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Subaru XT Turbo Forester
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Comments
You'll be the first person here with an 05 FXT!
Congrats!
Ken
-Brian
JP
I will be very careful about break-in, believe me.
Ed
Are both of your cars MT? Your comparisons are very interesting, though I'm not cross shopping the Legacy (looked at the OBXT, but too expensive here).
Agree, the differences in performance are academic in the real world, I just though it was funny that Subaru under-reported the hp and torque figs for the FXT, but then gave it the same "250 hp" engine and geared it to outdrag their flagship sporting models (STi aside).
In Canada, the jump to the base GT from the base FXT is $1500, but you also get a moonroof and a better stereo in the Forester. I also like the Forester size better
JP
Quick update: The car is ready but for the spoiler. Not sure if the dealer gets that and paints it themselves (nervous about that) or if they order them already painted. A small chance for Saturday delivery but most likely it'll be Tuesday or Wednesday.
My wife had her Honda dealer paint and install the spoiler on her '91 Accord before delivery and it looked fine - better actually than the OEM paint, now that I think about it.
I suppose I could drive by and look at it for a while...
Ed
That would be torture! :-) Just ask the dealer if they paint it.
[edit] from subaruparts.com:
2004 > Forester > Appearance
Rear Spoiler
Color matched rear deck spoiler. Adds the sporty touch to the Forester. Kit includes hardware and recomended instructions for installation.
-Dennis
Re Ed's spoiler, I interpret "Color matched" to mean that it comes painted from the factory.
-Frank
I hope you're right about the prepainted spoiler. I have seen work from this dealer's body shop and it looks good; still I'd prefer something from the factory spray booth, already cured and ready for a fresh coat of wax.
I got a phone call from a good college friend from Atlanta (Marietta, specifically) a few days ago, and I got really nostalgic for the days when I lived in Athens and Decatur.
Ed
I wonder if I were in my FXT instead, if the higher clearance would let the truck tire just slide underneath without damaging anything.
Unrelated subject - any thoughts on ceramic brake pads for the Forester? Just had all four brakes on my GS4 done with ceramics. So far, I am very impressed, and considering doing the same when the FXT needs brakes. There is absolutely no fade, they stop very well, and there's minimal brake dust - much less than from metallics. Don't know about longevity - the original metallics lasted 40K miles.
My observations after one year of ownership:
Pros:
- Very good / smooth engine power.
- Excellent transmission.
- Well matched gearing - the low first gear eliminates the need for low range when driving off road, and the engine is responsive in other gears as well.
- Excellent steering feel - not too loose, not too tight.
- Very good brakes, the brake assist is a very nice feature.
- Very reliable, no mechanical problems except one Hill-Holder adjustment.
- Hill Holder comes in handy on big hills.
- Comfortable seats.
- Excellent utility and cargo capacity.
- Lots of handy storage bins everywhere.
- Good stock radio.
- Nice ergonomic placement of controls.
- Great seat heaters.
- Useful mirror and wiper heaters.
- Great traction in the snow and rain.
- Excellent visibility all around.
- Nice compact exterior dimensions, very easy to maneuver and park in tight spots.
- Very good headlights / foglights.
- Decent stock tires, so far showing no visible wear.
- So far, not a single sqeak or rattle.
Cons:
- Seatbelts - horrible! WAAAAAY too tight and lock up very often, to the point of being dangerous. I have an ongoing case with SOA on this.
- Climate control - can't keep the temp even close to the desired setting. I was able to figure out a fix for this myself.
- Noise - this car is NOISY on the highway / rough road surface.
- Gauges are almost invisible during the day with sunglasses on - need to get rid of the silly red needles!
- The stock battery is very cheap and does not handle cold weather starts very well.
- An INTEGRATED Turbo gauge and trip computer should be standard on this model for the price.
Nitpicks / Improvement Opportunities:
- Gas mileage is only average for the class. Mine has been in the 21-22 range in a mix of driving. Lowest 19.8, highest 24.8.
- No AUX input on the radio. No XM option. I find the weather band completely useless.
- Electronic throttle is too sensitive and non-linear.
- The clutch could be made lighter - becomes tiresome in traffic.
- The big air brake (scoop) on the hood takes away from appearance and gas mileage. Intercooler should be mounted low in front of the radiator.
- Steering ratio is too slow, need less turns lock to lock.
- Armrests on the doors are starting to show some wear.
- A NAV system would be a great option to have.
Summary:
Definitely more Pros than Cons, but the few Cons do make for a frustrating driving experience. Overall, a good car that could become a GREAT one with only minor improvements / revisions.
Bob
I finally figured out today why some people complain about the gauges sometimes being almost invisible when wearing sunglasses. After picking up my Forester from routine maintenance, I started down the road and noticed that I could hardly see the gauges and it took me a sec to figure out that the mech had turned the headlights off. For safety purposes, I leave my lights on all the time and therefore the instrument cluster is lit during the day, thus making the gauges easy to read. I do agree though that you shouldn't have to do that just to see the gauges during the daytime.
-Frank
So far (KIW***) at 5K, I have struggled with the unreadable radio faceplate when wearing sunglasses but HAL has been compliant, the seatbelt retractors havent been a problem and the interior in the PP is more than quiet enough for a SUV...and my other car is an Audi A6, so I know quiet! The upgraded audio in the PP seems to have a non-linear equalization as you increase volume, but, again, I'm used to the Bose system in the Audi...you get what you pay for.
Mark
I love to drive, and the prospect of turbo performance is enticing. I also would plan to keep the car for a long time, and I wonder what the turbo would do to projected engine wear and maintenance.
Any thoughts?
Since I have the Subaru credit card and use SubaruBucks, the maintenance so far has cost me Zero.
BUT I will say that the turbo will cost me about $165 more every 60K miles when it's time to change the spark plugs. I could change the plugs on my normally aspirated Forester but cannot get at the plugs for the Turbo. The additional cost of Platinum plugs is a wash since Platinums last longer than copper or whatever else. The gas costs me more too - about $300 more per year for me in CA than a normally aspirated Forester engine (taking mileage and premium gas costs into consideration).
So that will add up to about $1,400 more every five years in gas and maintenance for ME personally. I decided before I bought the XT that the extra $0.75 per day was worth it! :-) I still agree.
Remember that this is the same engine as the STi, but the turbo pressure and tuning are set to be much less demanding. I have no concerns w.r.t. the longevity of my WRX turbo, and that is tuned more to the limit than the toned down FXT.
More to follow as I get seat time.
Ed
Yes, Frank is correct; it was prepainted.
Ed
Road noise worse than a CR-V? I doubt that. While the 4.44 final drive is short, the 5 speed CR-V has a 4.77 final drive, so it revs even higher at any given speed, and IMO insulation isn't as good as the Forester.
The automatic CR-V is geared taller, so it might be more quiet. But definitely not the 5 speed CR-V.
C&D's Forester XS was 3 decibels quieter than the CR-V at 70mph. I'm not sure if the XT is louder than the XS, but my guess is if it is, it's not by that much. The turbo actually mellows the engine a bit.
Russia is getting the 2.5T? Color me surprised, I owe you a beer if you ever come to Washington. It's cool that other markets are getting two turbo options, I'm jealous!
Extended warranty? I got one, FWIW, and one nice bonus is the roadside assistance. 7 years of AAA would have cost me $497, that paid for half the entire warranty right there. Add in better resale and I might break even, and that's even before I make a single claim.
-juice
Bob
Turbos - standard on a lot of cars now, inc many VWs, Audi, Volvo and all diesels - no specific concerns on durability, esp when you consider Subaru's experience with turbocharging, the detuned STi in the FXT and our speed limits in relation to what this car can do. I'm going to keep my FXT till it dies of old age.
Juice - bet the XT is quieter at any given road speed than the XS as it's not working as hard, the only extra "noise" is the turbo spooling up, if that bothers you, you shouldn't have bought this car in the first place.
JP
Is the XT overpriced? IMHO, no way.
When you see that it can outrun a Porsche Cayenne S you might say the Porsche is overpriced.
Is it priced high, though, for its class. That's because it offers more. You get more than what you pay for.
A "loaded" CR-V is not loaded. You don't get fog lights, no roof rack cross bars, no protective cladding. 3/36 warranty is the shortest in the industry. No roadside assistance at all, not even for a year. No heated seats. No heated mirrors. No front wiper de-icer. No rear wiper de-icer. About half the torque, at least it feels that way. Tiny moonroof about 1/4 the size of Subaru's. Toy-like 15" rims with rather lame S-rated tires (I owned an identical set). 3 channel ABS, vs. Subaru's more sophisticated 4. No head protection from your air bags at all.
So a CR-V EX is sort of stripped compared to an F-XT PP.
Seriously, add up what you think the value of each of those things is, and what you end up with is...well, maybe the Acura RDX, which will be based on the CR-V, and might come with about half of those things, and of course a much higher price.
Comparing the price of an XT from a year ago has no real meaning, you have to look at XT prices today. I've seen them dip to $21.8k, about what the CR-V EX runs, that wasn't a PP but give up the moonroof and that's about it, and you get those dozen features I mentioned for free.
And before you jump and say Honda has better resale, I just looked and the KKB private party for a Good condition 60k miles '98 Forester L is $8600 or so, while a similar CR-V LX is $8020.
So buy that bargain left over 2004 XT for $21,800, I'm sure you'll enjoy a grand or two more in resale value vs. a CR-V EX, and the turbo performance to boot.
-juice
So who's next off the fence!?
Ken
j/k (ducks and runs)
Congrats Ed!
DaveM
--Parigi
Your second assignment is to test HAL. How long does it take for the cabin temp. to regulate?
-Dennis
miamixt Apr 30, 2004 4:04am
in the archives of this forum, indicating that the Turbo carries a $250 one-time surcharge on Subaru's extended service contract.
To me, that implies that the actuaries have calculated the net present value of the marginal, average projected maintenance attributable to the Turbo option over the course of 80-100K miles is no more than $250.
That seems to be no more than a moderate risk.
Extra cost for XT: $2000
Extra gas per year for XT: $300
Extra cost for warranty: $250
Outrunning a 300C, GTO, 350Z, Porsche Cayenne S, and Honda S2000: priceless!
-juice
Your second assignment is to test HAL. How long does it take for the cabin temp. to regulate?
I drove the car home last night in a deluge, so I can't tackle assignment one. I can answer assignment two, however. The HAL climate control in full auto gradually brought the cabin temp down to the preset temp (approx. 71 F based on eyeballing - hard to say with all the gradations b/n 65 and 75) in about 10 minutes. I imagine it helped that the thunderstorm caused outside temps to drop from 87 F to 73 F during the same time span.
Ed
Unless I'm missing something no current Forester model features VDC, so methinks this will be either a running change on the '05 XT or something to be had in '06 (grr...).
Ed
I wonder, because they have not put VDC on any AWD besides VTD.
Uh-oh, does that mean it'll get VTD as well? And a 5 speed auto with Sportshift, and 50 extra horses, and it'll run on tap water and spew gold coins from the exhaust. ;-)
You can expect continuous improvement, but I think your '05 hit a sweet spot on price and performance, not to mention a small boost in efficiency. Don't worry, be happy!
-juice
Makes me think of "The New Kid," a new Old 97s song that's getting lots of airplay here. There will always be something new and improved down the line. Daddy just wanted a shot of fun with his practicality here and now. :-)
Ed
Interesting to see the mention of VDC. I wonder if the manual is used in markets other than the US.
Like juice pointed out, in order for VDC to happen, they need to implement VTD first!
Ken
-juice
Bob
The switch is at the top of the steering column.
-juice
Don't forget the Subie chat tonight - link is on the left.
Steve, Host
http://www.car-videos.com/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=0&Spee- d2=60
Shows the F-XT beating out the
Ford Mustang Mach1, Nissan 350Z, Porsche Boxter, Chevy Camaro z28, 2002 WRX, etc etc etc... and only 0.3 seconds behind the Evo. :-)
Elissa
Wow, my jaw almost dropped but Fitz now has an XT for $21,264! Mama-mia, I wish I was shopping right now.
Funny thing is I finally found no-haggle prices posted for Honda, Brownscar.com has a CR-V EX for $21.5k, though it's an auto and those come with a moonroof. Still, you give up a lot more than you gain and it costs more.
If you are bargain hunting grab an '04 quick before they all disappear.
Saw an '04 WRX wagon for $19,660, thought it was a typo! First time I've seen any WRX dip below $20 grand.
'04 XT with auto and PP for $23,274.
Like I said, if you're bargain hunting go *now*.
-juice