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2. How do you 2.5i owners feel about the power? Are you comfortable getting on freeways with some load? Does it go right on up the mountains with some load?
3. Owners of turbo or 6 cylinder engines, how bad is it when you use regular gas?
Thanks.
2. Cannot comment (I only tested the GT Limited and the XT Limited)
3. You do not use regular fuel in either the 3.0 or the 2.5 Turbo motors. Both are programmed for use with premium fuel, and you could do engine damage if you were to intentionally fill with non-premium fuel. During summer, I'm averaging between 22.8-24 MPG in NYC commuter traffic w/ A/C running almost constantly. In winter, with 16" heavy cleated/studded winter tires (and NJ's oxygenated winter fuel) I'm averaging approx 22 MPG. My "best" mileage ever was 25.6 highway.
Hope that helps!
Tim
'05 OBXTL 5MT
That being said I usually put in premium fuel. Sometimes I do the middle grade (Super?). I have never put regular un-leaded in though. I dont notice a difference between the premium & super.
Kristen
Hope this helps - good luck!
Ken in sunny Seattle
Craig
I have always felt the base 2.5 was fine with a 5-spd manual. if you need automatic and/or carry lots of passengers, the H6 or turbo motor is a better bet.
Right now, I have an 05 XT with the 5EAT, and it's a great vehicle. This is the first automatic transmission vehicle I have owned that I actually like a lot. the combination of the turbo motor and the fast shifting 5EAT is great.
Craig
Still, the car manages about 24.9 MPG between oil changes (many many tankfuls), so thats something to consider, and it also feels a bit more sprightly now with 17k miles on it than when we first got it last July (cant believe its been a year already!!).
That said, the 2006 model will breathe better due to the AVLS, and even though the increase in hp is about 8 (?), it might be stronger in all rev ranges, resulting in a better feel.
Shorter answer: The car accelerates better in passing manuvers then, say, a 0-60, but its definitely only adequate with the automatic, no more, though its not any less either.
Joe
It is a true crossover. offers utility, great GClearance, power, small enough to drive like a sedan, AWD, with that moonroof. there is nothing like it for 28k.
I have a big issue with the 5 speed automatic transmission. It is very smooth in the normal drive position as well as the sport setting, which holds the shift points a little longer for faster acceleration. My problem is in the manual mode (where I can select a specific gear). The car will only allow me to shift into an appropriate gear, so as not to lug or red-line the engine. that's fine. If i am on the freeway and force the car into 5th, it works great. However as I come off an exit and the speed slows the car will shift itself down to successively lower gears as one might expect. When i come to a stop the car has shifted itself into 1st gear, and it will hold that gear regardless of my subsequent speed. The engine is so smooth and quiet that I often don't realize that I am winding up the engine. It would seem smarter to have the transmission shift itself back into automatic/sport if the car comes coasting toward a stop while in the manual mode.
There was a recall that was supposed to affect this problem. I had the computer flashed with a new setting which would prevent red-lining somehow, but it does not seem to have fixed the problem. And a side issue has occurrred. The transmission now has very little ability to brake the car in a steep downhill situation, forcing me to lean on the brakes, with overheating rotor possibilities. Even when the manual shifter is set at "1", the car is pretty much frreewheeling. This did not happen before the flash was done.
Has anyone else notice this? Is there someone at Subaru i can discuss this with? I can take it back to the dealer, but I'm pretty sure they cannot program the computer themselves. Can I have the factory setting back?
Anxiously, DB
If so, that is a great "manu-matic" system.. On our BMW, the car automatically upshifts when you get to redline in manual mode (what is manual about that?)... I hate that..
regards,
kyfdx
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In normal or sport mode, the car should do all shifting and automatically select the right gears.
If you happen to shift in the +/- gate, manual mode is invoked. At that point, the only thing it does automatically is drop into "1" when you come to a stop. Otherwise, it is full manual and you have to do the shifting.
Rule of thumb -- if you see the gear digits on the dashboard, then you are in full manual mode (this does not apply to XT and GT models with the steering wheel buttons -- they also have a temporary manual mode).
So basically, if you have done any manual shifting in a VDC you are in manual mode from that point on. You'd have to flip the lever to the right to reset back to auto mode.
Craig
Bob
-juice
As you correctly pointed out, the reflash for the H6 models allows the transmission to upshift before hitting the rev limiter. The turbo models will bounce off the rev limiter all day in manual mode.
From your description, it appears as though manual mode is working normally. In manual mode, the driver is able to select a gear that will not harm the engine or transmission (as indicated by the red arrows next to the gear position indicator). If the TCU senses a conflict (ie. redlining or lugging) it will chose a more appropriate gear. From my perspective, it makes sense that the transmission stays in 1st gear in manual mode even after you've started again. After all, in manual mode, the driver should be both up and downshifting into the appropriate gear.
Regarding the engine braking, perhaps the reflash caused the TCU to also lose it's adaptive learning? Give it a few hundred miles to see if the transmission re-learns your driving style. Also, "Sport" auto mode results in more agressive engine breaking and shift points -- have you tried this mode?
Ken
What I mostly use the manual option for is to hold the car in 5th gear while driving at highway speeds. The ratios on this transmission are designed such that the car repeatedly shifts up to 4th and back to 5th on a modest grade when it appears to me that the engine has plenty of power to remain in 5th. This manual approach seems to work fine, except that after a couple of hours of cruising on the freeway, if I exit, or otherwise slow down, the transmission secretly shifts into successively lower gears, without any evidence that this has happened (except the indicator # below the tach, on which I never focus). In a real manual shift car, the cue comes from the engine, or from the response of the clutch. Maybe an audible tone that the car is shifting down to lower gears would help remind me that the manual shifter is downshifting for me.
As for engine braking...I had the flash done about 4000 miles ago. If it actually learns my driving style, that should have happened by now. I had vaguely noticed the problem on normal roads, but last weekend I was alerted to it while driving down a very steep (10%) mountain (dirt) road. In this situation, neither normal automatic nor sport shift would not do anything to control speed. In manual mode, only gear 1 seemed to have any effect at all, and its effect could only be called modest. If I were to drive these kind of roads with any regularity, the brakes would get very hot and perhaps be compromised.
DB
I think our 5EAT transmissions are just too smooth!
On a serious note, if the downshifts are imperceptible, then why bother manually keeping it in 5th? Why not just let the transmission do what it wants to?
The only time I use manual mode is if I'm doing a canyon run (mostly 34 shifts), going down a long hill or if I'm in bumper-bumper traffic. Most of the time, I just leave it in Sport auto mode.
You're right, the TCU should have learned by 4000 miles. I don't know what to say other than to bring it up with the dealer. I'm not sure how a reflash could affect engine braking since it would not affect the gear ratios.
As for the brakes, you could consider swapping out to GT rotors and pads when the time's due. The larger GT brakes along with vented rears have shown to be quite fade resistant in road tests.
Ken
One of the big reasons people don't like automatic transmissions is the fact that under some engine load and gradient combinations, one finds oneself right at the shift point and the car (annoyingly) shifts repeatedly back and forth...back and forth. The fifth gear in the 5EAT is very high (which I like) but it is a little touchy...almost like it prefers to be in 4th. The downshift/upshift between 4 and 5 is definitely noticable and that is why I use 5 manual.
The imperceptible shifts happen when the car is in a manual gaer (say 5) and the speed goes down below an acceptable speed for that gear. it shifts from 5 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 and there is no feedback that it is doing it. It ends up in the correct gear, but since it is in manual mode it will hold that one gear until I manually shift. It is especially dire when I come rolling to a stop at the end of an exit ramp, forgetting that I'm in manual mode and not noticing that the car has put itself in gear 1.
As for the engine braking, it feels like, even though the indicator says gear 1, it feels like gear 2. The brakes work fine...I just have to use them more than I'd like on a long, very steep grade.
DB
DB
In any event, if it downshifts gently on a mild hill, then it is doing it to prevent the engine from lugging. If you force it to stay in 5, then either you will be lugging the engine or the torque converter will unlock and you'll get slippage in the TC which heats up the transmission fluid and ultimately wastes gas.
After reading your description, I realize that the transmission is working fine. When you manually put it into 5, you have entered full manual mode where you have to do the upshifting and downshifting. In this mode, if you get off the highway and do nothing, the transmission will only downshift as needed to prevent the engine from lugging. Meaning, it will downshift lazily and at the last possible minute (no engine braking or predictive downshifts as you get in normal and sport modes). You will feel like you are coasting with no power. As you come to a stop, it will shift into 1 automatically. From that point on, you have to be in control of the upshifts, because the transmission won't do it unless you hit the rev limiter. So I'd say it is working normally.
If you still feel the need to put it in 5 on the highway, then either follow up with manual shifting afterwards, or flip the lever back into normal or sport mode after getting off the highway.
Craig
You should not expect engine braking on a steep/slow downhill in anything other than gear 1. In normal/sport, the transmission quickly upshifts into 2 even when going down a steep hill. You would need to manually put it in 1 to stay in 1 and get engine braking at low speeds. You can experiment with this by putting it in manual mode and trying different gears as you go down the hill (or look inthe owners manual where it gives speed ranges for each gear). If it's like any of the offroad situations I have been in (with a variety of cars and transmissions, some manual, some auto) then 1 will be the appropriate gear. This is common when offroading. Some expensive SUVs have a crawl mode which puts the transmission in 1 and pulses the brakes to maintain speed automatically. The rest of us need to do it manually.
I guess the bottom line -- realize that an auto transmission has a slipping fluid coupling between the engine and the wheels. You cannot get true engine braking unless the torque converter locks up, and that only happens in higher gears. What allows us to remain in gear when at a stop also prevents us from getting direct engine braking. That's the ultimate problem.
Craig
I have noticed that each gear seems to have 2 speeds, so it is interesting to know that is due to the locking/unlocking of the torque converter. I guess you are saying that I am better off in gear4 with the TC locked, than in gear5 and the TC unlocked. I have been driving it as I ride my bike (which has half-step gearing), but there is clearly more to think about in a car. Is it inadvisable to drive in manual5 if it requires the TC to unlock?
DB
---You should not expect engine braking on a steep/slow downhill in anything other than gear 1.
This is what I experience.
However, before the comuter was re-flashed, I had excellent engine braking in gear1 and gear2 had some modest braking capability (somewhat akin the what I now get while in gear1). Since the reason for the recall notice was to address issues about redlining the engine in manual gear 1, is it possible that the fix to that issue has undone one of the main reasons to put the car in manual gear1?
If it is not possible to get this problem solved, can I get the computer un-flashed (ie, set the shifting firmware back to the way it was at delivery)?
DB
-juice
Which can only mean coffee cans, neon lights, and big wings on Legacies.
Hey, it's not my style either, but if it brings Subaru more customers I think it's great. Plus these are folks in their formative years, so good experience could bring future sense of ingrained loyalty.
If you're into the import mod scene, the travelling show Hot Import Nights and Road & Track have a sweepstakes to win a Legacy GT Limited sedan modified by Road & Track.
At least it's better than a faux convertible vinyl top! :P
-juice
Joe
I have a feeling the TC unlocks if you keep it in 5th and the car really wants to be in 4th -- that would be the only way to avoid lugging the engine. In that case, it will definitely heat up the trans fluid (potential wear and tear) and waste energy (lower gas mileage). Generally, variable gearing helps you keep the engine in its sweet spot, so you may be better off letting it do what it wants. So yeah, I think you'd better off in 4 (regardless of the TC) if you hit a hill or your speed drops.
Craig
FJ60
If set to AUTO and 65, it will seriously blast out the cold (that is max cool). I normally leave it on auto and 72-75F. We have been having temps in the high 90s and heat indices up to 110F, and I haven't had any complaints about the AC in my OB XT. I also have a black interior, which doesn't help!
Craig
I turn off the AC, then turn it back on again on manual 65 at the highest fan setting. I read on earlier posts that this will put the AC on full manual mode -- I don't care for the auto setting. I'll have the dealer check the HVAC during my next oil change.
FJ60
I am not so impressed with the A/C on my GT, either. Yesterday was 91 degrees. I had it on MAX A/C - 65 AUTO, and it was well over a half hour before the car started to get cooled off.
I drove the dw's 03 Outback last weekend, and really noticed the huge performance difference in the A/C. 90+ degrees and high humidity. I had the car cooled down in 5 minutes.
FWIW, it is a known fact that the ACC is a PITA, but I have no regrets buying (or recommending) this car. Rob M.
It seems that some settings add heat to the airflow, even if the A/C is on. Has anyone actually documented what all is happening.
DB
You probably already know this, but max AC also requires the vent be set to recirculate. I don't recall if that is the default when starting from manual. Whatever AUTO+65 does, that is the max it can do, so if you were replicating that with manual and it was too hot, then maybe something is wrong.
Really the only thing that hurts cooldown in my OB XT is the black leather seats -- they keep the body warm for quite a while even after the interior air has cooled. But having a gold car (compared to dark green on my previous Outback) seems to help somewhat in the overall process -- I imagine the car is cooler to begin with. One of these days I need to tint the back windows....
Craig
FJ60
While I agree that the ACC unit logic and interface is clearly not the best, I've found the AC cooling to be very good on my 05 LGT wagon. On hot summer days out here in California, I've been impressed at how quickly the unit is able to send cool air into the cabin along with the fan speed.
I wonder if your AC unit is low on coolant. It might be worth having it checked by the dealer next time.
Ken
Craig
It's all ok though, I still love my 2005 Outback VDC!
A few weeks ago, the AC became weak again, so I took it to a repair shop, who found that the compressor and condensor were both leaking. The parts together cost $1100.
That got me curious. What causes such component failures? were the two incidents related? Did the first cause the second?
The second shop told me that a leak in the circuit can cause premature wear that was not apparent at the time of the first incident.