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You may find that the mileage charge will eat at what you paid by so much that you are stuck with your vehicle.
I would only do this if everything possible has been done with the dealer behind you all the way. If you have not maintained your vehicle by the owners manual, with 0-40 or 5-40 oil I would not give you much of a chance, as these are loop holes they look for. Good luck.
Farout
This came up in Ohio where a Toyota dealer gave a customer a loaner while their 4Runner was in the shop for 55 days. The lawyer got a decision that said while it was a nice gesture on Toyota's part, it wasn't a defense to the lemon law. link.
Of course it took four years for the 4Runner owner to win, so yeah, the cards are stacked with the dealer.
Steve, Host
Farout
I think DCX should give us a rebate to be used on the purchase of a new Jeep, to be used in the next 18 months. I did not know that I bought a "test market" vehicle.
Farout
Various sources of fuel-Use Power Service on every tank.
I tend to drive it easy, but pull a pickup box trailer every once in a while. Got 15 mpg pulling into a headwind.
Normally getting 23-25.
Farout
Changed my CRD oil at 1,500 miles - used Shell Synthetic Rotella 5-40 from Wally World.
Meets CI-4+ and priced significantly less than the Mobil-1. I suspect the Mobil-1 is a better oil, but if the Shell meets CI-4+ and I'm changing every 6000 miles, don't know if I'd see any real benefit from the Mobil.
Others with more expertise about oil are encouraged to pipe in.
Rotella 5-40 is a good oil and the price is right as well, but I do not like Fram filters, I would prefer the oe filter but Wix is most likely just as good.
Farout
Yes, I considered a VW Passat TDI wagon but I am glad I did not buy one. First, VW oil specs are in constant flux, the oil is hard to get outside of the dealer network, doing an oil change on the Passat is a bit of a challenge without a lift or pit. Parts are expensive on the VW also, especially brake parts. Also, you have to wait for parts from them too.
So what is the big deal. Right now I am paying ten to thirteen cents less per gallon for fuel than gassers do. My CRD has been in the dealer for a total of 2.5 days in 13 months. That is two visits, one for a software update, another for a blow hose from the turbo to the aftercooler. The latter part came in 1.5 days (was ordered late in the business day).
I think we should count ourselves lucky to have these vehicles. With the price of fuel more than likely to increase, at least there are 11,000 of us who are ahead of everyone else driving gassers.
6th problem same as the 5th - they are going to replace the front transmission pump and torque converter. I like the vehicle but the problems are too many for me, they need this vehicle back! The way I read the Alabama Lemon Law to qualify is either #1 4 times for the same problem or #2 over 30 days for a combination of problems. I am in contact with a national lemon lawyer, but haven't come to an agreement with him yet. Thanks for the advice. :lemon:
I have been having problems with the "Yellow" check engine light. I've been to the dealer 4 times. They think they've finally got it figured out. Looks to be a mass flow sensor. They've got one ordered for me. After the last visit, the light goes out as it should. However, I believe they've put a dummy value into the computer to simulate the mass flow sensor. It fools the computer and the yeller light goes out. Anybody else have this particular experience?
How many of these Jeep CRDs have they sold in Europe? If they've sold a lot, then I'd think the parts will be around. I assume the engines can't be that different from the US to Europe.
Would it be a good idea to order an EGR valve and have one on hand since they seem to take so long to get?
It bothers me a bit that they won't be making this model with the diesel engine for the US. Will they still be making the diesel engine in the KJ Jeep for Canada? If they do, parts should be available in the US.
I live in a land where the salt fed rustworms are very prevalent so I guess the body of the Jeep will be long gone before the diesel engine stops beating.
This sure has been a fun car to drive.
To achieve this the glow plugs need be at a given temperature and the ECU does it's routine sending minimal quantities of fuel compared to an older type of diesel.
I've personnaly tried to re-start the engine immediately even when it was hot, and it wouldn't start. We also have to wait for the fuel pressure to build up in the system. So, it takes two seconds but it works well everytime
Your vehicle has a wholesale value less than half your window sticker when you bought in February 2005. But truthfully sir, why don't you find someone in California who just is dying to have a diesel.
I looked at my 5/100Maximum Care Service Contract, and no where does this list the EGR as covered. However the brochure for the Service Contracts for Maximum Care "5007 reasons to buy the finest protection in the industry..." the list does say "Valve, EGR control". Does this mean EGR Control Valve, or just the control for the EGR Valve? These things are written so you need a lawyer to understand this. This was printed in and effective Sept. 2005, we bought our CRD Sept. 29, 2005. I will call the Service Contract people on Monday June 26.
I want to believe this CRD is going to be a long lasting vehicle. But with 8 times in the shop for other problems than most have had, I am concerned that we may face what others have reported some where down the near future. I went against my usual rule of not buying a new vehicle on the first year. I thought the body being 4 years old design that the engine would be no problem. Add to this that we have been a "test market" for DCX, and I am very concerned about the quality of this CRD.
I E-Mailed V M Motori and asked them, because DCX says we should use Mobil 1 0-40w and that DCX says if 0-40w we can use 5-40w. However on my last E-mail from VM Motori they told me 5-40w when the temp is below 10C and 10-40w when the temp is above 10C. I asked them to be specfic as to which weight they would use. When I checked the Mobil oil web site it says 5-40w is what they say. If you look at the comparison of of the oils the 0-40w is NOT really what we should use, and 5-40w is designed specifically for this CRD diesel. I would gladly go to 10-40w if VM Motori says that's the best to use.
Farout
Maybe the only protection we have is Class Action. Lemmon Laws aren't worth the time it took the legislative lawyers and the car manufacturer's lobyists time to count the cash payments. This is my 15th new vehicle, and never had this kind of service problem....not even close.
Federal regulators have expanded a defect investigation of the front suspension on the Jeep Liberty to include all 2002 to 2006 models of the vehicles with the suspension.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Office of Defects Investigation is looking into allegations that the lower ball joint assembly can separate and fail on the Liberty.
Regulators have received 495 complaints describing a lower ball joint failure in the suspension.
The complaints include reports of three injuries and two crashes.
The ball joints, which in some models were the subject of a prior recall, can loose lubrication and corrode and that can result in separation and failure.
Chrysler has changed the design and material used in the Liberty’s suspension since the initial safety recall. NHTSA is looking at that recall to determine if the changes and modifications solved the ball joint problem in the suspension.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2006/jeep_liberty_probe.html
REPROGRAM BODY CONTROL MODULE Issue Date: 05/23/2006
REPROGRAM BODY CONTROL MODULE
Dear: (Name)
Customer satisfaction is very important to DaimlerChrysler. Accordingly, we are recommending the
following service on some 2006 model year Jeep® Liberty vehicles.
The problem is... The software programmed into the body control module on your Liberty
(VIN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) may cause the battery to discharge and prevent
your vehicle from starting under certain conditions.
What your dealer
will do...
DaimlerChrysler will repair your vehicle free of charge (parts and labor).
To do this, your dealer will reprogram the Body Control Module. The work
will take about ½ hour to complete. However, additional time may be
necessary depending on how dealer appointments are scheduled and
processed.
What you must
do...
Simply contact your dealer right away to schedule a service appointment.
Remember to bring this letter with you to your dealer.
If you need help... If you have questions or concerns which your dealer is unable to resolve,
please contact DaimlerChrysler at 1-800-853-1403.
Please help us update our records, by filling out the enclosed prepaid postcard, if any of the
conditions listed on the card apply to you or your vehicle. Be sure to print the last eight (8)
characters of the VIN (VVVVVVVV) and notification code F21 on the postcard.
If you have already experienced this condition and have paid to have it repaired, you may send your
original receipts and/or other adequate proof of payment to the following address for reimbursement:
DaimlerChrysler P.O. Box 4639 Oak Ridge, TN 37831, Attention: Reimbursement.
We're sorry for any inconvenience, but we believe that this service will help to ensure your
continuing satisfaction with your vehicle. Thank you for your attention to this important matter.
Customer Services Field Operations
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Notification Code F21
SAFETY RECALL E14
TRANSMISSION CUP PLUG BRACKET
Dear: (Name)
This notice is sent to you in accordance with the requirements of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act.
DaimlerChrysler Corporation has decided that a defect, which relates to motor vehicle safety, exists in some 2005 and 2006 model year Dodge Durango, Dakota, Charger and Magnum, Jeep® Liberty and Wrangler, and Chrysler 300C vehicles equipped with an automatic transmission.
The problem is...
The cup plug that retains the park pawl anchor shaft in your vehicle’s transmission (VIN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) may be improperly installed. This could allow the park pawl shaft to move out of position and prevent park engagement. If this occurs and the parking brake is not applied, the vehicle could roll away and cause an accident without warning.
What your dealer will do...
DaimlerChrysler will repair your vehicle free of charge (parts and labor). To do this, your dealer will install a bracket in your transmission. The work will take about 1½ hours to complete. However, additional time may be necessary depending on how dealer appointments are scheduled and processed.
What you must do to ensure your safety...
Simply contact your dealer right away to schedule a service appointment. Ask the dealer to hold the part for your vehicle or to order it before your appointment. Remember to bring this letter with you to your dealer. In addition, we recommend that you always apply the parking brake before exiting the vehicle.
If you need help...
If you have questions or concerns which your dealer is unable to resolve, please contact DaimlerChrysler at 1-800-853-1403.
Please help us update our records, by filling out the enclosed prepaid postcard, if any of the conditions listed on the card apply to you or your vehicle. Be sure to print the last eight (8) characters of the VIN (VVVVVVVV) and notification code E14 on the postcard.
If you have already experienced this condition and have paid to have it repaired, you may send your original receipts and/or other adequate proof of payment to the following address for reimbursement: DaimlerChrysler, P.O. Box 4639, Oak Ridge, TN 37831, Attention: Reimbursement.
If your dealer fails or is unable to remedy this defect without charge and within a reasonable time, you may submit a written complaint to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 400 Seventh Street, S.W., Washington, DC 20590, or call the toll-free Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to http://www.safercar.gov.
We're sorry for any inconvenience, but we are sincerely concerned about your safety. Thank you for your attention to this important matter.
Customer Services Field Operations
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Notification Code E14
Note to lessors receiving this recall: Federal regulation requires that you forward this recall notice to the lessee within 10 days.
Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
JEEP / LIBERTY 2002-2006
JEEP / LIBERTY 4X4 2006
Manufacturer : DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION
Component :
SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM:LOWER BALL JOINT
Date Investigation Opened : May 31, 2006
Date Investigation Closed : Open
Summary:
ON JANUARY 6, 2006, THE OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATION (ODI) OPENED A PRELIMINARY EVALUATION TO INVESTIGATE ALLEGED FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT SEPARATION WHILE DRIVING IN CERTAIN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2004 JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES. ODI SENT A LETTER TO THE MANUFACTURER ON FEBRUARY 7, 2006, REQUESTING INFORMATION ABOUT THESE AND OTHER JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES. BASED ON THE INFORMATION REVIEWED IN PE06-004, THE RANGE OF SUBJECT VEHICLES UNDER INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN EXPANDED TO INCLUDE ALL MY 2002-06 JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES THAT USE THE SAME OR SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT. ODI IS AWARE OF 495 NON-DUPLICATIVE COMPLAINTS THAT ALLEGE INVOLUNTARY FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT SEPARATION IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. ODI IS ALSO AWARE OF ONE NON-INJURY CRASH AND THREE ALLEGED INJURY INCIDENTS (TWO CRASH INCIDENTS AND ONE NON-CRASH INCIDENT) RELATED TO THE ALLEGED DEFECT RESULTING IN MINOR INJURIES. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE COMPLAINT COUNTS REPORTED ABOVE ONLY INCLUDE MY 2002-03 LIBERTY VEHICLES IF IT WAS DETERMINED THE ALLEGED BALL JOINT SEPARATION OCCURRED AFTER PRIOR RECALL REPAIRS WERE PERFORMED (SEE BELOW) OR IF THE VEHICLE WAS NOT SUBJECT TO THE PRIOR RECALL BECAUSE ITS VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (VIN) FELL OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF AFFECTED VEHICLES IDENTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER. THE MANUFACTURER CONDUCTED A PRIOR SAFETY RECALL (03V-460) TO ADDRESS THE SUBJECT ISSUE IN CERTAIN MY 2002-03 JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES. ACCORDING TO DAIMLERCHRYSLER’S DEFECT INFORMATION REPORT TO THE AGENCY (IN ACCORDANCE WITH 49 CFR PART 573) DATED NOVEMBER 4, 2003, “THE CONSTANT TENSION LOWER CONTROL ARM BALL JOINTS MAY EXPERIENCE A LOSS OF LUBRICATION WHICH CAN LEAD TO CORROSION, ACCELERATED WEAR AND POSSIBLY SEPARATION FROM THE STEERING KNUCKLE. A CONSTANT TENSION BALL JOINT WHICH HAS SEPARATED FROM THE KNUCKLE MAY RESULT IN LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL WITH MINIMAL ADVANCED WARNING.” THE MANUFACTURER HAS MADE NUMEROUS CHANGES IN THE DESIGN, MATERIAL COMPOSITION, MANUFACTURE, QUALITY CONTROL, SUPPLY, AND INSTALLATION OF THE SUBJECT BALL JOINTS SINCE THE PRIOR SAFETY RECALL WAS INITIATED IN AN EFFORT TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE WITH RESPECT TO SEALING, LUBRICATION, AND JOINT RETENTION CAPABILITY. THE MANUFACTURER'S INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGED FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT SEPARATION IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES IS ONGOING. ACCORDINGLY, THIS INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO AN ENGINEERING ANALYSIS TO FURTHER STUDY THE FREQUENCY AND SCOPE OF THE ALLEGED DEFECT AND THE ADEQUACY OF THE REMEDY PROVIDED BY THE PRIOR SAFETY RECALL.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/defectsearch.cfm
I had a similar problem at 13,000 miles and they replaced one glow plug and the control module that regulates the amount of time the glow plugs stay on.
I would verify that they have the parts as they had my liberty apart and found that they had to order the module and glow plug that took four days to arrive.
Tell me if you feel the same if and when your vehicle spends weeks in the shop waiting for parts and the tech to to quit scratching his head long enough to get it fixed.
I was waiting for someone to chime in with a response.
Do you post elsewhere? Lost, forum, country, etc?
Moog, says they have built and sell a replacement lower ball joint. Google them and see their solution.
One of the jeep(Liberty/Cherokee), (Model KJ) web sites had a description of the operation of the front end suspension design and why they think it is an inherent design flaw. I agree. Remember my many references to my very old cadillac.
Supposedly, good old jeep engineers left for the ifs vs sfa design of our cherokee for this girly vehicle designed by Daimler? and for other things? We all know dcx was the first to buy the cheapest part from wherever in the world.
The EGR system will shut down by the ECM after 60 seconds of continous engine idling to improve idle quality and the air flow control valve will close completely when the vehicle is shut off to assist with engine shake on shut down.
1. Oil leak - 24mm wrench to tighten an engine plug between the power steering pump and the engine block (no wonder I couldn't find it by laying on the garage floor).
2. Tranny - still working on it and gave them carte blanche if dcx has no clue. I'm trying to save the tc and transmission. 60mph step on it and the result is engine to 4000 rpms and one mph increase a second or two later from the transmission. This weekend at 70 mph rpms went to 3500 and again nothing from the transmission.
3. Driving a T & C van - ball joints and they are on back order. If dcx can't provide them, I okayed (I will Pay for) Moog greasable aftermarket ball joints if necessary.
Along with the above-I waited too long to put on the kyb's. If dcx won't approve new shocks to stop the porpoising, I told them I would pay for expensive new factory shocks while the lbj's have to be replaced.
In the EU diesel is S30 with 51+ cetane, while domestic diesel is S500 with 40 to 43 cetane. So which fuel will give a cleaner burn with less particulate? Not to hard to figure out, is it.
Your second statement shows a great deal of frustration. I had to wait 1.5 days for a part. If I had to wait longer, I would have. The dealer paid for a rental car for me to use. Sounds like your tech is not the brightest. The tech who has serviced my diesel is pretty darn good and has had little or no trouble servicing the CRD. He has had to replace the EGR valve and other part on another CRD several times, but according to him, it is no real big deal. Turn around on getting the parts was less than four business days according to him.
As to the ball joints, I think DC will pay for them if they fail and no dealer is around. I believe they will reimburse you, but I am not 100% sure about that.
I have 13 qts of redline and dcx grease and ls additive but we are hoping to have one more oil change and then a trade in with payout walkaway or drive to Missouri where one source states there is a demand for the crd.
So what if we get 15 city and 20 highway and gas stays at $3 a gallon, at least we can get there and when not on the highway not doing something in the garage.
Can everyone bring their CRD to your tech.....why not....drive over to Europe for a fill-up ....then over to your dealership for a quickie fix-it. No problem.
Why did dcx wait until 2005? VM improves the 2.5 to 2.8 and gives the garret and not the hoslett as a non waste gate turbo. Emissions are getting more stringent. The old cherokee would've been better than the liberty for a chassis. Diesel fuel EU vs USA. No real diesel ccv filter. Wrong oil viscosity recommended. Knowledge that dealers paid money to dcx for the priviledge to have mechanics trained (did someone tell me $10,000) and then build a handful of underengineered and poorly built vehicles at a factory to be replaced by the new north toledo facility. Beta testers who did not get the product for free.
1. Are the 545's stuck on the back of hemi engines failing at the same rate as those stuck on the CRD? If yes, then the torque converter design is probably at fault. If no, and the problem is unique to the CRD, then I blame DC. Gassers, like the hemi make most of their torque at about 3600 - 3800 RPM range,our little CRD's make gobs of torque at 1800 RPM. Could be a good chance that our little diesel is tearing the 545 apart.
2. DC runs these trans' fairly warm. I am wondering if they are running these 545's too warm. Even though I do not tow, I am considering adding an external trans cooler. This was recommended to me by a good trans tech.
I did not realize your fuel economy was so poor. I saw the earlier post where you stated that the engine was turning over at 3500 RPM at 70 mph! Something is definitely wrong here. 70 mph shows about 2050 - 2150 RPM on my tach.
Methinks I will call a few shops in A.M. to see what is really cooking with this trans.
Good night.
And when I get my CRD back this time, I can retire on that $2 I will save on a fill-up.
As to the fuel, I researched the differences. I feel comfortable with what I have discovered and learned. What have I done? I have added cetane improvers and some detergent packages. Have they helped. In some respects, I think they have, but in all honesty I do not know. I have been trying to duplicate some of the fuel parameters that they have in the EU.
You are not the only person in this forum who is having issues with their CRD. Perhaps my turn will come in due time. If I had the same issue that some of the people are having with their CRD's, I would probably be angry enough to carry my CRD to Auburn Hills and drop it on Tom LaSorda's head.
I am empathetic with those who are having issues with their CRD. I am definitely not gloating. I wish there was more I could do to help these people.
If you want to bring your CRD to my dealership, let me know. I will definitely help you get good service there.
So, stop whining. If you don't like it, sell it, trade it, or junk it. Its just a car!
There are ways you can find any jeeps build date and who owns it and all the work done it at CarMax, Jeep ect.
Merry Christmass
Farout
Garrett turbos are pretty decent critters and are hard to kill. Holsets are good too, but I do not believe they offer a VGT turbo. I had a Garrett on a Dodge Daytona Turbo and it was trouble free, even though I was a little rough on it at times.
I agree to a point about the old Cherokee chassis. I like a frame on body design, but there is that weight penalty.
The oil business (viscosity) is to maximize fuel economy and not much else. With such a large viscosity range, come the inherent issues/problems like high vaporization rates, tons of goo in the CCV, etc.
The engineering is almost there. The problem is that the bean counters have too much input and they will not let the engineers do it right in the first place.
The good thing is I have been driving it for weeks now while the EGR is on order and it is running great and gained about 1mpg. Must be stuck in the best position...
The fin placed between my disk and ball joint doesn't show on the Service Manual drawing: http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/Ball_joint.bmp
Could there be a difference between the EU truck and yours?
I agree the Moog ball joint will be top quality, but if the radiated heat coming from the disk is not deflected, the new skirt will be baked as well.
The manual says we can accept 1.5mm play back to back. This should become audible and the steering should also feel loose before it breaks.
For sure there is one thing to stay away from: the high pressure car wash or the hand held high pressure "Karcher" systems. There is so much pressure when the nozzle gets close to a sealing lip or skirt that the water penetrates into the grease compartment and problems begin.