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I too enjoyed your response, and I can appreciate your frustration. I had a diesel Chevy pickup a few yrs ago with chronic A/C and 4wd problems....since I have to drive about 50 miles a day for work, having a vehicle in the shop all the time was very frustrating, so I understand your position. I must note, though, that I never had a single problem with the engine or trans in that truck, so problem free diesels do exist....most Powerstroke guys and nearly all Cummins guys would agree with that. For us, most of us have problems with the "adaptations" the DCX had to do to sell the CRD here, and obviously their testing wasn't thorough enough. I have been fortunate, though, that with 16k miles, I am still problem free. To be fair, though, some of the issues (like the horrible wind leaks around the doors), I have just ignored b/c I don't have time to go to the dealer....no $30k car should be this loud, but I've tolerated it. My parents have driven Chrysler products for nearly 25 yrs, and except with window problems on their 300M, found the cars to be incredibly reliable and trouble free. We drove all over the country in a Chrysler minivan, and it never let us down. It really seems that the dealership makes all the difference....DCX doesn't care, nor do most manufacturers....if the dealership values you as a customer, some will bend the rules to make you happy....if it was left up to DCX, we'd all be screwed. As for me, I love my CRD, but I'd be hesitant to buy a Grd Cherokee CRD b/c of the cost...it's hard enough to get to a break even point on our Libertys....imagine how long it could take on a $40k vehicle. If anybody buys one or drives one, please post....I'd like to know what you think.
Hang in there Farout, and enjoy the Green Beast while you've got it...Your efforts and research have been a great resource for many of us over the past months, and I think we've all appreciated the info and the humor!!!
Twocycle2
After my wife did CPR on me for a while I finally saw this was no dream. So we shall see.
farout
Your two wildly funny posts and the clever follow-ups by Steve and Tidester are as funny as it gets – almost therapeutic, in a way. The CRD may have problems, but the forum is alive and well.
Thanks, still laughing,
A snake without it's venom remains a snake
The forum should not only be used to collect venom. Like a snake, it could become constricting (understand suffocating) for those who expect a little bit of understanding to carry on beyond the financial threat and monopolistic position of certain dealerships; I'm thinking about Farout and those who cannot throw money out by the window.
By reading this forum I can perceive that DC is now imposing NA their same mercantilist attitude we've faced here during many years. The CRD is a bit more sophisticated, but not enough to accept every sacrifice.
Tell me it's cabin fever and we're all in need of some fresh air and sunshine!
tidester, host
Please have a look at 'our' recent CRD history:
- My posts 515 and 5500 were perhaps interpretated as being premature, but unfortunately describe post 8683 written by Farout
I have the "chance" of being a north american who returned to his ancestor's land as a young adult. I once paid coffee 5 cents a cup and now it's 1.5 Euro the half cup :sick:
It may not be trivial to appreciate the quality of the 'knowledge' we exchanged on this forum, plus numerous private mail exchanges initiated here.
This is simply human
If you complain and get rid of your own venom, you are momentarily psychologically weakened and your predators will feast. Stick to the discussion and you can foresee what the man with the gold tooth will try to do you :P
What I would like to ask of folks on this forum is, what if I don't do the F37? What does that do to the warranty. Is there a time limit on the recall? Any advice is appreciated :confuse: ?
Indeed!
tidester, host
So I just want to see what DCX will offer and then I will have a better idea where this will go. I sure don't want a HEMI or a gas eaten pig of any kind. So I think there are limited choices if I was to replace it.
I am amazed that DCX has really taken this situation serious, and I have made no threats of any kind. Time will tell.
farout
Last night on french tv (TF1) there was an announcement saying Daimler would separate (divorce) from Chrysler. Push hard to have your truck repaired before they do, or you may feel 'laid off'!
Apparently DC would be loosing money with Chrysler; it's funny, why did I mention "their mercantilist attitude" yesterday :confuse:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_33/b3947016_mz001.htm
DCX has made these flat faced front ends, that actually have a huge drag on air flow, costing more in fuel. Them if there is any way to cram in a HEMI into a vehicle DCX does it. Where is the thinking on this? Maybe Dr. Z can afford to drive a gas sucking hog, but most Americans live payday to payday. This says nothing about what we are doing to protect our earth.
Today I talked with a customer care rep. and they asked if we wanted a buy back? I said I felt we needed to know what options we have first. But they want to know which way to go. We would rather have everything fixed right! That and not having to go in every 2,000 miles for them to fix stuff. So the rep said to say buyback, and we have the option to have it fixed.
Here the news about DCX was on all the TV stations, and on the net, and papers as well. However DCX stock went up about $3.50 USD. So some see the split as good, I do at least.
If a Liberty sells here, for say, 28,000, USD, how much would that be in USD in France? Do you have rebates there as well? How long can you finance vehicles for in France? I am just wondering.
Farout
Here the Liberty CRD sells for 33,500 Euros. In USD this comes to ~42,000USD! Insurance is 1,200 Euros for those who have no penalty, no bonus. License you buy once for the life of the vehicle ~500 Euros. People usually pay 400 Euros per month without insurance for leasing the CRD. I've never calculated this way, it's just too expensive.
But the expensive fraction of the running costs is the cost of fuel and consumables. When you're a Mc-Guyver for the rest, it's ok :shades:
Farout
Nescosmo.
all kinds of problems. Couldn't get the PCM to take
the upgrade. Ordered new PCM..... Put in the PCM and still
problems. Replace ECM and this caused the PCM to lose it;s
memory. Ordered 2nd PCM for Monday. Will keep you
updated here in Calgary. You may just want to hold off
until they get a few more done. Service Rep says the
Canadian programming (pollution etc... I think) is different
than the US stuff and hence DC Tech Support is having troubles working the new changes in. Varsity is the dealer I'm using. Just a lot of water running today in Calgary.
If they split I must believe that Diamler will take at least one brand with them be it Jeep, Mercedes, Dodge, Maybach, or even a combination... I would imagine they could even take Crysler with them if they wanted.
Just my observation, that looking at the schedule that DCX has for engines to go into Jeep vehicles Jeep is going to stay with the "old 3.7 V-6 and the newer 4.0 V-6 for at least until 2010. We have a 06 Liberty with the 3.7 V-6 and its a pig on gasoline. The Wrangler went to a 3.8 V-6 I wonder why they don't put it into the Liberty?
If Jeep and other Jeep products don't change, as well as other vehicles made, we will become a slave to foreign oil, and may even become high dollar fuels like that of the European countries. I think fuel should be priced by the cubic inches a engine and the actual,real world mpg. The most asinine, outrageous idea was to make huge cubic inch engines, like the HEMI and others who make these gas sucking wasting engines, when we need to conserve our fuel, is putting the burden on future generations. To allow those who like to hear the rumble and feel the huge power these engines produce and waste our fuel should pay more per gallon based on HP. Having a vehicle that is just for impressing others, with 500 hp is a corruption of the trust that has been given to us, to care for the earth. I personally feel idea of just having huge powerful engines is a perversion in thinking about energy, and a miscarriage of trust of those who make these "fun to drive Vehicles".
If Americans think $3.00 a gallon is expensive, just wait to see what hydrogen will cost.
Farout
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0-5-7145-1-717333-1-0-0-0-0-0-11979-0-0-0-0- -0-0-0-0.html
If GM had gotten hold of Chrysler, they would have killed it and any hope for diesel powered vehicles.
DCX called today (a holiday at that) and said they will buy our CRD back, replace it with a new 2005 or 2006 if they can find one that's unsold. Or if we so choose we can select a DCX product with an allowance, or just buy it back. The exact details will be told to us by a Local rep soon. We are really unsure just what to do. They will fix it but, they would rather replaceit. As to the charge we would owe he said he felt it might be no mileage charge, Wow>>>
farout
There is still one "enormously frightening issue" not developed in this interesting link:
When Hydrogen catches fire at low pressure (due to a leak on a connection), you cannot hear the gas making the typical 'hissing' sound and Hydrogen fire is practically invisible to the human eye. When you look for such a fire, you will detect a blurred vision of the scene that's behind it.
What happens then?
People were severely burnt in the early days of experimentation with Hydrogen. They discovered they had to walk holding a broom in front of them to detect hydrogen fire!
I wondered why a few old experimental halls had brooms and fire extinguishing blankets rolled in stationary vertical dispensers for emergency use: the answer is Hydrogen :sick:
Do you really want that?
http://nasaexplorer.org/show2_k_4a.php?id=01-029&gl=k4
A granulated or powderlike form of an adsorbing material has a lot of surface area available to store H2. Such a system virtually eliminates the possibility of leakage or explosion. I saw a demo (video) back in the 80's of such a vessel being tested by firing bullets through it. Nothing happened!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
BUT, I now have my check engine light on since yesterday. I am guessing EGR valve but I don't know. It drives fine apart from that scary orange light. I also had this light on a few weeks ago but it went off after several trips on the freeway. Guess my CRD is going back to the dealer... AGAIN....
So when is DCX going to buy-back our CRDs so we can buy something less troublesome?
(BTW, I have been on a four month hiatus from this board due to computer issues and a move)
Your knowledge on current Hydrogen technology is what I understand too. There are bugs to be worked out of the adsorbtive technology- to be sure, but that is the promising track of things.
Just as the future cars in the mid fifties thought we would have "Jet powered auto's" and as you see, we have lots of them now. I doubt hydrogen will become a fuel for the average driver in the next 20 years. Maybe the E-85 might really become a fuel that will be a fuel to fill the gap until a better engine or fuel is developed.
How about the fuel developed in "Back to the Future". The Flux Capacitor just might save the day?
Way Farout
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061209083951.htm
With our diesel engines we will always be able to mix basic substances to replace normal fuel. In case of shortage, then cetane boosting will become vital. Did you know that in the EU luxury cars currently have their airbags stripped to pieces and their firing explosives stolen? I wonder what some folks are up to :confuse:
The flux capacitor stored energy, plutonium was the source.
I keep checking ebay for that "Mr. Fusion" unit!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Re: airbags - yes, I was aware of that. Unfortunately, there are way too many crazies out there.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
http://www.iter.gouv.fr/index.php?rubr=3
To add to this two step dance, because we have not serviced our Liberty's differentials every 12,000 miles our warranty on these may not be warranted by DCX. (special fluid change price is $ 282. + tax, that is horrid. Because of the special fluids that DCX uses it does not last as long. I find this rather hard to swallow. What do you think or have heard? The service manager said most of the CRD's they have sold are having some problems now.
However Yark Jeep in Toledo, Ohio said they have sold a lot of CRD's and only a few have had an EGR problem, and that's about it.
We are unsure just what do do. The dealer has a small inventory of vehicles and there isn't much I would want to replace it with. We will not dive into this, we are leaving all options open for now.
Any suggestions????
Farout
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Has anyone here had similar experiences?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
If I were in your shoes, I would accept the buyback...even if they charge you .10 a mile, that is only $2900, and if they will buy it back at sticker minus $2900, that is a great deal compared to the depreciation hit you'd take trading it in later. As cars age, the problems usually increase...considering the issues you've had so far, I'd take this opportunity while it's available. As I've stated before, I've had no problems with mine to speak of so far, but if I'd been through what you've been through, I'd take the opportunity to unload it in a heartbeat. If you like the Liberty, consider getting another gas one....or, the new Dodge Nitro (built on the same platform), is a great looking vehicle and a little bigger too...at least you'd be driving something that should be more reliable. Just my two cents....
Best of luck to you, and please keep us posted....more of us may be in your shoes someday.
Twocycle2
As far as i know the problem that you are getting is mainly body issue, the engine, tranny and else is not giving you that much of a problem we all have the normal issue with the CRD. If i were you i will get another CRD with less mileage and with all the issue work out. After all you have been very happy with it.
Nescosmo.
Do you think you could get some weather stripping of some sort and see if this will help reduce the noise? My Feb. 06 model makes a little more noise than it should at highway speeds and blows hard in a strong crosswind.
What are your unresolved problems? My only unresovled problem is the sunroof leaks water into the cargo area when my jeep is parked pointing uphill in the rain.
Farout:
In response to this I have suggestion. How close are you to a military base? If I remember right. About every base has an Auto Crafts shop that Military and Retired can use. I have looked into Amsoil as have added a trailer hookups to the jeep. By looking At the scheduled maintenance the book has schedule A and B. In my book it don't mention a single word on changing the differential oil, but because I do tow a trailer the book seems to go into panic mode and wants me to change it too much. I am going to replace it with an amsoil lube gear oil on my next service. The gear oil is good for at least 50,000 miles. What I gather if any product fails due to oil they cover it under some warrantee or product liability as long as you take an oil sample. Change the oil yourself with the specified lube on post and drive it.....by then.......................................................... Who knows, I bet you don't want to let the jeep go yet.
farout
I don't know you, but have followed your problems for some time now on this forum. My advice (and you know what they say about advice:"everybodys got it, like an ahole" is that you get your $$ from DC and walk away from the car. Clearly, whether your really "like" the CRD or not it is not giving you good service and you should take the $$ and run. It seems they are giving you a "fair" deal and that is about all anyone could hope for.
It is clearly not worth all the angst to keep the CRD. As one of my good friends says: "life is too short to dance with the ugly girls". So, chalk it up to experience and get something else.
If differential maintenance is your unknown source of problems, you can always put a "button" temperature logger against the rear banjo and evaluate how hot you run and how long. Do you really think Dana transmission elements need more care when used on a Jeep?
Are you sure these are Dana differenentials? Is there a drain plug for these or do you have to remove the plate? The front holds 1.3 L and the back 1.7 L. The dealer said that ONLY Mopar should be used, which I am not is the only brand that is good. What do you use?
I have brought to the service managers attention that the gas engine on schedule B does not ever state that you MUST change the fluid unless it's used as the points listed with crosse's stacked on each other. None of the things listed do we experience. So they are checking as to why is the deisel different than the gas requirements? I was told they would find out as this is a good question.
The buy back will be effected by this problem so I am told. My wife said if that is the case what good is a Service Contract? We are supposed to hear on Friday waht all this means and if we will accept the buy back, it's still our choice at this point. Time will tell.
Farout