unfortunately, it’s 70 degrees here today so the dealer may not be able to replicate the problem unless they tested it yesterday when the temperature was over 100 degrees. We are waiting for the dreaded we can’t get it to do it phone call.
I agree that the vacuum booster is to assist in the mechanical operation of the foot pedal. I believe a spring is what returns the foot pedal to the uppermost range of travel. The brake booster holds around enough vacuum for 4-5 pumps of the foot pedal after shut down, just like a gasser using manifold vacuum. The only difference is the source of the vacuum. It looks like vacuum comes from the pump, goes to the check valve on the booster which has a second line out with a hose, with a check valve in it, to the VGT vacuum reservoir.
If the abs? line is not pinched in the spring causing something, I can only think of three other things to help spete.
If the front end vibrates at speed, could out of round rotors be heating up the fluid? On my previa the bad hoses and action on the rotors actually melted the pads and produced a ridge on the edge of the pad surface.
You used the word servo. Another thing I can think of is an abs issue that is not posting an error code. Is hot fluid the cause of locking brakes or a result of hanging pads? Disconnect the abs and drive around?
Is the master cylinder at fault? (bad caliper/pistons in both fronts would seem odd)
Check it and flush all the old fluid from the system. Our '92 previa was one of those that got contaminated freon. Toyota solution-a can of neutralizing oil. And years later the system sprung holes everywhere. Last toyota.
If turning the ignition off and on frees the brakes, then it seems it is an electrical issue. The only electrical parts to my knowledge in a brake system, other than the mechanical brake light switch on the pedal, and a low brake fluid level sensor, are solenoids in the abs system.
I don't think the mechanical vacuum booster can be the problem. But spete didn't expound on the"pedal had no play" fully extended? engaged at somepoint towards the floor? Up and held up by not only the spring but also by vacuum/hydraulics?
Another issue, why didn't the brakes exhibit this problem from the start?
I hate to keep using my old problems as the source of my posts, but.
Our '96 ford e-150 conversion van had 4 wheel abs which was a surprise to some ford "mechanics" (this is another 6 dealers, one replacing calipers another screwed up etc but we found our own answer to the problem story)
Some time after owning it, on startup up we would hear a "weeeeee". My wife and I, after dealers go duh, found the problem. With engine cover removed, we pinpointed the problem noise as coming from the abs unit. I went to as yet again another dealer and asked to be written up and pay for, warranty is no good if they are idiots, a complete brake flush/bleed. You could not bleed the abs unit without a tool that does the abs electronically through the obd connector. (The manual bleeding only works at the wheels and master cylinder.) The tool opens and closes the solenoids. I found the tool's manufacturer and got a k's of dollars quote.
Weeeee now gone. I'm assuming that sometime after we bought the van the abs was activated-goodyear wranglers, couldn't go or stop in the rain. This alllowed air trapped somewhere to move into an abs position to make the noise, Stopping issue-who knows couldn't get wet traction with the wranglers anyway.
I got my car back home and tested it above a climb...and surprise! no overheating!!!
He told me they have changed the fan clutch. I was happy until I opened the cowling and........THEY HAVE REMOVED THE ENGINE PLASTIC COVER. I fear that doing so they have only eluded the problem, it seem to me that this trick has only improved a little the heat dissipation.
Will they remove my wheels if I'll ever have a problem with them?
I believe anomious told us the VGT parts are inside the exhaust flow and wondered how they were lubricated(thin oil and additives?).
The talk here about HD 5w40 oil, the only difference I believe is the base thinness. There are molecules that respond to heat and produce an oil with properties of 40w. Does Jeep use 0w40 Mobil1 for it's thinness and possibly less deposits in the "...egr and other exhaust issues"?
Does the electric egr work better than VW? Is the CCV necessary (does this filter reduce oil vapors to the VGT?)or should we be like be like TDI's, join clubs and share laptops?
If they took it off on purpose tell them you want it back for use in the winter time when it's hard to warm up a diesel.
The normal airflow under a hood is back and downward - you would have to remove the entire hood to make much difference.
P.S. Make sure all of the rubber parts are there. The little knobs that the cover sits on can hang on to the rubber parts pretty good. A little grease or vaseline on the knobs helps a lot for future removal.
This sounds reasonable. Hot days, around town with a/c on, pulling into the garage for the turbo cool down, the high speed would kick in before the guage moved. then would fall to slow speed, then the electric fan would stop.
There seems to have been a smoke test done showing better air flow with the cover on. You might want to retrieve your engine cover. It could have been a careless mistake or a desire for a great office decoration.
When the ABS comes into action, you hear it and it should display a warning light on the console. It also changes the stiffness of the brake pedal by pulsing it. Those who had locked brakes would have noticed this.
As of the mechanical fan clutch, I had mine replaced because of excessive play on the propeller shaft bearing. It would really be a nightmare if trucks had both problems at the same time, ie brakes and fan clutch.
The plastic cover is only an accoustical device that does not restric airflow since it stands in the middle of a 'dead' zone when the hood is closed and it has clearance above the engine and under the hood.
When the diesel Liberty was introduced in Europe, the quality assurance argument was put forward to emphasize DC's will to succeed. I hope they havent forgotten the newer version that was said to have more 'this and that'!
1) If all 4 brakes are dragging (and they were) you can rule out calipers, pads, shoes, etc...
2) Defective compensator valve in the master cylinder.
3) Defective power booster (a defective valve controlling vacuum).
4) Misplaced brake light switch preventing the brake pedal from fully returning.
This is all pretty basic stuff for a mechanic to check out. A misplaced brake light switch is something almost anyone can check.
I would have included misadjusted push rods on the list but maybe these are not adjustable.
I
What did the dealership do to correct the overheating
It's still sitting at the dealership. Coming up on 7 days and counting. Thanks for asking.
Yup, it appears to be the same problem. I heard from the dealer late yesterday. I’m getting the same nonsense - “Your must understand that we can’t make it happen so we cannot work on a problem that doesn’t exist.”
I’m going to pick it up this afternoon. Unfortunately I’m leaving on vacation for a week so I won’t be able to get back to the problem or respond to posts until week after next. Good luck.
1- I wrote to VM motori, not to Chrysler.
2- VM relayed me first to the swiss national "Technical Inspector" by mistake who contacted the french one immediately. He was never very 'willing', but told my local rep I had a problem.
3- My local rep just gave a 5 minutes look.
He was wearing very nice clothes and everyone could understand he would not get dirty, his mission was to sell the Grand Cherokee or the new 300. Primitively spirited customers would like to look as good as this man assosciated to the wealth mirrored by the fancy car. To any engineering question he answered by waving his hand. Useless...
I decided to let it get worse to the point of leaving the truck along the road if necessary. (sell it to the insurance)
After one year I went 30 miles from home to another dealer, in fact where I bought it, and there stood a real chief mechanics. We test drove the truck 45 minutes together and finally eliminated all possible issues.
I've been here for 36 years now and he's the second person with such skills I've ever met including racetrack fanatics. He told me I was a customer hard to please but he let me assist and told me everything about the service and what to look for in case of problems. I can attest this truck is very nicely built and straightforward for those of you who are willing to get underneath it. I bought him a few bottles of champagne and my family will buy other vehicles there as long as he's around.
Tough life for our local top models :shades:
I guess I got lucky as to which dealer I purchased from.
My CRD is going to the dealer on Monday to have the brakes checked. The alloy wheels seem to get much hotter than those on my old Dodge Dakota. I am concerned that the calipers are not fully letting go when I take my foot off the brake pedal. I still get an occasional sticking or binding sensation when I release the brake pedal. Temperature is not relevant nor is the type of driving. I will let you know what they find, if anything.
Have a great weekend.
Can we also report on unsatisfactory experiences?
Steve, Host
Can we also report on unsatisfactory experiences?
Maybe that will get some people's attention at Jeep. I was considering a CRD, but they certainly need to get this resolved instead of giving people the run around and being too lazy think beyond computer codes.
I found and quizzed the two mechanics in the shop area about the CRD on the day we saw it on the show room floor, took a test drive and bought it. I knew nothing about the CRD, I was there to enter a contest. The older mechanic asked if I really wanted to be a first year buyer. The younger mechanic said go for it. They were both right.
We are experiencing some issues (suppliers/assembly line) and the CRD is great.
Courtesy Jeep-Chrysler in Rockville, MD
It took a week but they went through it and found the problem.
I had several conversations with the service manager and the service tech about what they were doing and finding.
In the overall, I am quite happy with the service department.
It still has a slight fade off the line with a cold engine.
Has anyone had this problem and what did they do about it?
My SW Colorado dealer is:
Being given one more week due to the courtesy of the tech that went on the test drive with me; then it’s the “wall of shame” for this outfit followed by a “Five-Star” complaint.
mdamick:
I have the slight fade too but at this point, it’s a bit low on my list. Good luck!
No check-engine light but just about everything else mentioned here.
-Remove one of the front wheels and while the engine is stopped give a bit of play to the brake pads like if you wanted to remove them.
-Turn the engine on, the pads should stay where they had been left.
-Ask someone to apply the brakes while you observe the pads moving in. Leave the engine running.
If there is a vacuum booster malfunction you will not be able to open the pads. If this is the case turn the engine off and wait a few seconds before you do the check again. Be shure to have the transmission dis-engaged and don't ask a child for help :mad:
This is my FIRST posting in here and I hope that i can be of some help. Have owned the diesel since 6-11-0-5. NOTHING but praise for it. After endeless searches, I have FINALLY found aftermarket oil filters for it. Here are the numbers:
PUROLATOR PL25230
L25230
FRAM PH8316
NAPA 1315
Hope this helps someone out!
As of 3 weeks ago there was no aftermarket fuel filter & jeep wants $40 for a Mopar.
The NAPA oil filter works just fine.
Your overheat is just the reason I had my dealership order a new fan, as the clutch is bad. I am waiting for my Chalet camping trailer to be build (10 week lead time) and I want to insure there is no overheat while I'm towing.
My overheat comes while climbing long hills in 95 deg weather with the A/C on.
Have them ck the fan clutch as it could be bad like mine.
Good luck.
I expect that no more 2005 units are coming out of the plant and production is now devoted to the 2006 model year. Therefore new 2005 units are limited to stock inventory and perhapse a number of units that are in storage yards somewhere.
Does anyone have a line on when the 2006 model will begin showing up at the dealers? I understand there is a longer wheelbase Liberty coming out in 2006.
Keep up the good information flow!
bigpapa
Depending upon the route you took there are some long hills. How did it pull and did you have the OD locked out? Would it heat up only on hills or also on the flats?
My trailer is 4000# and is a slab fronted beast. It will drop the mileage on my Cummins by 1/3 and the Durango I was driving by 1/2. The trailer rating is one reason I bought the CRD. I do not tow often but I definitely wanted the capability.
I think that a transmission temp gauge would probably be a good idea and also an extra cooler, but if you are not having to work the thing that hard it should not need them.
Does anybody have any idea what the maximum trans temp should be?
I would be interested in finding out exactly what failed-this would give us all an idea of what the Jeep is capable of.