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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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  • I posted before but failed to mention the square light was on the driver's side in the rear. I have also seen pictures without this light and was wondering if it would be included with the 2005 Outback

    Thanks,

    Jeff
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    The backup lights? They are on the rear door panel - rectangular in shape - one on each side below the rear window - clear lenses - separate from the tail lights.

    Wonder if the turn signal lights in the mirror make it to the US - hope so...

    Ralph
  • markjennmarkjenn Posts: 1,142
    I suspect Subaru is EXTREMELY happy with having Lance as their spokesperson. His unbelievable performance in the Tour de France this year sold a lot of Subarus with every turn of the pedals.

    Mfgs love it when they sign up a sports figure who someone manages to keep winning while maintaining a squeaky-clean image. Lance has come through big-time on both counts and he is a perfect dovetail to Subaru's image as a utility car with an edge. I suspect Subaru couldn't be happier.

    - Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Subaru just had a record July for sales, previous best was 1987. So don't expect a radical change in direction from what they are going now, i.e. best ever sales with the STi halo car, XT and WRX for performance.

    Would you change strategies, or just expand the current strategy to include performance Legacys?

    -juice
  • Expand strategy to bring new people into the club AND retain current members. A change would exchange some current members for new ones with a net zero gain.

    Wallpaper of basic OB at Frankfurt elicited the following from a co-worker... "Is that what you're thinking of buying?" "What is that? ..about $40K?" Yes, Let's hope not (closer to low 20s), It's the next gen. of the Subaru Outback. "Wow, doesn't look much like the current ones."

    Summer '04 seems so far away.
  • SoA is already getting great marketing out of Lance Armstrong on a dirt bike for the current Outback, and I suspect that image reinforces the message they are trying to get out with the LL Bean collaboration ( do you know how many LL Bean catalogs get mailed out each year?) and the partnerships with ACA and IMBA. Thus, nobody probably stops to think, " Why is Lance Armstrong on a dirt bike?"
        The new Legacy GT will be a much better match to the Lance Armstrong persona: lean, high-revving ,tremendous speed, esp. in the mountains,great handling, absolutely unmatched durability. You can count on SoA marketing folks to figure out how to sell a bunch of cars with that image.

    Mark
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Posts: 122
    What appears as a square light on the back of the 2005 Outback appears only in that one photo. If you look very closely, you will see that the vehicle has had some masking done to hide some of the styling details of the new model.
    In reality, the tail lamp assembly sweeps from the rear toward the front. What looks like a separate square light, is actually part of a single wraparound lens, that has some of the lens masked off.

    -Jim
  • I know this is a pipe dream but has anyone heard about a turbo diesel version manufactured by isuzu for the subaru outback/legacy?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    it's coming. Subaru will soon introduce a boxer diesel for the European market, probably in the next year or so. This has been reported several times. Whether it make it here, that's another question...

    Bob
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,105
    Hi all - it looks like we have a lot of duplicate conversation going on in our multiple Legacy/Outback discussions, so we've decided to close this one, especially as no '05 Outback has been announced. Please continue in one of these active discussions:
    Subaru Legacy/Outback
    Subaru Legacy GT- Is a turbo coming soon?
    2005 GT Legacy

    Thanks!

    MODERATOR

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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,105
    Back by popular demand!

    MODERATOR

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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    YAY! Anybody got any juicy tidbits as to when these babies will be at North American dealers?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    next summer for turbos.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They're out in Australia...

    -juice
  • Just a note:

    Reviewing the German spec sheet, it mentions side airbags for driver and passenger as standard for all legacy model versions.

    Head airbags for front and rear seats are only avaiable on the 3 ltr. (upscale version).

    I'm sure this message will be important only to some, although I'll respectfully comment that not to have the option of side airbags (much less head airbags) across all models is to argue against any safety device incorporated into automobiles today that most take for granted and count on if an accident were to occur. Thirty years ago many of these devices may have existed but weren't incorporated into the design because car companies argued that buyers didn't want them. Today, these same safety designs are demanded by those smart enough to recognize their value.

    If someone wants to debate about the marginal benefits of side airbags, then let's debate about the marginal benefits of AWD Typically not seen on road vehices thirty years ago, today it's considered a necessity for car companies to offer at least one vehice in their lineup as AWD capable.

    Or how about the mention of the low risk of ever being in such a situation as to use side airbags. Then what's the point in purchasing house insurance or health insurance if you're less than 40 years old and male? Statistically the risks are so low the expense of the insurance will never ever equal the benefit paid out to the insured(for most of us), but we purchase it anyway because we know "it" could happen.

    And let's consider that even hyundai can provide a side airbag for less than 15k when Subaru won't on some of their 17k-21k models. Really, what would it cost to add that head/thorax side airbag? Competitively it shouldn't be more than 300 dollars. A reasonable option many of us would purhase.

    Finally, there are some of us who aren't interested in going 0-60 in 6 seconds, bigger sunroofs, and better speakers. We want reliability, initial affordability, long-term affordability, and safety features equivalent, if not exceeding those of competing manufacturers, passive AND active. If it weren't for these qualities, I wouldn't have purchased my '03 Forester (although I would have preferred purchasing the Legacy if it had the Forester's head/thorax airbags).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Forester has side air bags that protect the head effectively, maybe this would be a cost effective way of offering that extra protection. It aced the new IIHS side impact tests, earning the best score so far from the IIHS.

    So maybe Legacy could get those standard. Though then they'd have to design 2 types of side air bags, if the curtains were available on other models.

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    The Insurance Institute has proven the value of side curtain air bags - go to their site if you haven't seen their research.

    To keep the safety theme alive in Subaru advertising they need to have Forester-type side air bags AT A MINIMUM in all their cars by - like - last year.

    The 2005 Legacy/Outback design needs the side curtain air bags, again, AT A MINIMUM as an option in ALL the various trim levels.

    Consumers will think... Subaru... AWD + all available air bags (how about knee?) = safety. Simple formula for success.

    Personally, I'm ready to buy a car. But I have to have side curtain air bags and as many crash stars as possible before anyone can pry 30K out of my hands.

    Our LLBean has been flawless, so I'm waiting for the 2005 design to add another.

    I just can't believe Subaru would skimp when they are getting so close...

    Ralph
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I agree, and it's possible they will gradually make them more available.

    Only VW makes more safety equipment standard, at least in that price range. Even then, go price a 4Motion, if you demand AWD Subaru comes out far cheaper.

    Subaru has AWD and ABS standard on every vehicle they sell, even the dirt cheap TS wagon. But, in that same spirit, it would be nice to see them continue that trend of being among the first to bring more safety features to the mainstream.

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    The Subaru global site has even more info up on the 2005 redesign - 17" wheels! Yeah! No mention of the Outback sedan though? It also seems the 2 tone is for the 4 and the monotone for the 6. The side bag is not the Forester type (for the head, too), but side curtain head bags seem to be an option for all levels. Safety cage seems even stronger, too. Cool.

    Still hoping for the driver memory settings. And hoping it really is noticeably wider inside - they say it is...

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    My wife wants a wider vehicle next time around, too.

    -juice
  • K9LeaderK9Leader Posts: 112
    Subewannabe noted the commercial of Lance Armstrong on a mountain bike and asked "Why is Lance Armstrong on a dirt bike?" Well, because, just like a Subaru, Lance does it all!

    Most road cyclists include mountain biking as part of their training regimen -- it builds certain skills that road riding tends not to and alleviates some of the boredom of doing the same type of riding all the time.

    Lance also competes in Cyclocross, sort of like steeplechase on bikes using either mountain bikes or bikes specifically for cyclocross (drop handlebars, 700C wheels with knobby tires, frames heavier duty than a road bike but lighter than a mountain bike). His cyclocross and mountain biking experience was directly useful in this year's Tour de France when the other rider went down in front of him and his only option was going off the road and across a field.

    Remember also that Lance started out as a triathlete - running, biking, swimming. Lance and Subaru do it all!

    --K9Leader
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    Honda just announced that it will make all safety features standard on all of its models over the next few years. So even the cheapest Civic will get anti-lock brakes, side curtain air bags, and a stability control system.

    It has also developed a new front end design that gives its vehicles the crash protection of a vehicle weighing 1.8 times the weight of the vehicle. A 3000 pound Honda is suppose to perform like a 5400 pound vehicle in a two car frontal crash. The new Odyssey will be one of the first Hondas to have the new front end design.

    For many years Honda lagged behind other manufacturers on the safety performance and features available in its cars. In the past couple of years, it greatly improved the crash results on its vehicles. It seems like Honda just raised the safety standard again for everyone, and it is going to be hard for Subaru and other competitors to explain why some of their models don't have stability control or side curtain air bags when cheaper Honda models do.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    IT'S ABOUT TIME!

    Sheesh. Sorry, that was two decades of frustration I had to vent off.

    Subaru has ABS (and AWD) standard on every model for years. Welcome to the club, finally!

    -juice
  • ozman62ozman62 Posts: 229
    Why do we have a post about Honda's safety improvements here? That's really nice, but isn't this the 2005 Legacy thread? I agree with Juice on this one, Honda has lagged far behind, and are really just making steps that are long overdue. Is that part of the Resting-on-our-Laurels Syndrome? They've got a ways to go just to get to par.
    Regards
    Owen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If competitors put on pressure with more standard equipment, then Subaru will have to follow suit.

    But let's be honest, Honda is absolutely NOT the manufacturer putting on the pressure. VW is, me thinks. Side curtain air bags standard, ABS, traction and stability control available stand-alone, etc.

    The 2005 Legacy gets side curtains as an option, so we have VW to thank, not Honda.

    -juice
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    I made the Honda comment because others have commented on these features in this forum and because the new Legacy will be competing with Honda. Honda has raised the bar on safety. There are a lot of buyers who have quality concerns about VW and will compare the new Legacy and Outback with what Honda has to offer.

    4WD is not a key feature for buyers in many parts of the country. Stability control and side head protection will be promoted heavily by the Insurance Institute and other organizations, and buyers may view these features as more important than 4WD. I know for me they are, and they will be an important factor in my decision whether to buy a 2005 Legacy versus another car.
  • ozman62ozman62 Posts: 229
    Point taken. However, Honda may have raised their own corporate bar, but they're a long way from being the industry leader. Also, if I understand your original post, Honda is just starting out on this path to more complete safety equipment. Others are already far along, remember, you can get the Legacy, and all its safety equipment, standard or optional, now (in some parts of the world).
        Also, in my opinion, AWD IS a form of stability control.
    Regards, Owen
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    I think Honda will raise the bar for every car in the $15,000 to $30,000 range by making all of these safety features standard. Honda will do for the safety of small, low-priced cars what it did to the minivan market with the Odyssey. Toyota will probably follow suit, and Subaru will have to offer side curtain air bags and stability control at a competitive price on its base Legacy models or lose sales.

    I think it is a very smart marketing move. It may only take Honda a year or two to make these features standard. The redesign of the front end will take longer. The Insurance Institute, Consumer Reports, and others will be promoting the importance of these features and giving Honda a lot of free advertising.

    It shouldn't be hard for Subaru to make these features available on all of its 2005 Legacy and Outback models and then use AWD as an additional advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru has begun to evaluate this strategy given Honda's announcement.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I did apologize in advance for my rant, and never meant to shoot the messenger... :o)

    But you're right, mainstream vehicles getting more safety features forces competitors to do the same. Still, I think even Toyota is well ahead of Honda, offering stability control on many models already.

    If Honda eventually catches up, which is how I look at it, then yes, that'll put even more pressure on Subaru and others.

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    ace1000,

    I totally agree with your comments! I'm in the same position with regard to the 2005 re-design. I currently have a 2001 LLBean that has been great so far (50K next week) and a 96 Accord (110K) I'm looking to off any month now. My 30K goes to the safe, reliable, best looking Japanese model.

    BTW everyone, Honda HAS raised the bar - look at their crash results. 5 star for the Accord, Pilot, CVX (or whatever it is called), etc. It weighs on the decision-making process of intelligent consumers = Subaru's niche, btw. Subaru will need to react swiftly - like in a NY minute - to keep up with the competition... :-)

    And this topic is totally relevant to this discussion!

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    5 stars are easy to get. The IIHS tests are more demanding.

    The Legacy, Impreza, and Forester all earn Best Picks in that test.

    In the side impact tests, the Forester easily beats the CR-V, by a wide margin.

    So I see Subaru already slightly ahead of Honda. If Honda raises the bar, even better, I'm sure Subaru will respond, that is if they don't raise the bar even before Honda does...

    -juice
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    How many Toyotas under $30,000 have all of these safety features standard and not just "available?"

    Optional safety features on Toyotas have often been impossible to get. The last Toyota I had required a four month wait just to get the optional antilock brakes. Others have had the same problem, and I remember Consumer Reports once excluded a Toyota from one of their comparison tests because it couldn't get one with the "optional" antilock brakes. I don't know if Toyota's commitment to safety features is more serious now, but if the feature is not standard on the Toyota I want, then I assume it is not available and don't even bother to contact the dealer.

    By the way I was able to sell my Toyota truck at my elevated asking price in one day because it was one of the few that had antilock brakes. The buyer wanted one with ABS and couldn't find one until I advertised mine.

    For me it is a major marketing advantage to have the safety features standard and not just available or optional. Subaru took this marketing approach with AWD. Honda is now taking the same approach with the safety features.

    In fact, we had excluded Honda from our consideration for a purchase next year because of the lack of safety features. Now we will consider Honda again.
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    to see how Subaru markets the 2005 safety-wise. I think they are going to stress it alot - kind of like the Forester.

    Did anyone see the video ad on the Subaru global site w/ the young girl? Kind of spooky!

    It's time for Subaru to "break on through to the other side" and crush the competition.... hey, they could use The Doors song!

    lol!

    Must be Friday...

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Point taken - we could not find a single 4-cylinder 5 speed Camry with ABS. Not at FOUR dealers in our area.

    That was the 2002 model, maybe it's better now, I dunno.

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    No crash stats out of Japan, yet. They have a pretty thorough testing program. Need to check Europe... anyone hear of any results?

    Ralph
  • sebberrysebberry Posts: 148
    That the 05's don't have a wood inlay in the steering wheel. It is so nice to grip onto...

    For fear of a blank stare from the dealer, I won't ask them to switch the steering wheel for me...
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Good. They wouldn't without MUCHO cash. The airbag lives in there. We are talking many hundreds of dollars just to switch steering wheels. Blank stare? Probably more like giggles galore as soon as you left. Before you left, if you aren't lucky!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They won't do it at all mostly for liability reasons. If that air bag fails, they'll be afraid you'd sue them.

    -juice
  • Nissin GTR watch out, Legacy will spank ya.
    Lot of people gonna get excited when they see a twin turbos version of the Legacy. But it's gonna be a year after. By then I think cars can fly. Too long to wait.
  • Any idea when I can buy one in New Jersey?? The brief Edmunds preview of the 2005 suggested fall of 2004. A dealer I called today said April May 2004. thanks
  • subah6subah6 Posts: 34
    I have just bought the new shape Outback H6 with the new 5 speed sportshift auto. and can pick it up on Wednesday 12 Nov. The new Outback H6 is available here in Australia already. I traded my current pearl white H6 on a metalic white.

    I have driven the new Outback H6 in a demo vehicle and was mightily impressed with the power, 5 speed sportshift, handling, finish and appointments. If anyone is interested I will post more detailed driving impressions when I get the new one.
  • the 2005 legacy in both sedan and wagon form reminds me of some of the classic french designs that peugeot with pininfarina have put out over the years--simple, modern, elegant, balanced, with clean crisp cut lines. nothing looks extraneous or jarring on the body, unlike some recent models such as the nissan maxima whose styling is very forced and unnatural (read non-flowing), and the new BMW 5 series, which is an utter disappointment with its top heavy look and homely high waistline. the new legacy is one of the nicest designs to come out of japan in a very long time, and i will be shopping for one next year when it comes out.
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    Need I say we're all jealous? ;)
    Please share any and all experiences with your new outback.

    Eric
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,822
    "if anyone is interested"

    The new sube you say? ah.... nope... not interested in the slightest... not me ... not one bit... nada ... nothing ... zilch....... that is, not unless you can fly it over here for all of us to test out... ;)

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 53-car history and counting!

  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    "if anyone is interested" ?????

    No, we just go to this thread to waste the time away...

    lol!!!

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Give us the scoop from down under!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks,

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    IF?

    Anyone?

    ;-)

    Please post your first impressions because everyone is certainly interested! Lucky duck, I'm jealous!

    That might just be my next car. Wife is pushing for an automatic, and a slightly bigger vehicle than my Forester. I'm dying to hear what you have to say, particularly how it compares to yours.

    -juice
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Posts: 158
    Yup. I'll second, third or fourth the above emotions. Please give us as detailed a description as your hands can type (we expect hand cramps!). ;-)

    Pictures would be nice as well!

    -Ian
  • I know Patti said she had something big up her sleeve but needed a go to release the word, lets hope it has something to do with the turbo Legacy.

    BTW, mylegacy, it won't be a twin-turbo. All that is used for is for small-displacement engines to spool up quicker by using a smaller turbo on the low-end and a larger one on the high-end. Not needed on 2.5L displacement. Shown with FXT and STi. Will be exciting to see what new Legacy turbo can do!

    Cummon Patti, give us some juicy details! Not like the ones one NASIOC member got from a supposed regional rep (who I hope knows absolutely nothing) saying the turbo Legacy won't be here til 2005 or 2006 (and I'm not quiting model years either.) Lets just hope they're blowing steam.
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