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Much consternation about this review from the Infiniti/Acura fans!
LIY
I called my salesman (in Houston) a week (67 mi) after I bought and told him that I wanted to return it because I was dissatisfied due to the size. He suggested waiting for the M and they "would see what we can work out".
Well, Tuesday he offered me $28,500 for my G with 1600 miles on it. His M price is MSRP period. In addition he says in a few months they will tack-on another 3%.
My questions:
1)Is a depreciation of $6,710 reasonable for 60 days/1600 mi or should I shop other dealers?
2)Would you recommend waiting a few months for a drop in MSRP?
3)Do you think MSRP+3% is likely in a few months?
I retired last year and since this could be my last car I would like it to be satisfying (although the G is very close). Your answers and suggested would be appreciated!
Here in PA they seem to be similarly unmovable off MSRP FWIW.
As for your G, the old adage that a new car depreciates the moment you drive off it off the lot, has reared its ugly head. The $6700+ you're taking as a loss seems about right. I agree with the other poster that you'd be better off selling the car yourself. That way you'll recover some of this depreciation.
As the same time, however, Honda/Acura have just increased their prices. As the dollar sinks and raw materials prices soar, foreign cars are going to be increasingly expensive in this country. Here comes inflation. Get 'em now while they're cheap.
I don't agree that the M35/45 will be selling for near invoice in a few months. Depends on demand. Since the car's been getting rave reviews from the car mags and it's the cheapest in its class (vs. Acura, Lexus, BMW, etc)., that car may continue to bring near-sticker prices for a long time.
Try to sell the car yourself. It's virtually new and should appeal to G buyers at a couple of thousand below what dealers charge, plus still under a huge warranty, so the buyer takes no chances.
Thanks.
hpowders
Executive Summary: M45 Sport is now alone at the top of my Short List.
Caution: Long and rambling post. (No surprise to many, I’m sure!)
Even with another 200+ LB passenger (vs. me alone in my LS - on the same roads at the same speeds just after the test drive), the M45 is noticeably quicker – off the line, 25 – 60, and in highway merge / passing at 60+. Impressive. Very impressive. Lunges forward at WOT, acceleration builds quickly and very smoothly. Felt terrific – and entertaining. Perhaps a couple of hundred “break-in” miles helps free up the V8?
The exhaust does make itself known at WOT above about 3,000 rpm. It is a lovely sound indeed. Not loud. (I would accept a few more db.) It sounds both powerful and expensive. The trans. manumatic mode works flawlessly. Now that I have had an opportunity to play with it some more, I’d say that the ‘rev match on downshifts’ feature does work well. Upshifts and downshifts were both quicker and smoother than in my LS. (And WOT upshifts, at over 3,000 RPM on my LS are pretty darned good!) And much, much better than the manumatic mode in the S4.
(Aside: I also drove another 2005 Audi S4 – just 20 minutes before driving the M45. Partly as a ‘calibration’ run. Partly, I wanted to confirm a few earlier observations from a previous test drive. The acceleration is likely comparable between the S4 w/Tiptronic and the M45 Sport. MSRP on the S4 is near identical as well, with the options I’d likely have to take, as my dealer orders them essentially all the same way except for color. And I’d not want to wait the 10 / 12 weeks to order one. For several reasons.)
Anyway, I confirmed that the M45 Sport ride is an exceptional combination of excellent ride and handling. The ride quality is still quite surprising to me (32 psi all around, verified with the on-board display) given the 19” wheels and aggressive, summer tires. One certainly is made aware of broken pavement and other severe conditions, but it is well muted and all ride motions are very well damped.
The ultimate handling limits are something I would never attempt to explore in any car on public roads. Up to ‘entertaining’ speeds and cornering loads, the M45 in Sport form always felt smooth, steady, controlled and capable – and not working hard at all. Understeer was kept to an acceptable level. Steering feel is a comfortable compromise between feeling the road surface and being well damped. Turn-in response was well balanced and quite responsive. Felt accurate and confidence inspiring at all times.
Although the 2300 RPM at 60 (one reason, clearly, that the EPA highway fuel mileage is not great!) is something that I would have to get used to, the motor is smooth and quiet at any cruising speed I’d likely hold for any period of time. I think this is now a non-issue for me.
The sunroof in full vent position did not make any noise this time – that I noticed. (Traffic on the highway portion of my drive, particularly heavy truck traffic, was much heavier than my first drive.) Perhaps there was a crosswind during my previous drive?
Anyway . . . all other noise was well within acceptable limits. (I have no clue what Edmunds was referring to in their rather odd comparison test.) I typically test drive with the stereo off, to hear everything I can from the road, motor, etc. I can always check the stereo out later, but I expect the standard system is fine for me. I prefer that the exhaust sound nice. And to me, it certainly does. And no mechanical ‘thrash’ from the Internal Combustions going on and all the reciprocating pieces under the hood intrudes. Just one of my ‘things’.
I can see where someone a bit shorter might not appreciate the layout of some of the controls atop the center stack. At 6’-0”, no issue there for me.
I find the interior to be roomy and very comfortable – both (briefly) as a passenger and particularly as a driver. And I find the interior aesthetics quite acceptable. Colors, textures, layout, etc. The driver’s seat is supportive and appears to offer acceptable comfort for longer stints behind the wheel. The interior color on this tester was graphite, with the optional rosewood trim. Exactly as I’d order one. Suits me.
Lest it be lost in all of the other comments: This car is a lot of fun to drive!!!!!!!!
A lot of fun.
I am hoping next time to drive one without the additional 200 LBs of “ballast” (salesperson) but I have enough seat time now that I wouldn’t require that.
This car now supersedes the Jaguar S-Type R at the top of my “put a gun to my head and choose a new car RIGHT NOW” list.
And the MSRP on an 2006 M45 Sport with only Rosewood is something like $7K lower than a 2005 Jaguar S-Type R. The lease rates I have seen for the M appear quite aggressive as well. If I just cannot wait until dealers have a wider selection of M-s in their inventory, lease may be better than buy, in this case. We’ll see.
And yes, the MSRP (and the true transaction cost) on an M45 would be greater than a 2005 Lincoln LS Sport. By quite a lot, I will admit. If only Lincoln would add a 335 HP / 340 TQ V8 option. Etc. If only . . .
And I do not see another 300+ HP / TQ sedan out there at anything below $50K that interests me. Right now. The S4 is fun, but (despite a few points in its favor, like lower RPM at cruise) does not strike me as the equal of the M45 Sport in areas like refinement. Acceleration is likely comparable to the M45, but I do not want (or need) AWD and the extra weight and forward weight distribution the Audi layout brings. The STS V8 does not allow me to “cherry pick” only the options I’d really want (that’s another whole story), so the MSRP of the only one I’d actually consider buying (1SF) is essentially the same as the MSRP of the Jag S-Type R: $58K. (Interesting that the acceleration numbers I have seen for the M45 are actually VERY close to the published numbers for the S-Type R!) A6 4.2 (nice car, w/lovely 4.2L V8, much as in the S4) is too heavy, and thus way too un-quick. (Not slow, just not quick enough for me.) No V8 available from MB or BMW appeals to me right now. Etc.
(Perhaps I need to check out the new Lexus GS 430? Maybe not . . )
There certainly are a few points against the M45.
1 – Likely no significant discount off MSRP (without buying way out of town, possibly) until much more inventory piles up on dealers’ lots.
2 – The highway mileage is likely no better than my 2003 Lincoln LS Sport. (Sigh.) At least with a 20 gallon fuel tank, I’d have additional range.
3 – The scheduled maintenance is not ‘included’ in MSRP. Best guess is that’d total something like $1,000 + / - over my typical ownership duration.
4 – Heated seats seemed a bit slow to warm up. (OK - reaching here . . .)
I will repeat one line from my earlier impressions, as I have essentially confirmed the accuracy.
Summary: Refined. Spirited. Comfortable. Solid. Competent. Fun.
Just my opinion – and I have a LOT of ‘em. . .
- Ray
Always willing to share – opinions, that is . . .
More than fine. There is plenty of travel left in the seat, so you could probably even be 6'6" and still be comfortable.
In fact, as I think I mentioned, after adjusting the driver's seat to my liking, I could even sit behind the driver's seat comfortably, so the back seat legroom is good too.
Regards,
hpowders
Now last night my car came in and I drove it home. As soon as we pulled out of the dealership, I felt every bump and dip in the road. I immediately noticed it, as did my 10 year old son (who was on the test drive with me). I don't remember the demo feeling like that.
Now, the demo had many miles on it, while my new car had only eight. Is it possible for a new car suspension to somehow break in so that bumps will be felt less after a certain amount of miles have been driven (or am I just remembering the test drive badly)? I remember really liking the ride of the demo, yet I don't really love the ride of the car I drove home. I am considering trying to take it back to the dealership (the sooner the better), so I would appreciate any responses.
Thanks
Albert
Some of the early reviews have hinted that the Sport option might be too firm or "sporty" for some luxury car buyers, and with a newly found sporting edge at Nissan/Inifniti I could see them tuning these new Sport Ms quite aggresively.
My next question would if all M45 Sports come with the same brand of tire?
Was the M45 Sport you drove a cold car right off the dealer's lot, if its cold where you are? Freezing temps can have an affect on ride quality especially on sporty cars wearing summer tires. If the dealer had a demo thats been out on test drives all day the tires are going to be "warm" and will ride better in the case of the Sport model. Summer tires hate freezing temps.
Just thinking out loud here, but drive your car over the same route you took on that initial test drive and see what you find, that should be most revealing. That and driving the M35x again.
M
Maybe I just have a bad memory, but I don't remember the demo feeling the way my car did. Could the suspensions be tuned differently from car to car?
Albert
Give the board here a little more time, there will be other ideas. Worst case scenario is that something is defective on your car, but it doesn't sound like that is the case to me.
M
Cars are often shipped with far more than the recommended pressure in the tires to prevent flat-spotting. Supposed to be brought down to spec by the dealer, but. . .
I agree with the poster above. My immediate suspicion / guess is tire pressures set too high. What does the display show? Both Demo M45 Sports I drove were set to 32 psi cold. (Per the display on the dash.)
My reading of the manual suggests that the M’s warning system will notify you of LOW (below 27 psi) tire pressure(s) – but not care if the pressure is too high . . .
I have seen dealerships where every car on the lot is set to (sometimes WAY) higher pressures than recommended by the manufacturer. Right up to the maximum allowable number on the tire. That will result in a dramatically more harsh and brittle feeling ride. 33 is the Infiniti recommendation for the M – on both the 19” on the Sport and the 18” on the non-Sport (page 9-9.
Good luck – and please report your findings? And what are your other impressions – as you will clearly drive more miles than I have been able to drive even in 2 tests.
Thanks,
- Ray
Not an Automotive Engineer, just a “buff” . . .
This is an M45 sport, yes? I assume it comes with UHP summer tires, if the temp was low enough, this phenom (cold tires) could explain this, no?
Thanks
No they do not fold down. There is a small passthrough door, but that is it.
Well, I took the plunge after my '01 LS430 sold this weekend, and put down a deposit on an M35 Sport with tech./journey pckgs.in umbria grey with stone leather. Due to arrive on the truck by the end of the week. I'll post my impressions and will follow others.
What features are those?
Carnaught,
Do you still have an E-Class?
M
M
I replaced my E with an Acura TL (I still have my G35, however). Funny you should mention this as in one of your next posts (#961) you mention the lack of bluetooth on Mercedes. Since I have been putting on high mileage, I wanted to sell the MB when it was more marketable. I also "needed" bluetooth and Nav. and a Japanese car (TL in this case) gave me what I wanted. I must say that the resale and ownership experience of the E Mercedes was great and I will definitely buy another MB in the future. The Benz was rock solid and secure and fun to drive compared to the more hallow light feeling TL.
Not to digress further on this board, I am hoping the Infiniti M successfully is the marriage between the cushy smooth Japanese ride (i.e., Lexus) with the spirited road feel of a German car. My initial impression is that indeed it is.
(BTW, we've at times been adversarial in the past, but it's good to have you back on the "boards"
I plan to try the standard M45. From the Infinity brochure, it looks like the standard model has different seats. Does anyone know if this is correct?
One more question. I own two Mercedes. Have never owned an Infiniti. Mercedes is great about customer satisfaction, including warranty repairs and even out of warranty repairs. What has been your experience with Infiniti? Thanks!
Owning my G35 even though being an early model it had issues (recalls, etc.), the dealer was very accomodating and at least as good as my Mercedes servicing experience. It does of course, as with any car brand, vary with the dealer.
hpowders