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I went to a Honda dealer and they were pretty eager to rip me a new one..
I want to try and hold on but the $565 pyts. + insurance and gas are just too much for me on top of my other bills.
So, I may consider trading the car in eat the 3k or so loss put that on top of a 15-17k car totalling 20k that should reduce my pyt. by at least $100 not counting the savings on maintenance.
That is if I get a great used Honda. Does this make sense or should I still try to hold on to my bimmer. It's at 45k right now and I won't have any warranty after 50k. No more free oil change
Please adivse
Could you give up the cigs, assuming you smoke. Eat PB&J for lunch 4 days a week. Unless you are already living bare bones, you CAN save $100/month just by making a few simple changes. Are you willing is the question.
Selling one car for wholesale to buy another at retail will ultimately eat up any cash flow savings, even though it will alleviate a cash crunch in the short term.
regards,
kyfdx
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-Moo
tidester, host
Seems like you really stretched beyond what you should have, to get the BMW in the first place. But that is historical, and you have to be very careful to make the correct decision now. No need to make your bad situation even worse.
I'd investigate the details of your loan a little bit better. It appears that your balance should be in the 18.7-19K range (based upon stated interest rate, and remaining payments) as opposed to the 23K you reference. If your remaing payments is 36, then your balance is 18.7K. If this is true, then the previous advice to swap out the BMW (cash received pays off loan), and get a new Accord at 300 per month would help your cash flow situation, and avoid the exposure to out of warranty expenditures. Of course getting a Civic or Corolla would help it even more.
The BMW is a fantastic driver, to be sure, but it's also really a rich person's weekend toy. You have to maintain it and that requires a couple of thousand a year once it is out of warranty.(Mercedes is also simmilar)
Oops... wish you had been about 10 minutes earlier with that post tidester.
Jipster, you're so trusting. That's one thing that I really appreciate about you.
Poor Frenchy. I kind of threw up my hands on that situation. I don't think that he's going to be able to do much in his current situation due to the interest rate that he is going to suffer. My guess is at minimum he'll have a rate that is in the high teens.
Good luck out there!
-Moo
Many ways people can save money each month. Also getting a second job a few evenings and/or weekends could put far more than $100/month extra in your pocket. Could even come close to paying for that BMW.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I’ve just tuned back into this forum, so I know I’m a little late, but:
Other than the suggestion to torch your car (which as you know was an effort to throw in a little humor), you have gotten some very good advice for your dilemma. If you don’t mind, I’ll add one more:
‘Slow down; don’t allow one bad decision to chase you into another’.
Following this advice over the years has saved my bacon more than once. Thinking that becoming a “payment-buyer” will save the day is being chased into another bad decision.
For your sake, don’t do it. Follow the advice that has already been given to you
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This is not meant to be unkind, but consider it as advice from several folks who have made the decision that you're considering making, and have found out the hard way that it was a bad idea.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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And from all of us in the business who've seen these situations before as well.
It doesn't make sense financially to get into a different loan even onsomething cheaper, when you're upside down on the current one.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'd personally consider it to be too close to call with that factored in.
Yet I would still probably keep the lease you have, since with your credit score, which is worse than mine(~620 - eek!) - you'll be lucky to get 15%. No joke. My credit union gave me the lowest rate around and for me it was 11.5%. Interest rates have risen a lot and unless you have a 700+ score, you're toast on any new loan.
The only other option would be to get a 3-4 year lease on one of those loss-leader promotions($209 a month or simmilar) and pay the loan difference you are out in cash.(probably $4K by the looks of it, or about $100 a month).
http://automobiles.honda.com/tools/current_offers.asp?Function=new
Note the $199 a month/36 month Accord LX offer.
Almost every manufacturer has soetihng like this, though Honda and VW tend to be the best for the money. It's not a BMW, but it might be something to consider.
He/She has a 325Ci not a 7 series. I really doubt they are going to spend anywhere close to 1,200 dollars in the first year out of warranty.
A good indie shop will do oil changes on the BMW for 75 dollars or so using the right kind of synthetic oil and those oil changes will last between 7,500 and 12,000 miles.
The same indie shop should do the Inspection 1 service for 300 dollars maybe a little more.
At this point I can no longer afford to pay my cc bills, therefore I was thinking of lowering my highest expense which is the bmw.
My thinking is that if I can at least lower my highest expense I could concentrate on paying off my cc.
I don't have practically any room to play with because of my 561 FICO score. I guess the stearlership would sell me a 15k car + the upside down and interest in the teens. Maybe somehow that will work out still lower than my $565 pyts. Not counting the gas expense and any maintenance associated with a BMW... ( I only have 5k left on the warranty!)
Would it hurt if I went to a dealership and have them run the numbers?
Also I am in the process of finding a 2nd job but even with the additional income, due to my other expenses I would still be struggling with my $565 pyts.
BTW my 3 series is the lowest to model but a break job is still $500 don't even want to know what a tune up will run me..
Thx for the suggestion though
My husband is completely uneducated about car buying (if he was in charge of the negotiations, we'd probably end up buying cupholder insurance, a 20 year warrantee, deluxe turn signals..), but I'm trying to learn. The only problem is that while I'm smart, I'm also a big wimp and don't deal well with pressure. Hopefully I'll get honest dealers, but we won't be sure till we get there. I just wondered if anyone had any advice for first time (wimpy and terrified) buyers. What strength I lack I am trying to make up for in knowledge.
Make sure with your initial email that you come across as a serious buyer that is ready to buy within a week or less if the deal is right. Try to nail down specifically what you want before hand.
When discussing the dollars make sure the sales person give you final out the door numbers that include everything like tax, tag, fees, etc. Once you've agreed on the final price all that's left is the test drive and sign the papers.
I'm sure others here will have some good advice as well. Good luck to you and let us know how you make out.
For $12K your not going to get a whole lot in the area of a new car. Not unless you are willing to put several thousand down on a car. If you want to keep your downpayment low I would strongly suggest a used car of one or two years old. You will get a lot more for the money.
(I know this isn't ideal, but we live on an E-2's salary)
Well hopefully you won't be on an E-2's salary for long. Most E-2's get promoted quickly.
so I think it might be inadvisable to buy one new unless I absolutely had to (is it very easy to learn? )
That depends on the person, I learned relatively quickly but I have seen others take forever to get it right.
The only problem is that while I'm smart, I'm also a big wimp and don't deal well with pressure.
Repeat after me, "NO!". Thats all you have to say when they offer you something you don't want or if you feel pressured. Know what you want and are willing to pay for before walking into a dealership. Say no to anything beyond that. Trust me after the first "NO" the next one comes easy.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It helps a lot to know exactly what you plan to do when you visit the car dealer.
If you are just looking and are not ready to buy, then don't buy a car that day.
If you are ready to buy, then decide exactly what you want and exactly what you are willing to pay and don't deviate from your plan.
"cupholder insurance", "deluxe turn signals" - I like your sense of humor!
I do think you have to look elsewhere for $$$ other than trading out of the BMW. You're going to be hard pressed to find a lending institution to offer you a loan with a bad FICO, as well as "over-loaning" money on a chepaer car (rolling over the negative equity). If they do give you a loan for a cheaper vehicle (including the negative equity for the BMW), the interest rate is going to be so high, I don't think you're going to save yourself anything.
Not meaning to be dismal, but this is a situation where you're going to have to get relief from the most viable sources (that is, your ex GF). Whether she's capable of paying or not, is not the issue. It's whether you can prove the CC bills, and the car, are her responsibility.
If the CC bills and car are in her name, you shouldn't have an issue. You just walk away from them. Tell any creditors that your ex no longer lives at your address. If they're all in both of your names (bad move.....were you the co-signer?), then you split the liability. If they're all in your name (a worse move), you're screwed as they'll be looked at as gifts, from you to her. Best thing to do in the last scenario is to tough it out....get a 2nd job.
Call all of your creditors. Tell them what's happening. More importantly, give them a reasonable time frame and monthly amount you're able to make. There's probably a non-profit debt relief/counseling agency in your 'burg (United Way, perhaps?). Contact them. Stay away from those places that offer bill consolidation that advertise in the media.
Chin up....nothing is permanent. You just have to tough this out and methodically and thoroughly attack this step by step. Keep hunkered down and work at this until you see a light at the end of the tunnel. Can't stress this enough, contact all the creditors and let them know what's going on.
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of room to play with on a Yaris. MSRP is probably close to what you'll pay (give or take a could hundred, if that.
THe Honda Fit is the same way. A Mazda 3 might be something you want to look at.
Hyundais have poor resale, but if you plan on driving the wheels off of one, they are very reliable cars with a great warranty. You can probably pick up a base Elantra (actually, they're nicely equipped) or Accent might be something to look at, too.
You can always decline any extended warranties, add-ons, etc.
Just do a little bit of research and determine what you're willing to pay for the cars in question. Don't be afraid to walk away from any deal you aren't comfortable with. Stay away from talking about payments. Focus on the purchase price of the car. Taxes won't change, but fees will. Be cognizant of what the dealership charges for documentation fees (no more than $100 is acceptable....less is better).
Good luck and let us know if we can be of further help.
Best thing to do is to make an OTD (out the door) offer. That includes everything....the price of the car, all taxes, fees, license and registration. The taxes on non-negotiable, as are the registration and license fees. Doc fees are pure profit, though.
My last purchase they had a 399 doc fee, which they wouldn't budge on for some reason, but they agreed to lower the price of the car by that same amount to be competitive on an OTD comparison.
I didn't care how they showed it on the contract, just so the total worked out correctly.
That might be a comment you make deep into negotiations and let's say you are 200 more than your cap. If you just can't get down to where you need to be (and you recognize you have no-deal because of it), then you say as you stand up to shake his hand and walk out.... "thanks, but it doesn't appear I can buy this car because it's over my cap". I can only spend 17K in total."
However, it could be that the dealer would give you a better interest rate for a loan, so the payment for the 17,200 loan would be less than the payment for your banks 17,000 loan....in which case you'd buy.
This gives them 2 ways to save the deal, just lower the price by 200...or lower what you know your payment will be via an interest rate reduction.
I will however, follow your advice and think through and evaluate my situation before I make any hasty decisions.
You should say, "I am offering $16500 (or whatever amount you want to pay) out-the-door for this car. Do you accept my offer?"
Don't be afraid to walk away if they don't want to meet, or at the very least, come near, your offer.
It's your money. You control everything.
The price of a new car isn't the selling price..
Depreciation
Financing
Maintenance
Fuel
Insurance
The Yaris might cost a little more in the financing department, but will probably be less in at least 3 of the other 4 variables.
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http://www.nfcc.org/
Research any of these agencies thoroughly, though. Some will take advantage of your situation and may make matters worse. You want the ones who do debt counseling as a non-profit service to the community and you.
Your ex has no motivation to stick to any agreement. You can pursue it, though. For now, take car of the most immediate issues.
Best of luck. As I said, you'll eventually find the light at the end of the tunnel no matter how desperate things seem right now, nor how long it takes.
Let us know how things go.
You should say, "I am offering $16500 (or whatever amount you want to pay) out-the-door for this car. Do you accept my offer?"
This is bad advice. By playing hide-and-seek with the information, you limit the car dealer's ability to find alternative solutions to your situation that you might not be aware of. Also, part of the art of negotiation is building rapport with the person that you are negotiating with. By taking a hard-nosed approach like the one above, you alienate your salesperson, his manager, and anyone else that might be willing to entertain your offer if you presented it with a more amicable and flexible approach. You (and everyone else) need to remember that both you and the dealer have the same goal--for you to drive home in a car. The dealer would be foolish to ignore your budget or credit concerns because by addressing them, he is more likely to close a sale--but he can't do this if he doesn't know that the problem exists in the first place.
Not only are you smart (by seeking advice) but you have a good sense of humour. And your husband certainly was smart enough to marry you.
OK...my two cents. Definitely decide what car (you probably should be flexible about color) you're going to buy before going to any dealer. Then look up on Edmunds the INVOICE price of the car you want.
That's the basic price you should pay...no more...but maybe less if there are any rebates or dealer incentives.
And to that basic invoice price you add so called "doc fees"...but bear in mind that several states do not allow the dealer to charge any more than $50 for doc fees...e.g., in NY it's set at $49. The rest... tags and sales tax are nonnegotiable as they are mandated by the state.
BTW, if you buy a Hyundai(in addition to other rebates) there is a $500 military rebate...you can check it out on Edmunds. And it might not hurt for your husband to wear his uniform when you go to any dealer.
And best to your spouse from this (laugh) old Korean war vet who also has a ranger grandson fighting in Sammara.
No one is hiding anything. Nothing hard nosed about it, either. Dealer can ignore her offer if he wants. It's his/her choice.
Build all the rapport you want. The key here is hitting jj's number.
What bobst has done is make it as easy as possible, for both the dealer and the buyer.
If you are inexperienced in negotiating, don't worry about it. Only people who are bound and determined to negotiate the salesperson out of any commission at all have to worry about their negotiation skills. For any average consumer, a couple pieces of information and a good attitude (not the NO! approach mentioned above) will get you a good deal. Here's the best way to go about it.
First, there are several models of new car that you can get in the price range you are looking for. The only question is whether you will be satisfied with a sub-compact car (that's about all your going to get on the new side for 12k). Regardless, once you figure out what kind of car you want, do your "up close and personal" research when the dealership is closed. Go look at the vehicle. In fact, look at a lot of vehicles. Narrow your choices down to two or three. Write down the year, make, model, equipment, and VIN #. Look up the invoice price online. Make sure that you enter the information accurately (an accurate invoice price is imperitive). Once you have this info and are ready to buy, head to the dealership. Try to find a multi-dealership organization where you can test drive all your choices in one visit. If you like the drive and would like to buy the vehicle, tell your salesperson you want to buy TODAY (your price offer will be taken much more seriously if you commit to purchasing then and there). Ask the salesperson to see the factory invoice. If they won't let you, then go somewhere else. If they do, then make sure it matches the invoice price you looked up earlier and offer $500 over invoice. Now, this is the part where people start screaming at me..."$500 over invoice!!! Crook!! You could get another seventy five bucks off that if you just acted like a belligerant idiot! Blah, blah, blah." The bottom line is that $500 over invoice is an attainable offer on nearly any car, it saves you thousands, and it allows the dealer to make an APPROPRIATE profit margin. Stick firm to your offer, and after a couple of visits to the manager's office, the salesperson will tell you congratulations.
Now, off to the F&I office. Again, contrary to popular belief, it is better to get your financing at the dealership. They have the power to negotiate rates with their banks that you do not. They also have the power to hold points on your loan and sign you up at a higher interest rate than what you were actually approved for. So, respectfully ask to see the bank approval (a printout that the Finance Manager will have if he has already submitted your loan) or a current rate sheet for that bank and a copy of your credit report (the rate sheet will outline what rate a person of your score qualifies for). As long as they match, then you should take the financing they offer you. When the Finance Manager starts pitching you insurances and warranties, be respectful and listen. He might offer you something that would legitemately help you that you didn't even know existed. Ask questions--lots of questions--no matter how dumb they seem to you. Remember, unless the paperwork process is recorded, the Finance Manager can SAY anything he wants. That's not to imply that he will lie to you, but why take chances. If you find yourself wanting to buy some of the products (warranties, gap insurance, maintenence etc) then ask to read the printed literature (brochures etc.)on that product. The printed brochures must adhere to advertising guidelines so they can't be "spun" to sound better than they are or omit potentially negative clauses. My advice on products is this...Extended warranties are great if they are through the manufacturer, if they are fully comprehensive, and if you get a good price ($1000-$1500 is reasonable for most cars, above that and they are most likely trying to gouge you.) Gap insurance should be a must for anyone buying with no money down (don't pay more than $500 for this). Other than those, you need to make a case by case judgement.
Finally, just remember that an informed, respectful, pleasent customer will get just about anything they ask if they are firm and reasonable. A belligerant, arrogant, condescending customer will get shipped on their way unless the dealer is making a ton of profit--because they will need to be paid a lot to deal with someone who displays that kind of attitude in the future when they need service work or other post-sale help. Also remember that if you get a vehicle you love, at a price you can afford, with service that makes you feel valued, then you got a great deal--regardless of how much profit the dealer made.
Not really my goal may be to drive home in a new car but the dealers goal is to make the most money he can. (not that there is anything wrong with that :shades: )
I am sorry but I have never had a dealer come up with a new idea or offer that was in my best interest. I think the best advice you can give anyone is to be well prepared and know exactly what you want. Bobst's method is pretty simple and easy if someone does not want to play the game. I agree you should always be polite. I never trust anyone, who gets paid based on how much profit they make off me, to give me advise. Education is the key. Oh and the reason they have been selling cars like this for the last 50 years is because it is profitable for the dealers. As soon as it isn't they will come up with another formula.
True....lots of things can be done to affect the payment. jj isn't a payment buyer. She's got $12K (she's hoping for less). That's her budget. She should only be concerned with the bottom line price of the car (including fees). I'd recommend that method to any car buyer. Payments will firgure out to be what they'll be based on the bottom line price. Her expectations don't seem to be unreasonable. She's looking for an entry level car. Her price point is doable. She should only be looking at the "bottom line" cost.
While it's not easy to find a car at that price, it can be done. Some dealership, somewhere is going to have to make a skinny deal to get her business. Some salesperson, somewhere, is going to have to settle for a "mini" to make the sale.
F&I is a profit center for the dealership. We know that dealerships get "kickbacks" from the lending institutions for their business. We also know that they can and do mark up the interest rates. Personally, I recommend anyone buying a car, who is financing, to get a rate quote from their credit union, or their bank...and then ask the dealership to beat it. Sometimes they can...sometimes they can't.
If one dealership can't make the deal for jj's budget....then it behooves her to find a dealership that will. She may find one that will, or she may not. Let's see if she can for the time being, though. If she can't, we'll cross the bridge when we get there.
IMO, this “building rapport” thing is way over done. When you go to buy a car, you're looking for a good price from a respectable dealership that’s all and it shouldn’t take more than 30 minutes (there I go again with that time limit). Just be honest with the customer and let them know if their offer is acceptable, if not let the customer go to your competitor.
No hard feelings, it’s a business thing not a social event.
The simpler the buyer keeps it the better it is for them.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Actually, I did see an ad the other day for a new AT Focus ('07), MSRP in the 15s, selling for IIRC ~12K. A bit more substantial car than an Aveo at least.
But, if you don't mind something 1-2 years old, you can get a bigger/nicer/etc. car, especially if yo go with a domestic (Impala even). Just a whole lot more choices, and not that hard to find something respectable, still under warranty, in the 10K range.
Finally, keep in mind the sticker price isn't selling price for many cars, such as the Focus. The Yaris and Fit? Probably selling at or close to it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I personally prefer to keep the TT&L (tax, title and license) costs separate when I'm comparing quotes from the dealers. The dealers can tell you what these TT&L will be or you can check with your county DMV. I then contact several of the lowest bidders to make sure that I have their best offer. Go with the lowest bidder or, in case of a tie, see if one of the dealers will add mud flaps or other accessories.
When completing the transaction at the dealership you'll have to undergo the process with the financial salesperson who will try to sell you extended warranties etc. If you are not interested then just say NO.
If you decide to go the used car route then I suggest reading the section about that process in carbuyingtips.com.
I hope that some of these thoughts are helpful for you. My wife of 43 years claims that in financial transactions, a man still gets a better deal or is taken more seriously than a woman, so it might be advisable to get your husband to take the lead and to conference together when making decisions at the dealership.
Good luck with the process. It is not as difficult as it seems, and you should end up with a good vehicle. Don't make it a source of frustration for you and your husband. Along with the great majority of citizens, we appreciate the efforts of you and your military husband. God bless you. Ralph
Please don’t try to play that pity game. You chose your profession just like the rest of us chose ours. When I buy a car I’m trying to ensure I have enough left for the other things I want/need in life.
Now, you are going to sit down at a table and tell that salesperson that even though you like the merchandise, and he's done a good job helping you, and the price is plainly posted, you don't want to pay that price.
I never went to dealership for help. When I go there it is to buy a car. If you’re so concerned with helping me, you’ll agree to my price (which has always been fair and doable) and not waste my time.
But, if you are going to ask a person to please take home a smaller paycheck so that you can pay 12 fewer dollars a month for your car, don't you think it would be respectful and polite to build a little rapport with them first?
I’ve already answered that pity-question. Now, about that $12 a month; that’s the money I’m going to use for the other things I want/need in life and you’re not going to get it. I’ve always been polite when I buy a car and you already know what my opinion is regarding rapport (post 1753).
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What's that mean over the cost of a typical loan length...
48 mos X $12=$576
60 mos X $12=$720
72 (God forbid someone goes for that) X $12=$864
That's not pocket change. I can think of a lot of things I could use that ~$600-~$900 for.
Peyton, we didn't make the rules. We've got a wealth of information at our fingertips. You can't hold it against us for accessing it. I've suspected for awhile that at least the domestic manufacturers are throwing more money the dealer's way to move their iron that we didn't see. Now, you've confirmed it.
In all frankness, it's not the consumers concern how much a dealership or sales person may/may not make. We're just utilizing the information available to us.
Some, like jj, came here for help in understanding the process. We're giving it. We're not telling her to take food out of your mouth. We're just advising her how to get a good deal and what to look for. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's what these forums are for.
Just curious, how long have you been a car sales person? What brand to you represent?