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Ford Super duty - Continued III
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Comments
I purchased the v-10 but was wondering how the PSD buyers justified the extra $3,400 cost over the v-10. If you use an average of 12 mpg for the v-10 and an average of 16 mpg for the PSD and a cost of $1.16 per gal. I came up with the following.
If you drive 1,000 per month the fuel savings would be 24.16 per month. The monthly payment would be an extra 82.21 on 3,400 @7.5% for 48 mos.
The total extra cost would be 3,946 including interest. You would also have extra cost on insurance and on personal property taxes.
If you drive 12,000 a year it would take you 13.5 years to recoup the 3,946.
If you invested the 3400 in a mutual fund that returned 15%, you would have 5,946 after 4 yrs, over 22,000 in 13.5 yrs. I realize that if you sold in 4 yrs you would recoup from 40-45% of your investment-1,360 to 1530.
I have not towed with mine yet but according to carterw @ #349 the v-10 does quite well. So why not put that extra money on retirement or another toy such as an atv,pwc, or motorcycle.
Dave
hkeith I have to agree with dave 86 their are no guarantees in mutual funds, Also most trucks with a PSD get better than 16 mpg when empty, more like about 16mpg and from what I have heard that doesnt change much when loaded.
I dont know about where some of you are located but here in So Cal gas prices are running about $1.55 and diesel fuel is about $1.35 so that helps with the extra cost.
My truck is a F350 XLT CC DRW 4X4 PSD 172 with every bell and whistle i could get except the lariat and two tone paint for $36.000 not counting tax and license. This was pretty good compered to other dealers prices.
John
John
Crazyelvis... fuel's been nailing us on this coast as well. but half the increase is due to taxes, the other, "imagined" shortages.
on the psd, v10 kick. these are expensive trucks any way you fly it. the psd is more $$$ & if you're purchasing to save $$$ over the long haul it will probably be a very long haul indeed. you purchase a psd because you really do need it. it's definitely warranted if your primary usage dictates hauling loads that are at or near GCWR. it's my personal belief that few people really need the psd (remember that there's not that great a diff between max torque ratings (15%)). if you're purchasing it for this reason alone, don't (just go for steep hills a little "easier" with big loads). the reasons we purchased the psd were multiple in nature. and of course, here they are: 1) pulling near GCWR for 75% of usage with 50% of that usage in unknown terrain 2) a lot more range while towing (will need in-bed addt'l fuel tank, though) 3) fuel is much less volatile (than gas in an in-bed addt'l fuel tank) 4) engine ought to be more reliable operating near design GCWR limits over extended periods of time. we're certainly not stating that the v10 wouldn't work under these conditions & work quite well (as has been indicated via many posts). it's just that diesel's are designed from the get-go to pull, pull, pull & because this is the case they're more apt to do a better job overall having at "it"... remember that big tractor rigs don't have diesel's for nothin'. they're expensive. they're noisy. they stink up the place. and there has to be a reason for "putting up" with all this. so purchase what YOU need, not what someone else THINKS you need. so unless you've won the lotto, examine those needs very carefully & in a practical, unbiased manner. and if you don't know something in regard to this very important decision making process DON'T be stupid by NOT asking (however; do NOT ask a salesperson because they are by nature, biased)! as Bruno mentioned sometime back, this is probably the 2nd most expensive item you will ever purchase (regardless of which "flavor"... v10 or psd).
oh, the mats. they're hot! (been that route). carpet's a pain to keep clean, though; especially if it's going to be a working beast. and if you're purchasing the psd expect a lot more noise from the thing to get into the cab with rubber floor matting (our guess is that Ford deletes more than just the carpet... some soundproofing stuff goes out-the-window along with it). we're going with carpet and aftermarket mats of some kind.
11/15 scheduled 11/29 eta... still waiting. but getting closer... CLOSER!
Notice that (as dave86 in post #362) I didn't say there weren't any mutual funds that haven't averaged 15% over the past several years. I know there are many that have. I said that there is no mutual fund that is GUARANTEED to return 15% annually. The point I was making to hkeith was that his example is flawed; if money saved from buying a V10 instead of a PSD is invested in a mutual fund, there is absolutely no guarantee that that money will grow at 15 or any other percent, regardless of any fund's past performance. You could end up even losing principal. Now, if he had said take the savings and invest it in treasury bonds or CDs...
Dave
As far as price, it seems the average is around $500 over invoice which is a fair price for both consumer and dealer.. This is still several thousand less than MSRP. Remember, when ordering a truck, the dealership, (not the salesman) will automatically make 3% profit via holdback. Any reputable dealer can stay in business if they get and additional 3% over invoice for every car on the lot, for a total of about 6% on every car.
Some folks will get $100 over invoice etc, others who get prices 'under invoice' usually have other factors in play such as factory->dealer and factory->consumer rebates/incentives.
As far as waiting for the 2001 model, the reason I'm buying a new truck, is because late model used trucks are so expensive.. It seems that trucks in general, have high resale values. I bet this will be true with SD's too. So, getting a y2k truck in May of 2000 (worst case for you) shouldn't be an issue.
Maybe you should use up some frequent flyer miles and take a trip to Gator ford in Flordia. j/k.
I ordered my 99 through Five Star Ford in Scottsdale AZ because they had the best price of the dozen or so dealers that I checked. But in my opinion, their service stinks. They tried to fleece about an extra thousand dollars out of me at the signing even though I had a Zerox copy of our agreement signed by the sales manager when I placed the order. I had an "Out The Door" price and they said they couldn't sell it that cheap. It took about three hours to make the sale final because of them try to squeeze extra money out of me. It should have taken less than an hour. They also didn't return my calls, or give me ANY information about the status of my truck. Through information I used from this site, I knew it was coming, but they didn't have a clue when it would get here. I will never buy another vehicle from them no matter how cheap they are. From what I have read about Gator Ford, I wouldn't shop there either. I think when people get bad service from their dealer, they should post it so others can be warned.
I mentioned Gator Ford as a joke to a desperate person who's looking for a dealer that has a decent SD allotment.. If the choice came down to good sales service, but waiting 6 months for a truck, vs. crappy sales service but getting the truck quickly, I'm not sure which I would choose..
bess- I will be visiting my son in cary, nc this weekend, so if you see a cc lariat, dk toreador red/black from va it will probably be me. it will give me a chance to check out highway milage.
chrispal- using your figues on fuel savings, you are not breaking even on cash flow for 5 yrs. This is not considering the extra sales tax on purchase, insurance, pp tax, extra cost of oil changes. if you deduct these items from your extra resale value at the end of 5 years i don't believe you will have a lot left over. For the people that don' like mutual funds-$69.72 invested @5% computed qtr for 5 yrs will be worth $4,988.
the trailer life article is using 99 models. the 2000 v-10 has a good performance increase.
It is hard to justify the cost of a new truck no matter which engine you get. If you buy a 30,000 truck and finance 25,000 for 4 years the total cost including interest(7.5%} will be 34,014. If you are self-employed and assume you take this money off your top income tax bracket, you will have to earn 66,695 in va to end up with the 34,014 after taxes. That is a lot of hard work. I
had enough money 3 yrs ago to buy a truck but i decided to buy a rental property instead. I will use the rental income to pay for the truck. I look at it as if someone else is buying my truck.
even while i am using the cash on the truck the property is increasing in value 4-5% a year. this is equal to what the people who are investing in cd,s are getting. The cd income is taxable every year, whereas the appreciation in the rental won't be taxed unless i sell it. Then it will be at lower capital gain rates. The us gov. will also contribute to my exp when business milage is written off. You end up with more of your rental income compared to wages because you don't pay SS or self-emp tax on rental income. Also depreciation offsets some of the rental income.
Still VERY VERY happy with the BEAST!! alomost 2000 miles on it already and purring like a kitten.
Anyway, my question is, since I evidently have the Dora or order confirmation, does this mean that my dealer did not have any alotment problems and that I will hopefuly avoid the 6-8 month v10 lariat wait?
Is the alotment issue still a factor even though the order has been confirmed by Ford?
The fleet rep seems pretty confident it will be about at 10 week wait.
When I call the VOPC number I get "Clean and unscheduled" , but it at least recognizes that my order exists.
I am so concerned about the 6 - 8 month wait I have heard about, I have considered changing my order to the 5.4.
Your feedback Pleeeze...
Anyway, my question is, since I evidently have the Dora or order confirmation, does this mean that my dealer did not have any alotment problems and that I will hopefuly avoid the 6-8 month v10 lariat wait?
Is the alotment issue still a factor even though the order has been confirmed by Ford?
The fleet rep seems pretty confident it will be about at 10 week wait.
When I call the VOPC number I get "Clean and unscheduled" , but it at least recognizes that my order exists.
I am so concerned about the 6 - 8 month wait I have heard about, I have considered changing my order to the 5.4.
Your feedback Pleeeze...
well i called the vopc today and it came up my truck will be built the week of nov-27 and est time of arrival dec-6.not to bad only 3 months of wait, when i ordered my 96 f350 back in 96 they told me a 12-20 week wait because the trucks where hard to come by, i got my f350 in 6 weeks. oh well i will just have to wait and see what happens.
The Ford F-Series Light Duty finished first in the fullsize pickup category. The Dodge Ram took 2nd and the Superduty took 3rd. The Ford Ranger took 3rd in the compact pickup category, 3rd in compact SUV with the Explorer and 3rd in the fullsize SUV with the Expedition. The Mazda B-series finished 2nd in compact pickups.
In addition to the Ram ranking, Dodge ranked first in compact pickups with the Dakota and 2nd in compact SUV with the Durango.
The Chevy Tahoe was the only GM product in any category finishing 2nd in fullsize SUVs.
Toyota didn't have any pickups in the top three, but they did quite well in the SUV with the RAV4 ranking 3rd in minis, the 4Runner ranking 1st in compacts and the Land Cruiser ranking 1st in fullsize. Lexus took a 1st and 3rd in the Luxury SUV category.
The only other vehicles ranked was a 1st in the mini-SUV by the Honda CR-V, a second in the same category by the Subaru Forester, and a 2nd by the Infiniti QX4 in the Luxury SUV category.
The magazine also had some "green" comments about the Excursion. They said that it will be classified as a LEV (Low Emissions Vehicle) with 45% lower emissions than required. 20% of it's parts are recyled and 85% of the truck can be recylcled. In their test drive, they got 18.1mpg with the diesel on flat hwy.
The fact that the VOPC validates your order shows that the factory does indeed have your order and a DORA exists. Now go to your dealer and have him show you their latest weekly allotment report. Make him play his hand!
and it took only 6 weeks to arrive. I live in
Corpus Christi, Tx. For those of you who are
concerned about fuel economy or power from the
5.4L, I am getting about 14-15 mpg and the engine
has plenty of power {more than my 97 460 V8} and
the engine is not yet broken in.
One option I ordered was the heavy duty suspension package which has heavy service front
springs. The truck sits perfectly level instead
of all the other SD that sag in the front. F-350
trucks are even worse because of the higher capacity rear springs.
6/24 and you have no truck ....and you aren't scheduled yet??? That SUCKS.....Seems to me something is WRONG! I might think about going somewhere else....especially the guy with the 5/27 order who is unschedled.....WOW!!!
I posted the JD study in a two other topics. One response from a Chevy owner (it could have been him) was that the study was obviously using bad info since there is no credibility behind any quality study that ranks Dodge ahead of Chevy. Of course, that person went on to say that they take the "best resale" value claim more seriously. I couldn't help but mention that I believe (and I could be wrong) that the fine print on that claim is that it is based on a JD Power's study....you know, the guys with no credibility.
Sorry to hear about the extra week lewac....like you said, must be something wrong on the line....or they just got behind or something....who knows ... maybe it will slip in a little sooner for ya....
I do like the diff. between my old 97 150 flareside bed and the one on the SD.....regular styleside bed..... it is just a little wider and easier for me to load a sign board into....does anyone know if there is such a thing as a pop in...and pop out cleat dohickey for the four holes on top of the side bed rails. I would like to be able to pop one in the hole when I carry a ladder so I can put a bungee cord between the cleat and the ladder....so the ladder won't slide....I know there are cleat like handles on the bed...but I have a bed rug installd and don't want to cut out part of the bedrug to access them.....plus it would be alot better to have the bungee tiedown up on top of the rails.....just wondering....thanks for any info out there!!
Chevrolet whipped that SD, whats the story on that one? Is it bunk or what?
I dont see any reason not to have a vin no, right after its orderd
To D Lake