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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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  • tailgatetailgate Member Posts: 32
    MOOG seems to be a problem solving company :), and has devoloped a good reputation for this. I have had two different Dodge trucks with poorly designed Travel link bar ends, and I had MOOG's replacement install on both. One truck was a 94, the other 98. That gave DC plenty of time to use/replace them at the assmenbly line. :(
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    caribou1 wrote "Your egr is pneumatic" caps not bb's
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    winter2 wrote "I am considering purchasing some MOOG ball joints (lower)..." repeating the comment from the previous service department - the ball joints come in boxes marked Moog - never saw can't confrim or deny.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    This reply is for you and Tailgate. If I buy my own ball joints, then I can open the box and inspect the items before I pay for them. That way, there is no question as to what I purchased.

    MOOG suspension parts are about as good as they get and I have used their tie rod ends in the past with really good results.
  • petoskiinspetoskiins Member Posts: 12
    I was sent a letter from DCX asking me to bring in my liberty CRD so they could reprogram the Body Control Module. They said an error can cause the BCM to drain the battery. My build date is 02-06. Has anyone else received this notice or had their battery drain because of this?

    Farout and Tailgate,
    I live in Cape Girardeau MO. and My son is starting school this week in Rolla so I will be making many trips to your part of MO. I recorded my highest MPG avg last weekend driving there and back. 27.3 MPG! I have 10k miles so far.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    new2diesel: I am a little confused. If DCX is starting a buy back with you, why would you want to put ball joints in it?
    Here is a real kicker, MOOG does NOT make and ball joints for the 2005 or 2006 yet! So we will have to go with whatever DCX replaces them with. If you want to follow this up call a parts house and ask.
    New2diesel, you just might be hooked on this CRD, do you have diesel running in you blood? I think it just might be.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    tired old dave: MOOG does not make the ball joints for 2005 or 2006 yet. Now what?

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    tailgate: Mercy no, I am not looking to replace my 2005 CRD. I am making payments perhaps for the rest of my life, if I live to be 5 years longer than I can think about replacing it or it will out live me.
    We lived in Buckeye and I worked at the Pale Verde Nuclear power plant while it was being built. We lived in Phoenix as well.
    We live near the 70 mile marker, Hwy 5 see's a lot of travel from us as well. We really love it here, we built our own house, so it means so much more to us.
    We have no bio fuel here in our area that we know of. This employee pricing is a joke! The $3,000. rebate plus the $500. for being in the Navy was a far better bargain, that's what we got. It's no where near that now. Of all the DCX vehicles to only one that might appeal to us is the Jeep Patriot, and even that I am not real sure about. That boxy ugly Compass and Caliber are such a mix maush bunch of styling, and that CVT transmission made in Mexico is still in testing as far as I am concerned. The PT Cruiser sucks fuel and it's a 2.4 4 cyc. We had one for two days and 19 mpg. The Stratus with the same engine and the car weight is much more got 20 mpg. I think the 2.4 engine is not too good on gas.
    Maybe it's just us, but we find it harder to keep the tank on full at $2.899 a gallon and diesel at $3.169. The way people are buying these Caliber's getting 24 mpg and the "Hemi" cars and trucks getting in the mid teens mpg, you would never know that fuel is at an all time high. Maybe some one should tell DCX, and bring them back to reality!

    Farout
  • tailgatetailgate Member Posts: 32
    I work on campus as a staff member, at the UMR Nuclear Reactor. Has you son picked a major yet. Try stopping by and/or calling and asking for the Guy with the Diesel Jeep. We can then compare notes. I haven't put but maybe 1000 miles on my thus far, but I bought it used
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    Thanks for the replies. It should not be old fuel. The BP station where I refuel moves alot of fuel and I just filled the tank last Thursday. I will do some investigating this weekend.

    The CRD run flawless today, both to and from the office. I filled tonight and the mileage was 29.5 corrected. This ties my previous best. The 30 mpg is still eluding me! :(
  • justmecwjustmecw Member Posts: 20
    From reading on this forum I have noticed that there is two distinct groups of owners here. Ones that get in the low 20 mpg and the ones that get high 20's. I would like to find out what is different between the groups and i dont think is just the driver. Because i am one of the owners that get low 20's no matter how i drive. I have driven like an 80 yr old great grandmother and like Im trying to qualify for a nascar race and either way i get not much different in gas milage.

    I had read here that the stock muffler is a 2 1/4 inch when the rest of the exhaust is 2 1/2. I looked under my truck and sure enough it was a 2 1/4. I just had it changed out for a 2 1/2 flow master. On the drive it was easy to notice the difference. Big improvement in power. Ill just have to wait to see if it makes a difference in MPG.

    I was just thinking that maybe the high 20 group came with a 2 1/2 muffler.

    Let me know.
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    i have the areo turbine muffler it didn't help millage i get about eighteen to nineteen in town and about twenty two on the highway but love my crd anyway
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    That's where I was headed before my lbj's were replaced on July 3rd. I always wanted good shocks inside the front springs (strut assembly whatever). Have you looked at the shop manual-you disassemble the lbj's to install shocks. I wanted all good parts at the same time.

    Like to have matching parts, talked to new service writer, she said to bring it in and let the mechanic see if he condemns them and get new rears to match the factory fronts while still in warranty. With the front back up in height with new front lbj's, the back is rebound bumping. This I can schedule when I want sometime soon when it's cooler for the mechanics.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Thanks for confirming my impressions. Who posted that funny line about testing dcx loaner cars while their crd was in the shop. I couldn't get mpg's from any dcx loaner.

    Farout, someone here at civic forum mentioned $3.50/gal for our Christmas present. This is getting me back to another malibu push rod. Even in this heat, better half is up to 26.5mpg commuting.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    I have seen everywhere from 17 to 30.5 mpg in my travels (10,800 miles and counting). The only tanks above 26mpg involved long stretches of constant 55-62mph driving on 2 lane highways with no stop signs or stoplights. I suspect the people getting upper 20's live in areas where this is normal driving. My normal driving is a mix of city and 75mph freeway, and in that driving I get 22-24mpg. That's still not bad for a vehicle this weight, IMHO.

    Very interesting on the muffler. How much louder is it now? I might consider doing that if the noise isn't too much more.
  • justmecwjustmecw Member Posts: 20
    Not much loader.
    Now I can hear the exhaust outside the vehical. I could not before. But inside does not sound louder at all during normal driving and just a little louder when I floor it. Still waiting to see if it changes my MPG.
  • new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    Farout,
    I think you confused me with another post. I have no intentions of putting ball joints on the CRD. As soon as it is fixed it is gone.

    I spoke with DCX again today about the lemon law and the Sr. Customer Service guy was really honest with me. He said the District Service Manager who calls the shots on buy backs is incentivised to not buy vehicles back. He said they are trained to find every loop hole in the lemon law and to try and keep DCX from having to buy back or settle. Hows that for a service friendly company. I think I would like to ask Dr. "Z" about that on public tv! Looks like I need to get a lawyer involved - unfortunately they take $3,500 of any settle for the easy ones and $3,500 plus $250 an hour for contested ones. So in the end, the consumer gets it again. Don't you just love our systems in this country?
    :sick:
    I'll keep you posted.
  • prairiegirlprairiegirl Member Posts: 21
    While filling with diesel fuel at Walmart (Murphey) I noticed a sign posted on the pump stating it was illegal to use this fuel in 2007 and later vehicles. Hmmm. I assume this means someone will need to provide 'cleaner' fuel for the newer vehicles. So, are we going to have to look for stations who carry the 'dirty' diesel for our 2006 or will it be safe to run any diesel in the 2006?
    PrairieGirl
  • pttrilliumpttrillium Member Posts: 62
    Your 2006 will run fine on the new fuel due to arrive.

    The stickers on the pumps are due to get new stickers once the new fuel has come in and the sulfur from the old pump is 'rinsed out' by the new fuel being pumped into the cars.

    Sulfur is in the pipelines, trucks and tanks right now. To get to ULSD (Ultra low sulfur diesel) specifications required by October, most large suppliers are already dispensing ULSD and as they do so the sulfur leftover from the old fuel will dissipate.

    The new ULSD will have an additive to add lubricity back into the fuel, protecting your injectors. In some states, the addition of 2% Biodiesel will add some of that lubricity back in since Biodiesel is beneficial that way.

    I'm guessing that stations unable to comply and with low volumes will have those stickers longer than busy stations with lots of turnover. In my mind, come October, I'll be wanting to look for places busy enough to sell and comply with the new ULSD standard.

    Besides, ULSD is much better for the air we breathe.

    :)
  • pttrilliumpttrillium Member Posts: 62
    I was talking to a Jeep Dealer at a summer festival by Lake Michigan about the new Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD which he said we should be seeing by early 2007 and he mentioned that at a meeting in Chicago they said that by mid summer they'd be offering a CRD in the Commander as well.

    Has anyone else heard the same thing????
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    do you think the low sulfer fuel will cure the egr valve and throttle body problems on the crd i love my crd but could get expensive after warranty runs out
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    Tonight on the way home I was driving on the interstate going my usual 65 mph when I noticed a slight engine miss. This lasted about 10 seconds and then the engine ran smooth for another 1/2 mile and then it happened the second time. Just enough to notice. Not severe like the other day. Also, this time the engine was fully warmed as I was driving for at least 15 minutes.

    This weekend I am going to drain some fuel from the fuel filter to see if there is any water. I may replace the fuel filter but my dealer does not have any in stock and it will take until next week to get one. Does anyone know of another high quality fuel filter that is readily available?

    Any thoughts on my engine miss?

    I knew I jinxed myself when I said "I love my CRD"! :blush:
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The news is that the engine in both the 2005 and 2006 CRD is designed to run on S15. If you look in the owners manual, it recommends ULSD. In the EU diesel fuel is S30.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Sounds like a few possible issues.

    1. Rotten fuel.
    2. Water in the fuel.
    3. A bad injector or loose connection to an injector as they are now electronically controlled.

    Before you go crazy changing the fuel filter, drain the filter to see what you find. Add some additive from Red Line (Diesel Catalyst) or from Amsoil to see if you can resolve the problem that way. These additives will gather up any moisture (to a point) and allow it to pass through the fuel system and be burned without harming the injection system.

    I had a mild miss issue when cold and with the first start of the day and only in the first 100 to 200 feet. I add liberal doses of cetane improver too along with the other aforementioned products and have cured that miss.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    It may not totally cure the problem, but it will help quite a bit. Less sulfur, less PM, less abrasive material to get stuck in the EGR valve.

    When S15 really takes hold, the cetane will also improve and be in the upper 40s. I would rather see 54 or more cetane. I will still add cetane improver to bring the cetane above 50. Higher cetane yields a faster cleaner burn, less PM, and supposedly better fuel economy.

    I would love to see diesel made from coal or from natural gas as a Fischer-Troppich fuel. With a cetane value near 74 or 75, no sulfur, no aromatics, and other extraneous crap, emissions from diesel will be far cleaner than they are now.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Can you explain how to drain water out of the fuel filter/water separator? I would like to do that on mine but I can't find any instructions in the owner's manual.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    +1

    Excellent response.

    The ULSD may cost a bit more and will have slightly less energy content - so slight that many people won't notice a difference in mpg. It will be much better for the air. I would like to hope it would be better for our EGR valves but Caribou1 has suggested that isn't the case (Europe has had much lower sulfur diesel for a while and they still have EGR valve failures).
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    zachinmi - there is a drain valve in the bottom of the fuel filter.

    winter2 - Thanks for the suggestions. I have been using Stanadyne Performance Formula since day one and refuel at the same station. This is a second tank from the station only six (6) days later. Maybe I need to do a double dose of Stanadyne. I don't think it is bad fuel but it could be. I will also check the connectors.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    New2diesel: My own experience with a lemon buy back, was done at the request of the dealer I bought it from. I had a 1996 Dodge Caravan. In 6 months we had 21,000 miles on it. We were towed perhaps 5 times and just about everything short of the engine (3. L V-6) went bad. The dealerships manager called Chrysler and the zone manager. The Zone manager called me and my bride, to meet him at the dealership. When we got there the Zone manager had a brand new Caravan exactally like the one we had and her said we could have that in exchange for ours or we could pick another on off the lot and pay the difference. We took the one he had there. It was a substitution of vehicles on the loan. The cost was $12. We had a complete folder of EVERYTHING that had been done and we had driven with a pilot on the van for 5 days that proved it had issues.
    I have learned that if, you will consider another DCX vehicle then they are more open to work with you. As my dealer has told us a new buy back program usually charges $.50 cents a mile for the miles you have driven, and you absorb the Taxes and registration you have paid. For me in Missouri the taxes and registration are pretty hefty. My feelings are if you get back the $15,500 you got for the trade in you might be lucky. So either way it's a very sad experience for you. I feel your frustration, and anger.
    If you have a TV channel in your area that does consumer watch dog things for consumers that might be of help as well. I will say that the first person to loose their temper is almost always the looser. These Sr. Customer Service guys are all part of the way they prepare to ware you down. He is paid to win your confidence, and prep you to be ready to accept whatever they offer, so you will think they have done you a big deal. Be ware of smooth talking people in the vehicle making, or selling business. Be cool and record everything with their full knowledge. Be extra polite and keep your cool, and be dumb like a fox. See if you can keep a step ahead of the game. You have nothing to lose at this point, and everything to gain.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    pttrillium: On Mikes Totally Free Jeep News on the web, there was such a post by some vehicle news article that gave the new Phoenix engines and the MB Blue Tec engines and which and when the Jeeps would get the engines in the future. Yes that is what the article said. However I do not see it scheduled in www.airfleet.com, which is the production schedules for DCX, Ford and GM. Hope this helps.
    Oh, these Bluetec CRD's just might be rather pricey.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    synlubes. If the EGR change was done right, by changing the PCM at the same time, you should not have to replace the EGR again.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    zachinmi: I got form my Service manager a diagram and an instruction sheet with the information you asked for. Cost me nothing at all. The Tec needed it to see if mine had water in it. Rather funny that even the tecs at first had to learn all this themselves as well. Maybe your dealer can be as informative as well.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    farmer52: Your dealers fuel may be perfect, but if he has not changed his filters that could be a problem as well. This happened to the BP station we buy gas from, the gas was messed up and the pumps gradually would not pump. Hope this helps as well.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Diesel here has gone DOWN from $3.199 to $3.059 and in the Flying J it's $2.999. Hope it keeps going way down, below gas!

    Farout
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    ...changing the PCM...

    Was thinking about this and was going to search this forum but you conveniently posted this.

    Farout, did your mileage go up after the PCM change? Was this the same computer with the "fly" in it from last year that someone else posted? The question of good crd mpg vs bad crd mpg could be one of fuel, driver, and also maybe the PCM's. This got me thinking about the poster who drove like he stole it and then like grandma - no difference. Then there is synlubes (amsoil dealer?) doing things right but 18-22 mpg's. Does ours need a new pcm to go with our new tcm?
  • eebroeebro Member Posts: 80
    Farmer52,

    I noticed you posted the speed at which the "misses" occurred as being 65 mph. This is the same speed that the shudder occurred in my and other's CRDs. It could be construed to be an engine miss, but more than likely it is this transmission shudder about which I've opined in earlier posts. If you accelerate 5 mph beyond or coast 5 mph below the shudder points, you should notice that the shudder will dissipate quickly.

    I've had 3 TCM TSBs applied where the final application (TSB 18-023-06) appears to finally fix the shuddering at 55 and 65 mph. I've driven for two weeks and 400 miles in stop/go traffic and have not experienced a single tranny shudder in the 55 or 65 mph spots, and I did have the shudder at least once a day at those speeds prior to this last TSB application.

    Within the first 5 miles of driving from the stealership after the TSB service and having reached **75 mph** (never happened at that speed before), the tranny shuddered a bit more emphatically than previously experienced. Once the transmission "learned" my driving style, it appears to have locked out the instability at 75 mph I experienced on that first drive away. I haven't seen any shuddering at any speed since then.

    Anyway, Farmer52, I'd recommend you listen very carefully to the combustion cycle of the engine in an attempt to qualify the "miss" as truly a periodic engine combustion problem. I'm willing to wager that the "miss" is a valve body actuation problem within the 545RFE that some of us with 02/06 builds have seen regularly. This goes for Michelle, as well--TSB 18-023-06 fixes the transmission shudder on my 02/06 CRD as far as I am able to ascertain.

    That leaves one final, original problem with my CRD which is addressed by TSB 05-004-06--the ginormous brake squall at cool temps due to poorly isolated rear brake pads. Until the temperature lowers in this area and I'm able to replicate it consistently, I won't return to the stealership for this final fix.

    Jones
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    Farout..... If the blue tec engine is going to be on the JC then where the owner are going to buy the blue liquid the it need to run with.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    zachinmi,
    I can assure you EGR problems are the most frequent issues people have with all high pressure diesels here. If it's not the EGR valve, it's the pump or injector pintles.
    We have both LSD (50ppm) and ULSD (10ppm) in France. Switzerland also has 5ppm ULSD.
    There is roughly a 5% loss in both the 5 and 50ppm fuels. The most expensive ULSD I bought this morning for 1.26 Euro/liter has additives up to 1 per thousand units in volume. It's the best fuel i've bought since two years and it gives me the same performance our old 350ppm fuel had.
  • 05crdjeep05crdjeep Member Posts: 59
    Can you make us all feel lucky and translate that cost per litre into USD per Gallon?
  • new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    Thanks Farout - we are singing from the same hymnal! ;o)
  • new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    In VA gas is $2.66 and diesel is $2.85 - it just keeps dropping!
  • geedubbgeedubb Member Posts: 34
    About $7.73/US gallon (at current EU-$ conversion). Most of which is probably tax. I'd be interested in knowing just how much of that is tax so we could compare apples to apples.

    Gary
    3.785L/US Gal
    1 EU = $1.62 (as of 8/16/2006)
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    tired old dave: My shifting changed drasticly, able to go into 5th at 52 and 5 lockup at 54mph. The fuel mileage went up rather suddenly, about 4,000 miles after the PCM replacement. The 26.1 mpg was achieved by just driving, and ignoring the tachometer. I did not floor it, but just normal driving for us and I had no idea we did so well. I did fill it to where it would not take a drop more, so we may have done a little better than 26.1 mpg. I don't have the overhead estimator, this was done the old fashion way by caculator......he he he.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    nescosmo: I was told by the Tec that when you come for an oil change they add the fluid. Which is pee of some sort, from what I can't tell ya, as I do not have the slightest idea. I am thinking it will be a dealer item for a good while.

    Farout
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    eebro - Thanks for the information. I hope it does not happen again but if it does I will try your suggestion. One thing I did notice was the RPMs decreased when it started to "miss". If it was trans shudder, I would think the engine RPMs would stay more consistant. When I experienced the "miss" the first time it felt like you shutoff the engine (no power).

    What did the engine RPMs do when you experienced the trans shudder?
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Thank you farout-it seems like you are now enjoying good diesel.
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    Must be nice. In western SD gas dropped yesterday from 3.159 to 3.099 but diesel stayed at 3.399 .
    With the winter cutover to home heating fuel I don't think I will be getting much of a break here.
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    Regular gasoline is $2.569 but Diesel is still $3.049 here in Canton, OH. The Diesel price has not changed in several weeks.

    Maybe BP should shutdown the Alaska pipeline. Since they announced the rust problem the price of gasoline is dropping. Perhaps it is costing too much to operate. :D

    I read that only 8% of the Alaska oil is being used in the US. Why isn't 100% being used here? :confuse:
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    tired old dave: Yes we seem to be on the honeymoon at last! We still keep a clear eye and a tuned ear just in case. But we are more relaxed, with cautious optimism.

    Farout
  • eebroeebro Member Posts: 80
    Farmer52,

    The tach fluttered forcing the needle lower and back at a high rate. It was as if the TC were trying to lock up but the TCM just couldn't secure all the sensory criteria.

    Jones
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