Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

libertycat · July 2003

These outdated, ugly cars better be replaced in 2005. The rear leg room is laughable. I hope the next Outback is more luxurious. I wonder what these will be like.

intrigue2 · July 2003

Well, I've driven a 2000 GT Legacy since october 1999, and don't consider it outdated or ugly.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/05legacy.htm
Take a look at the 2005. I's bigger,more powerful and more refined then the present car, and Subaru also sports a reliability rating that leaves the Volvo V70 in the dust.

libertycat · July 2003

I LOVE THE VOLVO V70!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, I meant by today's standards the Legacy/Outback are outdated and in my opinon it is ugly. Thanks for the link. It was very informative.

rsholland · July 2003

http://www.subdriven.com/features/04_legacy/04_legacy.html

Click on gallery link for mucho pixs. Keep in mind that these are Japanese-spec models, not US-spec models.

Bob

libertycat · July 2003

thanks for the link

intrigue2 · July 2003

came close to leasing an S60 AWD sedan. but after taking a look at consumers reports reliability ratings,there was no comparison with respect to the Subaru and Volvo. The Volvo is on their list of used cars to avoid,and every Subaru is on there list of used cars to buy. Looks aside, which i don't find ugly, the GT has been a joy to drive ,especially in snow,and super reliable, at 60,000 miles only brakes and tires. it's also nice to pass a $60,000 Lexus spinning its wheels when my sube glides by effortlessly. The Volvo is an attractive car, lov its safety recor,but reliability seems to be its weak point.Anyway, will be getting the new GT at the end of the year.

libertycat · July 2003

It is a great sedan. Don't pay attention to Consumer Reports because I have looked at discussions about Volvos (and others) that have a 100% happiness record with the owners. For example, the Dodge Ram has totally happy owners and Consumer Reports did everything but admit they were paid by Ford, GM, and Toyota to do so. A very similar situation occured in the Volvo S60, V70, and S80 reviews. Even Consumer admits the Volvo V70/S60 have average reliability in its 2003 Car Buying Guide. Volvo has great dealerships anyway, so u will almost enjoy taking your car in if u have to, LOL.

lngtonge18 · July 2003

The new Legacy looks great! Very sporty and very European. The rear looks like a more aggressive version of my mom's Audi A4; I love those dual exhausts (will the regular 2.5 have these?). The gauges are sweet looking too. I must admit, Subaru did an excellent job redesigning this car. They may have their first mainstream hit with this car and I may actually look into a Subaru for the first time.

rsholland · July 2003

Subaru has very high owner loyalty. Most Subaru owners that I know, are repeat buyers. Feel free to join us here at the Edmunds Subaru Crew forums.

Bob

libertycat · July 2003

I too, wouldn't consider a current Subaru. I don't like the styling of ONE of their current vehicles. I don't like the Impreza wagon and sedan, Legacy and Outback wagons and sedans, Forester, or Baja. I think my favorites of the current Subarus as far as styling are the Legacy and Outback sedans. They are nicely enough styled but of course are in the most competitive class of the whole Subaru lineup and so are the slowest selling Subarus. For the record, the Baja is the worst styled Subaru ever. What was Subaru thinking of when they designed those BLAND and plain UGLY taillamps. Good riddance! They look like they're from the '80s.

rsholland · July 2003

I'd buy any new Subaru. They're great cars.

Bob

intrigue2 · July 2003

I've been driving a Legacy Gt since October 1999, have 60,000 miles on the car, and it hasn't presented one problem. This is my first Japanese car,and my first Subaru,and it has proven to be rock solid,reliable and drives like it's glued to the road in snow. As for the looks, I find it to be attractive, and would even compare it to the V70, but only in the looks department,as the V70 can't approach theGT's reliablilty record. Perhaps Volvo dealers are great guys and some would welcome frequent trips to the service bay, as for me I'll forgoe the free donuts, and just keep on driving LOL. And I'm getting the 2005 when it comes out,sold on Subaru, after only one car.

ateixeira · July 2003

You like the Outback sedan, and find the Axiom magnificent (in your profile)? It's cool, we're all entitled to an opinion, but both of those are sales duds. Subaru sold both of the Outback sedans they produced this year (LOL), and the Axiom bombed so badly they may take Isuzu down for the count entirely.

They may not stand out but the current lineup isn't exactly ugly (perhaps Baja is an exception), and they've always been about substance over style anyway.

Any how, Subaru has done well, since 1995 sales have almost doubled, imagine now if they start selling cars that are also attractive, like the new Legacy. It can't hurt.

-juice

libertycat · July 2003

I'm just saying they're the best-styled Subarus which IMO isn't saying much.

ateixeira · July 2003

Gotcha now.

Sales seem to indicate the public prefers Subaru's wagons, by far.

Any how, they've hired Andreas Zapatinas away from Alfa, and he formerly worked at BMW, at a time when BMW had its best designs (pre-Chris Bangle Uglification).

Since then, the B11S concept drew plenty of attention and the Legacy is the only design he's overseen. So it's looking good, in more ways than one!

-juice

buddhabman · July 2003

You don't seem to like the way the Subaru Legacy's look but you like the Volvo. Hmmm? Interesting eye you have, but to each his own. IMHO Audi or Saab (Aero owner) have the best looking sport wagons, but I like the Subaru (Legacy GT owner).

I think the new Legacy is going to be an awesome car, it should be compared to the Audi, BMW, Saab, Volvo, MB, etc. Subaru doesn't have any cache, but they have always been competent performers. Now with upgraded interiors they should more highly regarded. Subaru is the poor/wise(wo)mans Euro wagon. 3/4 of the performance for less than 1/2 the price. Now they will be = the performance + for 1/3 the price. They make the Euros better work harder; where do you think this AWD, sport wagon craze revived from? Subaru!!!

libertycat · July 2003

BMWs look better after Chris Bangle IMO. I didn't like former BMWs. AND I love ALL current Volvos except S40, V40, and C70.

ateixeira · July 2003

See how opinions vary? IMO Bangle has almost ruined BMW, the designs at least. They all seem to be getting hunch-backed. The new 7 is getting an emergency face-lift, too.

The new 5's front end looks like Dame Edna's glasses. Hideous. The 6's spy shots look worse than the 7.

It's almost pointless to debate it, styling is subjective. So if you like 'em, great.

To come back on topic, reaction to the new Legacy has been generally very positive.

-juice

kullenberg · July 2003

libertycat · July 2003

o.k. what do u mean by THAT? IMO Bangle has beautified formerly ugly BMWs. The new 5, 6, and X3 series are BEAUTIFUL and the 7 Series isn't bad.

Kirstie_H · July 2003

Folks, let's get back on track talking about the Legacy & Outback. If you generally don't like Subarus, you're probably in the wrong topic and need to move on. This topic is for people to exchange information on the upcoming Legacy redesign.

Although I've never owned a Subaru, almost every owner I've met is extremely satisfied and would buy another one. Carry on.

ateixeira · July 2003

So, how do you guys like the styling on the new Legacy?

So far reactions have been very positive. In the Subaru Crew - Future Models thread, I only heard one slightly negative response, and more than a dozen positive.

I really like it. It's a little derivative of Acura, Audi A4, and the Mazda 6, but they seemed to merge the best of those designs into one well integrated package.

It'll be on my list for my next car, for sure.

-juice

blackbean · July 2003

I like the new Legacy. I wonder how much will carry forward to the Outback models. Any photos of those around?

intrigue2 · July 2003

I'm ordering mine at the end of the year,the new GT, Subaru is the best car I've ever owned.

rsholland · July 2003

Yeah there's a partially masked spy shot floating around on the Internet.

Brenda Priddy & Co. shot it. Try checking her web site.

Bob

rsholland · July 2003

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6096&n=158,- 178&sid=178

libertycat · July 2003

Thanks for the link. Thank goodness it looks very different than the new Legacy.

buddhabman · July 2003

I got blasted by mentioning Subdriven becuase it has a forum, even though it is weak. But check out
Subdriven.com for more Legacy pics. Also cayspyshots.com has Legacy pics. It's a nice upgrade, a little derivative of the Audi from the rear, maybe a little Accordish from the front. But I think Honda stole that look from Subaru. : ) The Legacy is just a great underated car, it should see more appreciation soon.

jlemole · July 2003

I really like the looks of the new wagon. I've not been a real fan of the current legacy wagons (preferring the Outback), but the 05 really has an elegant, but sporty, look to it. I would definitely consider it over a new Outback for something a little more refined.

The new interior stylings look really sweet too.

Jon

subewannabe · July 2003

both look like great strides forward to capture the euro wagon look from the saab/audi/bmw stables, with a bit of honda/mazda thrown in. IMHO,the improvement is so significant that I may try to nurse my old junker through the winter, or at least until SoA announces prices, and hold off buying that Forester XT I am sitting on my check book for ( until my subaru VIP certificate matures). I get pretty excited about XT-like performance from the Legacy turbo wagon with a "skoash more room in the seat and thighs", as Walt Garrett used to say in the Lee jeans commercials.
I am dreading the possibility that Subaru will introduce both the Legacy GT turbo and the new generation Outback at BMW/Audi prices...if I wanted burled walnut, Id buy an end table, not an AWD grocery/kid/dog hauler!
Mark

ateixeira · July 2003

Outback looks good too. The cladding is sort of Volvo XC-ish now, not just painted on. But it's blended well and body color. The XC uses blue or even brown colored cladding, which to me looks odd.

-juice

bhroberts · July 2003

Mark:
My preference is to wait for the new Legacy rather than jump at the Forester XT right now. But, I keep worrying that Subaru will wake up soon and start charging "market" prices for 250 HP AWD vehicles.

jchan2 · July 2003

I think that these cars are going to start the mass transition from SUV over to Crossover/Wagon/Minivan. I would buy any Subaru, because they're great in the snow, with great safety records, great reliability, and don't use too much gasoline in the process. They're different than other cars too. They just stick out in some sort of odd way that Volvos,Saabs, and Mazdas do.

hondafriek · July 2003

With Kirstie, libertycat is very obviously a troll in here to bash Subaru, so my question why is anyone wasting time communicating with the troll.

Cheers Pat.

subewannabe · July 2003

at least in the photos of the japanese spec version, look a lot like the seats in the current WRX, with the pronounced bolsters to keep your seat and torso in place in the twisties. I really like those WRX seats and the rather flat seats in the Forester XT have me concerned about long-drive comfort. Obviously, pronounced fixed seat bolsters make it hard to slide across a seat as you get into it, as is the case in a higher vehicle like an SUV or truck. My 04 Explorer solved that problem with power pneumatic seat bolsters that you can inflate once you're in the seat. In a lower ride vehicle, like a WRX wagon, you descend into the seat at the same time you move your rear over the seat . Its got me thinking that the '05 Legacy turbo wagon may be a better match for my needs than a 04 Forester XT at least enough to wait on the Legacy.
Mark

libertycat · July 2003

I don't like current Subarus. I am hoping that these new ones will help me to like a Subaru. In fact, I CREATED this discussion.

subewannabe · July 2003

libertycat, I noticed the fact that you created this discussion. I assume until proven otherwise that you are a car enthusiast with particular interest in AWD vehicles.
Vehicle style taste is so personal. I see the Mustang concept car looks almost exactly like a '69 Mach 1. For me, that car was a rolling wet dream, given my age and exposure to cars at the time. Yet, I understand how some folks hate that look . The only competition for a '69 Mach 1 was a '70-71 Hemi Cuda or a Challenger TA with a 440 Mopar monster with dual Holley 4 barrel carbs ...have you noticed what the going price for one of those is, these days? Cheaper to get a new Porsche!
Mark

libertycat · July 2003

Great interpretation, it is totally correct!

intrigue2 · July 2003

Found these in another topic, but they demonstrate what a beauty the '05 will be.

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/bt/gallery/ex006_wp_s.jpg

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/bt/gallery/ex013_wp_s.jpg

As for the car enthusiast, in the recent JD powers listing Subaru was in the top six,didn't notive Volvo though.Oh well, I guess all those free donuts for the many trips to the volvo service bay,due to its low reliability ratings might be responsible.

luck11 · July 2003

I'm going to pipe in here and give my thumbs up on the new Subs. As a current 00 Outback owner who is looking to trade in in the next year, I am definitely pleased that Subaru is changing the look. I must say that at this point, I'm leaning towards the Legacy, but its too early to tell with only 1 or 2 pics of the Outback floating around. My only concern, as others have expressed, is pricing. I hope they keep the pricing reasonable.

rsorganize · July 2003

Had been trying to decide among the OB LL Bean, A4 Avant and Saab 9-5 and 9-3. But, I am really intrigued by the changes in the offing on the 2005 Legacy - bigger engine, bigger interior, better seats, better looking (IMHO). While I'm sure my anxiety level on the next Volvo XC ('99)repair disaster will be unabated until I dump the car, I think I'll be a lot happier with the 2005 - if it comes out looking and driving as the previews suggest. So, unless/until something else goes wrong, driving me over the edge, I think I'll wait on the 2005 Legacy GT wagon, w/leather and, perhaps, manual. Could be a lot of fun. Peace.

prisc · July 2003

Hi folks!

Does anyone have any information detailing the dimensions on the new Legacy? I've read several people comments stating that it will be bigger but I haven't come across any real data.

I have a general comment to make to any car designers out there.

I think that designing a car interior to resemble an airplane cock pit is great, but it does cut down on interior space and make it more difficult for taller/larger people to find a comfortable driving position.

I found this to be the case with the new Accord and several other re-model cars. I'm 6'2" tall and find it extremely fustrating to sit in a great car and have my right knee rub up against the center console. I bring this up here because I found the pictures of the new Legacy interior to suggest my knee would hit the center console.

Other than that the '05 Legacy looks awsome.

help ......

ateixeira · July 2003

Some of the articles above might have specifics. It should be a little longer and wider, so room should be improved.

They do appear to give up the double-decker roof, so we'll have to see how airy it feels inside.

-juice

rsholland · July 2003

The new model is up to 105.1" It's a bit wider too. The length is about the same.

Bob

jchan2 · July 2003

Anyone have a base price?

ace1000 · July 2003

The August issue of the British magazine, Car, has a "Newcomer" article on the new Legacy. It drove the 260 HP Japanese model. UK is suppose to get only a 238 HP version of the 2.0 engine plus a range of other H4 and H6 engines. The base price was estimated to be 18,000 pounds.

Car gave the new Legacy a rating of 3 out of 5 stars and described it as a "good, if average, car." Elsewhere it describes the car as competent but not exciting.

In every issue Car summarizes its ratings on all the cars available in the UK. Its comments are frank and often amusing. In contrast to the Legacy, it gives the Forester 2.0 XT a rating of 4.5 stars, and the cons that it lists for the XT are "rolly" handling and being thirsty.

prisc · August 2003

Regarding the XT, the thristy thing kinda bothered me a bit. With a 16gal tank and assuming and ave of 20mpg that mean your range would be ~ 320miles per fillup (probably 40 or so miles less since most people don't run their tank dry).

Anyway, since the '05 Legacy that we will see in the US is being sold in the UK and Japan as an '04, I would think that true spec's (in so far as dimension are conserned) should be available on the web somewhere. Has anyone looked into this ?

ateixeira · August 2003

The topic of fuel mileage is being discussed in the XT topic right now. All polled so far are averaging better than 20mpg, I think it ranges from 21 to 23 or so, FWIW.

-juice

subewannabe · August 2003

Ive heard lots of rumors about a 2.5 L turbo in the US release, as opposed to the 2.0 turbo in the Japanese and New Zealand versions, the only ones out so far. 20% more displacement should allow a lot of capability for even better acceleration and top end without stressing the engine as much. Probably wont help with fuel efficiency, if the Forester XT is any indication.

buddhabman · August 2003

August issue of C&D has a preview of the Subaru Legacy. They mention the upgrade in interior quality and stylings, plus it's lighter. They also mentioned the two US engines; 1.) a detuned 2.5L H4 Turbo - 250 HP; 2.) 3.6L H6 - 250 HP.

IMHO Subarus are generally worth the premium but the 30-35K+ price point will be an interesting market. I think it will be worth it, the Legacy will still be 5-10K+ less than a comparable Euro wagon.

ateixeira · August 2003

We're hearing all kinds of power output and even displacement numbers for the H6.

-juice

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