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Comments
Bookitty
Obviously the engineers at Chrysler need to come up with a solution.
Jeep Selec-Trac xfer case has 4WD Lo, 4WD(open diff-fulltime), 4WD(locked diff-parttime), AND
a 2WD position. Why couldn't Dodge have used this
xfer case in the Dakotas? It's available in the Jeeps with the 4.7L V8.
I wasn't aware that Jeep offered a 2wd and a 4wd open position, I guess in Dakota DC wanted to offer a full time 4wd option - perhaps consumers aren't seeing enough difference between the standard part time option and the selec-trac to make it viable. I know that I am cynical, but I really believe that a lot of these systems are unnecessary gimmicks.
part-time 4WD and the limited-slip rear end.
I can understand full time 4wd in two situations:
firstly if you have manual hubs and locking them is a real pain in the middle of a journey - then 4wd open is better than 2wd, though I'm not sure this combination exists in any present day car or truck.
secondly in quirky weather where black ice etc occurs without warning. Now this isn't a big deal to me - if I'm not sure what the road conditions are like then I shift to 4wd for potentially risky situations - bends, bridges, hills etc. If you would rather pay the extra purchase and maintenance costs of full time 4wd to avoid having to think about shidting then so be it - it just doesn't make sense to me.
Limited slip diff on the other hand is a must have as far as I'm concerned. I know some people feel that if you have 4wd it isn't so necessary and I can understand that point to some degree, but for the kind of driving I do I wouldn't even consider not having it, and already this year, even in 4wd and on road, it has kicked in a few times to make life easier.
-Curt
Sport Package (40/20/40 bench, Aluminum Wheels).
Tire & Handling Group.
Cruise Control & Tilt Wheel.
3.55 Axle Ratio.
Anti-Spin (Limited Slip) Differential.
3.9L Engine.
Air Conditioning.
22 Gallon Fuel Tank.
Sliding glass window.
Also included is a new Glasstite Targa topper and Bedrug carpet bed liner. The Glasstite is the best topper available and with the bedrug cost over $2000. This is a very attractive and functional setup. At first glance, it looks like a Durango.
This is an exceptional truck. I checked out all the competitors, including Toyota Tocoma and Nissan, nothing comes close. The V6 has plenty of pep - I find myself spinning the rear wheels without tyring. I'm only selling to get out of the payments. Have a family and didn't really need a truck. It is in new condition, no scratches or dents. Has never been through an automatic car wash.
Price: $13,500 (Invoice price is well over $15,000 and you get the $2000 topper for nothing). Fly in, drive home and save thousands in purchase price and taxes!
Contact: markd@inebraska.com
This type of system is actually WORSE than
2WD with LSD.
Without getting into specifics, FULL-TIME 4WD (AS Defined on a Dodge Dakota) is just an added OPEN DIFFERENTIAL to the xfer case. This means that if ANY of the 4 wheels are on a slippery surface, it will spin (AND YOU ARE STUCK) One ends up putting it into 4WD lock anyway at this point!
I have a LOT of experience with this type of system. (My first vehicle contained such) One of the FRONT WHEELS is always the first to 'slip' and you immediately loose all steering control.
Additionally, since the FRONT driveshaft is always turning too... there is a lot more to wear out. (Three "double-cardian" yolks on the front driveshaft replaced within the 1st 60K miles)
I even began to REMOVE the front driveshaft during the summer months and put the xfer case in 4WD lock. (Essentially turning it into a normal Rear Wheel Drive) to reduce wear-n-tear.
I hope Dodge does the right thing quickly as I do plan to purchase if they do.
Of course, if one were to drive over an hour at each start-up of the engine, the worst of the moisture would be likely consumed by the PCV system as designed. (The oil-water emulsion is a consequential problem)
I do not think ANY of us has the time/money to run the engine that long EACH time we fire it up. Besides, there are a number of reasons we see this condensation.
I have said from the very start (Ref forum#1318 00 Dakota 4.7l) that this moisture is a normal byproduct of combustion (Basic chemistry again) and ALL internal combustion engines produce it. Unfortunately, in this particular engine it accumulates/condenses in the oil-fill-tube under certain conditions. Anyone who has removed the valve-covers from any engine running dinosour-oil has seen this sludge.
This is one advantage of synthetic oils.... it does not emulsify with water nearly as well as dino-oil.
This condensation is a CONCERN not a PROBLEM!!
Thanks for all the info on it. I plan on putting at least 200K miles on this truck, and I will do everything I can to keep the engine in top shape.
(andy_jordan) - Keep up the comments, I have been reading these sites for 4 months now, and I respect your input.
Wish me luck, I'm ordering my 2wd SLT Quad 4.7 5spd 3.55 lsd next week. As of last week none of my options were on restriction. So I'm targeting late March. At 94 miles a day, I'm waiting for the worst of Michigan's messy roads to dry up. I'm not worried about the snow, it's the salt. I couldn't stand to drive my new truck and get it dirty before I reach the end of my driveway :-(
(That INCLUDES using the factory block heater at night) As I write this, my outdoor thermometer reads -10F and I expect it to get colder by morning.... Burrrr
Do not get me started on ROAD-SALT...(A euphemistic term for the various sodium/calcium/urea mixtures they spread on the roads. )
I know just how you feel about driving on salt-coverd roads, My Peralesecent Blue 2000 Dakota is WHITE with road salt. Any attempt to wash it in these temperatures just loosens the bond between the paint and the base metal. The paint would begin to fall off in a few years. (Differences in expansion/contraction between paint/metal)
I need the paint to hold the body together for when the road-salt begins to disintegrate the metal ;-)
An ol saying in Vermont speaks of not washing your car for fear of leaving holes in the body behind. (Do not wash off the rust, It may not pass inspection with holes in it;-) I have ridden in many 'Flintstone-mobiles' over the years here in Vt. Isn't that what rubber mats were made to cover up?
bpeebles - I too drive over an hour to work in my truck, but hopefully not for much longer. I also understand the salt issue - I feel like crying every time I see my truck right now.
Can I infer from your post regarding foaming, that one of the advantages of synthetic oil will be to reduce this foaming. I plan to switch to Mobil 1 at the next change anyway.
To anyone in Canada - anyone know where I can get a decent oil filter for my Dakota - I can get the Mobil 1 at WalMart but only AC Delco filters, and Crappy Tire is, well, Crappy Tire. The ones near us are also tiny with very limited range of stock.
I do have experience with MOBIL1 since it was introduced in 1976-1977 timeframe. It makes cold starts much more friendly to the mechanical workings of an internal combustion engine. I can also say that I have pulled valve cover from engines that have run only MOBIL1 since break-in. I could see my reflection on the underside of the valve-cover. (ABSOLUTELY NO SLUDGE) This is unheard of with dyno-oils.
Only real-time trials of synth-oil in the DC 4.7L will bear out the value in this situation. I suspect it will not reduce the condensation but it may reduce the so-called 'foam' (oil/water emulsion)
I cannot help with where you can get an oil filter for your DAK. The books may not even be updated for the 4.7L yet. (I would try looking up the 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee that used the same engine last year.) If you have not yet reviewed the following URL, you may be interested.
http://minimopar.simplenet.com/oilfilters.html
So, I'm seriously looking at the Dakota Quad. My question, aside from this wierd foaming issue (has anyone checked if the same problem has been flagged on the '99 Jeep Grand with the same engine?) is gas mileage and the shortbed. Anyone with a 4x4 4.7 V8 out there - what are you getting mpg city vs. highway after having driven broken in the truck? And has anyone used this bed extender? Does it bounce around off-road and does it secure cargo when extended? Finally, my girlfriend found the bucket seats on the Jeep Grand Cherokee uncomfortable - has anyone gotten the buckets on the dakota quad? How does they feel on long drives vs. the bench? thanks in advance! Keep up the great posts!
asta, my 4x4 4.7 experience is with a club not a quad so bear that in mind. I love the performance of the V8, which rear end did you test drive - the 3.92 (which I have) will be quicker off the line than the stock 3.55. I also drive the standard which I am sure is going to give better performance than the auto - don't forget that the hp curve peaks over 4000 rpm.
My truck has around 7000km (4,400 miles) and I am getting between 16.5 and 18 mpg depending on city / highway mix and 4x4 usage. Bear in mind though that I live in rural Ontario, so city is a relative term.
I am not going to comment on the Tundra, my views and those of others are well and colorfully covered on other topics. I obviously can't comment on the quad bed.
I have the bucket seats and find them very comfortable over prolonged drives - I'm not sure if they are the same as in the Grand Cherokee. I know some people have found the lumbar support to be a little too much. My wife has had back problems in the past and she also finds them comfortable. I guess it really comes down to personal preference, if you can take an extended test drive in both you should get a better idea of what suits your situation.
Say, I have a dakota cc, 4x4 with a 4.7 manual. Something is happening that seems a little odd. When I am taveling at highway speeds for awhile and then push in the clutch to coast, the engine seems to bounce up and down from 500rpm to 1100 rpm 3 or 4 times.
Just wondering if anyone has had the same experience and/or if you have had this checked out.?
I live in Wisconsin where the weather can be a little cold...if that may have anything to do with it.
I look forward to your responses...
BK.
I am guessing here, but I believe that it may be to do with the engine management. The 4.7 does not have a throttle cable - throttle management is fly by wire. All you are doing by stomping on the gas pedal is giving an instruction to the computer to accelerate. Now if we extend that logic further it makes sense that the computer will control engine speed if the clutch is depressed whilst the truck is moving because logic says that the engine will soon be re-engaged, probably in a different gear. By idling in that situation at higher revs there is a smaller rev adjustment when the gear is engaged, and hence less wear and tear.
As I say I have no proof to back this thought up, but the logic makes sense, at least to me.
Thanks, BK
good luck and i hope you enjoy yours as much as i have enjoyed mine.
robert
(i now have 4500 miles in just over a month)
Actually, I realized that I forgot to mention that the truck does have an automatic trani so I went back to the computer to enter this and I pleasantly found your helpful reply! Thanks!
It does indeed have the heavy duty cooling pkg. I have had my truck for 2 days and I absolutely love it!
Thanks again!
I have even lodged a 'complaint' with my dealer (They found nothing wrong!) and have experimented with it myself. I have found that if I disengauge the clutch and 'coast' down a long (1 or 2 miles @ 40-50 MPH) hill, the Idle speed will eventually settle-in to around 1K RPM. (BTW that equates to ~40MPH in 5th gear)I have also scrutinized the shop manual for possible explanations.
According to the book we have the following;
1)The electronic idle control is constantly
'learning' how to idle.(This compensates for weather and road conditions)
2)There is no 'clutch depressed' signal to the computer.(This is the VERY FIRST TIME this engine has ever been available with a manual xmission)
3)The ground-speed signal DOES go to the computer.
My theory is this...
The computer 'learns' how to idle while decelerating with the clutch engaged. (AND ground speed >0.0 MPH)
When we present very different conditions to the computer by depressing the clutch while coasting. The computer is 'confused' for a while because it did not have to open the throttle at all when the clutch was engaged.
Thus... the idle speed drops very low (lights dim)
and then shoots up... over and over until the learning process catches up again.
If it were my design... I would add a 'clutch depressed' signal to the engine computer, this would add a very important variable to the decision-making process within the computer.
At first I thought I was the problem by way of my 'clutching' but I am now convinced otherwise.
As soon as the vehicle is moving and I push the clutch... the idle drops very low for a moment and if I happen to be 'feathering' the clutch... It stalls due to lack of torque at that very low idle speed.
I have changed my driving-habits due to this 'problem' and now tend to rev the engine much more than I would like during slow maneuvers.
(Before anyone asks...I have been using a clutch for over 20 years and NEVER had to do this before.)
bpeebles, makes a lot of sense - you have the shop manual so I defer. I too have had the stall problem when feathering the clutch - especially when close maneuvering - say reversing into a tight parking space. I want to keep my revs low because of the slippery conditions here at the moment. I have noticed an improvement so I guess the computer is 'learning' my driving style. I have driven standards all my driving life, including a small amount of road racing, and am fairly confident I know how to practice good clutch control.
Towing with the 3.55. Sure the 3.92 would have been able to tow more, but I wouldn't worry too much with a 4000lb boat. That equates to about a 23' cuddy loaded with gas, water and equipment - may be a little higher with the trailer. Even so you should be under the 4,800 limit. As a general rule I try and use no more than 80% of towing capacity on a regular basis, but I think that is overkill. You will still be under the limit - which I am sure is lower than the real limit to ensure DC's rear end is covered. You will notice sluggish performance off the line, but is that a big deal? I would only be nervous with your set up if I had the boat behind me 90%+ of the time.
Regards,
Bk
Glad your truck came. I ordered a 4x4 Quad on 11/23 and I'm still waiting.
The wife just emailed me. She said she was shoveling up the driveway better before I got home last night, and she noticed the spots in the snow too. She said they were more of a yellow? and they came from the rear axle area. Thanks for the responses!
Andy: I'm taking it in tomorrow at 7:30am for a look see. Your're right -- better safe than sorry. I'll have to get my beauty sleep some other time.
Andy: I'm taking it in tomorrow at 7:30am for a look see. Your're right -- better safe than sorry. I'll have to get my beauty sleep some other time.
The logic behind this is that the compressor runs whenever the air conditioner is on (obviously) and whenever air is being directed towards the windscreen, (dehumidifier function).
Off the following modes:
heat - floor only
heat - vent only
On the following modes:
heat - floor/defrost
heat - defrost only
A/C - Max
A/C - floor/vent
A/C - vent only
I use the term "heat" only to differentiate between A/C on and A/C off since even in "heat" mode, the temperature dial can be turned to the coolest setting and be blowing fresh unheated outside air. I suppose I should have used the term "non-A/C mode" rather than heat, but you get the idea.
Chad
How is the multi-speed trany record for 2 wheel drive (I heard problems only with 4x4 transfer cases)? If the multi-speed proves to be strong I will be 100% happy. My current truck is the first vehicle that never developed any squeeks or rattles...and that sold me....now if Dodge would just consentrate on drive trains...they might just beat a Toyota.
What about gas milage for the 4.7 auto. My 3.9 get 17 MPG Period!!
Can't wait to hear that V8!!
Maybe I'm better off since lsd seems to be on restriction right now.
Chris
If you are considering the brand new 4SP automatic. You should be interested in reading up on the Jeep Grand Cherokee that had this combination last year (1999 model year). There have been many concerns about the 4SP auto. brought up in the JGC forums. Some of the problems were 'programmed out' of the xmissions by updating the shift algorithm within the xmission computer. (These problems have been coming back after awhile)