VW brand experience - good or bad?

600kgolfgt · May 2005

Given what the Europeans (especially) the Germans have continously brought to the table in terms of automotive innovation throughout history, mistakes are bound to be made when you've pioneered the lions share of automotive technology - since the 1800's - for example:

http://www.michelinchallengedesign.com/PDFs/Release%20Archives/HISTORY_2.pdf

All the Japanese had to do was let the Germans do the pioneering and make the mistakes, then simply emulate the technology (having the benefit of learning from the errors the Germans made). If the two countries switched positions, Germany would probably have the most reliable vehicles on the market, too.

bpeebles · May 2005

I fully agree with you.... it is FARRR more expensive to break new ground and develop a product than it is to just build what somone else has figured out.

This can be seen with computers too. IBM produced the first real "PC" -- everyone else just copied it. Even Microsoft purchased their "Internet Explorer" browser technology. (they did not invent "IE")...In fact, most of what Microsoft sells was purchased from other companies. (Spreadsheet, word-processor, disk-defragmenter...etc) Even the idea of Icons and a mouse was stolen from Apple!

Another fact you did not touch on is that Asian cars are DESIGNED to be pretty much ignored. German vehicles NEED to be treated with respect and maintained per reccomendations. In return, you get a more civilized vehicle with far better handling and creature-comforts.

I wonder how many people realize that the german company BOSCH actually INVENTED the sparkplug. To this very day, BOSCH sparkplugs are superiour to the others in many ways. From the copper core and platinum tips to the nickle finish, everyone else is just copying what BOSH has done for 30 years. BOSCH sparkplugs even use a special ceramic and has extra ribs on it to reduce hi-voltage leakage.

nippononly · May 2005

Of course, look at where IBM is in the PC industry today....oops, that's right, they're not in PCs any more! :-P

Innovation is great, but cars are still fundamentally transportation first. I would say leave it to luxury brands to innovate. Non-luxury brands need to focus on making reliable cars that are cheap to operate and not too expensive to buy in the first place. Once they get THAT part down pat, then they can afford to experiment a bit...

davem2001 · May 2005

IMO - all this "Germans innovate and the Japanese just copy"...might have been true 30, 40 years ago, but not so much today

rsholland · May 2005

Ditto that. The Japanese are as much innovators as the Germans these days. The difference being the Japanese care much more about keeping their customers happy via building reliable cars.

Bob

zillz · May 2005

You know zero people who have had unproblematic VW's? Well, I guess I don't count, because you don't know me. I have a 1996 Golf GL, 121,000 miles. I have had a few repairs , but only on items that wear out eventually on ANY car. I still have original front brakes,alternator, and clutch. Unlike the obvious perception, I think VW's are EXCELLENT cars. The only thing that I will admit to is this: When something does need repair or replacement on a VW, it is very expensive, especially for someone like me, who has no mechanical skills. I am in the 2 out of 10 people who would get a Jetta over a Camry anyday. I'm not knocking Toyota. Obviously they make an excellent product, but they're so..........bland!!!!!!!!!!

zillz · May 2005

The Golf is the second-best-selling car in the world.They just don't sell many in the US. American buyers like trunks. As far as not knowing anyone who has had a VW without problems, maybe I don't count because we don't know each other. My 1996 Golf is an EXCELLENT car. I have 121,000 miles and expect to get 100,000 more.It is unfortunate that most "Average Joes" rely on publications such as Consumer Reports to sway their car-buying decisions. Mathematically, CR's ratings are meaningless, and even the "worst" cars of today make cars 10 years ago look like Yugos. I am in the "niche" of happy VW owners. I just hope that VWOA's sales don't erode to the point of leaving us behind..........

nippononly · May 2005

"even the "worst" cars of today make cars 10 years ago look like Yugos"

but it just isn't true in my case. My late 80s and early 90s Hondas and Toyotas were just as reliable as they are today. And never needed replacement window switches or any other warranty work.

I am not saying all VWs suck, just that CR doesn't either. Rather it should be one of many data points you use. The VW coil pack problem was one thing, but power windows have been in cars for ages - nothing innovative there - and it was just plain old cost-cutting cheapness that gave VW problems there. If the surface is glossy (best interiors in the industry) but the substance underneath is riddled with holes, is the consumer getting the best value for their dollar?

I had a very interesting discussion with a co-worker last week, about her '99 Golf. She loves that car. She has had any many problems with it, both during warranty and at her own expense (windows, lights, wheel bearings, oil consumption, several occasions when it would not start and had to be towed, including two while it was still under warranty). Because she had a very responsive and competent dealer, the repairs have not bothered her and she is thinking of replacing it with an Audi. She has over 100K miles now. Her husband has a Toyota truck, and she chuckled and said that if he had had one tenth the problems she has had with her Golf, his truck would have been gone ages ago, because he has a lot less patience for those kinds of things than she does. Instead, his truck is pushing 200K miles with a minimum of fuss. Talk about an allegory for the market at large!

rsholland · May 2005

Mathematically, CR's ratings are meaningless,

Huh? CR reliability reports are based on reports what owners have found to be the case with their cars, be it good or bad. How is that meaningless? Sounds to me like your shooting the messenger, and ignoring the message.

Bob

kurtamaxxguy · May 2005

Edmunds posted an article today commenting - just an excerpt here - how VW dealers are fuming because VW America, focusing on profitability, is not supplying them cars they can sell or that customers want. VW, like nearly all Euro companies, blames the weak dollar for their troubles.

Can VW USA stay the course long enough to build the "premium" small car they think we USAers might want, given that Toyota and Honda are already building them at higher quality levels and at a lower cost?

Or do they truly believe the thrill of Euro performance overweighs poor quality and frequent repairs? Two other Euro companies went bust from this approach.

I should add my first car was a VW Super beetle and still have a soft spot for the brand, if it finally decides the USA market is worth its time and delivers to it a quality car again. Hopefully VW can climb out of the hole it has dug itself into.

bricknord · May 2005

I have a 1983 VW Pickup with 157k miles. Exhaust has been replaced. Brakes, timing belt, etc. that are routine. My battery died once, no fault of the VW, was just old. The only non-routine failure was the heater core. I also have a 1986 Golf diesel that is the most reliable car on the planet. I drive it 50 miles a day round trip to work. It has over 200k miles. A/C still works! I finally had to put a muffler on it a month or two ago. Pretty routine. I think I replaced a ball joint a year ago on the Golf. It is starting to drip a little oil from the main seal, but with well over 200k miles, I would not say this is ridiculous, and I can have that fixed at a European car shop for $300, they tell me. My wife had a 2000 New Beetle from new to about 70k miles until the lease ended. In that entire time, we had exactly two problems with the car ( 3.5 years ). One, the cruise control module failed one day, and was repaired under warranty. Two, the power window switch on the driver's door broke, maybe from our abuse, maybe not. Again, was repaired under warranty. The Beetle was wonderful BTW, it was a TDI ( diesel ) model and returned fuel economy around 45 mpg average combined during it's tenure on our fleet. A great car. On an anecdotal note, I know someone who was once the GM of an Acura dealer. We were talking about cars one day and he laughed when we talked about the supposed bulletproof Acuras. He indicated that it was pretty routine for Acura transmissions to fail around 60k miles, and that they saw such occurrenced weekly at his store. Never owned an Acura myself, so just making an observation based on what he indicated. Oh, almost forgot...owned a 1997 Jetta for quite a while, and had no major issues there ( gas engine ) either. So, I'd say my experience is very good with VW. I owned one Honda, a Civic a while back, I think the car was a 1983 or 1984, so admittedly a while ago. One day, I got up, started to drive my girlfriend to work, and the engine seized out of the blue. I had maintained the car well and was picky about maintenance actually. Plenty of oil in the car. The mechanics said something internal went haywire and a cylinder liner moved and a piston seized and all kinds of stuff went kaboing. Totally random occurrence, and they could find no evidence that it was related to lack of maintenance in any way. My mother owned a Subaru that overheated one day when it suffered a coolant loss of some type. Problem was, no warning light ever came on of any sort on the dash, no telltale gauge, nothing. The car just finally overheated to the point where it stopped running because the head warped and compression was lost. I was in the car when it happened and can vouch that there was no warning at all, the car just quit running, we were stranded. The dealer investigated and found that there was a fault in coolant lamp warning circuit hence no warning when the car overheated and mom drove merrily along until the car died. Oh, and yeah, there was the 1985 Civic Wagon my family parents owned, that had a severe issue when the crank sheared due to a casting flaw driving normally in downtown Philadelphia one day when my mother was in grad school working on her doctorate. The Honda dealer verified that it was a manufacturing defect after tearing the engine down, but since the car was up around 90k miles or so and out of warranty, tough, and mom had to rebuild the engine on her dime. My family has also owned another Honda and a two Toyotas that were very good and on the level of my experience with VW. My point being, in my experience and that of my immediate family, the VWs probably have at least as good if not significantly better track record, Consumer Reports not withstanding. FWIW. Just my 2c.

bricknord · May 2005

sorry, should proofread better! of course my parents are in my family. sorry for the stupid " family parents" sentence in previous post. had been a long day with work and all so excuse my less than stellar oratory. peace.

nippononly · May 2005

now you have made me curious - what do VW dealers want that VWoA is not delivering? I will have to go see. Are we talking hypothetical models, or merely that the build mix is currently wrong for what they want to be selling?

I see that VW has the $239/mo lease deal already (with quite a bit of money down) for the 2.5. I wonder if it is helping. Sales do not seem to have trended upwards since the 2.5 was introduced, but it has only been a couple of months I guess. I have seen two on the street now.

zillz · May 2005

Based on my anectdotal experience with VW's , I AM shooting the messenger to a point, because I think CR is unfair to VW. However, the owners they survey are made up of a very minute percentage of the actual numbers of car owners out there. They go back, how far, 7 years? In that time, probably 2 million new Volkswagens were registered. Out of the 2 million, CR may survey 10,000 VW owners that span that period of 7 years. Just because 15% or 20% of those 10,000 responses had, say, an "electrical " problem, it doesn't mean that 15-20% of the other 1,990,000 VW owners would experience the same problems. Secondly, their "Problems PER 100 Cars" chart is a joke. The "Industry Average" is something like 117 problems per 100 cars. VW is near the bottom of the list with something like, 141 problems per 100 cars.
A VW will, in other words, have 24 more problems per 100 cars than one considered to be "average." All this means is that someone would have to buy 4 Volkswagens to get one more problem than an "average car." So what? Unfortunately, many people regard CR as Gospel, and it has really hurt VW in the past few years.

rl81 · May 2005

So, what exatly did the Japanese invent in terms of new car technology...This is not really sarkastic or so, I just can't think of anything. SO just so we settle this, where do Toyota, Honda and co. invent because according to you two they must have something to show???

No question their manufacturing is awesome...but invention :confuse:
- double turbo, as in one small one big in the same row working together and no it's not a twin turbo(BMW 535d)
- iDrive (like it or not a lot of them are copying it: Acura, Audi, Infinity...)
- laser guided cruise control (first seen on MB S-Class???)
- head up display (this was first on the Corvette)
- movable lights (this was Lexus...)
- well okay this doesn't apply to the US so much, but Diesel technology...only Europe
- Hybrid, I give that to Toyota...

I can really just recall these...so anyone???

nippononly · May 2005

from the Edmunds news article today:

"VW executives in Germany said the weak dollar meant America was not the best market for a European carmaker. VW has made a conscious decision to ship fewer cars to North America and focus on more profitable parts of the world"

This kinda sounds like bull, doesn't it? Not only do they sell the $25K Audi A3 here with way more equipment at the same price AND the turbo 2.0, and stocking manual shifts in droves by the way (dealers are complaining that VW is only sending them loaded Jetta automatics, in order to maximize profit), but BMW has barely raised the price of the new 3-series despite loading on a WHOPPING load of additional standard equipment on the new model.

And yet, every indication is that the new Passat due here in a few months is also going to climb in price by a good 20-25%.

Seems like it is just VW that can't sell cars profitably in America. Why is that? And what a change in attitiude on their part, when just a few weeks ago they were talking about how the new Jetta would be the first part of a concerted effort to turn things around and stop the bleeding for VWoA. Jetta sales must be way off what they were hoping.

zillz · May 2005

The Jetta V hasn't been out long enough to assess what the sales will be like, but it is true that the only ones you see are the high-priced (close to Audi, yes) ones. Once the "Value Editions" priced at 18-19K come, you'll see more sales, but a good portion of enthusiasts are disappointed because they think the new Jetta looks too much like a Toyota Corolla, so I think we'll see a shift to older family people as buyers. The Passat is supposed to be priced similarly to the outgoing model, but as with the Jetta, you'll probably see the higher-priced ones first. Because of the fact that VW lost a billion.2 last year here, it makes sense to ship less cars to dealers. While I agree that 26K is too much money to pay for a Jetta, it is more profitable to sell those models.They can set their goals to a more realistic, attainable level here, and save their [non-permissible content removed] at the same time. BUT...........Since the Jetta has moved upscale, this leaves a hole for the twentysomething enthusiasts, unless the Golf V will fill that void. New Beetle convertible sales should also pick up as we approach summer. A question that burns in my mind that nobody has answered is this: I try to remain optimistic, but if VW were to eventually fail here, is Audi a seperate enough entity to keep selling cars in the US? I am an admitted hardcore VW "fanboy."
Well, "fan 45-year-old." If the alarmist prophets over in the Car Lounge are correct and VW eventually pulls out of the US market, I have 3 plans: A) Attempt to import one, anyway,

Start driving Audis (provided they don't go, too), or C) retire in Mexico, which would be nice since you can see the sun there more than 4 days out of a month.
(I live in Wisconsin. Florida's license plates say: THE SUNSHINE STATE. Wisconsin's should say, THE OVERCAST STATE.)

600kgolfgt · May 2005

Actually, hybrid vehicles were pioneered in the U.S. by Thomas Alva Edison and others at the turn of the century (late 1800's - Early 1900's):

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/collection/event.php?id=3456880&lid=1

600kgolfgt · May 2005

Also, most fuel injection systems today are either Bosch or licensed from Bosch...

600kgolfgt · May 2005

I'd say the electric/hydraulic steering and direct fuel injection are two major German innovations that the Japanese are starting to incorporate into their own vehicles. So I'd still say the Germans have the lions share of innovations - even today

600kgolfgt · May 2005

My dealership just took delivery of a few "Value Priced" $18-19K models (of course the dealership add-ons made the price more like $20-21K).

bricknord · May 2005

Yes, new Jetta sales ARE way off what was expected. From VW's point of view, it is their most volume seller, with a very loyal following, and great popularity in the US market. When a major and much awaited redesign of your volume leader comes out only once every 6 or 7 years, it is a huge deal.

The response given these circumstances has been very lukewarm at best. I sell Audis at a decent sized VW-Audi store. I've been observing new Jetta sales. Very, very slow. A few are rolling out the door, but nowhere near what was anticipated internally. The main reaction seems to be like this: the real traditional VW fans think the car has become too Japanese and the majority of them don't like the new body style and several other issues. A few conquest buyers like it and are buying it, but not many. A very few VW fans are so loyal they are buying it anyway although they aren't crazy about the looks. Also, there are other issues, for instance, when you shut the door now, you hear a "BOING", it sounds very tinny compared to the outgoing model. The sheetmetal seems thinner and more like a cheap car. Myself ( long time VW owner of about a dozen or so ) and many others at our dealership along with a significant number of clients agree very much with the Edmunds review that something has been lost in translation with this car, the "VW-ness" has been distilled out.

At least in my area, the general reaction is one of disappointment. Kind of like when you read a good book, then go to the movie and are let down. It is a great car on paper, and the interior is nice, but something is missing. The gaudy chrome front end does not help. It would look better on a larger car, perhaps, but I've seen photoshops of the car with a body-color nose and the reaction is much more positive.

If anything, the market on the old Jettas shot up when the new one came out as folks scrambled to get those while they could. This move upscale with the Jetta is very calculated by VW, and by early results ( 2 months on market almost now ) if I was VW I would be concerned. However, the new Passat, which I think will be a lot better car, is on the horizon and should help.

mariner7 · May 2005

I don't know if it's possible to pinpoint national origin of technology innovations today. Case in point: commercial F1 style gearbox first appeared in German cars. But long before that, it appeared first in a Ferrari F1 car. So is it an Italian invention? Who knows, maybe, maybe not!

Commercially Honda pioneered the use of variable valve timing. But maybe it was used long before that in F1.

A lot of engine innovations originate in F1, which is dominated by Europeans, so you'd expect many of these innovations have European origin. But the Japanese are well represented in F1 by Honda and Toyota. Right now Honda reputedly makes the most powerful F1 engine, followed by Renault and Ferrari.

rsholland · May 2005

Well, Honda back in the 1960s had a 5-cylinder 125cc DOHC GP racing motorcycle and in the '80s a 500cc motorcycle with oval cylinders. I'm sure there are other inventions too, but that's besides the point. Probably the biggest invention that the Japanese made is to take modern automotive advancesregardless of where they came fromand make them reliable and useful for the consumer. That's something the Germans have not done.

Great ideas, that don't work properly or reliably, are useless, and if anything are counterproductive. The Germans (and other Europeans too) have shot themselves in the foot many times over by releasing "Beta" versions of great ideas. I don't know about you, but I've been a guinea pig with Euro cars several times over before I got smart and gave up on them. My ownership experience with German and Swedish cars was pure hell. Frankly I could care less who "invented" something. I just want it to workproperly and reliably.

Bob

carlisimo · May 2005

Technical innovation is usually reserved for high-price brands. That means some German brands, but not VW... I think posts about that would fit better in the thread about the reliability of all the German brands as a whole. It's a little fuzzy now that VW owns Audi, but I don't think VW as an economy car maker had much time and money for innovation. Economy cars are best served by innovations such as the Toyota Production System...

Anyway I saw a new Jetta in person and I think it looks much better in person. It's awesome! But yeah, the reliability thing still scares me. I know a lot of people here are saying that CR is unfair to VW, but there are just so many real-life stories that make CR's reports sound accurate. If I include people who've written about their experiences in these forums, I still have to say that more than half the VW owners I know have had problems with theirs. And it's never just one problem, but many.

Congrats on having good experiences; kill the people who've had bad ones (car "accident" due to system failure?), and I won't be able to make the same argument.

rsholland · May 2005

It is good looking even if it looks like a new 2006 Buick Lucerne from the rear.

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/buick/lucerne/100487860/photos.html?tid=edmunds.f.revie- w.leftsidenav..2.Buick*

It's also very Japanese looking too. Hmmm... Is VW is now trying to copy the Japanese?

I'm sure it will be the best Jetta to date. Still, I'd take a several year wait-and-see before thinking about buying one.

Bob

nippononly · May 2005

I don't think you have to worry about Audi, if VW pulls out of America. Audi has always been pretty profitable here, from what I can tell, and has never had the huge peaks and valleys that VW has (although it did have a broader, less deep valley back in the late 80s/early 90s).

As for Jetta V, not only does its move upmarket leave a big hole for VW fans looking in the $18-20K range, it kind of strands the Beetle as the glaringly low end VW model. But no worries - I am sure if this model even makes it to a gen II, it will increase 25% in price under the new "VW plan".

I have seen articles listing the expected price of a loaded next-gen Passat as being over $35K. To me, that says base price won't be much less than $26-27K. For a Passat?

I appreciate that VW is trying to increase profits to get VWoA out of the red, and that they are willing to sacrifice sales and become more of a niche brand if that is what it takes to accomplish that purpose, but they should remember you do have to sell SOME cars, or there will be NO profit!

bricknord: I know a couple of people who like VWs, one recently had a Golf for several years, and they both seem to agree that the new Jetta "grew up a little too much". Everyone seems to agree it looks very much like a Corolla. Although one or two folks have mentioned they like the chrome on the front - go figure! I am personally not surprised that sales have been lukewarm.

perna · May 2005

The reason VW is losing has little to do with Consumer Reports. It has everything to do with the very real experiences of people like me who bought a VW car and regret every tick spent in the service department.

Their cars are beautiful, fun to drive, and complete turds on wheels. Everything electrical failed in my Jetta at least once.

What's funny is you may think that my experience is "anecdotal" (which it is), but how anecdotal is it, really? Do you read the Toyota forums full of people with nothing but vitriol in their hearts towards that brand of car? No? Think about it.

rsholland · May 2005

I agree that CR is not the main reason VW is losing groundbut it is a reason. They report the problems you have experienced. Having said that, people DO read CR, and believe in their ratings, whether they're accurate or not. A poor rating in CR is not something any car maker wants to have, because they will lose sales as a result. Getting that same poor rating year in and year out will take its toll, for sure.

Bob

mariner7 · May 2005

W8, W12, anyone? 250 mph Veyron? Ferrari wannabe Lamboghini? Phaeton?

If VW didn't sink billions into these projects, it could compete better with the Civics and Accords of the world!

I think the German equivalent of AAA gave top reliability ratings to Japanese makes. German makes, including VW, receive middling to poor ratings. That was in Automobile issue a few months back.

600kgolfgt · May 2005

> If VW didn't sink billions into these projects, it could compete better with the Civics and Accords of the world!

I'm inclined to agree with you... :shades:

davem2001 · May 2005

I've said many times, I think VW is making a mistake trying to move upmarket too far, too fast....
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but when I think VW, I expect an MSRP in the Toyota/Honda or Chevy/Ford price range, not BMW/Mercedes/Lexus territory like the Toureg, Phaeton, and the new Passat

What does VW have Audi for, if they are going to move the VWs into that price range?

210delray · May 2005

We have VW, Subaru, and even Mazda trying to become "premium" brands. What gives? To me, all of them should be bargain basement cars, like Chevy and Ford.

nippononly · May 2005

I was reading the last few posts and the salesman who I drove the new A3 with called! I am thinking if I end up looking seriously at one of these, I want to check out the Golf before pulling the trigger. Maybe by then, this thread will have become so depressing about VW's outlook, I will toss the whole idea! Heck, maybe they will have pulled out of North America by then, to read some of the posts here...

The Golf V would have to be at least $2500 cheaper than a comparably equipped Jetta for me to consider it. Alas, I fear it won't be. Maybe dealers will be discounting because of enjoying hugely increased sales on the new Passat.... :-P

Dovetailing on what I wrote earlier, I do wonder what will become of the New Beetle. Gen 2? No gen 2? Just make the same car for a decade?

Maybe VW could sell some of its ridiculous exotic brands and share the proceeds with VWoA if it is so interested in "stopping the bleeding". Maybe then it could stop stiffing us on manual shift base models, and put a less expensive model or two in the North American mix.

davem2001 · May 2005

Good point about Subaru, too...but they aren't moving upscale nearly as far as VW...I think the top Tribeca is around $38-40K...high, but not quite in Toureg or Phaeton territory.

Also, in Subaru's case, they don't already have another "upscale" brand, like VW has with Audi. Just IMO, VW should be maybe $30K, $40K max....leave anything higher than that to Audi...

davem2001 · May 2005

Slightly off topic, but....did you drive the A3? Did it have the DSG trans? If so, I'm curious how you liked it?

nippononly · May 2005

I drove the manual, and it was sweet for a $25K car. Of course, if I could have the Golf with the 2.0T, I would get four doors and a longer warranty on top of it. But I don't know that they will make it available that way.

In Europe, they have a 4-door GTI. We won't get that here, because it would compete directly with the A3 (being pretty much the exact same car). So I expect we will only get Golfs with the 2.5 here, when Golf V arrives.

irnmdn · May 2005

I wonder how many people realize that the german company BOSCH actually INVENTED the sparkplug. To this very day, BOSCH sparkplugs are superiour to the others in many ways. From the copper core and platinum tips to the nickle finish, everyone else is just copying what BOSH has done for 30 years. BOSCH sparkplugs even use a special ceramic and has extra ribs on it to reduce hi-voltage leakage.
Didn't Bosch supply the infamous coilpacks for VW/Audi?

600kgolfgt · May 2005

Toyota is recalling 770,000 trucks and SUVs for steering-related problems:

http://cars.com/go/news/Story.jsp?section=news&story=051705storycAP&subject=recent&referer- =&aff=national

And they are also getting complaints about their hybrid Prius:

http://cars.com/go/news/Story.jsp?section=news&story=051705storyaAP&subject=recent&referer- =&aff=national

You don't see them getting killed in the media. God forbid if VW had these problems - they would be basically run out of this country on a rail... :mad:

210delray · May 2005

The Toyota recall even received the attention of our local "crime, crashes, and corruption" TV news program, as did the big GM recalls of the last couple of weeks.

And complaints don't necessarily mean anything in the end -- look within the VW/Audi house on the Audi 5000 "sudden acceleration" brouhaha of the late 80s as probably the most striking example.

zillz · May 2005

I didn't take the time to read the news stories, but you are soooooo right about what would happen if VW had experienced this.The media would kick them while they're down. Then again, I guess I'm what European car manufacturers call the "perfect customer." That is, my passion for a car brand supercedes a few electrical glitches, which, by the way, I've never had. The fact is, there will always be those who say that VW's are unreliable junk heaps. What people don't realize is that a VW's longevity can equal a Toyota easily, provided proper care is implemented. I've seen many VW's with well over 200K miles, even 300K.
What's ironic, and that I forgot to mention above, is that Consumer Reports will classify a VW that has had a coilpack and window regulator failure as having twice as many problems as another brand whose sole problem was a blown engine at 80K miles. I'm not knocking the Japanese; as a whole they obviously make excellent cars, but Volkswagens are perceived to be much worse than they actually are. For example, VW's are "notorious" for electrical problems, but Hondas, at least in my part of the country, have rust problems. Now when I say that, I usually get a reply that goes something like, "Maybe 20 years ago, dude, but not now." I invite anyone to come to Wisconsin. About every third Civic and Accord I see, including models as new as about 2002, has at least the beginnings of rust in the wheelwells of the rear quarter. To me, $3000 of body work negates a lack of "electrical" problems...............

anonymousposts · May 2005

the previous generation Jetta for a while. Even considered trading my 99 Accord EX for a 2000 Jetta 1.8T until the salesman knocked my Accord while calling the Jetta a "premium" car. At the time I could get an EX V6 Accord Coupe for what they wanted for the Jetta and that's what I did a few months later.

The new Jetta doesn't ring my bell like the last one immediately did. But VW has sent me a $50 Home Depot card certificate for taking a test drive of any 2005.5 Jetta. I will report my observations next week.

bpeebles · May 2005

The coil-packs that I have inspected did not have a BOSCH name on them. I suspect that BOSCH may have DESIGNED the coil-packs... but when farmed out to the low-bidder to build them using inferiour components made them fail.

The EXACT SAME DESIGN is still used (with better MFG practices) and they are working just fine.

chrisducati · May 2005

13 complaints on the Prius. Now why do they get action after only 13 people complain. Try that with GM or VW. I bet thousands would be needed to get any reaction...

I personally know six people that have VW's None of them have been problem free. The worst is a poor friend of mine whos jetta has had three... count um "3" engines under warranty. That plus all the other problems it has had make her ready to bite nails. If the CEO of VW was standing next to her I bet she would punch him dead in the face. All the good stories in the world will never take the bad taste out of her mouth. :lemon:

carlisimo · May 2005

My friends have had similar stories. Not a dead coilpack that left them stranded once upon a time, but recurring issues. Some of them the kind that leave you stranded, others the kind that get you a fix-it-ticket for one of your lights. In that sense, the way CR counts problems is pretty valid.

I'd get really upset over an engine or tranny failure, but given time, I'd forgive the car. If I had to forgive the car for minor problems every three months... well I wouldn't.

merc1 · May 2005

If VW didn't sink billions into these projects, it could compete better with the Civics and Accords of the world!

Bingo!

We were having this same discussion in the 2006 Passat thread where price is also coming up. My take is that if VW wants to go upscale then they'll have to accept lower sales volumes. That said I think VW needs to forget about going upscale. What they need to do is give their cars that classic VW formula. Better styling and a more connected driving experience than a comparably priced American or Japanese cars. This is what made the previous Jetta and especially Passat popular. If the Passat is a 35-38K car it isn't going to sell enough units to pull VWoA out of the read, imo.

Why VW made the Phaeton is beyond me, though I think the car itself is brilliant and defines what a luxury car is. They really thought nobody would cross shop it with the A8. Wrong.

M

nippononly · May 2005

from lunch, and on the way back I was behind a Phaeton W12 at a light. What a privilege for me - they sold about what, 100 of these nationwide? Anyway, I can instantly see why this car is failing in the marketplace - it has no more visual distinction than a $22K Jetta 2.5, and it sells for what, about $90 grand?

If I were going to spend the enormous bucks on a 12-cylinder car, I am sure I would look for something that looks snappier than this (and there are a few good choices out there, aren't there?!).

nippononly · June 2005

in May were down 42% from a year ago, despite having the brand new, much-hyped Jetta 2.5 to sell. Whoops. Those are Mitsubishi numbers. Could Jetta '05.5 be overpriced? Ummmmm........

Mentioned here:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0506/02/A01-201462.htm

at the very end.

jeffyscott · June 2005

I understand VW sales were bad but the link is to story titled "GM, Ford cut production"

I know you are mostly referring the the prices of the optioned up versions...But we got our Jetta Value Edition with ATX and ESP for about $50 under invoice (just under $19,000). But with these poor sales, perhaps we should have waited for some better incentives to be put in place.

nippononly · June 2005

well, give them a couple more months like that, and you can bet there will suddenly be more money on the table for Jetta buyers.

I wonder what will happen with Passat sales if it also rises in price by such a large amount. I certainly don't think the new Golf and GTI are going to do much for the overall sales numbers - they have been tiny contributors in the past. And then nothing will be new at VW for ANOTHER three years, unless they decide to do "New Beetle, MkII". The minivan that may or may not be coming for 2007 will probably do little for the bottom line - VW vans have never been big sellers.

VW brand experience - good or bad?

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