Scion tC

genee · July 2004

I am about to order a tC but am concerned that there isn't even room in the "trunk" for a grocery bag. Are people still having trouble getting the side airbags? I live in Salem, OR and there seem to be plenty of the cars to drive and the dealer says a couple of days turn-around should be expected. Of course he told me four to six months for the last Toyota and it was four months to the day.

stickguy · July 2004

There is plenty of room for groceries, etc. Plus, a golf bag will fit. Just don't expect to put 4 of them in there!

Seriously, check it out for yourself. It is fine for any normal use, and you can always take the cover panel off, or even fold the seats if needed. With the seats down, you get a whole lotta room.

wolfx · July 2004

also, the seats drop down (2/3) very easily to open up space for more groceries than you can imagine. This car is the ultimate commuter sporty car that you never have to apologize for when tooling around the coolest parts of town. More than 1 instance I've had people with BMWs run up to me and ask me how much I paid, because they want one too.

genee · July 2004

Has anyone found a source - other than dealers - for custom floor mats for the tC? There is NO WAY I am going to pay $145 for four pieces of carpet when custom embroidered mats are on line for $65 for nearly everything but the tC.

Most of the talk seems to be about Flint mica. Anyone have a Black Cherry?

hc72 · July 2004

Genee,
Try this link. I think that this is a dealer selling parts at discount on the web. Found this link in another tC forum. They are factory originals. Note: I have never bought anything from it, not sure how good they are, but your credit card should have some protection. Let us know how it goes.
http://www.partznet.com/toyota/scion/accessories/tchomepage.html

zoli20877 · July 2004

I test drove a Tc last week, to my surprise there was a lot of wind noise was coming from the sunroof area. The roof was closed completely when I checked. Does anyone experienced this on their new Tc?

Thanks

bizurk · July 2004

It's the online parts branch of Conicelli autoplex, one of the largest multi-brand mega-dealers in the Philadelphia area. Thus they're definitely reputable, but I wouldn't expect mom and pop level service.

Has anyone ordered scion parts from them? They seem to have slightly lower prices than the party line....

stickguy · July 2004

I find it to have very little wind noise with the roof closed. Maybe just a whisper, but only noticable because the car is otherwise so quiet.

Maybe it wasn't closed all the way, or possibly something was out of alignmnet?

ANyway, noise level is very subjective, so YMMV, bu IMO, a very quiet car overall.

stickguy · July 2004

Th tC has the nicest OEM mats of any car I have ever owned. The drivers side one has 2 grommet/hooks, so it doesn't move around at all. Both front mats have a rubvber section toward the seats (I think it is to catch water, but maybe it just looks cool). And the $145 includes a custom fit embroidered trunk mat, with cut outs for the tie down hooks and knobs to release the trunk cover.

That's actually a neat feature. Instead of a flimsy plywood piece dropped in the trunk well, it has a solid cover with 2 lock dewn knobs. Underneath is a pretty neat cargo organizer.

Another nice tuouch is the cubby at the base of the center stack is lighted, so yo can wee whats in there at night. Not sure why, but it's one of the many neat touches the tC has.

zoli20877 · July 2004

I test drove a Tc last week, to my surprise there was a lot of wind noise was coming from the sunroof area. The roof was closed completely when I checked. Does anyone experienced this on their new Tc?

Thanks

genee · July 2004

I just checked out the floor mats at partznet. When you add in the shippping they want for a set of five, you are only $9 short of getting them locally. It did talk about the front mats being two layers. Take the carpet out for winter rains. First time I have heard about that feature - except for an on line site in one of the car mags. Any comments. Stickguy says the factory set is way cool but didn't mention the two-in-one thing.

stickguy · July 2004

I will have to take a look. If the carpet part comes out, I'm not aware of it.

hc72 · July 2004

Here is link to recent Car and Driver detailed review
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=8288

7.4 sec 0 to 60. They also said that tC is almost just as fast as IS300 V6. Interesting...

By the way, Car & Driver posted that coefficient of drag for tc is 0.32 as compared to 0.28 for 2004 Camry. As suspected, this 14.3% drop is one of the main reasons for tC having less gas mileage when compared to Camry (even though it is smaller and weight less)

hc72 · July 2004

Here are couple of Coefficient of Drag values that I found on the web for comparison.

2000 Mercedes C-Class .27
2000 Mercedes C180 .26
2000 Lexus LS430 .25 (dimpled chasis panels?)
2001 Honda Insight .25
2003 Toyota Camry SE .28
2004 Infiniti G35 Sedan .27

Un fortunately, there is not much we can do to reduce CD. Covering the fog light holes similar to that of Subaru WRX STI might help.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=06373196

mackabee · July 2004

Those are some nifty mats! I wondered why there was a plastic section to them. I looked at a set on a tC that arrived this morning and the carpet section indeed does come off. Very ingenious. Wait till I tell my son about this feature.

Mackabee

scootertrash · July 2004

Did you miss the part of the Car and Driver review that mentioned that it's geared much lower than the Camry?
Simple: More RPM = More gas consumption.

hc72 · July 2004

Here is the quote from the article:
"The Camry also donates to the tC its buttery five-speed manual, albeit with a revised linkage and shorter gear ratios and the optional four-speed auto."

Yes, gear ratios are shorter for 5 speed manual, but I believe that the 4 speed auto is unchanged.

Refer to the quote from this test drive: http://www.nctd.com/printversion-review.cfm?Vehicle=2005_Scion_tC- &ReviewID=1566
"The transmission gearing in the automatic that we drove for this test is wholly unsuitable for bigtime acceleration, with an overall ratio of just over 10:1 (the first-gear ratio times the axle ratio), while the manual is almost 50 percent lower, almost 15:1, for maximum acceleration in first gear."

Camry automatic has better mileage (22/33) than TC automatic (23/30). You are right that RPM does affect the mileage but as it is not the only thing.

Mackabee,

The carpet can be removed during raining or snowing days to keep the carpet from getting soaked. It is probably not a big deal in Florida or California, where it is sunny most of the time.

However, in Northwest (Oregon) it rains all the time during fall, winter, and spring. Sunny is very dry on the other hand. That is a very neat and valuable feature here. Unfortunately, Scion only applied it to the front seat mats.

307web · July 2004

For 2005, the Camry gets a 5-speed automatic on the 4 cylinder models. I wonder why the tC only has a 4-speed?
The mileage gap between the tC and the Camry will likely widen even further.
Maybe the 2006 tC will get a the new 5-speed automatic.

rorr · July 2004

"I wonder why the tC only has a 4-speed?"

$$$$$$$

8^)

stickguy · July 2004

Yet another reason to get the stick.

Also, I played with the carpet mats today, and darned if you can't peel the carpet piece out, leaving a rubber all-weather mat. Even has a lip (from where it holds the carpet) to drap water.

Might just have to use this feature in the winter. Should greatly extend the life of the carpet, and mayber be cheaper to replace in the future (assuming you can just buy the carpet refill).

ANother neat trick: the inside lights dim up and down. When you open the door, they don't go to full bright, instead the start low and then get brighter (like pushing a dimmer switch up). Same thing in reverse when they go out.

ghgh · July 2004

hc72, your citation/quotation from NCTD was a little misleading -- a "however" immediately follows the quoted text in the original. The full quote reads as follows:

"The transmission gearing in the automatic that we drove for this test is wholly unsuitable for bigtime acceleration, with an overall ratio of just over 10:1 (the first-gear ratio times the axle ratio), while the manual is almost 50 percent lower, almost 15:1, for maximum acceleration in first gear. However, the automatic does move out smartly, it's obviously much easier to live with in gooey traffic, and will get significantly better highway mileage than the manual, which is saddled with a very low 4.235 axle ratio. No complaints on the powertrain. "

hc72 · July 2004

Sorry, I am not trying to say that automatic is bad. As a matter of fact, I am getting a tC with automatic. It is much more convinient in the long term even though it cost $800 more. Other people in the house does not know how to drive a stick.

I was trying to show that the automatic gearing is from 2004 Camry. Ironically, as 307web noted, the 2005 Camry is now available in 5 speed automatic. This makes sense since Accord (main competitor for Camry) has the 5 speed auto. I wonder whether the new 5 speed for the Camry can be a drop-in replacement for the tC. Control chip would have to be changed though.

mackabee · July 2004

Not to mention a big and I mean big repair bill from your local Toyota/Scion dealer. Not worth it IMHO.
: D
Mackabee

volcomknurd · July 2004

I'm looking at getting a Tc. I was wondering if anyone here knew what the deal was with payments. since its a 4-6 week wait to get it, do you start paying immediatly(sp) or on Delivery? if so, can you postpone the Down Payment? i was just wondering cause if you can i can save, and drop more money down on arrival of the car. let me know. Thanks

stickguy · July 2004

you don't pay until the car arrives and you do the paperwork to take ownership. If it is going to be 4-6 weeks wait, the most you will need to do is leave a deposit (normally not more than $500), although some dealers may not even require that. Of course, the deposit counts as part of your down payment.

Often, dealers will take the deposit against a credit card, and not even bother to put the charge through. It's really just done to make you feel like it is "your" car, and to keep you from shopping (or getting on the waiting list) at other dealers.

with the tC, you shouldn't have to worry about getting the deposit back if for some reason you can't take the car, since they should have no problem selling it to someone else.

volcomknurd · July 2004

So pretty much i can go and order it today, and they wont ask for a Deposit untill Delivery? I would go ask, but i work all weekend, and wont have a chance to drop in till Monday. What do the actual owners think of the car? i loved it the second i saw it, and am going to test drive it on monday. Let me know what you think, Pros and Cons. It would be awesome to buy now and pay later, that way i'll be able to drop more down to pay less each month.

Doesnt anyone think its odd that the floor mats are a Standard Option? kind of an oxymoron. i was told that i was going to have to pay the $145 for the mats as an option, but i had to get it with the car. Very Odd. if there is a way to avoid them, i wouldnt mind going to Costco and getting a pair for $20

stickguy · July 2004

scroll back in this thread. There are quite a few posts from owners, but if you still have specific questions, post them.

Go and test drive, and if you want one, the dealer wil work out the details, but pretty much you won't have to come up with any real $$ until it arrives.

The mats are not required. They actually come in a bag, and the dealer installs them when they prep the car. SO, if you really don't want them, just tell the dealer yo don't want them. But, they are really nice mats, custom fit to the car (including a trunk rug), and even have removable carpet sections in the front mats.

designgirl · July 2004

I am going to be buying the tC and wanted to thank all of you for an excellent posting site! Your advice has been invaluable and I am confident this car is for me. While there has been much discussion about manuals, and only recently talk of automatics, I wanted to know how they have faired? I live in Southern California and have awful traffic to deal with so an automatic is my best choice - is it advisable to wait till next years models come out? Also, on a side note, I don't think anyone has mentioned the tC's likeness to the Infinity G35 - it's another way it looks ultra-stylish. Thanks again for all of the tips...

volcomknurd · July 2004

Is the Factory Deck (pioneer) powerfull enough, and even equipped to run an aftermarket sub? i have my own sub and amp, i would just have to do all the wiring. i know some stock radios arent adequate enough to handle the Amp and Sub, so the sounds get muffled. anyone have a System in their tC? or have heard one? let me know.

stickguy · July 2004

auto: I didn't drive one, but from what I have heard, it is perfectly fine. Just drive it, and if you like it, no reason to wait until next year due to the tranny.

Radio: I just have the stock system, but it sounds plenty powerful to me. I believe that there is a sub option available from the dealer, so I imagine that it must be set up for easy plug and play. But, I'm not an audio expert, and it's been a long time since I had anything but stock.

jrct9454 · July 2004

Another reason not to wait is that there is absolutely no guarantee that Toyota has any plans to change to the 5spd automatic in this car next year or anytime soon. In the interests of keeping the MSRP low, I would in fact bet against it...

alphabass · July 2004

I previously posted about long waiting times for the flint mica automatic w/ side airbags I ordered. However, my dealer just called today and said one would be in within a week (though I would have to take it with the lip spoiler, which I did not order). Ironically, the dealer we ordered a 2004 Prius called just a few hours later and said that we would have our silver package #9 within 3 weeks (which is not bad, since we ordered it in November). The Prius comes with a voice-activated navigation system, keyless entry and keyless start, 60 mpg, etc., yet I love the tC and think it is definitely a much more stylish car. Though the Prius is $8k more up front, the gas mileage makes the two about the same price. Any comments on which to get (too bad I can't get both!)? Thanks!

gambit293 · July 2004

In case you guys haven't heard by now, Toyota officially announced it's pulling the plug on the celica:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20040716

This should divert a further portion of the sport coupe market to Scion. (albeit not a very large group given that celica had pretty low sales figures)

cwilks · July 2004

I noticed a few threads back, someone posted a site where they sell the tc accessories for much cheaper than factory installed. I am curious if anyone has yet ordered from that site. Also since there are so many features for the tc, was it designed in a way to be plug and play with the car. I guess what I am getting at, how hard is it to install many of these features for all those who want to save a few $$ and do it themselves. Thanks for everyone who is so knowledgeable on this forum. I test drove the tc yesterday, hands down the best car in it's class, and I have test drove civic ex, tiburon, and mazda 3, none can compare with the combination of style, performance and especially features.

cwilks · July 2004

I am getting ready to order my tc. However, I think I want flint mica but have not seen it in person so I feel like I am going out on a whim. I currently have a silver car and love it. I could get the tc in silver, but want to go for something different. Family of mine own GM cars that have the dark gray metallic, I am assuming like flint mica. Question to all those out there, is this a similar color? Also how dark is this color? I also heard from the dealer the metallic in the paint is the best out of all the colors. Also he said the flint mica will most likely be the most popular color. Thanks to all for keeping this forum informative.

bamacar · July 2004

I don't understand about the two being the same price when considering the gas mileage.

If you drive 15k miles a year and assume the tC would average about 26 MPG, and the Prius (48 MPG - real world average) with gas at $2.00 a gallon, the Prius would save about $528 a year. Thus the break even point would be 15 years and each car would have 225,000 miles.

Of course with consideration of the future value of that 9k, the break even point would be considerably longer. Also the Prius may need new batteries at 150,000 miles and that could cost up to $3000 for replacement.

The Prius may have a few advantages over the tC, but the costs for each even figuring in the MPG difference are miles apart. The tc also has a number of advantages over the Prius.

stickguy · July 2004

took my first real trip in the tC today (about 190 mi. round trip to Maryland from NJ). Was actually very impressed with how well it did as a highway car. Tracked nicely, very quiet, nice composed ride. Buzzed right along at 70-80 and didn't feel like it was breaking a sweat. You really have to look at the tach to even tell the engine is on at 75 MPH, you really don't hear or feel it much. Also has tremendous pick up w/o downshifting (the plus side to the shortish gearing).

CLimate control system is also very impressive. You don't hear it much or feel a draft, just get lots of air the right temp where you want it. It was very rainy today, and the defroster kept the windows nice and clear.

The isolation from the outside noise really does feel lexus like. I can't imagine there is another mid-teens car that is this quiet.

Seats seemed comfortable, even with 4 hours in the saddle. I'm still getting used to the fairly pronounced lumbar support, but my bad back wasn't sore, so it must be designed right.

Tracked very well, no wandering, very few corrections required. The Potenzas seemed to handle the water on the raod just fine, and there was a lot of it.

Even got to take some back roads, and decided to stretch its legs a little. Actually quite entertaining. Very good handling, quick acceleration, really a good point and shoot car on windy roads. Once it's broken in (I'm not quite to 500 miles yet) I'll really turn it loose to see what it can do.

I'm guessing that I was pulling about 30 on the trip, which included time running 65-80, and a fari amount of stop and go and creeping along (you gotta love 95 in the rain). I'm doing the same trip the end of the week, and will fill up before and after to get an accurate reading.

Also, the stereo is very impressive, especially with how quiet the car is otherwise.

Anyway, I was more impressed with the car on the trip than I expected to be, and actually like it more than I did before I took it! Still can't believe it only cost 16.5K, and think this will have to be a major hit once word gets out.

j42 · July 2004

so, i was gone on vacation and just got back. my tc was at a friends so i got to drive it home. i've had it since june 25, and it still surprises me how well it handles, and still feels like a car costing $10k more. love it

for the question about the flint mica paint

it looks kind of dark on a cloudy day or when its dirty, but when its sunny and clean, the paint sparkles. in the paint there are purplish and greenish and silver specks that add a really interesting look to the paint. i'm obsessed with keeping it clean.

and on another note, i haven't seen another one driving around southern ohio yet!

alphabass · July 2004

Thanks for the info, bamacar. I understand your point; I used the same reasoning initially. However, I will mostly be driving in the city, in which case the Prius will use electric only power (there is a nice little hardware hack to allow this, along with a power plug adaptor) and I will use no gas at all. I also would like to have a Nav system in my car, which the Prius already includes. Sorry about my poor explanation of my reasoning before. Which advantages does the tC have over the Prius? If anyone else has some information, please share it. Any and all advice would be great, as I need to objectively and logically decide what is best for me; this car must be servicable for about 10 years or so. Thanks!

tuffyleung · July 2004

If the future tc does have a 5 speed AT transmission, how will it affect the Mileage of the car? better than the present 4 speed or will get worse?

bamacar · July 2004

Should be better at least on the highway mileage. Camry for 2005 just went to the 5 speed AT and mileage went from 32/23 to 34/24 same as the Accord with the 5 speed AT.

rorr · July 2004

"...in which case the Prius will use electric only power (there is a nice little hardware hack to allow this, along with a power plug adaptor) and I will use no gas at all."

Really?

Couple of questions: since the batteries are designed to only give very short range when operating as electric only (hybrid design is for the electric system to SUPPLEMENT the gas engine, not take over), I'm curious about what kind of range you expect when operating on electric only.

Power plug adaptor: is electricity free where you live?

Warranty: any thought about what may happen to warranty with a hardware hack for electric only operation?

Battery durability: what happens to the life expectancy of your battery pack when they see a heavy constant demand?

Advantages of Tc over Prius? Ummmmm, fun to drive? Power?

Listen; I'm a fan of the Prius. My father owns one and I've driven it on several occasions. It excels for what it was designed to do; offer outstanding fuel economy in a car capable of carrying 4 people in reasonable comfort. But a 'sporty' car it ain't; unless you get a large thrill from continuously watching your instantaneous mileage gauge and keeping a running count of how many pennies you've saved since you left your driveway that morning....

bamacar · July 2004

tC advantages- The 17" aluminum wheels, height adjustable drivers seat, moonroof, mp3 stereo, better acceleration if you do use the gasoline engine, better handling (tire size/rear suspension), auto up/down on both driver and passenger windows, and as you pointed out the sportier appearance. Of course, there is also the fact that the wait should be much less also.

stickguy · July 2004

Forgot to mention that I found the clutch nice and like while creeping in traffic. After my trip, my left leg didn't feel like it did any work at all. Not at all stiff like some poster mentioned a while ago.

The Flint Mica is really neat. The sparkles in it pick up the light and surroundings, so it looks like a different color depending on when you see it. It never looks black to me, but does look expensive.

bushido · July 2004

Hi all,

My wife is all set to order her Black Cherry Pearl m/t tC and has come up with the following wish list of options:
Light Kit $250
Scion Security $469
Cargo Liner $104
Sport Pedal Covers $79
Auto Dimming Mirror $310
Floor Mats & Cargo Mat $145
AM/FM 6-Disc CD $395
Sport Muffler $525

I am dubious of the $525 muffler and $469 security system. I know the tack-on bin is where the dealership is making its margins, but can anyone comment on the value-added of her choices (please, beyond its a matter of personal choice)? I am questioning the value of the bells and whistles of the security system, although I suppose it is a comforting feature to have the interior lights come on while approaching the car at night. Does the standard keyless entry do that too? I don't think I'll talk her out of the muffler, but can anyone comment on just how throatier it makes the exhaust? Any performance bonus (i.e. backpressure)?

As I understand it, the $365 upgrade to the base head unit only gives you the multicolor faceplate and multi-disc changer, right? It's the same amp and EQ as is inside the standard head unit?

The cargo liner was picked because we will be hauling around our two dogs, so it seemed a smart investment beyond the piece of carpeting for the cargo area that comes with the floor mats.

She is also going to have the dealer upgrade the cloth upholstery to leather. Has anyone been through this and can comment? Do they just sew it on over the existing cloth? Wouldn't that change the clearances and fit and feel of the seating surfaces (beyond cloth versus leather)?

Thanks in advance,
Bushido

deuce · July 2004

When I bought my tC, they said that I could have them put leather seats in, but since the woman I was speaking with was reading from a sheet that had toyota matrix accessories I figured she didn't know what she was talking about. I'm also curious if anyone has had this same offer. I'm not really interested in having the leather put in, but I thought it was odd since I had never read anything about a leather interior.

307web · July 2004

Yes, they can have leather installed through a local leather upholstery shop. It does not come from Toyota.
You can even have leather installed in an Echo in this manner.
You can even have a higher-grade of leather installed that what is available from the factory.

deuce · July 2004

hmm, interesting

stickguy · July 2004

Can't comment on the leather, but you can have it put in a '75 Pinto if you want. I believe they take off the cloth cover, but don't hold me to that.

I passed on the security system. It already has the immobilized key, so it's pretty hard to steal, and if someone really want's to break in, they will do it anyway (who pays attention to alarms anymore?). Maybe if you park in a high crime area, which I don't. I believe they interior lights cmoe on when you hit the unlock button on the key.

I have never heard the muffler, but I assume it is mostly for looks (coffee can style?), will be louder with little or no increase in performance (just noise).

The 6 disk is the same unit, just with the changer and color options. Same amp and sound quality, and IMO way overpriced at $395. Plus, they ship w/o a radio, and install the one you want at the port, so literally the only difference is in the parts cost, which ain't near 4 bills. I also would never use the color change option.

The other stuff is all trim, so if she likes it, that's all that matters.

alphabass · July 2004

Electric only mode is safe to use with the batteries, and will not shorten their lifetime (they are warranted to 150k miles, anyway). The hardware hack is to make the US Prius equivalent to the UK and Japan version, which both have Electric Vehicle buttons on the dash. The US model has a blank, harness, and software for this option, yet for some strange reason does not ship with the button. Electricity is definitely not free, but with gas at nearly $2 a gallon it is still a better deal in the long run. I only live a couple of miles away from my daily destination, so range will not be a problem. Thanks for warning about the warranty; I will have to check that out. Any other comments would be great, I still love both cars! Thank you!

Scion tC

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